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Moonlight
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(09-20-2017, 06:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bonen no Max'd

what is EOV I'm drawing a blank

Etrian Odyssey 5
PK Gaming
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(09-20-2017, 06:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moonlight

Etrian Odyssey 5

Also known as best RPG on the 3DS.
Bonen no Max'd
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(09-20-2017, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by PK Gaming

Also known as best RPG on the 3DS.

gross
CazTGG
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(09-20-2017, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by PK Gaming

Also known as best RPG on the 3DS.

You misspelled "Apocalypse".
PK Gaming
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(09-20-2017, 08:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bonen no Max'd

gross

I agree, the fact that you haven't played any of the games is very gross.

Originally Posted by CazTGG

You misspelled "Apocalypse".

Apocalypse is definitely up there. Great game all around.
Technoweirdo
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(09-23-2017, 05:57 PM)
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Villager: There's no shops for the next couple of chapters, so you should stock up on all the Steel you can. Dropping enemies below half health in one round -- let alone ORKO'ing them -- can be a struggle without strong weapons or super-strong units.
Me: *Proceeds to buy all the Steel*
Me: *Proceeds to never use Steel because of all the dragons requiring Wyrmlayers and Dragonpikes to kill in a reasonable amount of time*
Me: *Proceeds to get even more Steel because of all the recruits out in the middle of nowhere packing Steel*

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

-

Nicer things:
+ Surprisingly sufferable desert chapter.
+ Drill Grounds: It's like the arena, but you always lose money, creating an actual trade-off unlike the arena which is pretty much all benefits for you. Helps low-level units get up to speed quickly or sneak an extra level or two in for a high-level one, and it's available for most of the game.
+ The one chapter early on there's an arena to abuse is hard to abuse when you're being hunted down by high-level enemies. I don't know about the chapter I'm currently on, but I'm hoping there's anti-arena abuse measures in place there too.
theprodigy
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(09-23-2017, 09:21 PM)
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you forgot rigging good level ups in Drill Grounds (which is semi-fixed too so you can't go ham with perfect levels or something)
Nohar
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(09-23-2017, 10:23 PM)
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So, I want to play a new game, and I figured that I could buy Echoes. However, I'm still unsure, as this game seems to have boring maps and Celica (gorgeous character design; very, very dumb if the spoilers I read about her are right). And after Fates, I am not sure I can deal with profoundly stupid characters and bad writing anymore (and lolicon-y outfits: Nowi is still giving me nightmares). Really, Fates may have stellar gameplay, but the writing effectively killed my interest in the game halfway through my Conquest playthrough (and from what I saw/read about some of the explanations/plot twists of the Revelations chapters... The less said, the better).

So, now that the game has been released for a while, what are your impressions? How does the game hold up compared to the previous titles?
Firemind
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(09-23-2017, 10:24 PM)
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Get FE7
Nohar
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(09-23-2017, 10:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Firemind

Get FE7

It was my first Fire Emblem, and it is still my favorite episode, despite being too easy on all playthroughs but Hector Hard, and lacking several interesting mechanics introduced before and after it.
NeonZ
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(09-23-2017, 11:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nohar

So, I want to play a new game, and I figured that I could buy Echoes. However, I'm still unsure, as this game seems to have boring maps and Celica (gorgeous character design; very, very dumb if the spoilers I read about her are right). And after Fates, I am not sure I can deal with profoundly stupid characters and bad writing anymore (and lolicon-y outfits: Nowi is still giving me nightmares). Really, Fates may have stellar gameplay, but the writing effectively killed my interest in the game halfway through my Conquest playthrough (and from what I saw/read about some of the explanations/plot twists of the Revelations chapters... The less said, the better).

So, now that the game has been released for a while, what are your impressions? How does the game hold up compared to the previous titles?

As far as the story goes Celica only really becomes stupid in chapter 4 and a bit of 5, and you still have Alm's side, which just takes a larger presence in those chapters. In fact, part of Celica's stupidity happens here because of some of the changes to the story of Alm's side here in order to make him look better. It's not something present through the entire game.

The maps are pretty bad though. Somehow the pacing of the game initially goes faster than Gaiden in spite of the same maps being kept, but near end game I thought things were getting just as slow and tedious as in the original.
Technoweirdo
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(09-24-2017, 01:02 AM)
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Re: Echoes
The only thing I'll say is that if you're gonna play it, play on Normal.

Originally Posted by theprodigy

you forgot rigging good level ups in Drill Grounds (which is semi-fixed too so you can't go ham with perfect levels or something)

That too. I'm just a bit attached to playing the odds. :p It usually works out. Usually...
Golnei
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(09-24-2017, 01:15 AM)
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I'd advise playing it on Hard - especially with the turnwheel, it's really not particularly difficult or frustrating; falling in line with Awakening and Birthright's hard modes. It can lead to later maps taking a little longer, but I didn't find that to be particularly annoying - however, that might be worth taking into consideration if it's something that might annoy you.
Nohar
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(09-24-2017, 02:17 PM)
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Well, I got the game. Time to see how good the game is, despite its flaws.

Worst case scenario, it will make me enjoy Birthright/Conquest more!

... Not happening.

Edit; Well, the intro movie and its music are pretty good! That's a nice intro.
Music so far is a pleasure to my ears. Completely forgot that this game doesn't have weapon triangle. It feels very odd for that reason.
Last edited by Nohar; 09-24-2017 at 03:48 PM.
Lord of Ostia
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(09-24-2017, 05:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nohar

Well, I got the game. Time to see how good the game is, despite its flaws.

Worst case scenario, it will make me enjoy Birthright/Conquest more!

... Not happening.

Edit; Well, the intro movie and its music are pretty good! That's a nice intro.
Music so far is a pleasure to my ears. Completely forgot that this game doesn't have weapon triangle. It feels very odd for that reason.

It has the best presentation of any FE game, from the battle animations to the art, the music, the voice acting, it's all pretty incredible. The map designs are pretty bad, but some of them can still be interesting because they are so wonky. Localization is fantastic, and the cast is small but almost all of them are great characters. Story has its flaws but it's much better than Fates or Awakening. The dungeons are a nice change of pace, and the weapon arts are a cool addition.

Overall Echoes is really great, probably my favorite of the 3DS entries, though I still have a soft spot for Awakening despite its flaws. Definitely doesn't reach the gameplay and map design highs of Conquest, but the characters and writing are just so much better that overall I prefer Echoes.
Rutger
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(09-24-2017, 05:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nohar

Well, I got the game. Time to see how good the game is, despite its flaws.

Worst case scenario, it will make me enjoy Birthright/Conquest more!

... Not happening.

Edit; Well, the intro movie and its music are pretty good! That's a nice intro.
Music so far is a pleasure to my ears. Completely forgot that this game doesn't have weapon triangle. It feels very odd for that reason.

The music is easily the best thing about Echoes(followed by its art).

I can only play it in short bursts with those maps though, so I still haven't finished it. Sounds like you care more about the story and its characters than the gameplay, so you'll probably enjoy it more than Fates even with its flaws.
theprodigy
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(09-24-2017, 06:48 PM)
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Totally 100% objective 3DS game ranking: Conquest>Awakening>Echoes>Birthright>Revelation.

*ducks*
Nohar
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(09-24-2017, 06:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rutger

The music is easily the best thing about Echoes(followed by its art).

I can only play it in short bursts with those maps though, so I still haven't finished it. Sounds like you care more about the story and its characters than the gameplay, so you'll probably enjoy it more than Fates even with its flaws.

Not quite. Gameplay and story are both very important to me.

I can deal with a bad gameplay if the story is endearing enough to make me want to continue, although I will probably not play the game again, because of said gameplay. Latest example would be Final Fantasy XII TZA (the game is boring to play, plain and simple).

I can deal with a bad story if the gameplay makes the game enjoyable to play (I can replay a game with pleasure if the story is serviceable and the gameplay is great), although I draw a line at badly handled stories full of asspulls, badly executed tropes, riddled with plot holes and Deus Ex Machina. Fates has stellar gameplay, but how they handled the story effectively killed my interest in the game.

As far as I can tell, Echoes will fall into the first category: good story (the presentation is indeed fantastic), but poor gameplay (this is turning very quickly into a very boring grind-fest, and the game is devoid of what made me interested in the series: interesting maps and interesting mechanics).

I will certainly finish that game, but once I'm done I'll probably sell it and never look back.

Back to the game proper: is it me or are the growth rates atrocious? Maybe I've been spoiled by recent FE titles, but man, those single digit level ups are kind of a letdown. As for promotions: Villagers at level 10, and everyone else as soon as the promotion is available?

In any case, I wasn't expecting that. Turns out this game may make me enjoy Fates much more after all is said and done.
Last edited by Nohar; 09-24-2017 at 07:26 PM. Reason: typo
Apenheul
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(09-24-2017, 07:03 PM)
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I really liked the music and art of Shadows of Valentia, but gameplay-wise it's my least favorite in the series, I even enjoyed Shadow Dragon more. But it's still a Fire Emblem game and although some games in the series are better than others I can't say that there are any bad Fire Emblem games. At times I just don't understand how people can feel so strongly against certain entries while claiming to be a Fire Emblem fan.
Moonlight
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(09-24-2017, 07:12 PM)
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FE Echoes is easily one the worst FE games I've ever played, and probably one of the most disappointing things I've played in general because it could've been a much better game than it was if it wasn't dedicated to slavishly recreating a game that was bad 25 years ago.
Last edited by Moonlight; 09-24-2017 at 07:20 PM.
NeonZ
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(09-24-2017, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nohar

Back to the game proper: is it me or are the growth rates atrocious? Maybe I've been spoiled by recent FE titles, but man, those single digit level ups are kind of a letdown. As for promotions: Villagers at level 10, and everyone else as soon as the promotion is available?

Yeah, they're low, however promotions here work differently. They raise the stats of the units of the base level of the new class. So, you can promote most units as soon as possible, since most won't even reach the base of their new classes anyway unless you grind a lot. You can grind them a bit if they're getting levels very quickly I guess. But otherwise there's no need for that.

This also means you can choose some characters' classes based on their weakest stats (like making a slow villager a mercenary in order to reduce speed issues since promotion will give that stat a big boost every time).
Last edited by NeonZ; 09-24-2017 at 07:23 PM.
Bonen no Max'd
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(09-24-2017, 07:29 PM)
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I liked Echoes, but it's easily the second worst Fire Emblem I've played after Revelation.

It's still mind blowing to me that the first fully voice acted Fire Emblem was a remake of Gaiden.
theprodigy
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(09-24-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nohar

As for promotions: Villagers at level 10, and everyone else as soon as the promotion is available?

promote everybody ASAP including Villagers
Erheller
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(09-24-2017, 08:56 PM)

Originally Posted by Apenheul

I really liked the music and art of Shadows of Valentia, but gameplay-wise it's my least favorite in the series, I even enjoyed Shadow Dragon more. But it's still a Fire Emblem game and although some games in the series are better than others I can't say that there are any bad Fire Emblem games. At times I just don't understand how people can feel so strongly against certain entries while claiming to be a Fire Emblem fan.

You can not like certain entries and still be a Fire Emblem fan. I think most Final Fantasy fans have at least one FF game that they don't like. Doesn't mean that they can't like the series overall.

For me:
The original Gaiden is pretty bad. It's like Echoes (so bad gameplay), but without the pretty presentation. Revelation is also bad.

The rest of the series goes from 'decent' to 'amazing' (except I haven't played FE1 so I can't comment on that).
Nohar
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(09-24-2017, 09:00 PM)
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Reached chapter 2. Yup, gameplay is lacking, making all the attention given to the rest all the more glaring.

I want a new Fire Emblem with that level of polish (art, music, voice acting, battle animations, story-telling) and a gameplay similar to Conquest (ie. fantastic maps, weapon triangle, cool classes and skills). It actually baffles me they decided to keep such an antiquated gameplay and bland maps for this game. It is like looking at a bicameral beast.

Just imagine Genealogy of the Holy War remade with that level of polish and gameplay tweaks to make it more modern. That would be a remake most welcomed.

EDIT: I just met my first Cantor. On Hard Mode.
Make. It. Stop. Holy guacamole. I think I may start again in Normal mode. If all battles must drag on like this, I'll take the easier route, thank you.
Last edited by Nohar; 09-24-2017 at 10:31 PM.
Moonlight
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(09-24-2017, 11:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nohar


EDIT: I just met my first Cantor. On Hard Mode.
Make. It. Stop. Holy guacamole. I think I may start again in Normal mode. If all battles must drag on like this, I'll take the easier route, thank you.

things don't get better once you hit land
Draxal
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(09-25-2017, 12:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nohar

Reached chapter 2. Yup, gameplay is lacking, making all the attention given to the rest all the more glaring.

I want a new Fire Emblem with that level of polish (art, music, voice acting, battle animations, story-telling) and a gameplay similar to Conquest (ie. fantastic maps, weapon triangle, cool classes and skills). It actually baffles me they decided to keep such an antiquated gameplay and bland maps for this game. It is like looking at a bicameral beast.

Just imagine Genealogy of the Holy War remade with that level of polish and gameplay tweaks to make it more modern. That would be a remake most welcomed.

EDIT: I just met my first Cantor. On Hard Mode.
Make. It. Stop. Holy guacamole. I think I may start again in Normal mode. If all battles must drag on like this, I'll take the easier route, thank you.

You must meet the fun of the desert fort!
Lynx_7
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(09-25-2017, 12:55 AM)
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I don't disagree with any of you in regards to Echoes' gameplay, but I thought the presentation and novelty was enough to carry the experience the whole way through. Conquest is the better game by far, but Echoes is closer to my ideal of what a FE title should "feel" like. I also enjoyed it a lot more than Birthright (which is inoffensive but rather boring) and Revelations (which is a mess), even if they did have superior maps. It's an uneven experience, but one I found worthwhile nonetheless.
Rutger
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(09-25-2017, 01:42 AM)
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The 3DS games were rough in many ways, but some interesting progress has been made. A shame Echoes couldn't also have fantastic gameplay to go with its presentation, but I'm hopeful that IS can take the best from it and Conquest going into FE Switch.

I might not like its gameplay, but I find it hard to dislike Echoes. I've even found myself playing other FE games more than I was before its release, it somehow fixed the damage FE4, FE11, and FE12 not being localized did even though better games like Conquest and Awakening didn't. There is certainly a charm to Echoes.
Last edited by Rutger; 09-25-2017 at 01:46 AM.
spiritfox
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(09-25-2017, 02:18 AM)
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Heroes is the best modern Fire Emblem game.
theprodigy
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(09-25-2017, 02:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by spiritfox

Heroes is the best modern Fire Emblem game.

At the very least it's definitely better than that other 2017 FE crossover game......
Busaiku
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(09-25-2017, 02:49 AM)
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How is Shadows of Valentia a crossover.
spiritfox
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(09-25-2017, 02:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Busaiku

How is Shadows of Valentia a crossover.

I think he meant Warriors.
Rutger
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(09-25-2017, 03:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by spiritfox

Heroes is the best modern Fire Emblem game.

Nah, it's too far removed with its gameplay, it barely feels like a FE game.
It's a fun look at what FE might be like as a puzzle game though.
mdubs
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(09-25-2017, 03:42 AM)
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I would like it if FE16 returned the focus on actually recruiting characters the old school way. Awakening and Fates just give you the characters without any of the classic “get the cleric to talk to the myrmidon” moments. I replayed Sacred Stones a few months ago and remembered what I’ve been missing.

Also, we need a return to hype recruitment themes.
Draxal
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(09-25-2017, 03:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by mdubs

I would like it if FE16 returned the focus on actually recruiting characters the old school way. Awakening and Fates just give you the characters without any of the classic “get the cleric to talk to the myrmidon” moments. I replayed Sacred Stones a few months ago and remembered what I’ve been missing.

Also, we need a return to hype recruitment themes.

Awakening had a couple (gaius/tharja for the enemy side iirc). Rev only had the two on one map, but yeah definitely need more of that.

The the one other thing that I didn't like about Echoes is that the story additions made Celica dumber.

I think I just get grumpier when they make the older finished stories with stuff like Kris.
Last edited by Draxal; 09-25-2017 at 03:55 AM.
spiritfox
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(09-25-2017, 03:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Draxal

Awakening had a couple (gaius/tharja for the enemy side iirc). Rev only had the two on one map, but yeah definitely need more of that.

The the one other thing that I didn't like about Echoes is that the story additions made Celica dumber.

I think I just get grumpier when they make the older finished stories with stuff like Kris.

I think that's my main beef with Echoes. They wanted to keep the shitty maps and bullshit enemies, but they're willing to change the story to add a pointless new character and make the main female lord dumber. Add that to the already existing story with all the captured ladies and it feels like the entire story is full of women who need to be saved.
NeonZ
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(09-25-2017, 04:08 AM)
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Fates technically had the capturable bosses too (and just captures in general). Although they weren't fully featured characters some of them could be useful units in Conquest.
kuroneko0509
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(09-25-2017, 04:09 AM)
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can't wait for changed stories in jugdral remake... if it ends up exist anyway
theprodigy
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(09-25-2017, 04:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Busaiku

How is Shadows of Valentia a crossover.

Yes I definitely meant Shadows of Valentia when I said that /s

(for the record I do prefer Heroes to SoV)
Erheller
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(09-25-2017, 04:14 AM)

Originally Posted by kuroneko0509

can't wait for changed stories in jugdral remake... if it ends up exist anyway

Oifey is a customizable avatar and everybody is trying to get in his pants

He also has ALL OF THE HOLY BLOOD because why not
Rutger
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(09-25-2017, 04:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by kuroneko0509

can't wait for changed stories in jugdral remake... if it ends up exist anyway

The game could really benefit from fleshing out what happens to many characters in-between the two generations honestly.
And maybe also make Julius not an awful villain.
Busaiku
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(09-25-2017, 05:16 AM)
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Say what you will about the roster, but Fire Emblem Warriors still looks like a solid entry.
Maybe it'll end up being lame, but it's too early to call.
Nohar
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(09-25-2017, 05:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Busaiku

Say what you will about the roster, but Fire Emblem Warriors still looks like a solid entry.
Maybe it'll end up being lame, but it's too early to call.

The roster is composed by, at least, 6 pairs of character who share the same moveset with eachother (Marth and Celica, Chrom and Lucina, Robin and Valigar, Caeda and Cordelia, Leo and Elise, Takumi and Sakura), besides special attacks. This rubs me the wrong way, as I find this pretty lazy from Koei, especially after Hyrule Warriors which had characters which all felt unique to play.

I'll wait for more information before deciding if I pick that one, but I'm nonplussed so far, despite them adding Lyn as a playable character (and I was quite happy when I learned she was in). HW had a very small number of maps, and I'd like to see that fixed.
Last edited by Nohar; 09-25-2017 at 05:26 AM.
Josephl64
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(09-25-2017, 06:13 AM)
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I'm looking forwards to the game, it looks great.

Just 3 more days before it ships out~
CazTGG
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(09-25-2017, 08:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by kuroneko0509

can't wait for changed stories in jugdral remake... if it ends up exist anyway

Good, because there's a lot about Seisen No Keifu's story and characters that should changed for the better. Like getting rid of the incest.
PK Gaming
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(09-25-2017, 05:06 PM)
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Random thought

Rajaion's fate in PoR is one of the few things in the franchise to make me viscerally upset, in a good way.
Nohar
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(09-25-2017, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by PK Gaming

Random thought

Rajaion's fate in PoR is one of the few things in the franchise to make me viscerally upset, in a good way.

For me, emotionally, I've been very invested in The Blazing Blade's story. Between Lyn's story (her quest to save her grandfather and reconnect with what's left of her family), Leila's death (brutal and unexpected at this stage, showcasing how deadly Jaffar can be, and how her death wrecked Matthew), Elbert, Eliwood's father death (a very touching moment as he dies in his son's arms), Zephiel's awful family life (I was enraged by how petty his father was, same for his mother - say what you want about Eliwood as an unit, but as a character him telling her off was fantastic ; all things considered, they are basically Robert and Cersei Baratheon with a few tweaks), Ninian's death (pretty sad under normal circumstances - add to that an A support between her and Eliwood, and the scene gets additional scenes and an unique and even sadder music), Hector loses his brother to the same illness that took his parents, Harken's plight (after losing his mens, he is so broken he effectively becomes a death seeker)... Even minor characters such as Serra becomes quite interesting if you take the time to unlock their support conversations. On that note, Renault has a lot of interesting background to reveal if one unlocks his supports. Athos's last stand was quite touching.
And, well, you can unlock the truth behind Nergal's identity by playing Hector's chapters and all the paralogues. Spoiler alert: He is actually Nils and Ninian's father, and his desires to find them again got warped by the magic he used in that process, resulting in him becoming a shadow of the man he once was and forgetting everything about what led him to pursue his researchs in the first place: to be reunited with his children.

And since this game is a prequel to the Binding Blade, you know from the start that everyone is doomed by canon. Poor Hector gets slaughtered by Zephiel himself quite early, by the same man he once saved a long time ago. As for Eliwood, he pretty much sees everyone he fought with die, and he is now too old and frail to do anything about it. Tragedy at its finest.

... I need to replay that game. It holds a very special place in my heart. The story's execution was flawless, it had a very nice OST, a lot of artwork to punctuate emotionally heavy scenes, etc.
Last edited by Nohar; 09-25-2017 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Confused Ephidel and Zephiel
Rutger
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(09-25-2017, 08:18 PM)
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FE stories are pretty standard stuff, I don't think any have every got me super invested in them. FE9 is probably the closest, it's pretty well structured all around even if it's not doing anything crazy. And I guess I have a soft spot for FE6/7's world, there's a charm to it even though it's pretty simple.

But I can't think of any moments that have had a lasting impact on me.

Originally Posted by Nohar

Ephidel

I think you mean Zephiel. Ephidel was one of Nergal's morphs, and kind of a pointless character that we never get to fight, haha.
Nohar
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(09-25-2017, 08:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rutger

I think you mean Zephiel. Ephidel was one of Nergal's morphs, and kind of a pointless character that we never get to fight, haha.

Yup, caught on my mistake and edited it while you were writing your post, apparently, hehe. My bad.

On a lighter note, FE7 also gave us the first memetic sniper of the series with Denning, before 3-13 Archer from Radiant Dawn made his apparition (a true soldier, he will be missed).
Last edited by Nohar; 09-25-2017 at 08:28 PM.

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