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m29a
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 02:02 AM)
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I just found out about A Hat in Time (had no idea about the kickstarter) and I was amazed. I didn't even think I wanted that type of game but the charm of it was off the charts and it had very smooth gameplay.
BernardoOne
For you.
(10-13-2017, 02:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by poodaddy

And they sure as shit didn't go out of their way to prevent his gaining of a platform either, though they were fully capable of depriving the bigot of one. I mean, wouldn't you deprive a bigot of their potential platform if you had the ability? Their indifference is an indictment in and of itself.

And you still haven't commented on Mecha the Slag and how much of a pile of garbage he is.....

A videogame where has throaway lines is not a "platform". And removing it is not exactly something you can do without negative effects, possibly extremely negative.
Yes, Mecha the Slag was an asshole years ago in the TF2 modding community. He didn't make A Hat in Time alone though.

Also, if anything, we've seen that removing him has the effect of give him and his shithead fans a bigger, not smaller platform.

Look at Hat in Time and Yooka-Laylee Steam forums. Look at their Steam reviews. Look at what all the Youtube videos about each one are talking about.
There's almost no talk about Jon on Hat in Time's forum. You have to dig deep a shitload of pages in to get even a mention of him.
Basically every page in Yooka Laylee's forum is infected with talks about the fucker. And you know the worst part? There's a fucking containment thread with over 6000 posts where alt-right fuckwits continue to discuss, defend and argue about all the shit JonTron has said without getting a ban.
Luigi87
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:03 AM)
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I finished AHiT this past weekend. I also plat'd Yooka-Laylee.

I backed both on KS, and was more interested in YL due to my absolute love for Banjo-Kazooie. Overall it was an okay game.

A Hat in Time, it's a much better game. It feels like it has more heart to it, and it controls incredibly well, where as I found some of the controls of Yooka-Laylee to be a bit stiff or unsatisfying (Laylee's roll has nothing on Kazooie's Talon Trot in BK for example).

Also Hat Kid's hats are much more interesting and useful than Yooka-Laylee's transformations, which for the most part were pointless one offs.
killatopak
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:04 AM)
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Hat is better in everything.
Kebiinu
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by Santiako

Hat is probably the better game, but I'd buy the one that had the balls to remove JonTron.

Exactly where I'm at, and where my money is going.
Spyder_Monkey
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:07 AM)
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Yooka gets too much hate and actually patched out a white supremacist out of the game.
kliklik
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by spad3

Should've seen the JonTron commentary coming.

I don't support JonTron, his beliefs, or anything that he stands for, but a game for gamings sake is what I primarily care about. I know the team that made AHiT was small and couldn't properly handle that whole situation, but I'm sure that the dev team doesn't share the same morals and beliefs as him.

Let's keep it at gameplay, mechanics, length of game, value of dollar spent etc.

I'm getting a lot of YL support because of JonTron hate but I'm also getting AHiT support because the game is apparently better. I'm still at square one here guys

Not sure why you're still at square one if what you care about is how the game plays.

It's pretty much unanimous that Hat in Time is the better game of the two, since EVERYONE compares the two when evaluating HiT. FOR EXAMPLE:

Originally Posted by Waypoint

"I think it's safe to say I went into A Hat in Time cautiously. I was burned pretty badly by another recent 3D platformer, Yooka-Laylee, a game that looked wonderful and sounded even better, but fundamentally misunderstood what was amazing about its inspiration (clever level design and a fun moveset). A Hat in Time looks more modest, but does so much more with its gameplay." [READ MORE]

Originally Posted by Metro

"2017 has been a great year for video games, but naturally there’s still been some disappointments. Mass Effect: Andromeda is the most obvious one, but even though we seemed to like it more than most the one that really upset us was Yooka-Laylee. Andromeda looked awful almost from the first moment, but we genuinely thought Yooka-Laylee was going to usher in a new wave of retro 3D platformers. It wasn’t good enough to have that much influence, but A Hat In Time just might be…

Each [level] manages to outdo the next in terms of unique ideas and basic competency, and you can almost feel them refining their skills at the same time as you explore their creations. And while it’s true the platforming itself never has quite the same tactile feel as a Super Mario game it’s definitely more satisfying than Yooka-Laylee ... while we’re sure [Super Mario Odyssey will] end up being the best 3D platformer of the year this will run it a surprisingly close second." [READ MORE]


ALSO SEE:
Competitive Review (comparison of Yooka-Laylee with Hat in TIme)

So far, anger and upset over JonTron has managed to derail nearly every single thread about this game and has detracted from people's ability to discuss it. Two threads ended up getting locked because of personal attacks over JonTron's involvement. So if what you're looking for is an actually good game, then don't let (overblown) moral outrage sway you.
Last edited by kliklik; 10-13-2017 at 02:20 AM.
poodaddy
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ivellios

Honest and in no way sarcastic question, do you always read the history of every developer of every game that picks your interest?

Believe it or not, I kind of do. Of course I don't, (can't), read up on every single member of every single dev team to see if they're awful or not, but I absolutely do look into directors of games, head designers and artists, head programmers, studio heads, and publisher executives and CEO's to see if I want my money going to support them or not. It sounds hard to believe, but I really don't think it's all that rare either. I started "voting with my wallet" quite some time back as I decided to stop being a hypocrite and complaining about things that I ostensibly support; so far it's helped me feel marginally less like a waste of life, so that's good then I guess.

In summary, my answer to your question is: yeah sorta.
Wanderer5
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:12 AM)
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A Hat in Time looks more fun and charming to me, so I would be getting that one.
Seik
something about preservation I guess
(10-13-2017, 02:14 AM)
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Hat in time seems to be the better game from what I saw, I bought Y-L on Steam and quite enjoyed it though.

I'm still very conflicted about buying HiT...it seems really good but the stories of the people behind it aren't the brightest. Maybe when it'll be on discount at some point. I'll be pretty busy with Mario Odyssey, Fire Emblem Warriors and Xenoblade 2 so I'm good until February at the very least.
Nitpicker_Red
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

Basically every page in Yooka Laylee's forum is infected with talks about the fucker. And you know the worst part? There's a fucking containment thread with over 6000 posts where alt-right fuckwits continue to discuss, defend and argue about all the shit JonTron has said without getting a ban.

Wow. Pinned? And the thread still continues recently? Wouldn't fault people for calling that "a platform" yeah. Playtronic must be worried about the backlash leaking toward the rest of their PR.
By comparison, different ways of handling the issue... With opposite effects. Crowd-control and PR is hard to manage/predict.
Last edited by Nitpicker_Red; 10-13-2017 at 02:29 AM. Reason: Point is: Don't feed
CannonFodder52
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by kliklik


So far, anger and upset over JonTron has managed to derail nearly every single thread about this game and has detracted from people's ability to discuss it. Two threads ended up getting locked because of personal attacks over JonTron's involvement. So if what you're looking for is an actually good game, then don't let (overblown) moral outrage sway you.

Yo, check the OT, there is free discussion there. The people who care about the Jontron shenanigans have been respectful and left that alone, along with much of the review thread.
The responses to this thread are pretty fair given the original question.
TyMiles2012
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

If you want a good game, then go for A Hat in Time. Modding support is also coming pretty soon so you'll have people making endless content for it.

Oh man that has me excited! Though there was a lot of stuff I didn't know about before reading the thread, but I have to admit, a hat in time is a very well developed game regardless of the dev's history. They really nailed the mechanics down, also the little details like the mafia that plays Patty cake
PSlayer
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 02:26 AM)
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Hat in time
Glass Rebel
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

A videogame where has throaway lines is not a "platform". And removing it is not exactly something you can do without negative effects, possibly extremely negative.
Yes, Mecha the Slag was an asshole years ago in the TF2 modding community. He didn't make A Hat in Time alone though.

Also, if anything, we've seen that removing him has the effect of give him and his shithead fans a bigger, not smaller platform.

Look at Hat in Time and Yooka-Laylee Steam forums. Look at their Steam reviews. Look at what all the Youtube videos about each one are talking about.
There's almost no talk about Jon on Hat in Time's forum. You have to dig deep a shitload of pages in to get even a mention of him.
Basically every page in Yooka Laylee's forum is infected with talks about the fucker. And you know the worst part? There's a fucking containment thread with over 6000 posts where alt-right fuckwits continue to discuss, defend and argue about all the shit JonTron has said without getting a ban.

I hope you realize how ridiculous you sound and that this tactic of ignoring racist shitheads like Jontron has never worked and never will.
Alastor3
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sailent

First one got it.

But IMO none of them are worthy of my money.

what a game need to be worthy of your money ??
Heartskips
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 02:33 AM)
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Yooka Laylee. No support for racists. You'll have a better "hat game" with Mario already too and if you like 64 platformers YL looks decent enough.
kliklik
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Glass Rebel

I hope you realize how ridiculous you sound and that this tactic of ignoring racist shitheads like Jontron has never worked and never will.

This is why threads about this game that devolve into discussion and hyperbole over JonTron's involvement eventually get locked. People become very disrespectful to other users, commenting on the user themselves.

No, BernardoOne does not sound ridiculous. They put forward a sincere and reasonable point. They showed a contrast in the community when the developers took two opposite approaches. That you still disagree with what they did doesn't mean it didn't "work", nor does it mean that BernardoOne is "ridiculous".
L Thammy
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alastor3

what a game need to be worthy of your money ??

No, games shouldn't have to prove themselves to the customers. Everyone should be obligated to buy every video game unless there is a significant enough issue to force an exception.
capylikesgames
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lijik

Maxof2D has distanced himself from that original 2015 response so I dont know why you're quoting it
edit- just noticed its cus that link goes to the original response and not the recent one he made on twitter like i assumed

Somehow, I'm not surprised to hear the lead dev of A Hat in Time is still an awful person to work for. He never really apologized for the theft and slander towards Max. He just slid it under the rug, which is never a good sign. It might just be an aside on Max's part, but I'm fully willing to believe that he still acts that way. All that said, I do hope people come out if there was any foul-play during Hat in Time development on Jonas's part. I understand if they choose not to, because of likely harassment, but if this guy still takes advantage of those who assist on his projects, it needs to be known.
BernardoOne
For you.
(10-13-2017, 02:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Glass Rebel

I hope you realize how ridiculous you sound and that this tactic of ignoring racist shitheads like Jontron has never worked and never will.

I showed you the very verifiable difference between the forums and where actual "platforming" existed. Removing him from the game actually increased his platforming. Removing him from the game has exposed more people to him and his shitty ideas, not less.
Every single person that buys Yooka Laylee and decides to check the forum for whatever reason will be faced by the very first, pinned thread, with 6000 goddamn posts filled with the brim with mostly hate speech.
People that buy A Hat in Time won't find that on the forums, and they sure as hell won't will magically be attracted to that one unremarkable shitty voice actor they heard spew two irrelevant lines during their playthrough. They won't even remember it, much less have any urge to know who did those lines.

Not to mention


erm


playtronic literally ignoring all racist shitheads filling up their 6000 filling up their pinned thread?
Last edited by BernardoOne; 10-13-2017 at 03:04 AM.
DontTouchMe
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:44 AM)
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I've had so much fun with A Hat in Time that I didn't want to finish it. I can't wait for the workshop to be open up for everyone so I can pick it up again. I'm really looking forward to it.
CannonFodder52
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

.

I mean, Jontron already has millions of subs and gets invited onto podcasts with Sargon. He has a way larger platform than this game offers. I think people are far more annoyed that the dev has chosen to not disassociate from him, not write any statement, just go radio silent.

I saw this (crude) fanart on twitter earlier today.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLfWXmnUEAAkseh.jpg:large
Last edited by CannonFodder52; 10-13-2017 at 02:54 AM.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
(10-13-2017, 02:47 AM)
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Iíve never really been interested in Hat in Time. But Iíve looked forward to Yooka since the beginning. Iíll get it on Switch if it ever gets a physical release there.
Omnii-chan
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:49 AM)
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Hat in Time looks to be a better game from what I've seen of the two.
Last edited by Omnii-chan; 10-13-2017 at 02:52 AM.
Wildo09
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 02:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by CannonFodder52

I saw this fanart on twitter earlier today.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLfWXmnUEAAkseh.jpg:large

Man, kids these days.
A.J.
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Glass Rebel

I hope you realize how ridiculous you sound and that this tactic of ignoring racist shitheads like Jontron has never worked and never will.

Isn't Playtonic ignoring it in that case of the forum as well by letting the people defending Jontron freely air their opinion?
Last edited by A.J.; 10-13-2017 at 03:00 AM.
kliklik
Member
(10-13-2017, 02:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by A.J.

Isn't Playtonic ignoring it in that case of the forum as well by letting the people defending Jontron freely air their opinion.

Not to mention, isn't Youtube giving JonTron a platform by allowing him to continue getting millions of views on their site and rake in ad revenue? I'm sure everyone's Youtube boycotts are going well.
Gaogaogao
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:02 AM)
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did jontron get paid to be in a hat in time?
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
(10-13-2017, 03:02 AM)
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I'd buy the better game. I don't give a shit about the behind the scenes politics of entertainment I consume.
SerfaBoy
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 03:04 AM)

Originally Posted by nkarafo

I don't really like Hat's art direction and visuals. Yooka looks much better for me. I also loved the game but i haven't played Hat yet to make a comparison in gameplay.

I must admit, I'm in the same boat. After watching the trailer, there was something about the visuals that didn't gel with me. Part of it looked too busy, while the other aspects looked "flat".
Maximo
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gaogaogao

did jontron get paid to be in a hat in time?

From the information we know he either offered for free or paid to be a voice actor, no information that he was paid or gets paid in royalties.
kliklik
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gaogaogao

did jontron get paid to be in a hat in time?

Posters in other threads have stated that JonTron paid to be in the game. If that is the case, removing him would likely legally require them to refund him, thus paying him money for his racist beliefs.
Gaogaogao
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by kliklik

Posters in other threads have stated that JonTron paid to be in the game. If that is the case, removing him would likely legally require them to refund him, thus paying him money for his racist beliefs.

I dont think thats how refunds work but ok.
they would pay him to not be in the game, which would be respectable.
Last edited by Gaogaogao; 10-13-2017 at 03:10 AM.
Meffer
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:10 AM)
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I'm going to get Hat in Time when it's out on PS4.
kliklik
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gaogaogao

I dont think thats how refunds work but ok

Not sure what you mean? If he paid to be in the game, and if they remove him, then he wouldn't be getting the service he paid for. They'd need to make it right by refunding him the money he paid. I think that's pretty much the basics of contract law, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Gaogaogao
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by kliklik

Not sure what you mean? If he paid to be in the game, and if they remove him, then he wouldn't be getting the service he paid for. They'd need to make it right by refunding him the money he paid. I think that's pretty much the basics of contract law, but correct me if I'm wrong.

they are not paying for his beliefs, they are refunding him and his baggage to stay out.

money out baggage out
Last edited by Gaogaogao; 10-13-2017 at 03:15 AM.
ShironRedshift
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by A.J.

Isn't Playtonic ignoring it in that case of the forum as well by letting the people defending Jontron freely air their opinion?

...And the reason that happened in the first place is because people shit it up because they removed his voice. I mean, this itself kind of proves the difference, yes? That removing a voice is a one-and-done action, but moderating a forum like that requires 24/7 attention? That Steam doesn't help with whatsoever and expects devs to do completely on their own time?

Like, if that's still nothing, then what does that make Gears for Breakfast, since they can't even remove his voice in the first place? Less than nothing? Not sure what point you're making here, since either way it still results in Gears for Breakfast coming off worse since they still can't even take that first step. That they can't even do the easy part, or even something like writing a PR piece or anything, nevermind cleaning up the mess on the Steam forum that would result. This lame attempt at a gotcha makes no sense, since the effort required by the two tasks is nowhere close to equal (which Playtonic themselves proves, doing one but not the other). Like.. what?
kliklik
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gaogaogao

they are not paying for his beliefs, they are refunding him and his baggage.

Sure, but effectively, he'd be profiting because of his beliefs.

If they don't remove him for the racist things he said, he makes no money.

If they do remove him for the racist things he said, he makes money.

So, not removing him would be the way to go if you don't want him to make money as a direct result of the things he said.
Lijik
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gaogaogao

did jontron get paid to be in a hat in time?

No one knows this except Gears for Breakfast and Jontron. Ive seen a lot of "Well he paid to be in the game" without proof (and looking for some doesnt turn anything up) and "Well it was a kickstarter reward actually" despite there being no tier to voice a character in the game

Not surprised its being used for a disingenuous gotcha attempt despite that
Glass Rebel
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(10-13-2017, 03:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

I showed you the very verifiable difference between the forums and where actual "platforming" existed. Removing him from the game actually increased his platforming. Removing him from the game has exposed more people to him and his shitty ideas, not less.
Every single person that buys Yooka Laylee and decides to check the forum for whatever reason will be faced by the very first, pinned thread, with 6000 goddamn posts filled with the brim with mostly hate speech.
People that buy A Hat in Time won't find that on the forums, and they sure as hell won't will magically be attracted to that one unremarkable shitty voice actor they heard spew two irrelevant lines during their playthrough. They won't even remember it, much less have any urge to know who did those lines.

You're intentionally twisting the concerns of people that find his inclusion in this game problematic and you did it earlier in this thread with someone who actually worked on the game as well. Playtonic did the right thing by removing him from Y-L, publicly stating that they do not support his racist and sexist views. The fact that the HiT developers chose to neither remove him nor comment on the situation acts as an indirect endorsement of his views or at least sends the message that they do not find his abhorrent public statements objectionable enough. They might not share the same opinions as JonTron but that does not absolve them from the consequences of their actions, or rather inaction. JonTron and his views should have no place in gaming and Gears for Breakfast gave him one in their game.

That you are bringing up the stuff on the Yooka-Laylee Steam forums as an argument for why Gears for Breakfast shouldn't address the issue is ironic because it's the same apathy and inaction in the gaming industry that has let this toxicity fester underneath the surface in the first place. This shit isn't coming out of nowhere and until the industry at large starts rejecting people like JonTron instead of throwing a blanket over the situation and acting like they didn't see it, nothing will change. If Gears for Breakfast's intentions are pure, it's kinda crappy that this fell on them but after Playtonic came out with a public statement against JonTron, they had to take a side and it's clear which one they chose, for whatever reason.
CannonFodder52
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:16 AM)
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The whole, Jontron paid to be in the game, comment started from one poster's conjecture. I think they were trying to give an explaination as to why he wasn't removed from the game and landed on the idea that there must be some legal issue why he couldn't be removed.
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 03:17 AM)
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I enjoyed both games, but A Hat in Time is definitely the better of the two.
GrayFoxPL
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:17 AM)
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It's funny, the more bad things I hear about Yoka Laylee, the more I want to play it.

Hoping on a psn sale.
Sou Da
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(10-13-2017, 03:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by kliklik

Sure, but effectively, he'd be profiting because of his beliefs.

If they don't remove him for the racist things he said, he makes no money.

If they do remove him for the racist things he said, he makes money.

So, not removing him would be the way to go if you don't want him to make money as a direct result of the things he said.

Good lord this fucking logic.
Glass Rebel
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by A.J.

Isn't Playtonic ignoring it in that case of the forum as well by letting the people defending Jontron freely air their opinion?

I am not exactly sure what Steam's moderation rules are but Playtonic's views on the matter are pretty clear from the OP there:

Hey Community,

Weíre creating this thread as a place to consolidate all discussion regarding the recent statement regarding voice actor JonTron.

Please note that, as is typical on a public discussion forum, we do not welcome messages containing:
Racist, Homophobic and Sexist language.
Attacking other forum users and/or the moderation team.
Use of offensive language.
Off topic conversation.
Spam.
If you behave or display any of the above behaviours then moderation will occur.

The official statement from Team17 & Playtonic can be read here.[www.gamesindustry.biz]

Just to highlight some points to avoid confusion:
JonTron was never employed or contracted by Playtonic or Team17.
No money was exchanged, in either direction, for JonTron's voice to be in the game.
It was a voluntary thing, for fun.
Yes, he was voicing the groans of a character trying to squeeze out a stubborn poo.
To aid in de-cluttering the forums any other JonTron discussions will be locked and conversation directed to this one.

If Playtonic has failed in any way, it's a moderation/logistical problem, not a messaging problem like what Gears for Breakfast has done.
BaconHat
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:21 AM)
Hat in time may be the most polished experience of the two, but i was waiting for what yooka represented since banjo-tooie. It was not everything that i hoped,true, but if there can be only one, then it will always be for me yooka.
A.J.
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by ShironRedshift

...And the reason that happened in the first place is because people shit it up because they removed his voice. I mean, this itself kind of proves the difference, yes? That removing a voice is a one-and-done action, but moderating a forum like that requires 24/7 attention? That Steam doesn't help with whatsoever and expects devs to do completely on their own time?

Like, if that's still nothing, then what does that make Gears for Breakfast, since they can't even remove his voice in the first place? Less than nothing? Not sure what point you're making here, since either way it still results in Gears for Breakfast coming off worse since they still can't even take that first step. That they can't even do the easy part, or even something like writing a PR piece or anything, nevermind cleaning up the mess on the Steam forum that would result. This lame attempt at a gotcha makes no sense, since the effort required by the two tasks is nowhere close to equal (which Playtonic themselves proves, doing one but not the other). Like.. what?

I agree what GfB did was shitty and they should have definitely put out some sort of PR. I'm just commenting on the fact that Playtonic should moderate the shit polluting their forum if they are serious about standing against Jontron's stance. These fuckers are like a hydra where chopping off one head only spawns five more.
Crayolan
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:22 AM)
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I can't speak for Yooka Laylee, but A Hat in Time is fantastic. It has great movement, great level design, great music, tons of charm, a lot of humor, and is super cute.
Fitts
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sou Da

Good lord this fucking logic.

Gotta admit that this is pretty sound, though:

Originally Posted by kliklik

Not to mention, isn't Youtube giving JonTron a platform by allowing him to continue getting millions of views on their site and rake in ad revenue? I'm sure everyone's Youtube boycotts are going well.


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