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Joey Ravn
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dusk Golem

For the record, people can feel as they do but the JonTron stuff is way, way, waaay blown out of proportion. The devs minimized his role a lot so he literally only has one line in the whole game that's missable. He also gets no money from sold copies of the game anyways, so buying it does not support him.

I think it's a pretty clear-cut issue. The guy has said some despicable things. The devs had the option of removing him from their game and distancing themselves from what he represents. They didn't. Even minimizing his role in the game to a single line that can be easily missed is not enough.

You are either giving him a pass or you're not. And the devs of that game are giving him a pass, so they are not having my money :)
BernardoOne
For you.
(10-13-2017, 12:03 AM)
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If you want a good game, then go for A Hat in Time. Modding support is also coming pretty soon so you'll have people making endless content for it.
AlexFlame116
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:04 AM)
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For now, Yooka Laylee. It may be the lesser of the two but I feel more comfortable buying that one.

Plus it's getting a Switch version (someday).
Kudo
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

If you want a good game, then go for A Hat in Time. Modding support is also coming pretty soon so you'll have people making endless content for it.

This, there's already few Hat mods up in the beta, but can't wait for what people cook up once the support is properly released.
Looking forward to some insanely hard levels.
Lakershead22
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Santiako

Hat is probably the better game, but I'd buy the one that had the balls to remove JonTron.

I'm going with this answer as my response.
BernardoOne
For you.
(10-13-2017, 12:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mael

Even without the whole Jontron stuffs, the way they teased for a WiiU version to finally run with the money without a version to show for it should be enough to put a big warning on the project.

Jesus fucking christ are WiiU owners still on with this fucking shit?
They didn't announce or confirm a Wii U version even fucking once and the owners of the dead console are still holding a grudge? There are actual goddamn projects out there that actually promised Wii U versions, that actually had it as a stretch goal. Hat in Time did none of that.
Valen
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:09 AM)

Originally Posted by Dusk Golem

For the record, people can feel as they do but the JonTron stuff is way, way, waaay blown out of proportion. The devs minimized his role a lot so he literally only has one line in the whole game that's missable. He also gets no money from sold copies of the game anyways, so buying it does not support him.

That's where you're wrong. It does support him. Support does not have to come in the form of money.

Anyone who continues to give work to this asshole after the things he said is helping establish the precedent that racism has no consequences. Leaving him in the game validates him. It gives him publicity. It risks exposing more kids to this asshole and his beliefs, kids who will grow up to be the next generation of Neo-Nazis.

Even after his supposed "apology" (which wasn't an apology at all - he actually doubled down on white supremacy) his supporters still continue spreading all the stupid (and utterly false) claims he made. From a review of AHIT on Steam:


I worked on A Hat in Time, but I'm going to go with the game that isn't contributing to a culture that wants me dead.
ramoisdead
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dusk Golem

For the record, people can feel as they do but the JonTron stuff is way, way, waaay blown out of proportion. The devs minimized his role a lot so he literally only has one line in the whole game that's missable. He also gets no money from sold copies of the game anyways, so buying it does not support him.

I like you, Dusk Golem. However, you really have no right to state how overblown on what JonTron has said to anybody here. The developer could've minimized his role to just include a grunt sound effect by him. Point is, he's still in the game. And Gears For Breakfast have kept silent on why he is in the game or at the very least denounce his views...to this very day. You had ex-employees come on GAF expressing how heinous JonTron's words were and how neglectful their former employers were on putting out a statement about it. Plus you got all the other horrendous shit one of the lead developers have done in the past.

Reason why I said first post nails it is because I also won't deny that A Hat In Time is getting great scores and it seems like from the impressions, it is indeed a better N64-style platformer than Yooka-Laylee. If that's what the OP was asking for, he or she got their answer. However, since the OP have stated they heard mixed comments about both games, they ought to know the full story.

EDIT: Also read the post above me.
Last edited by ramoisdead; 10-13-2017 at 12:18 AM.
Diprosalic
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Santiako

Hat is probably the better game, but I'd buy the one that had the balls to remove JonTron.

One and done.
RRockman
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by Santiako

Hat is probably the better game, but I'd buy the one that had the balls to remove JonTron.

Boom
Mael
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

Jesus fucking christ are WiiU owners still on with this fucking shit?
They didn't announce or confirm a Wii U version even fucking once and the owners of the dead console are still holding a grudge? There are actual goddamn projects out there that actually promised Wii U versions, that actually had it as a stretch goal. Hat in Time did none of that.

And these projects actually let you change your pledge or get a refund.
And still without this there's still plenty of reasons to not want to deal with this company.
Sponge
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(10-13-2017, 12:10 AM)
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I have personal reasons why I won't buy Hat in Time. I knew MechaTheSlag on a forum years ago and he had a pretty awful past. It went as far him stealing someone's work and doxxing them.

I won't tell you not to buy the game because of this, but the fact Jontron is still in the game with the team being dead silent on the matter hasn't made me reconsider.

I'd say try Yooka-Laylee. Don't expect it to be as good as Kazooie, it's more on par with Tooie.
Nitpicker_Red
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:11 AM)
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A Hat in Time only had 1/10th of Yooka-Laylee's Kickstarted budget while having a longer development time (but a smaller team). They are truly indie.

Which might explain their lack of a dedicated PR department to handle the JonTron issue.
It's not something they can thread around as lightly and as simply as some Gaffers like to put it.
Last edited by Nitpicker_Red; 10-13-2017 at 12:18 AM. Reason: Fractions
BernardoOne
For you.
(10-13-2017, 12:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mael

And these projects actually let you change your pledge or get a refund.
And still without this there's still plenty of reasons to not want to deal with this company.

And this project never once promised a Wii U version, ever had a stretch goal for it or any tiers offering it.
If you're one of the 5 Wii U owners that somehow went ahead a put your money in for a imaginary version that was never up for purchase or confirmed, you're not a smart person.

Originally Posted by Valen

That's where you're wrong. It does support him. Support does not have to come in the form of money.

Anyone who continues to give work to this asshole after the things he said is helping establish the precedent that racism has no consequences. Leaving him in the game validates him. It gives him publicity. It risks exposing more kids to this asshole and his beliefs, kids who will grow up to be the next generation of Neo-Nazis.

Even after his supposed "apology" (which wasn't an apology at all - he actually doubled down on white supremacy) his supporters still continue spreading all the stupid (and utterly false) claims he made. From a review of AHIT on Steam:


I worked on A Hat in Time, but I'm going to go with the game that isn't contributing to a culture that wants me dead.

What publicity? What kind of kid is going to google a terrible throw away voice from a character that didn't matter or even said anything worthwhile? It doesn't really risks exposing more kids to anything, no.
His supporters would still be spreading their bullshit if he was removed. Shit, they'd be spreading it even harder.
Last edited by BernardoOne; 10-13-2017 at 12:16 AM.
Lijik
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

Jesus fucking christ are WiiU owners still on with this fucking shit?
They didn't announce or confirm a Wii U version even fucking once and the owners of the dead console are still holding a grudge? There are actual goddamn projects out there that actually promised Wii U versions, that actually had it as a stretch goal. Hat in Time did none of that.

Even though its couched in a lot of "We cant promise anything" language, it was part of the pitch they were looking into a Wii U version unlike other consoles where the answer was originally a flat no.
Yursaman
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 12:14 AM)
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Probably Hat in Time because its movement looks really fun, but honestly neither game looks too appealing to me.
Mael
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lijik

Even though its couched in a lot of "We cant promise anything" language, it was part of the pitch they were looking into a Wii U version unlike other consoles where the answer was originally a flat no.

they knew they could weasle a little money from unsuspecting backers that way while never planning to make good on the promise, Inafune style.
And that still wouldn't even begin to be the start of the problem anyway.
Mr-Joker
Other people suffering isn't my problem and I don't care about it.
(10-13-2017, 12:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Earth

Devs of A Hat In Time passively support a white supremacist thus alienating one of their own devs. One of the leads also has a really nasty history.

So depending on your moral values or lack-thereof, up to you.

Yep, this is why I am not supporting a hat in time.

Originally Posted by Dusk Golem

For the record, people can feel as they do but the JonTron stuff is way, way, waaay blown out of proportion. The devs minimized his role a lot so he literally only has one line in the whole game that's missable. He also gets no money from sold copies of the game anyways, so buying it does not support him.

You're missing the point.

The developers have remained quiet on Jontron comment and by doing so it speaks volume about them.

They are either cowards and care more about appealing to the wrong crowd or they support Jontron's views.


Originally Posted by Valen

That's where you're wrong. It does support him. Support does not have to come in the form of money.

Anyone who continues to give work to this asshole after the things he said is helping establish the precedent that racism has no consequences. Leaving him in the game validates him. It gives him publicity. It risks exposing more kids to this asshole and his beliefs, kids who will grow up to be the next generation of Neo-Nazis.

Even after his supposed "apology" (which wasn't an apology at all - he actually doubled down on white supremacy) his supporters still continue spreading all the stupid (and utterly false) claims he made. From a review of AHIT on Steam:


I worked on A Hat in Time, but I'm going to go with the game that isn't contributing to a culture that wants me dead.

This too.
Kudo
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Yursaman

Probably Hat in Time because its movement looks really fun, but honestly neither game looks too appealing to me.

But she's the boss.

Originally Posted by Mr-Joker

They are either cowards and care more about appealing to the wrong crowd or they support Jontron's views.

Or they don't have the leisure of multi million devs to take a side and piss of either.
Last edited by Kudo; 10-13-2017 at 12:21 AM.
epeternally
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 12:20 AM)
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As others have said, A Hat in Time is the better game by a significant margin. Better visuals, better characters, better level design, and a hell of a lot more charm.

Originally Posted by Santiako

Hat is probably the better game, but I'd buy the one that had the balls to remove JonTron.

There is that though. (I bought A Hat in Time long before release so I wasn't aware of the issue.)

Originally Posted by Kudo

Or they don't have the leisure of multi million devs to take a side and piss of either.

Your argument is that it's okay to implicitly support white supremacy if you stand to make money from it. I don't think I even need to explain why everything about that is totally and utterly wrong. Grow up and quit with this 'both sides' garbage.
Last edited by epeternally; 10-13-2017 at 12:32 AM.
Diprosalic
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(10-13-2017, 12:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nitpicker_Red

A Hat in Time only had 1/10th of Yooka-Laylee's Kickstarted budget while having a longer development time (but a smaller team). They are truly indie.

Which might explain their lack of a dedicated PR department to handle the JonTron issue.
It's not something they can thread around as lightly and as simply as some Gaffers like to put it.


What a load of BS. It takes no PR department to remove a white supremacist from your game. His role isn't that big that you couldn't remove him easily. His voice work is shitty, anyone could do it as good as he did. If he had some sort of major role you may would have a point.
Earth
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 12:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Valen

That's where you're wrong. It does support him. Support does not have to come in the form of money.

Anyone who continues to give work to this asshole after the things he said is helping establish the precedent that racism has no consequences. Leaving him in the game validates him. It gives him publicity. It risks exposing more kids to this asshole and his beliefs, kids who will grow up to be the next generation of Neo-Nazis.

Even after his supposed "apology" (which wasn't an apology at all - he actually doubled down on white supremacy) his supporters still continue spreading all the stupid (and utterly false) claims he made. From a review of AHIT on Steam:


I worked on A Hat in Time, but I'm going to go with the game that isn't contributing to a culture that wants me dead.

It's a shame this has to be reiterated; should be pretty obvious.

Really sorry to see your work being devalued because of Jontron.
rtcn63
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:24 AM)
Nevermind
Last edited by rtcn63; 10-13-2017 at 12:28 AM.
TDLink
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(10-13-2017, 12:27 AM)
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A Hat in Time is much better. It's getting free DLC at some point, allegedly, and mod support soon. So there will be a lot of user created stuff as well.
Sub Boss
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(10-13-2017, 12:29 AM)
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I dont know what Hat in Time is but i would buy it over Yooka Laylee
Kudo
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(10-13-2017, 12:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by TDLink

A Hat in Time is much better. It's getting free DLC at some point, allegedly, and mod support soon. So there will be a lot of user created stuff as well.

Almost forgot that.

2 additional worlds will arrive later as free DLC (Kickstarter stretch goal)!

Man, the game is packed with content and goodies.
Soren01
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(10-13-2017, 12:32 AM)
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A Hat in Time. JonTron's situation means nothing to me. I play games, not politics.
mieumieu
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(10-13-2017, 12:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Soren01

A Hat in Time. JonTron's situation means nothing to me. I play games, not politics.

When some politics mean people will die then it stops being politics and gamers should not bury their heads in the sand.
Thud
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(10-13-2017, 12:36 AM)
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With the patches yooka laylee is in a much better place. I haven't gotten back to it yet. Too many games lol.

I haven't bought a hat in time, but all the trailers just feel off to me. The character just seems to happy maybe. Like a full game as a Jinjo with mechanics straight from windwaker and a camera from sunshine. Feels cheap.
Glass Rebel
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(10-13-2017, 12:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Soren01

A Hat in Time. JonTron's situation means nothing to me. I play games, not politics.

I wish everyone were this honest and admit to their apathy to these issues instead of jumping through all kinds of hoops to justify their purchase.
Soren01
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(10-13-2017, 12:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by mieumieu

When some politics mean people will die then it stops being politics and gamers should not bury their heads in the sand.

AHiT is a better game imo. Is this section about games or not?
Nitpicker_Red
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(10-13-2017, 12:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Diprosalic

What a load of BS. It takes no PR department to remove a white supremacist from your game. His role isn't that big that you couldn't remove him easily. His voice work is shitty, anyone could do it as good as he did. If he had some sort of major role you may would have a point.

Hey, not talking about the dev side, but you do need a PR department for everything. Especially for handling the reactions to the removal.

I agree 100% that he should have been removed before the launch and swept under the rug if possible (no announcement). There are other mute characters in the game after all. (With the game fully modable, I wouldn't be surprised that such a mod would come out fast.)

But even without any official announcement, fans of Jontron just kind of latched to the nearest Tweet from Playtronic. You need a good PR team to contain that.

Not to appear cold to your issue, but yeah, nobody cares about their real personnal stance, only about their "official stance", so there's always uses for a PR team.
Mael
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(10-13-2017, 12:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Glass Rebel

I wish everyone were this honest and admit to their apathy to these issues instead of jumping through all kinds of hoops to justify their purchase.

It's less the justification of the purchase than the justification why people dismissing the games are somehow wrong.
Then again gamers have proven times and again that there's no low they wouldn't sink to.
From harassing women to defending the worst business practices, they would defend practically anything at all.
SilentRob
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(10-13-2017, 12:40 AM)
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The one that's not making me feel like shit by reminding me that I supported a developer who thinks it's cool to feature a known white supremacist and racist in his game. I don't even have to get to the level above that, wanting to send a message. I just wouldn't be able to enjoy A Hat in Time. Main Dev destroyed that for me.
Glass Shark
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(10-13-2017, 12:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Santiako

Hat is probably the better game, but I'd buy the one that had the balls to remove JonTron.

Yep, and Y-L is also the one where the devs aren't thieving doxxing douchebags, apparently.
Geno Breaker
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:42 AM)
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Hat in Time looks to be the better game, so that one. Granted I'd probably enjoy both. It's regrettable that Jontron is in AHIT but it's not like a Sugiyama situation where they're getting the profits and spending it to spread bullshit.
Last edited by Geno Breaker; 10-13-2017 at 12:45 AM.
WarioFan63
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 12:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Soren01

AHiT is a better game imo. Is this section about games or not?

Games are not devoid of politics.
Jayveer
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 12:43 AM)
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Yooka Laylee, but I haven't played Hat in Time yet although I have a copy from backing it when it was on Kickstarter. I wanted to play Yooka Laylee the day it was released, and played it until I finished it. I think it's the first time I've ever disagreed with the general consensus on a game, I still don't even understand the issue people have with it is.
Camjo-Z
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(10-13-2017, 12:45 AM)
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Haven't gotten to play Hat yet but I might as well vouch for Yooka-Laylee. A lot of people seem to have written it off as shovelware garbage for some reason but it's at least on par with Tooie, especially with the latest patch that fixed a lot of the initial issues people had like the ability to skip cutscenes, tone down the gibberish voices, restart during arcade games, better camera control, etc.
poodaddy
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(10-13-2017, 12:45 AM)
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I refuse to support A Hat in Time for more than just the Jontron debacle, but the director's rather.... interesting past, to put it kindly. A Hat in Time looks like an incredibly well made game, I'll give it that, but I'd rather support a foil wrapped turd than ever give money to A Hat in Time's cowardly developers, so I say gimme Yooka Laylee.
Sponge
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(10-13-2017, 12:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Glass Shark

Yep, and Y-L is also the one where the devs aren't thieving doxxing douchebags, apparently.

Here's the post I had with links related to the situation, for anyone interested.
Brazil
Living in the shadow of Amaz
(10-13-2017, 12:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Santiako

Hat is probably the better game, but I'd buy the one that had the balls to remove JonTron.

A-yup.

Originally Posted by Soren01

AHiT is a better game imo. Is this section about games or not?

Thankfully, videogames don't exist in a vacuum.
Nosgotham
Member
(10-13-2017, 12:47 AM)
hat in time. easy. but ill buy both when they come to switch
NoKisum
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(10-13-2017, 12:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Valen

I worked on A Hat in Time

Really now?

Is the rest of your team aware of this controversy going on?
Nitpicker_Red
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(10-13-2017, 12:50 AM)
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Since the discussion seems focused on it, might be a good idea to actually have a link to JonTron's Dialogue included in the game to discuss it clearly:

[►]The Owl receptionist at Dead Bird studio (optional, 3 lines)

[►]The Penguin role was in beta but is not part of the final game.
Jaded Alyx
(10-13-2017, 12:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mr-Joker




That better not be the title for the OT.
.

High probability it will be worse.
sazzy
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(10-13-2017, 12:52 AM)
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whichever gets to $5 on a Steam sale first
Soren01
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(10-13-2017, 12:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by WarioFan63

Games are not devoid of politics.

AHiT is a harmless game. GTA and AC are much more controversial games (politically) and almost nobody complains. Gamers, at least.
Ivellios
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(10-13-2017, 12:53 AM)
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A Hat in Time, the game is really polished with good gameplay, it is really a amazing 3D platformer. One of the best surprises i had in gaming this year, since i never heard of it before.
Hispanic! At the Disco
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(10-13-2017, 12:53 AM)
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Seems like most responses are “buy A Hat In Time, its great” and “dont buy A Hat In Time”

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