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tonysidaway
Member
(09-13-2017, 06:23 PM)
The Radio Times has compiled a list of the most complained-about Doctor Who episodes, and reveals that the Doctor's most effective (if undisclosed) arch enemy may be an Irish TV host.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-...sial-episodes/
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
(09-13-2017, 10:14 PM)
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The former Prime Minister isn't dead! http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-...ead-after-all/
aHebrewMenagerie
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(09-13-2017, 10:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Broken Joystick

The former Prime Minister isn't dead! http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-...ead-after-all/

For some reason, I had thought this meant that the Simm Master was still out doing mischievous things out in the universe lol
JonathanEx
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(09-13-2017, 10:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Broken Joystick

The former Prime Minister isn't dead! http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-...ead-after-all/

I really like his attitude towards it being canon. I SAY SO! IT'S MINE!. You can imagine the glee as he said it.
tonysidaway
Member
(09-14-2017, 01:05 AM)

Originally Posted by JonathanEx

I really like his attitude towards it being canon. I SAY SO! IT'S MINE!. You can imagine the glee as he said it.

There's a lovely point in one of the commentaries to an episode finale, the one in which Captain Jack says farewell to Doctor Who outside the Torchwood HQ in Cardiff. Jack mentions that he was the most handsome guy to come out of his birthplace, the Boeshane Peninsula, and become a Time Agent. In fact, he says, they called him The Face of Boe.

Then he wanders off, and Doctor Who does a comic double-take.

In the commentary, Russell and Julie have a bit of an argument. Russell dismisses it as a bit of fun. But Julie is adamant. He wrote it, she says, so it is canon. No backsies. It's all written up in the Wikipedia article about the character.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_of_Boe
Stallion Dan
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(09-14-2017, 02:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by tonysidaway

The Radio Times has compiled a list of the most complained-about Doctor Who episodes, and reveals that the Doctor's most effective (if undisclosed) arch enemy may be an Irish TV host.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-...sial-episodes/

I remember when new Who premiered, Graham Norton did a live show right before it and introduced Dr Who...but his mic stayed on, quiet like he took it off, but close enough that for several minutes you could hear him talking over the episode.
Quick
(09-14-2017, 03:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Broken Joystick

The former Prime Minister isn't dead! http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-...ead-after-all/

Her showing up and introducing herself all the time is one of my favourite gags during RTD's run.
tonysidaway
Member
(09-14-2017, 04:07 AM)

Originally Posted by Quick

Her showing up and introducing herself all the time is one of my favourite gags during RTD's run.


Isobel Crawley, former Prime Minister.
Platy
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(09-14-2017, 04:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Quick

Her showing up and introducing herself all the time is one of my favourite gags during RTD's run.

It is polite to always introduce yourself when meeting a time travel because you may never know when will be the first time they meet you
EvilRedEye
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(09-15-2017, 12:11 PM)
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Looks like The Adventures of Time and Space cast are doing First Doctor adventures for Big Finish now.
tomtom94
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(09-15-2017, 06:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by EvilRedEye

Looks like The Adventures of Time and Space cast are doing First Doctor adventures for Big Finish now.

Full story here.

Also notable:

And in a Big Finish exclusive, the First Doctor will encounter his greatest foe, the first incarnation of fellow Time Lord, the Master, played by James Dreyfus.

EvilRedEye
Member
(09-15-2017, 06:32 PM)
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I found that interesting. Unless the Master has skipped time tracks or something, that means he burned through his entire set of regenerations relatively quickly - between the First Doctor being pretty old at the time of this set and about a year after the Doctor regenerates into Pertwee.
Dr Zhivago
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(09-15-2017, 10:53 PM)
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It could have been centuries from his perspective. Wibbly wobbly.
tonysidaway
Member
(09-15-2017, 11:17 PM)

Originally Posted by Dr Zhivago

It could have been centuries from his perspective. Wibbly wobbly.

I think it's also fair to point out that the concept of canon is somewhat foreign to Doctor Who.
tomtom94
Member
(09-16-2017, 10:05 AM)
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The Doctor is finally ginger! (Just maybe not the one you were expecting)
8bit
Banned
(09-17-2017, 05:47 PM)
Blader
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(09-20-2017, 08:15 PM)
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It's The Sun so take with a grain of a salt, but here's another report backing up rumors from over the summer that the BBC's next animated release will be a complete Shada:

Tom, 83, completed a story that had to be abandoned 38 years ago.

He recorded final scenes for Shada, written by Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy creator Douglas Adams.

It was meant to be a six-episode tale for Tom’s fourth incarnation of the Doctor in 1979-80.

But production was wrecked by a BBC technicians’ strike and only half was filmed before it was shelved.

Tom and other members of the original cast — including Lalla Ward, 66, as companion Romana — returned for the recording in Uxbridge, West London.

Only their voices will be used alongside animated sequences to replace the unfilmed material.

But that didn’t stop Tom dressing the part.

An insider said: “He wore his original costume, including coat, hat and scarf — and the original K9 was here.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbi...or-who-return/
tomtom94
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(09-21-2017, 06:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Blader

It's The Sun so take with a grain of a salt, but here's another report backing up rumors from over the summer that the BBC's next animated release will be a complete Shada:



https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbi...or-who-return/

I feel like this is probably going to be more "Oh... it's alright" than "Oh my god it's a lost masterpiece" but good to see it finally get finished. A shame neither Adams nor JNT lived to see it.

Also, just did a quick bit of research and assuming Series 11 is going for an autumn release we should know soon who the companion will be. Gillan was revealed May 2009, and series 5 was released April 2010.
Exterminieren
Banned
(09-21-2017, 07:09 PM)
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Series 11 starts filming in November, so I expect the companions to be announced in the next week or two.
Blader
Member
(09-22-2017, 03:29 PM)
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Remembrance of the Daleks
Doctor Who kicked off its 25th anniversary with a Dalek story that quite literally revisits the show's origins. Set in 1963 near Coal Hill School, the Seventh Doctor and Ace revisit the scene of where the First Doctor and co. departed way back when in An Unearthly Child. The set-up is that before the Doctor had first left all those years ago, he was actually hiding a secret Time Lord weapon, the Hand of Omega, in the area to keep it away from the Daleks. A Dalek civil war erupts in the area, as two factions fight over the weapon with the Doctor, Ace, and not-UNIT caught in the middle.

This is kind of a neat premise for an anniversary story, tying into the very first episode of the series and retconning an explanation for just what the Doctor was doing in that scrap yard all those years ago. And there are some other cute callbacks, like the Doctor referencing past serials like The Dalek Invasion of Earth and Genesis of the Daleks, with the most meta reference being a TV set that announces the premiere of a brand new BBC science fiction show named Doct- before Ace shuts it off.

I like the idea, but the problem is that the setting and anniversary connections end up undermining the logic of the story. For one thing, there is no convincing attempt to make it look like the 1960s; it's still very clearly 80s England. But the main plot point of the serial, the Doctor hiding the Hand of Omega at 76 Totter's Lane as a lure for the Daleks, just doesn't really make any sense. One of the main reasons being, the Doctor didn't even know the Daleks then! On top of that, the Doctor's plan of letting the Daleks capture a sabotaged Hand of Omega and end up destroying themselves and Skaro is a really convoluted, roundabout plot that feels like it was being made up on the fly. It just doesn't track logically for me.

This is my first Seventh Doctor serial and I'm not really sure what to make of him. I know that McCoy's Doctor has a reputation for being a darker and more calculating Time Lord than past versions, and there is definitely some of that here. But there's something inherently goofy about this Doctor that clashes with that dark mastermind persona, and I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's the aesthetic of the show? Which, even by Doctor Who standards, is looking (and sounding) really cheap at this point. Or maybe it's McCoy's performance? I did not really like Colin Baker's Doctor but I thought he did a good job of playing the character that was written for him. McCoy, on the other hand, I don't think is playing a good job of playing the Doctor that was written for him. There's something off about his performance that, in this first impression, feels to me mostly just like bad acting more than anything else. But this is still early days for him, so maybe he settles more comfortably into the role later on.

On the other hand, I did really enjoy Ace. She's one of my favorite of the classic companions I've seen so far. It's not just the obvious hitting-a-Dalek-with-a-baseball-bat stuff, but her personality and demeanor in general that strikes a really good balancing act between tough and likable. She's likable because she's tough, and independent, and doesn't really take any shit, but not in an obnoxious or gruff way (like, say, the Sixth Doctor). Even if the writing sometimes lets her down, Sophie Aldred does a great job in this role. And I kinda love the way she refers to the Doctor as Professor.

So that's the end of the TV serials for my brief, sampling-all-Doctors classic Who run. Next up: the (in)famous McGann tv movie.
Ignatz Mouse
Vote with your $$$
(09-22-2017, 03:41 PM)
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The McGann movie isn't really bad. It's chief sins are a huge departure in tone and style (it's American-style TV action) and the big reveal about the Doctor's past. Oh, and the dumb way the 7th goes out.

Okay, maybe it is bad. But it's pretty watchable and Eric Roberts chews enormous amounts of scenery. McGann is also pretty good in it, and it's not surprising he's even better in Big Finish.
tonysidaway
Member
(09-22-2017, 04:13 PM)

Originally Posted by Blader

This is my first Seventh Doctor serial and I'm not really sure what to make of him. I know that McCoy's Doctor has a reputation for being a darker and more calculating Time Lord than past versions, and there is definitely some of that here. But there's something inherently goofy about this Doctor that clashes with that dark mastermind persona, and I can't quite put my finger on it.

Kent-Smith (McCoy) is essentially a brilliant clown who gets by as an actor. He started with Ken Campbell where he played a character called Sylveste McCoy, and later adopted that character name as a stage name. It was a bold and risky step to cast him as Doctor Who. It worked for me.
Ashodin
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(09-22-2017, 04:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ignatz Mouse

The McGann movie isn't really bad. It's chief sins are a huge departure in tone and style (it's American-style TV action) and the big reveal about the Doctor's past. Oh, and the dumb way the 7th goes out.

Okay, maybe it is bad. But it's pretty watchable and Eric Roberts chews enormous amounts of scenery. McGann is also pretty good in it, and it's not surprising he's even better in Big Finish.

McGann kicks ass in The Night of the Doctor. Oh what we could have gotten :(
Ignatz Mouse
Vote with your $$$
(09-22-2017, 04:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ashodin

McGann kicks ass in The Night of the Doctor. Oh what we could have gotten :(

Loved him there, loved him in the few Big Finishes I've heard, and he's the best thing in the TV movie except maybe the Master's outfit at the end. Loved that.
acheron_xl
Banned
(09-22-2017, 05:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ignatz Mouse

The McGann movie isn't really bad. It's chief sins are a huge departure in tone and style (it's American-style TV action) and the big reveal about the Doctor's past. Oh, and the dumb way the 7th goes out.

Okay, maybe it is bad. But it's pretty watchable and Eric Roberts chews enormous amounts of scenery. McGann is also pretty good in it, and it's not surprising he's even better in Big Finish.

The costumes and sets in the movie are amazing. Best Timelord robe ever.
Blader
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(09-22-2017, 05:49 PM)
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What little I've seen of the movie looks exactly what I remember 1996 Fox tv productions looking like.
EvilRedEye
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(09-22-2017, 08:52 PM)
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Although the TV movie will always be somewhat wonky, it's underrated now as some of the stuff that felt uncomfortable and disruptive at the time, like errr... fancy sets and kissing, are just par for the course now.
tomtom94
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(09-23-2017, 12:55 PM)
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Digital Spy have ranked every single episode of NuWho. Note that it's a picture gallery so probably not good for mobiles.

Bottom 10:
The Rings of Ak'haten
The Long Game
Hungry Earth / Cold Blood
Daleks in Manhattan / Evolution of the Daleks
Boom Town
Fear Her
Love and Monsters
In The Forest of the Night
Aliens of London / World War 3
The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe


Top 10:
Stolen Earth / Journey's End
Army of Ghosts / Doomsday
Impossible Planet / Satan Pit
Vincent and the Doctor
Eleventh Hour
Human Nature / Family of Blood
Empty Child / The Doctor Dances
Midnight
Blink
The Girl in the Fireplace


I didn't actually read most of the middle because fuck having a 120-picture picture gallery. I have some... disagreements about that bottom 10 as well.
Exterminieren
Banned
(09-23-2017, 01:06 PM)
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AoL, Boom Town and Love and Monsters in the bottom 10? Trash.
M.Bluth
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(09-23-2017, 01:14 PM)
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Forget the top and bottom 10's, that whole list is a sad mess.
spunodi
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(09-23-2017, 01:16 PM)
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A Good Man Goes To War has no business being that low. I LOVE that episode.

Too high rankings for Gatiss episodes too. (I like The Crimson Horror though, and yet that's among the lowest.)
Ceej
Junior Member
(09-23-2017, 05:12 PM)
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Not a single Capaldi episode in the top 10? wtf?
Stallion Dan
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(09-23-2017, 06:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ceej

Not a single Capaldi episode in the top 10? wtf?

He is a good Doctor, but the stories have been mostly bad for several seasons stretching far into Smith's run.
Ceej
Junior Member
(09-23-2017, 06:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

He is a good Doctor, but the stories have been mostly bad for several seasons stretching far into Smith's run.

You'd find a lot of people willing to argue that, because especially when they were good, they were GOOD. Seriously I feel like almost anyone would agree even if you hate the era as a whole, that Heaven Sent should be there.
tonysidaway
Member
(09-23-2017, 06:37 PM)
This list by DigitalSpy is obviously not to be taken seriously, for the _a priori_ reason that it appears to be based on nothing more than the personal opinion of its compilers. The fact that it's quite bonkers in places is also relevant here.
tomtom94
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(09-23-2017, 06:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by tonysidaway

This list by DigitalSpy is obviously not to be taken seriously, for the _a priori_ reason that it appears to be based on nothing more than the personal opinion of its compilers.

I mean I think the list is a bit rubbish but I'm curious to know how else you're supposed to compile a list.
acheron_xl
Banned
(09-23-2017, 06:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by tonysidaway

This list by DigitalSpy is obviously not to be taken seriously, for the _a priori_ reason that it appears to be based on nothing more than the personal opinion of its compilers. The fact that it's quite bonkers in places is also relevant here.

Those are the best lists, though! What's the use of compiling a pile of doctrinaire consensus? A list that represents a distinct viewpoint is much more interesting.
tonysidaway
Member
(09-23-2017, 06:59 PM)

Originally Posted by tomtom94

I mean I think the list is a bit rubbish but I'm curious to know how else you're supposed to compile a list.

Poll reviewers, poll the public, or perhaps even analyze discussions in NeoGAF off-topic forums. A personal opinion by a single noted critic or very prominent fan might be worth reading, and of course we'd all love to hear Russell's and Steven's favourite episodes.

I'm pretty sure I don't care much what a DigitalSpy writer about whom I know nothing thinks.
Stallion Dan
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(09-23-2017, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ceej

You'd find a lot of people willing to argue that, because especially when they were good, they were GOOD. Seriously I feel like almost anyone would agree even if you hate the era as a whole, that Heaven Sent should be there.

I think that episode thinks it is more clever than it really is, as it breaks its own rules in order to work. So it doesn't work, leaving the entire thing weakened.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees this.
tonysidaway
Member
(09-23-2017, 08:06 PM)

Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

I think that episode thinks it is more clever than it really is.

Whatever. It's very widely acclaimed.
Ceej
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(09-23-2017, 08:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

I think that episode thinks it is more clever than it really is, as it breaks its own rules in order to work. So it doesn't work, leaving the entire thing weakened.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees this.


The acclaim has nothing to do with the outer story/twist, it's just a framework for the thematic and emotional components which were beautifully presented, very well performed by Capaldi and connected deeply with a lot of people.
Stallion Dan
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(09-23-2017, 08:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ceej

The acclaim has nothing to do with the outer story/twist, it's just a framework for the thematic and emotional components which were beautifully presented, very well performed by Capaldi and connected deeply with a lot of people.

But if I'm rating episodes I'm not gonna rate the one with a broken story above others that actually work.
tonysidaway
Member
(09-23-2017, 09:25 PM)
I didn't know John Barrowman writes a Torchwood comic with his sister, but he's announced a new character, Sladen, in honour of Elisabeth Sladen.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/09...rchwood-comic/
tonysidaway
Member
(09-24-2017, 02:41 AM)

Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

But if I'm rating episodes I'm not gonna rate the one with a broken story above others that actually work.

I am probably not the only person to be very tired of seeing people determine that some piece of fiction somehow breaks some arbitrary rule and is therefore a broken story. You do what you do, though.
Ceej
Junior Member
(09-24-2017, 05:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

But if I'm rating episodes I'm not gonna rate the one with a broken story above others that actually work.

It's called science fiction for a reason. Suspension of disbelief is basically required, and while a truly bad story will topple that line for sure, if you disqualify everything that worked in a story (especially something that is heavily thematic) based on some arbitrary standard, you're bound to be disappointed. You can nitpick almost any story to death and find some kind of required gap in logic that makes the story work.

Maybe it's what you want, but I'd rather have an ambitious story with an interesting angle, incredible audiovisual presentation, and something to say rather than something that sticks within a certain boundary *shrug*
Horsefly
Junior Member
(09-24-2017, 09:13 AM)
Ooo goody, lists.....

Anyway, Iíll bite! How does Heaven Sent break itís own rules?
Stallion Dan
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(09-24-2017, 08:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by tonysidaway

I am probably not the only person to be very tired of seeing people determine that some piece of fiction somehow breaks some arbitrary rule and is therefore a broken story. You do what you do, though.

It's not an arbitrary rule, it is the entire point of the episode, as set up by the episode itself. And it breaks its own rules, making the entire idea a failed one.

Unless you think even fiction shouldn't follow it's own established rules, in which case The Doctor growing a pair of wings out of thin air and just flying out the prison would be fine.

Originally Posted by Horsefly

Anyway, Iíll bite! How does Heaven Sent break itís own rules?

The prison is supposed to reset over time, this is made very clear and shown with stuff like breaking the window, except it only resets when it makes a point of the Doctor repeating actions to show the loop, meanwhile there are numerous things that didn't reset because the episode used them for mystery, the Room 12 clues, missing slab, skulls, digging, bird message, painting of Clara etc.

The first ever Doctor in the prison would have found no clothes either after jumping into the water, so presumably would have needed take them off and ran about naked, though really they should have reset with the room.

The biggest problem is the entire point of the resurrection loop is chipping away at the wall, but that only works by yet again breaking the reset rule and not resetting.


Time loop episodes aren't new to sci-fi, but they've been done far better without so many blatant plot holes.
Last edited by Stallion Dan; 09-24-2017 at 08:54 PM.
mjc
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(09-24-2017, 08:36 PM)
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List is invalid because Fear Her and Love and Monsters aren't tied for worst episodes ever.
tonysidaway
Member
(09-24-2017, 08:55 PM)

Originally Posted by Stallion Dan

It's not an arbitrary rule, it is the entire point of the episode, as set up by the episode itself. And it breaks its own rules, making the entire idea a failed one.

I must have missed where you pointed out which particular internal rule was broken. Not being sarcastic, it happens. I'll go back and take a closer look.

Edit: I can't find it even on advanced search. Any chance of a pointer or a recap?
Last edited by tonysidaway; 09-25-2017 at 01:21 PM.
tomtom94
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(09-25-2017, 12:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by mjc

List is invalid because Fear Her and Love and Monsters aren't tied for worst episodes ever.

I stand by that Love and Monsters deserves credit for at least trying. It faceplants in the last 15 minutes, but the first two-thirds is great fun.


Whereas Fear Her is just...not good. Even accounting for the fact they had no budget and an uncooperative cat.

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