When it's all said and done; Holland will cameo in these movies and they will tie into the MCU like how the Netflix shows do. They will avoid as many MCU allusions as possible except when only 100% needed to establish the world. They won't be dropping "The Big Green Guy" or "The Flag Waver" in any of these movies, but you may see a Stark logo on something or one mention of "The Incident" just to get it out of the way.
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Venom, Black Cat & other highly anticipated Spidey spinoffs NOT set in MCU
- Thread starter George Oscar Bluth II
- Start date
darkhunger
Member
Because they need to make more movies than one every two to three years.
They can probably reference Spider-Man related things but anything beyond that, i.e. Avengers, etc. is off-limits.
SaviourMK2
Member
I'm starting to dislike these film universes. The Netflix Marvel series indicates (at least in Daredevil) that they're in the MCU following the Avengers but officials say they're not in the same universe, but now Venom and Black Cat aren't?
Yes Pls
Yes Pls
Glass Rebel
Member
perfection
The deal struck by Marvel and Sony is very specific about what they can and can't do.
However, I do not know how they got around that for the animated Spider-Man movie which features Miles.
Sad Affleck
Member
"this deal is getting better all the time"
-young han solo
😂😂😂
thats my dude right there
read the OP, i think you skipped it
-young han solo
😂😂😂
thats my dude right there
read the OP, i think you skipped it
I'm... not sure you read the OP?
No, these movies will not tie into the MCU. Holland will not be in them.
There will be no Stark logo. There will be no mention of "The Incident."
The Netflix shows are in the MCU. Venom is not.
Undead Fantasy
Member
No point to see them then.
What did he mean by this?
Member
If theyre not in the MCU then the Netflix shows are even less in the MCU since they dont even have a single crossover character
My point is they clearly are in the MCU if TOM Holland interacts with them and the public will see it as such regardless of legal necessities of separating them.
Thata the deal you signed Feige
My point is they clearly are in the MCU if TOM Holland interacts with them and the public will see it as such regardless of legal necessities of separating them.
Thata the deal you signed Feige
Lol
Come back to this point after Tom Holland has appeared in a Venom movie. Otherwise you're speculating and jumping to baseless conclusions.
KeyBladerXIII
Member
Wait...Spidey bad guy movies with little to no spidey? That aren't a part of the MCU...
Wait, what happens when they have to pick a bad guy for Homecoming 2 and 3? Can Sony just say, "Nope, sorry! We're already planning a Mysterio and Kraven movie, you can't use them there."
Wait, what happens when they have to pick a bad guy for Homecoming 2 and 3? Can Sony just say, "Nope, sorry! We're already planning a Mysterio and Kraven movie, you can't use them there."
Pfaahaha
Venom is never going into production. Neither is Silver & Black. Don't worry about it.
What did he mean by this?
Member
I feel Sony using the character they own in their movies is less baseless and more logical than Sony excluding Spider-Man just to be nice to Marvel
This Spidey deal has always seemed lopsided to me, and I'm glad Sony is making the most of it
Yea that Miles movies should be great from what I've read.
But it just makes sense to me. Give Marvel free reign to use Peter Parker and Live Action Miles however they want, Sony gets to help produce and keep the majority of the profit and helps fund the movie (Marvel gets money from merchandise so this will help expand their universe, make more money, etc).
Meanwhile, make a Spider-Gwen or Spiderman 2099 movie. Spider-Man 2099 makes sense simply because it's far removed from the MCU, so villains like Venom 2099 would be different compared to Venom in the MCU. Spider-Gwen makes sense, because you get liberties with the alternate universe. For instance Matthew Murdock as the Kingpin.
And then in a few years (6-10) if Marvel wants, let them tackle a Spider-Verse movie. Let Gwen/Miguel 2099 crossover, a long with other Spider-Men.
darkhunger
Member
The OP doesn't say Holland will not be in it.
In fact nothing new is coming with this interview. Sony's always said Venom is part of "Sony's Marvel Universe", and when Pascal said that Venom and Black Cat would take place in a different corner of SM: Homecoming and that they were looking to bring Holland onto the spinoffs, she never mentioned the MCU, people just came into conclusions. The MCU is a Marvel concept that Sony can't just take and use for their own, but it doesn't mean they can't leverage the bits and pieces of it that they do own, such as Spidey and his world.
bananafactory
Banned
Of course it isn't. I've been saying this for years. Why would Marvel let Sony go and make movies in THEIR universe?
Glass Rebel
Member
so far:
Venom
Black & Silver
they also said they're considering Mysterio and Kraven
god help us all
So can both Marvel and Sony use Spider-Man villains and characters?
This won't get confusing fast.
skullomania
Member
To be fair he says "that's not something I'm involved with ... as of now..."
lol this is so weird. Theyre making these movies because of Spidey in the MCU looking like a big success, but they wont actually be in the same cinematic universe and arent even going to have Spidey in them? Shouldnt be confusing for audiences at all. Didnt New York get leveled in [MCU movie]? Why is it totally fine now? Wheres Spider Man? Or Iron Man?
Tom Rothman collects your fanboy tears and uses them to make sweet, sweet wine.
And before you ask, yes, that includes the tears of laughter you cry and some of his shenanigans.
I can literally see their thought process on this. As they pour over the list of the Spidey characters they have the rights to they see something like Mysterio and think "This could be our Dr Strange".
There's no doubt in my mind that this is how they are approaching this, as a knock-off Marvel universe of their own and once they've run out the clock on their deal with Fiege they'll just 'disconnect' Spider-Man from then MCU and have him 'live' in their self contained Sony-verse.
Providing of course that any of this gets that far...., which is highly dubious at best.
And before you ask, yes, that includes the tears of laughter you cry and some of his shenanigans.
I can literally see their thought process on this. As they pour over the list of the Spidey characters they have the rights to they see something like Mysterio and think "This could be our Dr Strange".
There's no doubt in my mind that this is how they are approaching this, as a knock-off Marvel universe of their own and once they've run out the clock on their deal with Fiege they'll just 'disconnect' Spider-Man from then MCU and have him 'live' in their self contained Sony-verse.
Providing of course that any of this gets that far...., which is highly dubious at best.
MrMephistoX
Member
It's all speculation both ways at this time. It doesn't logical sense because at the end of the day Spiderman probably will be in the Sony spin off movies: Spider-Man homecoming 2 has already been green lit. They don't have to nod to the MCU to share the same actor and it's in Marvel's best interest to not diminish the brand even if they aren't directly involved. A spidermanless spidey universe sounds ridiculous because it fucking is ridiculous.
Laplasakos
Member
MCU or not, i am still excited for the Venom movie.
Also, bring on Black Cat too (please cast Kaya Scodelario for the role)
Also, bring on Black Cat too (please cast Kaya Scodelario for the role)
I read it just fine. I stand by what I said. Things can change, but I'm confident (not avatar bet confident) in what I said.
Stallion Dan
Member
Homecoming+2+3
Venom
Black Kat
Homecoming+2+3 are also MCU.
SMU like a pocket universe with a bit of crossover.
Laplasakos
Member
99% no.
Well...those characters are fucked.
MugiwaraCole
Member
It's impossible for these movies to reference a universe they aren't a part of. Sony can't just do what they want here.
This is so dumb. I want to actually see Black Cat in the MCU eventually. Not a huge Venom fan, but him too. Just God.
Stallion Dan
Member
Is there a reason they can't just do these movies like Spiderman, Sony pays and Marvel make them & get to borrow characters? Symbiote suit in Infinity War would be great.
MrMephistoX
Member
No one knows it's all speculation.
I still think thd spin-off films don't have much reason to exist if they don't have any connection to Spider-Man.
From Feige's comments, Spider-Man is the only one traveling from Sony. Making the statement the spin-offs are in the MCU carries the assumption that Marvel Studios is producing them, which they aren't. Marvel had to have known Sony would continue to make films and piggyback off Spidey's success, they are the ones who put up all the money and make most of the profit, afterall.
By Pascal's comments, which were more deliberate and carefully worded than people think, she never confirms the spin-offs are a part of the MCU, but rather "their universe". Homecoming may be produced by Marvel but Sony still has the deal with Holland which extends too the 3rd Spider-Man film, of which Marvel is not currently part of the deal for, just part 2. In the interview, she also stops short of confirming Holland will appear in the spin-offs but teases it could always still happen, which is something even Feige does if it is at least on the table. Venom and Silver and Black are still early in production, so I don't expect to hear about it either way for a while, at least until they are ready for a more formal announcement of plans.
Pascal also makes a point of how they are "adjuncts" and in different locations, which points to me to be the same sort of arrangement Marvel TV has with the MCU. TV can reference film but don't expect it the other way around. As long as TV doesn't step on any toes, they are good.
The only real news I take from this whole ordeal is that Sony seems anxious to be included in the whole thing whereas before, the impression I got from Sony's PR about the deal (making a point how they had creative control) or their demands in the leaked emails, I always got the impression that as desperate as Sony was to get stuff from Marvel and have it make them look good, they weren't all that willing to give up much. It was the impression that Sony felt they held all the cards and Marvel were the ones who had something more to gain, even if both parties knew that wasn't exactly true. This makes it seem like they know how valuable this connection is for their brand. They may still be stuck in their old ways, but I think they will slowly realize how much they both win by letting Marvel steer the ship, hopefully before they make their first spin-off.
From Feige's comments, Spider-Man is the only one traveling from Sony. Making the statement the spin-offs are in the MCU carries the assumption that Marvel Studios is producing them, which they aren't. Marvel had to have known Sony would continue to make films and piggyback off Spidey's success, they are the ones who put up all the money and make most of the profit, afterall.
By Pascal's comments, which were more deliberate and carefully worded than people think, she never confirms the spin-offs are a part of the MCU, but rather "their universe". Homecoming may be produced by Marvel but Sony still has the deal with Holland which extends too the 3rd Spider-Man film, of which Marvel is not currently part of the deal for, just part 2. In the interview, she also stops short of confirming Holland will appear in the spin-offs but teases it could always still happen, which is something even Feige does if it is at least on the table. Venom and Silver and Black are still early in production, so I don't expect to hear about it either way for a while, at least until they are ready for a more formal announcement of plans.
Pascal also makes a point of how they are "adjuncts" and in different locations, which points to me to be the same sort of arrangement Marvel TV has with the MCU. TV can reference film but don't expect it the other way around. As long as TV doesn't step on any toes, they are good.
The only real news I take from this whole ordeal is that Sony seems anxious to be included in the whole thing whereas before, the impression I got from Sony's PR about the deal (making a point how they had creative control) or their demands in the leaked emails, I always got the impression that as desperate as Sony was to get stuff from Marvel and have it make them look good, they weren't all that willing to give up much. It was the impression that Sony felt they held all the cards and Marvel were the ones who had something more to gain, even if both parties knew that wasn't exactly true. This makes it seem like they know how valuable this connection is for their brand. They may still be stuck in their old ways, but I think they will slowly realize how much they both win by letting Marvel steer the ship, hopefully before they make their first spin-off.
Does Sony own the merchandising rights to these other characters? If so, I imagine that alone would prevent them from going for a similar deal .