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Syriel · Apr 30, 2017

ECJ said:
The temporary reproduction on a multimedia player of a copyright-protected work obtained by streaming is not exempt from the right of reproduction.

Previously, there were folks in the EU who argued that streaming pirated content was exempt from copyright law because they weren't saving files, just viewing them.

Until this week, when the ECJ ruled on BREIN vs. Filmspeler and definitively said that this was not the case.

ECJ said:
The Court also finds that temporary acts of reproduction, on that multimedia player, of a copyright protected work obtained by streaming on a website belonging to a third party offering that work without the consent of the copyright holder, cannot be exempted from the right of reproduction.

Under the directive, an act of reproduction is only exempt from the right of reproduction if it satisfies five conditions, namely (1) the act is temporary, (2) it is transient or incidental, (3) it is an integral and technical part of a technological process, (4) the sole purpose of that process is to enable a transmission in a network between third parties by an intermediary or a lawful use of a work or subject matter, and (5) that act does not have any independent economic significance.

Those conditions are cumulative in the sense that non-compliance with one of them will lead to the act of reproduction not being exempted. Furthermore, the exemption is to be applied only in certain special cases which do not impair the normal exploitation of the work or other subject matter and do not unreasonably prejudice the legitimate interests of the right holder.

*Bold is in original quote

No more arguing that it's only illegal to host pirated content in the EU. If you are downloading or streaming pirated content in the EU, you're officially breaking the law.

Source:
http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2017-04/cp170040en.pdf
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/documents.jsf?num=C-527/15

oldmario · Apr 30, 2017

i think this is more about selling kodi boxes with the streaming apps on that got made illegal in the EU the other day

Syriel · Apr 30, 2017

It covered both.

Selling streaming boxes that are pre-configured to access pirate streams = illegal.

Streaming pirated content on your own = illegal.

Rodelero · Apr 30, 2017

Thank God for Brexit.

TyrantII · Apr 30, 2017

Still legal in the US, for now

Faustek · Apr 30, 2017

Syriel said:
Previously, there were folks in the EU who argued that streaming pirated content was exempt from copyright law because they weren't saving files, just viewing them.

Swede here. Nope it wasn't illegal. Still not illegal to stream my plex libraries to friends and family either.

Kart94 · Apr 30, 2017

How about this, you lower prices for movie tickets if one day you want to somehow enforce it. Would that be a deal?

Lkr · Apr 30, 2017

call me crazy, but i don't see this stopping anyone from downloading/streaming shit

Kart94 · Apr 30, 2017

Lkr said:
call me crazy, but i don't see this stopping anyone from downloading/streaming shit

Yeah, nah they are not going to enforce it...I mean has anyone actually going arrested and thrown in jail for watching Marvel's latest movie on some random website.

Nightbird · Apr 30, 2017

If i didn't need to hop trough multiple hoops to watch some stuff, I wouldn't need to do that.

Netflix and Amazon Prime doesn't cover everything.

Androidsleeps · Apr 30, 2017

Kart94 said:
How about this, you lower prices for movie tickets if one day you want to somehow enforce it. Would that be a deal?

No, but how about you make the content legally available to a wider market. It's bullshit that I have to use vpn to stream some services

Faustek · Apr 30, 2017

Kart94 said:
How about this, you lower prices for movie tickets if one day you want to somehow enforce it. Would that be a deal?

Why not let me stream it directly to my TV? On release day that is.
My tv, my sound system and my sofa is better quality in every aspect than the cinema can offer me anyway.

Kart94 · Apr 30, 2017

Androidsleeps said:
No, but how about you make the content legally available to a wider market. It's bullshit that I have to use vpn to stream some services

lol how about some of those big movies that when released you have to wait 3..4 months just to watch it.

Slaythe · Apr 30, 2017

Kart94 said:
How about this, you lower prices for movie tickets if one day you want to somehow enforce it. Would that be a deal?

Movie tickets ? What's the alternative ? Shitty cam rips ? Lol
If you care about a movie, a shitty can rip isn't gonna satisfy a lot of people.

The streaming hurtful business is how it lets you access unlimited movies ( DVD and Blu-ray quality) tv shows and cartoons + anime.

That is more of an issue than shitty cam rips IMO.

Syriel · May 2, 2017

Kart94 said:
lol how about some of those big movies that when released you have to wait 3..4 months just to watch it.

Are you arguing that piracy is justified because you don't want to go to the theater and can't wait for the home video release?

Minamu · May 2, 2017

Faustek said:
Swede here. Nope it wasn't illegal. Still not illegal to stream my plex libraries to friends and family either.

As another Swede, please explain this. I thought I read that Swedish courts took this new law to heart immediately.

BibiMaghoo · May 2, 2017

Syriel said:
Are you arguing that piracy is justified because you don't want to go to the theater and can't wait for the home video release?

Something being legally unobtainable is the only legitimate justification piracy has. It is certainly true that some cannot go to theaters to watch a film. I'm not sure how many people have internet access and can't buy a DVD, or access a paid streaming service, but perhaps they exist.

lightskintwin · May 2, 2017

Kart94 said:
lol how about some of those big movies that when released you have to wait 3..4 months just to watch it.

So being patient until it comes out in your region isn't an option? LOL

Irishmantis · May 2, 2017

Living in a World of Netflix and Spotify I never feel the need

Khrysler Jerikho · May 2, 2017

Apparently the anime torrent site Nyaatorrents shut down because of this ruling

MUnited83 · May 2, 2017

Syriel said:
It covered both.

Selling streaming boxes that are pre-configured to access pirate streams = illegal.

Streaming pirated content on your own = illegal.

Not as simple as that actually. If a EU country has a law that explicitly allows it, this doesn't change anything at all.

Kthulhu · May 2, 2017

Kart94 said:
lol how about some of those big movies that when released you have to wait 3..4 months just to watch it.

Oh no, not a whole 3-4 months.

Kuro · May 2, 2017

Khrysler Jerikho said:
Apparently the anime torrent site Nyaatorrents shut down because of this ruling

Which is weird because they only host torrents.

Acorn · May 2, 2017

Irishmantis said:
Living in a World of Netflix and Spotify I never feel the need

Netflix is shit for movies outside North America. Need Sky movies for recent movies(which I have, aswell as netflix, amazon etc) or to buy everything online/BR/DVD in the UK.

Kthulhu · May 2, 2017

Acorn said:
Netflix is shit for movies outside North America. Need Sky movies for recent movies(which I have, aswell as netflix, amazon etc) or to buy everything online/BR/DVD in the UK.

Do iTunes and Google Play have bad selections for the EU? In the US they have pretty much everything that is and isn't on Netflix.

Acorn · May 2, 2017

Kthulhu said:
Do iTunes and Google Play have bad selections for the EU? In the US they have pretty much everything that is and isn't on Netflix.

Nah you can buy individual movies fine, they release at the same time as dvd etc. If you're doing that might aswell wait 2 months more and get Sky Movies though.

Edit I mean doing it on a regular basis. Generally movies are 10quid or above to buy 5quidish to rent so do it a few times and you're paying pretty much the same as you would for a sky movies sub.

Shiggy · May 2, 2017

So I need to use a VPN now to legally watch Doctor Who on the BBC iPlayer if I don't want to be waiting for new episode for half a year till they are released in Germany?

In reality, I wonder how they would want to find out who's streaming something? I mean, I only do that when the series I want to watch aren't available in my country in a timely manner (Fresh off the Boat, Doctor Who).

-Plasma Reus- · May 2, 2017

I have amazon prime. I take my laptop from the UK to let's say Ireland. Suddenly I can't watch the shows I'm paying for. Is it illegal for me to try to get my hands on them? I mean, wouldnt it be absurd if the dvd i bought in UK suddenly didn't work any more on my dvd player if I brought both over? Because that's what happens, often.

Region locking should be illegal. Fix that first.

Prophet Steve · May 2, 2017

Shiggy said:
So I need to use a VPN now to legally watch Doctor Who on the BBC iPlayer if I don't want to be waiting for new episode for half a year till they are released in Germany?

Uh, I'm not sure if that is legal at all.

And anyway, I think BBC One is available on television?

It's also not that difficult to figure out who is streaming shows.

Kthulhu · May 2, 2017

-Plasma Reus- said:
I have amazon prime. I take my laptop from the UK to let's say Ireland. Suddenly I can't watch the shows I'm paying for. Is it illegal for me to try to get my hands on them? I mean, wouldnt it be absurd if the dvd i bought in UK suddenly didn't work any more on my dvd player if I brought both over? Because that's what happens, often.

The issue is that Amazon my have the rights to stream in the UK for certain content that they don't have in another country. I'd recommend just getting a VPN if you travel a lot.

Deleted member 1235 · May 2, 2017

Brein still around? I thought cancer would have killed that guy oh wait there is no god

YuriLowell · May 2, 2017

TyrantII said:
Still legal in the US, for now

how?

Acorn · May 2, 2017

-Plasma Reus- said:
I have amazon prime. I take my laptop from the UK to let's say Ireland. Suddenly I can't watch the shows I'm paying for. Is it illegal for me to try to get my hands on them? I mean, wouldnt it be absurd if the dvd i bought in UK suddenly didn't work any more on my dvd player if I brought both over? Because that's what happens, often.

Region locking should be illegal. Fix that first.

Zero chance of that happening with us being brexting like cunts.

Not that there was much of a chance anyway.

jorma · May 2, 2017

Minamu said:
As another Swede, please explain this. I thought I read that Swedish courts took this new law to heart immediately.

Private copies aren't illegal.
And the copyright industry actually get reimbursed in the millions for this perfectly legal activity from unwilling hardware makers.
It's garbage, but their lobby powers are strong.

Shiggy · May 2, 2017

Prophet Steve said:
Uh, I'm not sure if that is legal at all.

And anyway, I think BBC One is available on television?

VPN services to circumvent geoblocking aren't illegal. And BBC One isn't available on German TV.

It's also not that difficult to figure out who is streaming shows.

When they are out? Nobody in Germany. Maybe half a year later.

Scavenger · May 2, 2017

Even if Brein manages to completely banish piracy in the Netherlands, I'm still not going to support the Dutch home video industry. A lot of titles aren't available on Blu-ray or DVD, or have poor picture/audio quality. Recent examples of bad Dutch blu-ray releases are Brimstone and the Dick Maas directed films. Brimstone is encoded with the outdated VC-1 codec and it shows a lot of compression artifacts. The Dick Maas directed films are in the wrong framerate (25fps) and Dutch Filmworks refuses to fix the problems even though Dick Maas expressed his displeasure.

Most of my Blu-rays are imported. Fuck the Dutch home video industry.

Yaska · May 2, 2017

jorma said:
Private copies aren't illegal.
And the copyright industry actually get reimbursed in the millions for this perfectly legal activity from unwilling hardware makers.
It's garbage, but their lobby powers are strong.

You mean private copies you made out of copies you own are not illegal. Also in many countries, such as in Finland the cassete-fee has been phased out, while it is still active in Sweden afaik.

This decision itself is complete bonkers and practically impossible to enforce, except for the fact that circumventing geoblocks was deemed legal in an abstract way in it.

Streaming from illegal sources had been deemed legal by most copyright parties in all over EU except for most strict scholars. Now we just got a court decision saying it's complete illegal. The only way you would actually end up paying reparations or something else to copyright owners was if you would practically go to copyright owner and confess to them. Just use legal sites and this decision has zero effect on you.

In regards of region restriction on movies and TV-series, there were couple of good topics on NeoGAF on why they exist (one was based on interview on that guy who made the movie Dredd).

In regards of points of member country having legislation that explicitly allows it, it's legal in that country until the country changes their laws to follow the EU directive. Also as this is a ECOJ case, the courts are required to follow them, so it's applicable already.

Syriel · May 2, 2017

Acorn said:
Netflix is shit for movies outside North America. Need Sky movies for recent movies(which I have, aswell as netflix, amazon etc) or to buy everything online/BR/DVD in the UK.

Disagree. Netflix in the US is often the last to get new releases.

Kthulhu said:
Do iTunes and Google Play have bad selections for the EU? In the US they have pretty much everything that is and isn't on Netflix.

Nah. You can buy the content, Lots of folks just want free.

Shiggy said:
So I need to use a VPN now to legally watch Doctor Who on the BBC iPlayer if I don't want to be waiting for new episode for half a year till they are released in Germany?

In reality, I wonder how they would want to find out who's streaming something? I mean, I only do that when the series I want to watch aren't available in my country in a timely manner (Fresh off the Boat, Doctor Who).

"Half a year?"

You mean, "the day after they air?"

Amazon:

Doctor Who:
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B06XS5Y5KH/

Fresh Off the Boat:
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01M7O65KC/

iTunes:

Doctor Who: https://itunes.apple.com/de/tv-season/doctor-who-season-10/id1211884580

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