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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses

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Oh and Putin wants his country to be strong, sovereign, and tries to protect his borders and sea connections in an American World Empire TM. Shame on him, burn him!!!!

Jesus....

Yeah, "protect his borders", by invading smaller countries and taking territory from them.

Take it from someone who lives in a country that has had a government coalition involving the equivalent of Le Pen's FN: The right wingers have absolutely no interest in working for "the little man". All they do is line their pockets, put their people into places of power, and destabilize social structures such as healthcare, education and welfare.

The right wingers may now be handsome, well-spoken and wear expensive suits, but they're still the scum of the earth. Actions speak louder than words.
 

Damerman

Member
Oh look the Cold War bullshit with Russia behind the scene again.
Even if it was true, European countries have more to gain to be allied to our neighbor than your country. Europeans (not UK) and especially french population don't want to be americans, except maybe by wearing Nike shoes, watch blockbuster movies and play EA games.

Aside from closing "welcome to immigrants" borders, you should read and follow french politics, everything from Le Pen program is more left than the french "democrats" program. Actually she is very close to Melenchon on every subjects, except that she is not trying to please everyone and being vague about some sensible stuffs. Just like leaving Europe, she is not planning to do it, she is only planning to give the choice to the population. If the population chooses to leave it, then screw whoever says they are not allowed to decide.

As I said before, the Le Pen party was considered evil in the last 40 years and still carries this image, but except for the shitty jokes from Le Pen-senior, anything he said about immigration and economy matters in the past is what the french Left (center) and Right say today. You only know that when you are old enough to remember and watch/read/follows TV debates, speeches, meetings and programs; not by listening 1 minute flash news or BHL editorials. (I am not saying "fake news")

The vast majority of french normal people have shitty jobs without security ("liberal" french left is trying to match the working policies with your beloved country where you can fire anyone easily, not blaming you, it is not how our society worked), pay (very) high taxes and do not invest money, this is the most logical choice when you are not a parisian hipster bourgeois or a clueless student.

Oh and Putin wants his country to be strong, sovereign, and tries to protect his borders and sea connections in an American World Empire TM. Shame on him, burn him!!!!

Jesus....
yo whos bot is this? Somebody come get they Russian bot.
 

mo60

Member
I think Macron needs to keep on running the campaign he is running looking at how the FN has been bashing him lately. Run a mostly positive camapign while the FN goes on a Macron smear campaign. I'm suggesting pretty much the opposition of what hilary did. Macron can encourage people to vote against the FN while doing this.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Aside from closing "welcome to immigrants" borders, you should read and follow french politics, everything from Le Pen program is more left than the french "democrats" program. Actually she is very close to Melenchon on every subjects, except that she is not trying to please everyone and being vague about some sensible stuffs.

Note that between Melenchon and Le Pen, only one engaged in holocaust revision.

As I said before, the Le Pen party was considered evil in the last 40 years and still carries this image

Because they're a party of xenophobic cranks.

Oh and Putin wants his country to be strong, sovereign, and tries to protect his borders and sea connections in an American World Empire TM. Shame on him, burn him!!!!

He also wants to put gay people in jail, and political opponents, and journalists of any stripe, and his economic management is a disaster, but yes surely what people are against is just how strong he is. I'm jealous of his gains, bro.
 
Putin is also essentially a dictator ffs

Whoa, hey now, we can't legally prove that he murders the hell out of his own people. Now let's stop all this Russia talk and discuss this already prepared essay I wrote about all the evil things America has done in the in the last century.
 

Ac30

Member
I think Macron needs to keep on running the campaign he is running looking at how the FN has been bashing him lately. Run a mostly positive camapign while the FN goes on a Macron smear campaign. I'm suggesting pretty much the opposition of what hilary did. Macron can encourage people to vote against the FN while doing this.

I don't think he's been attacking her directly, has he?

Melenshaun is probably waiting on the outcome of that FI poll on who to endorse...
 

mo60

Member
I don't think he's been attacking her directly, has he?

Melenshaun is probably waiting on the outcome of that FI poll on who to endorse...

The FN has been attacking him directly now. They are calling him mini-hollande, hollande's clone, their heir of hollande and etc.I don't think macron has mentioned her much since last night.
 

Ac30

Member
The FN has been attacking him directly now. They are calling him mini-hollande, hollande's clone, their heir of hollande and etc.I don't think macron has mentioned her much since last night.

He shouldn't bother attacking her as a person, focus on the positive. It lost Hilary the election.

Also are there any pollsters that are particularly reputable, or are Elabe/Opinionway/Harris etc. pretty much always comparable?
 

mo60

Member
He shouldn't bother attacking her as a person, focus on the positive. It lost Hilary the election.

Also are there any pollsters that are particularly reputable, or are Elabe/Opinionway/Harris etc. pretty much always comparable?

Yeah. I agree and I don't think he will focus on Marine Le Pen much. He will definitely criticize nationalism and how it will be a danger for france and how what he plans will be better for france.
 

Mimosa97

Member
Wasn't there also attempts to cast him as gay?
Would that even matter to the French in this day and age?

Not long after being elected, our current president cheated on his girlfriend and was caught sneaking at night on his scooter to meet his mistress.

Reaction of the french public ? His favorable rating slightly rose lol

I don't think there's a people in the world that care less about the sexual life of politicians than us.
 

Alx

Member
I don't think he's been attacking her directly, has he?

Melenshaun is probably waiting on the outcome of that FI poll on who to endorse...

No he isn't attacking her or her voters, he probably won't make the "deplorable" mistake. As a matter of fact he's not even playing the "front républicain/anything but Le Pen" card (the other parties are doing it for him). His spokepersons say they want to convince people that their program is good.
 

Kurtofan

Member
Instead of saying they're idiots, you could think that abstention is for many people a way to express their disagreement with the two remaining programs (waiting for the white vote to be recognized), even if they're against Le Pen. Values are sometimes stronger than you think.

i voted mélenchon in the first round, the second round is a no brainer.
 

mo60

Member
No he isn't attacking her or her voters, he probably won't make the "deplorable" mistake. As a matter of fact he's not even playing the "front républicain/anything but Le Pen" card (the other parties are doing it for him). His spokepersons say they want to convince people that their program is good.

Yeah it's a good route to take while the FN(if they are still connected to her) and maybe Marine Le Pen goes after him and his policies. Never thought Macron would take a super negative route against Le Pen because he's not really that type of candidate.He's going to let le pen sink herself at this point.
 

Alx

Member
Do people really like Macron's program in and of itself here?

Aside from preventing Le Pen from being president and the statu quo reguarding the EU, do some of you think that he'll be able to improve our situation?

Most of it sounds logical/appreciable to me. I don't believe in the magical program that will solve everything and bring wealth and happiness to everybody, but many things in his program sound like going in the right direction, and the rest is "eh, I don't know, why not...".
 
Wasn't there also attempts to cast him as gay?
Would that even matter to the French in this day and age?
To be accurate, that was Nicolas Dhuicq, an openly pro-Russia and anti-gay member of Fillon's party, who reported to Sputnik that Macron was supported by a gay lobby and was gay himself.
I just checked, the same guy said yesterday he'd vote against Macron in the run-off.
 

Alx

Member
The gay rumour turned out funny in the end, when a few days later there was an outrage because he said "the Manif pour Tous supporters were unfairly humiliated" and people were all "oh my god he's homophobe, I knew it !".
 
Mayor threatens to resign after hia town votes for Le Pen

4242017MayorCreditLAvenir.jpg


"It's possible that I will resign because I don't want to devote my life to assholes"

Lmao what a legend!
 

azyless

Member
Just checked my cities' results and I'm pretty happy.
Le Pen comes 4th in my hometown (Macron>Mélenchon>Fillon>Le Pen) and the city where I live for my studies is the 2nd worst score of the FN after Paris among big cities (she's at 6.7%, behind Hamon's 13.8%).
 

Magni

Member
I find it amusing that the candidate of the (((globalist elites))) fighting against the noble defender of French values is literally a Rothschild banker. It's like the lizard people are trolling the alt-right.

Ex-banker*

Media can't say "FN leader" or far-right party leader anymore. The move can only help her and we can assume this means she will make some outreach to the far left. Same idea Trump had in trying to get Bernie's votes. Since her economic policies are mostly on the left, it's will help her contrast her position against Macron's weakest point which is his neoliberal economic policies.

"Marine Le Pen, who desperately wants you to forget she was the president of the FN until last week"

Do people really like Macron's program in and of itself here?

Aside from preventing Le Pen from being president and the statu quo reguarding the EU, do some of you think that he'll be able to improve our situation?

I like it. Strong on Europe. Progressive on social issues. Reasonable on energy/environment (gotta love the insoumis calling bloody murder on Macron with regards to Alstom, while at the same they want to ditch nuclear on day 1). Sizable but not drastic changes on the economy and the public service.

Fillon's program was way too drastic on the economy, and way too conservative on social issues for me. Mélenchon's was a steaming pile of shit with regards to Europe/foreign affairs, too drastic on the economy.

Oh look the Cold War bullshit with Russia behind the scene again.
Even if it was true, European countries have more to gain to be allied to our neighbor than your country. Europeans (not UK) and especially french population don't want to be americans, except maybe by wearing Nike shoes, watch blockbuster movies and play EA games.

Aside from closing "welcome to immigrants" borders, you should read and follow french politics, everything from Le Pen program is more left than the french "democrats" program. Actually she is very close to Melenchon on every subjects, except that she is not trying to please everyone and being vague about some sensible stuffs. Just like leaving Europe, she is not planning to do it, she is only planning to give the choice to the population. If the population chooses to leave it, then screw whoever says they are not allowed to decide.

As I said before, the Le Pen party was considered evil in the last 40 years and still carries this image, but except for the shitty jokes from Le Pen-senior, anything he said about immigration and economy matters in the past is what the french Left (center) and Right say today. You only know that when you are old enough to remember and watch/read/follows TV debates, speeches, meetings and programs; not by listening 1 minute flash news or BHL editorials. (I am not saying "fake news")

The vast majority of french normal people have shitty jobs without security ("liberal" french left is trying to match the working policies with your beloved country where you can fire anyone easily, not blaming you, it is not how our society worked), pay (very) high taxes and do not invest money, this is the most logical choice when you are not a parisian hipster bourgeois or a clueless student.

Oh and Putin wants his country to be strong, sovereign, and tries to protect his borders and sea connections in an American World Empire TM. Shame on him, burn him!!!!

Jesus....

The US not being perfect does not make its enemies good. You should read up on Russia (and not on RT/Sputnik).

So the results for French people residing outside of France came out:

MACRON 40,40%
FILLON 26,32%
MÉLENCHON 15,83%
HAMON 6,87%
LE PEN 6,48%

Not too surprising I guess.

Not surprising. Fillon's score is disappointing, but oh well. Still waiting for a country by country breakdown.
 
Strangely enough, with all the shit going on, it's reassuring to see that hardcore left-leaning people are as stupid as right ones. It's like having a political party card is guaranteed to net you a 15% decrease in IQ.


Personally if Le Pen wins I think it surely will be bad because it will send quite the message, but also because the country won't be able to function with how legislative elections are set up. Oh and also I'd fear for my life with all the extreme right-wingers who would feel liberated and do damage to brown people like what happened post-brexit and post-trump ._.
 

Sinsem

Member
Oh and also I'd fear for my life with all the extreme right-wingers who would feel liberated and do damage to brown people like what happened post-brexit and post-trump ._.

That's the main (and maybe only) reason I'll vote in May.
Macron's politics, I know how to fight.
Le Pen president, well, my sorry white ass will be fine, but I don't want to watch far right nutjobs feeling like they can attack who they want.
 

Oriel

Member
Oh look the Cold War bullshit with Russia behind the scene again.
Even if it was true, European countries have more to gain to be allied to our neighbor than your country. Europeans (not UK) and especially french population don't want to be americans, except maybe by wearing Nike shoes, watch blockbuster movies and play EA games.

Aside from closing "welcome to immigrants" borders, you should read and follow french politics, everything from Le Pen program is more left than the french "democrats" program. Actually she is very close to Melenchon on every subjects, except that she is not trying to please everyone and being vague about some sensible stuffs. Just like leaving Europe, she is not planning to do it, she is only planning to give the choice to the population. If the population chooses to leave it, then screw whoever says they are not allowed to decide.

As I said before, the Le Pen party was considered evil in the last 40 years and still carries this image, but except for the shitty jokes from Le Pen-senior, anything he said about immigration and economy matters in the past is what the french Left (center) and Right say today. You only know that when you are old enough to remember and watch/read/follows TV debates, speeches, meetings and programs; not by listening 1 minute flash news or BHL editorials. (I am not saying "fake news")

The vast majority of french normal people have shitty jobs without security ("liberal" french left is trying to match the working policies with your beloved country where you can fire anyone easily, not blaming you, it is not how our society worked), pay (very) high taxes and do not invest money, this is the most logical choice when you are not a parisian hipster bourgeois or a clueless student.

Oh and Putin wants his country to be strong, sovereign, and tries to protect his borders and sea connections in an American World Empire TM. Shame on him, burn him!!!!

Jesus....

What is this trash?
 

EmiPrime

Member
Haven't you heard? Putin is defending Russia by stealing all its money, killing off all opposition and annexing Crimea. How else could you defend yourself from America TM?

That money he supposedly stole from the Russian people, making him probably the richest man in the world, is actually just resting in his bank account.
 
Oh and Putin wants his country to be strong, sovereign, and tries to protect his borders and sea connections in an American World Empire TM. Shame on him, burn him!!!!

Jesus....
Start (proxy) wars in other countries, take their land, run a worldwide empire with internet fake news, oppress or assassinate the opposition and journalists, run the economy into shit while enriching yourself and your fellas, support the far right movement everywhere.

True leader of the free world.
 

Morokh

Member
Do people really like Macron's program in and of itself here?

It's a very 'reasonable' program which can be viewed as good and bad, he could actually manage to pull most of it, but some would say it lacks ambition.

His biggest issue might be with having a team that actually work together well considering the wide array of the political origins of the people that pledged their support to him.

The context of this election certainly worked in his favor considering his movement originally looked like something to get traction for 2022 but since we're at that point I'm personally quite curious to see how he'll manage should he (fingers crossed) be elected
 

Renae

Member
they rather let the world burn than to be wrong



LOL, we got one.

Nice argumentation.

For the others, I understand your arguments. Think I'll vote Macron.

For the first paragraph, no, that's really stupid. That's like saying that Melenchon got that far only thanks to the PS fucking up.

Don't know what to say more than "Macron already was at 20%+ in the surveys before he revealed his program" to convince you. And yes, Mélenchon got that far also because of the PS fucking up.

And i cant help but wonder about the so called values of these people if it really makes no difference to them whether Macron or Le Pen is elected.

Ecological values maybe ? Neither of the two remaining candidates have a credible project in terms of ecology. Macron is open to renewable energies, but it isn't enough, imo.

Ironic seeing all the melenchonistes who want to abstain when the candidate they supported wanted to make voting obligatory...

I agree, but the idea of making voting obligatory is only relevant if you recognize the white vote, which was also a Mélenchon idea.

Just to know, what was the general consensus on Mélenchon in the USA ?
 

Alx

Member
It's a good thing that they seem well prepared against phishing. Or at least they're aware of it and won't be taken by surprise.
 

dosh

Member

azyless

Member
Ecological values maybe ? Neither of the two remaining candidates have a credible project in terms of ecology. Macron is open to renewable energies, but it isn't enough, imo.
I fail to see how Le Pen's program isn't worse than Macron. As far as I know she doesn't want to do anything about nuclear and I've never even heard her talk about renewable energies, she was also against the COP21 agreement. All I've heard her say was that she wanted a "patriotic ecology" and that's usually when I tune out.
And even if that was the case, allow me to question the priorities of the people who'd rather have a racist homophobic bitch be president instead of Macron's underwhelming but reasonable ecology program.
 

Renae

Member
I fail to see how Le Pen's program isn't worse than Macron. As far as I know she doesn't want to do anything about nuclear and I've never even heard her talk about renewable energies, she was also against the COP21 agreement. All I've heard her say was that she wanted a "patriotic ecology" and that's usually when I tune out.
And even if that was the case, allow me to question the priorities of the people who'd rather have a racist homophobic bitch be president instead of Macron's underwhelming but reasonable ecology program.

Never said that Le Pen's program is better than Macron's (she's a "racist homophobic bitch", I agree). I'm just sad ecology isn't a priority for most of our politicians.
 
Mayor threatens to resign after hia town votes for Le Pen

4242017MayorCreditLAvenir.jpg


"It's possible that I will resign because I don't want to devote my life to assholes"

Lmao what a legend!
That's actually pretty hilarious.

As for abstention, it would be a shame.

I feel like people get way to worked up way too early in elections these days. I mean, at least for the UK & USA, this is the most support I saw in Labour elections and primaries and this made people lose their minds. Labour voters who otherwise would have taken no umbrage to Corbyn are vehement and champing at the bit to remove him and likewise people got so whipped up by Sanders that they couldn't possibly have voted for Clinton because they spent so long demonising her to assist a Bernie win - or they drank that coolaid initially.

Yes, your guy didn't win the first round but the other leaders are not as awful as you've had to postulate for the election cycle well, maybe La Pen is.
 
Haven't you heard? Putin is defending Russia by stealing all its money, killing off all opposition and annexing Crimea. How else could you defend yourself from America TM?

Don't forget South Ossetia, too. Crimea wasn't the first territory the Russians just marched into and annexed. It's just that nobody gives a shit about a country in a region that's generally known to be riddled with conflicts, isn't too close to Western powers (Ukraine borders EU after all) and to top it off has the same name as a really shitty US state.

For the others, I understand your arguments. Think I'll vote Macron.

Please do. Every vote against Le Pen is important. Every white or non-vote can only help Le Pen get closer to victory.
 
Oh look the Cold War bullshit with Russia behind the scene again.
Even if it was true, European countries have more to gain to be allied to our neighbor than your country. Europeans (not UK) and especially french population don't want to be americans, except maybe by wearing Nike shoes, watch blockbuster movies and play EA games.

Aside from closing "welcome to immigrants" borders, you should read and follow french politics, everything from Le Pen program is more left than the french "democrats" program. Actually she is very close to Melenchon on every subjects, except that she is not trying to please everyone and being vague about some sensible stuffs. Just like leaving Europe, she is not planning to do it, she is only planning to give the choice to the population. If the population chooses to leave it, then screw whoever says they are not allowed to decide.

As I said before, the Le Pen party was considered evil in the last 40 years and still carries this image, but except for the shitty jokes from Le Pen-senior, anything he said about immigration and economy matters in the past is what the french Left (center) and Right say today. You only know that when you are old enough to remember and watch/read/follows TV debates, speeches, meetings and programs; not by listening 1 minute flash news or BHL editorials. (I am not saying "fake news")

The vast majority of french normal people have shitty jobs without security ("liberal" french left is trying to match the working policies with your beloved country where you can fire anyone easily, not blaming you, it is not how our society worked), pay (very) high taxes and do not invest money, this is the most logical choice when you are not a parisian hipster bourgeois or a clueless student.

Oh and Putin wants his country to be strong, sovereign, and tries to protect his borders and sea connections in an American World Empire TM. Shame on him, burn him!!!!

Jesus....

So to protect your borders and make your country stong you need to annex parts of other countries, influence foreign elections, put gays into concentration camps, shoot down civilian airplanes and blame it onto the country you're invading right now?

That about it? Because it sounds fucking stupid.
 

Ac30

Member
Nice argumentation.

For the others, I understand your arguments. Think I'll vote Macron.



Don't know what to say more than "Macron already was at 20%+ in the surveys before he revealed his program" to convince you. And yes, Mélenchon got that far also because of the PS fucking up.



Ecological values maybe ? Neither of the two remaining candidates have a credible project in terms of ecology. Macron is open to renewable energies, but it isn't enough, imo.



I agree, but the idea of making voting obligatory is only relevant if you recognize the white vote, which was also a Mélenchon idea.

Just to know, what was the general consensus on Mélenchon in the USA ?

Well Mark Ruffalo, Daniel Glover and some other celebrities endorsed him, and I think quite a few people probably saw him as "French Bernie Sanders".

Oh, and Pamela Anderson, who could forget :p

I just wish he had more reasonable foreign policy proposals and his combatative personality turned me off. His actual core platform I didn't mind much.
 

Magni

Member
Don't know what to say more than "Macron already was at 20%+ in the surveys before he revealed his program" to convince you. And yes, Mélenchon got that far also because of the PS fucking up.

I mean, we knew before his program was released what his general positions were, his program wasn't a surprise. Had his program been a giant pile of shit, he would have dropped.

Ecological values maybe ? Neither of the two remaining candidates have a credible project in terms of ecology. Macron is open to renewable energies, but it isn't enough, imo.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Macron's program on ecology is a step forward. That's better than a step backwards or standing still.

And I'd say Macron's program is more credible than Mélenchon's was (credible in terms of implementation). Less ambitious, sure.

Just to know, what was the general consensus on Mélenchon in the USA ?

None of my American friends have talked about the election. I had one friend last year ask me about it just before the right's primary, so we clearly didn't talk about Mélenchon, but that's it.

In the media, I've seen both comparisons to Sanders, and reminders of his communist/trotskist past.
 
Most of his program is pretty good (ecology, culture, economy, foreign relations...) , outside of the work part, which is pretty liberal (albeit still a lot less liberal than actual liberal countries like the UK for example). Overall, it's mostly following the previous president's footsteps, but more liberal.
Macron also wants to go way further than just statu quo for the EU. He wants to push it a step further (bigger economy governance, pushing for the EU army that the UK was vetoing since years, etc).

Most of it sounds logical/appreciable to me. I don't believe in the magical program that will solve everything and bring wealth and happiness to everybody, but many things in his program sound like going in the right direction, and the rest is "eh, I don't know, why not...".

Ex-banker*
I like it. Strong on Europe. Progressive on social issues. Reasonable on energy/environment (gotta love the insoumis calling bloody murder on Macron with regards to Alstom, while at the same they want to ditch nuclear on day 1). Sizable but not drastic changes on the economy and the public service.

Fillon's program was way too drastic on the economy, and way too conservative on social issues for me. Mélenchon's was a steaming pile of shit with regards to Europe/foreign affairs, too drastic on the economy.
.

It's a very 'reasonable' program which can be viewed as good and bad, he could actually manage to pull most of it, but some would say it lacks ambition.

His biggest issue might be with having a team that actually work together well considering the wide array of the political origins of the people that pledged their support to him.

The context of this election certainly worked in his favor considering his movement originally looked like something to get traction for 2022 but since we're at that point I'm personally quite curious to see how he'll manage should he (fingers crossed) be elected

Thanks for the responses.

I was rereading his program now that he's in the second turn and I would say that I think it's fine as well, some good proposals and nothing too egregious.

But I still remember the "pacte de responsabilité" and I'm afraid he'll keep trying the same strategy to kickstart hires. I'm also wondering if all of that will improve the life of the north east in terms of job prospect.
 
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