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Steel
Banned
(10-13-2017, 03:10 AM)

And lastly, you have to earn the right to be able to upgrade Star Cards and unlock most Weapons. You can only upgrade or unlock them if you have reached a high enough rank, which is determined by playing the game.

So you have grind crates and exp to upgrade stuff. That's lovely.
almostjuliuscaesar
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:18 AM)
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Basically rent it for the campaign and send it right back after. Got it.
Apeboy
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:28 AM)
So, let me get his straight. People are cancelling preorders because purchasing RNG loot boxes that may contain buffs make it unfair, yet preorders contain known bonuses that boost performance as soon as the game goes live. During the beta I bought 2-3 crates every few rounds, not sure if credits will be toned down at release but as it stands now they arenít that hard to come by.

Can we now expand P2W to include preorder 2 win?
HariKari
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:30 AM)
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No talk of getting rid of the OP cards, just gating them behind a very, very quickly moving account level.

Anything that's a straight upgrade to damage or health should be thrown in the trash. A lot of the Starfighter cards are like that. Cards should give you unique options, not straight auto pick buffs.

Originally Posted by Apeboy

So, let me get his straight. People are cancelling preorders because purchasing RNG loot boxes that may contain buffs make it unfair, yet preorders contain known bonuses that boost performance as soon as the game goes live. During the beta I bought 2-3 crates every few rounds, not sure if credits will be toned down at release but as it stands now they aren’t that hard to come by.

Crates cost 1,100 and a round gives 180 credits on a win at best. You are lying.
Apeboy
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:37 AM)

Originally Posted by HariKari

Crates cost 1,100 and a round gives 180 credits on a win at best. You are lying.

No, Iím not. In my 2-3 days of playing the beta I crafted 3-4 attachments for assault and specialist weapons. Received one or two gold hero cards, silver star fighter cards and a handful of star cards for ground combat. At no time did I feel crates/rewards were difficult to get.

Before you start vomiting up words like lying you should consider your experience is not the only experience.
Spartancarver
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:38 AM)

Originally Posted by HariKari

Crates cost 1,100 and a round gives 180 credits on a win at best. You are lying.

I got 270 credits after a few rounds.

Also there were a ton of challenges that awarded 100-300 credits each.

All in all I think I opened at least 20 crates during the beta, counting the free daily crates. More importantly, I had a ton of fun playing the game itself.
BLAUcopter
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by almostjuliuscaesar

Basically rent it for the campaign and send it right back after. Got it.

If its anything like the BF1 campaign prepare to be super disappointed.
HariKari
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Apeboy

No, Iím not. In my 2-3 days of playing the beta I crafted 3-4 attachments for assault and specialist weapons. Received one or two gold hero cards, silver star fighter cards and a handful of star cards for ground combat. At no time did I feel crates/rewards were difficult to get.

Before you start vomiting up words like lying you should consider your experience is not the only experience.

You were likely swimming in the initial free crates for the challenges and then completing the other ones, plus the daily crate. Once those are done, the grind becomes very obvious. You are looking at 6 full rounds to get one in a best case scenario. The beta had a mere fraction of the available cards and 'loot' available in the full game and yet it still managed to be extremely obnoxious if you wanted a specific card or attachment. It won't be better once the system is widened to include everything.
ZeroGravity
Member
(10-13-2017, 05:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Steel

So you have grind crates and exp to upgrade stuff. That's lovely.

Oh no, you have to play the video game!
MMarston
Was getting caught part of your plan?
(10-13-2017, 05:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Eggbok

I hope reviewers tear this game apart

Shadow of War is still going strong despite all the vitrol towards WB's shenanigans.


I doubt it'll make much of a difference unless EA decides to go neck deep into the shitpit with this stuff.
Tapejara
Member
(10-13-2017, 06:56 AM)
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While I appreciate the effort to clarify how the system works, DICE is ultimately still locking gameplay-affecting items behind lootboxes. One player may not be able to unlock and equip the best cards right off the bat, but those who invest money into the system are still going to be able to gain an advantage, however slight it may be. And what's worse, if I put money into that system, there's no guarantee I'd even get the same cards. That just doesn't sit right with me. While I understand we're just over a month from launch and it's likely unfeasible for DICE to upend their entire progression system, I really wish these boxes had just been cosmetic only.

For now, unless I absolutely must play the campaign, I'll probably be cancelling my pre-order. I'll hold off for now in hopes they address this further/put out another beta to show the changes, but at this point I feel like I should wait for a significant discount.
HotHamBoy
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Apeboy

So, let me get his straight. People are cancelling preorders because purchasing RNG loot boxes that may contain buffs make it unfair, yet preorders contain known bonuses that boost performance as soon as the game goes live. During the beta I bought 2-3 crates every few rounds, not sure if credits will be toned down at release but as it stands now they arenít that hard to come by.

Can we now expand P2W to include preorder 2 win?

Are you serious? You're comparing a small *potential* advantage that everyone who pre-orders is guaranteed to get (and you can usually buy seperately) to a totally random lottery that the entire progression system is based around?

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity

Oh no, you have to play the video game!

You have to play against people willing to pay a lot more than you for a clear advantage.

This isn't a F2P game where P2W may be a given aspect of the model because the game is FREE.
Van Bur3n
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by almostjuliuscaesar

Basically rent it for the campaign and send it right back after. Got it.

I'm not sure if its worth it for even that.
HotHamBoy
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:04 AM)
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The playerbase will be dead by February.
BrassDragon
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:10 AM)
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Phew, I thought they were going for my wallet but it turns out they only have my convenience and balanced game experience at heart.
Norse
(10-13-2017, 07:12 AM)
Why not just have people that pay for their stuff use different servers than those that earn them by playing?
Horp
(10-13-2017, 07:17 AM)
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Shitty respons. Shitty loot boxes. Pass for me.
blly155
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:18 AM)
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Still not buying it. Go chase yourself DICE. The last good game by them was BF4. I'm done with them.
Bombless
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:20 AM)
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And lastly, you have to earn the right to be able to upgrade Star Cards and unlock most Weapons. You can only upgrade or unlock them if you have reached a high enough rank, which is determined by playing the game.

This doesn't make any sense.

OKay, you need a certain player level to upgrade a star card to top level. What happens if you get it from a loot box? You can't equip it until you're level XXX?
Calm Mind
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:21 AM)
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I trust DICE about as much as I do EA.
Juan29.zapata
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:25 AM)
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The beta soured me on the game heavily. It's not just because of the lootboxes but how the game felt, for some reasons. I didn't like the vibe of it. The previous one was better, I felt.

Anyway, I can't blame them for going with the lootcrates, at least the maps and modes that come later are free, unlike Battlefield 1 where you can barely get any match in the new maps. It's BS, I'm never paying for a season pass ever again after that shit. Waste of 50$.
excaliburps
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by MMarston

Shadow of War is still going strong despite all the vitrol towards WB's shenanigans.


I doubt it'll make much of a difference unless EA decides to go neck deep into the shitpit with this stuff.

People on GAF forget that Joe Gamer will most likely just avoid spending the crates and just play the game. Sure, they might notice it, but not care enough to be in outrage since they won't be touching it at all.

Or

Some might buy one here or there which is what publishers count on.

Personally, as long as the core gameplay is fun, I'm fine. EA explained the progression, which is good.

I mean, Battlefield had shortcut packs for sale, and I never touched those, but some might, and I don't care if they did. As long as super cool weapon #43 isn't gated by loot crates and such, I'm good; and with what EA has said, top-tier stuff can only be obtained by playing.

Call of Duty has been more guilty of this "pay-to-win" issue. I mean, Black Ops 3 got ruined with all the Supply Drop-exclusive weapons.
Froxenblade
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 07:32 AM)
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This sounds like some scrambling to save face before release. You can bet that if somehow no one called EA on their bullshit, they would have left in the most egregious crate system they could come up with. That being said, this doesn't sound as bad as it did before. My problem is still this idea of spending real money on crates of random stuff I can't see ahead of time, and some of which is consumable. I don't mind cosmetic microtransactions, but I want to see what I'm buying first. It doesn't sit well with me to spend real money on stuff that is single use, and a collection of other random stuff that most likely I don't want or will never use. There is a level of cynicism in this type of practice that I just can't get behind. There's this constant sense that we, as game enthusiasts, are being pushed further and further to the edge to see just how far this industry can go before it becomes completely volatile and unsustainable.
TatteredHat
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:40 AM)
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Nah, it's still shit.

No doubt they're expecting the playerbase to go "oh well that's fine then" by backpedaling a bit on this, though.
The Faceless Master
(10-13-2017, 07:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bombless

This doesn't make any sense.

OKay, you need a certain player level to upgrade a star card to top level. What happens if you get it from a loot box? You can't equip it until you're level XXX?

sounds about right.
jabuseika
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:50 AM)
It's not about the loot crates, it's in the way the cards affect the gameplay. It's a terrible progression system. Damage, health, weapon speed, special abilities, and weapon add-ons locked away behind a randomizer. When you used to be able to select all that stuff from the beginning.
mikelarry
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 08:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Marcel

People will fall for it. Star Wars is massively popular across all age groups with expendable income so they will just lap up whatever and spend money on the video game of the franchise they like, especially for those hero cards or whatever so they can play as their favorite characters.

Exactly this, just reading a few replies and ppl are like "oh its not so shitty so.... Or some gamers blew this out of proportion" and im like whaaaat they are spining it to make you feel its less shitty.
Dehnus
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:23 AM)

Originally Posted by digitalrelic

Fuck you I got mine.

Ftfy.
Daffy Duck
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Audioboxer

Don't miss out the good part



Short on time

Why should people short on time be able to bypass things?
MilkyJoe
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Why should people short on time be able to bypass things?

They shouldn't, but they also shouldn't be dumped in matches with people that far out-rank them, just to get murdered over and over because their low level pop guns are not making a dent.
Daffy Duck
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by MilkyJoe

They shouldn't, but they also shouldn't be dumped in matches with people that far out-rank them, just to get murdered over and over because their low level pop guns are not making a dent.

Doesnít matchmaking put them mostly with low level players?
Lucifon
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 08:43 AM)
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I don't understand the final bit -

You can only upgrade or unlock them if you have reached a high enough rank, which is determined by playing the game.

Don't you have to get star cards to increase your rank in the first place? Pretty sure that was one of the major complaints from the beta, a stupid idea.
Spukc
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by WickedLaharl

still sounds like a shit system

Ayyyy
MilkyJoe
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Doesnít matchmaking put them mostly with low level players?

Mostly is not good enough, all or nothing or you're just giving some a clear advantage. I've unloaded on someone's head with an E11 only for them to turn and one shot me, that's only fun for one person there.

To be honest, I'm not even bothering with the multiplayer this time, because of that and this time it is clearly going to be worse.
NullPointer
#INTESTINAL
(10-13-2017, 08:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by excaliburps

People on GAF forget that Joe Gamer will most likely just avoid spending the crates and just play the game. Sure, they might notice it, but not care enough to be in outrage since they won't be touching it at all.

Or

Some might buy one here or there which is what publishers count on.

The publishers count on a certain percentage of players to spend a lot.

Otherwise there wouldn't be an RNG component to the purchases.
Mr_Moogle
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alexander DeLarge

There's so much to work with cosmetically in Star Wars. They fucked up going this route.

Those cosmetic options people are hoping for have to be green lit by Disney first. If Disney are anything like LucasArts used to be, they will be insanely protective of the Star Wars brand and won't allow the developers autonomy to include these sorts of cosmetic features.

I have a friend who worked on the Force Unleashed a few years back and he said there we're all sorts of things they wanted to include in the game that LucasArts rejected. It sounded like they we're really treading on egg shells the whole time.
R aka Bon
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:08 PM)
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I will wait for a deep sale or not buy it at all, I loved the beta and I dont mind the cosmetic crates, but have a big problem with the whole mp being filled with mc that also affect gameplay, unless they of course do something about it.
newtypepilot
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:12 PM)
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"guys, it's totally not pay to win! Kappa"
chronic_archaic
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:17 PM)
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It's similar to MWR's system but I don't know if loot locked guns or loot locked buffs are worse. At least the first one is mostly cosmetic since the stock weapons are never worse than the obtainable ones.
KageMaru
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:22 PM)
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They need to get rid of buffs, guns earned in crates, and keep it to just visual altering items. The fact that you need to grind to a level and grind to earn/build a gun from scrap doesn't make this a balanced system.
Audioboxer
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Why should people short on time be able to bypass things?

It's just a "politically correct" way of saying "people with expendable cash can pay to get ahead of the peasants quicker". You don't be that blatant in your PR or the outrage you have now would reach nuclear levels.

The single 6 child rearing dad working 2 jobs trope is mostly just the best way marketing/PR of the games has attempted to sell "paid booster packs for people with less time". Gamers know its paid booster packs for whales and those addicted to having the competitive edge hour 1 over their fellow gamers. The annoyance comes at games that are blatant around that and affect gameplay balance to try and pressure people into spending not to "get left behind" hour 1.

Somewhat getting left behind used to be a consequence of genuinely not playing the game for a month or two, or your skills getting rusty. It's fast borrowing from the F2P industry of if you don't constantly open your wallet you'll never stay fairly high up the competitive ladder. MP games of skill have the best communities when that skill is around gameplay, learning and dedication. Not simply who can hand over the most of their wages per month, or their parents wages.
Eidan
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:24 PM)
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Itís mind boggling that there are so many people who are not only going to support a game like this, but seemingly ENJOY this type of bullshit progression system. So many pushovers.
Boss X
Banned
(10-13-2017, 02:27 PM)
The same people not buying this game better not be buying Forza 7, NBA 2K18 or Shadow of War. Just saying because those all have loot boxes.
Pizza
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:30 PM)
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I played the beta for maaaaaybe six hours total. I did most all the challenges and I was able to upgrade a fun and get four loot boxes. I probably could have got an additional upgrade or box near the end but I didn't bother to try.

Idk, I limit myself to one game with any sort of dlc every now and again. If it's not something I absolutely want to play at launch, I'll wait for the $40 complete version of the game. I like booster packs when I used to play tcg games, and loot boxes are essentially that in my head. I don't buy them constantly, but if I'm bored or feeling lucky I toss a few dollars that way.

I still waaaaay prefer the option of sometimes opening boxes to mandatory paywalls that hide substantial amounts of content and fracture the player base. I dropped games I really liked because I fell off for a few months and came back staring a $30 worth of content I /needed/ in the face.

Also, if DICE isnt straight up lying, I like their implementation. I loved the multiplayer of BF2015 and inferno squad sold me on bf2, so I'm still excited to try it out.

I can't say I ever want to go back to the "pay for maps or else you can't play" model of last gen.
Eidan
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Boss X

The same people not buying this game better not be buying Forza 7, NBA 2K18 or Shadow of War. Just saying because those all have loot boxes.

I wonít be buying any of them.
Sanke__
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by BLAUcopter

If its anything like the BF1 campaign prepare to be super disappointed.

Like SUPER disappointed
SG-17
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by BLAUcopter

If its anything like the BF1 campaign prepare to be super disappointed.

Originally Posted by Sanke__

Like SUPER disappointed

Why would it be? DICE isn't making the campaign. Motive, a new studio helmed by Jade Raymond, is making it.
Apeboy
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:52 PM)

Originally Posted by HotHamBoy

Are you serious? You're comparing a small *potential* advantage that everyone who pre-orders is guaranteed to get (and you can usually buy seperately) to a totally random lottery that the entire progression system is based around

What Iím saying is all these people who preordered the game had no issue with ďbuyingĒ a loot box with known unfair advantage perks by just preordering. Seems a bit disingenuous.

Iím also saying that all this outrage has gotten to Monty Python skit levels. Buy the game or donít.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
(10-13-2017, 02:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by SG-17

Why would it be? DICE isn't making the campaign. Motive, a new studio helmed by Jade Raymond, is making it.

I am prepared to be pleasantly surprised!
Savitar
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:59 PM)
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Uh huh, uh huh, okay that's nice. *looks at vids of players who have been playing and spoke about it*

ITS SHIT.

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