I certainly am not. I don't think they are really a threat to the US or the world in general (beside their own people).
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What is there to be done about NK?
- Thread starter JettDash
- Start date
I certainly am not. I don't think they are really a threat to the US or the world in general (beside their own people).
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
You need to pressure China to disarm them. We're not going to invade not only because of artillery but because China will have their backs again. Problem is US and rest of the world don't have much farther to go with sanctions but if China were to seriously pressure them, they could enforce change in NK.
The danger with them as a nuclear power is they can effective build up their military if the US backs off. Reunification of Korea under NK terms is something they have said and strive for since the ceasefire went into effect. They currently could not build a functional military beyond deterrence because a fight against the US is one they cannot win. Likewise the US had no will to get into a conflict and Chinese troops to pour across the border again. it's a tough situation but it does require careful maneuvering to pressure China, not NK directly.
The danger with them as a nuclear power is they can effective build up their military if the US backs off. Reunification of Korea under NK terms is something they have said and strive for since the ceasefire went into effect. They currently could not build a functional military beyond deterrence because a fight against the US is one they cannot win. Likewise the US had no will to get into a conflict and Chinese troops to pour across the border again. it's a tough situation but it does require careful maneuvering to pressure China, not NK directly.
PdotMichael
Banned
Maybe the military option will work this time.
MotionBlue
Member
There are plenty of answers, just not answers China or Russia want. The last thing they want is a United Korea thanks to American intervention.
MightyKAC
Member
North Korea is a problem that only 2 nations can solve.
North Koreans can decide that enough's enough and get rid of Lil Kim on their own, or South Korea can decide that the current status quo is unsustainable take out the regime with the US's help and accept the consequences that follow.
That's really about it.
In all actuality, the only people that actually want change the situation (and have the ability to do so) is the United States but they have to wait for SK's approval which isn't looking likely.
As it stands now North Korea, South Korea and China are looking at the situation and going "meh, this is fine for now."
While it's true that no solution exists without a LOT of life lost, the real question is how long do we wait until we do something about it.
North Koreans can decide that enough's enough and get rid of Lil Kim on their own, or South Korea can decide that the current status quo is unsustainable take out the regime with the US's help and accept the consequences that follow.
That's really about it.
In all actuality, the only people that actually want change the situation (and have the ability to do so) is the United States but they have to wait for SK's approval which isn't looking likely.
As it stands now North Korea, South Korea and China are looking at the situation and going "meh, this is fine for now."
While it's true that no solution exists without a LOT of life lost, the real question is how long do we wait until we do something about it.
milanbaros
Member?
'What's to be done with NK' sounds like a very American question. This idea that rulers are good and 'evil' also sounds American in origin. The problem and potential 'solutions' are far more complex than a few back and forth on a video game messageboard. Anyone claiming to know the answer probably misunderstood the question.
Without America people wouldn't think that Kim is evil? What about Hitler?
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Not sure why that has become the default story. He would be amazingly stupid. We know NK talks shit but has a hotline to convey reasonable messages. China has just chastised them about being on their own if they initiate an attack.
They won't attack but they are interested in the legitimacy of having nuclear weapons and we won't stop them without China's help.
The answer is diplomacy and sanctions. It's been the answer.
milanbaros
Member?
My point isn't to look at outcomes and assess where someone lands on the goodness spectrum e.g. Is Obama evil for oversight of so many civilian deaths? It is that viewing the world through this prism doesn't work and is too simple to assess the situation.
The whole discussion looks like an attempt to boil down centuries of complex historical build up to a good vs evil narrative, which can't possibly hope to explain what is actually happening.
neurosisxeno
Member
Don't worry, once Jared Kushner wraps up Peace in the Middle East he'll tackle North Korea.
You didn't answer the questions.
milanbaros
Member?
The question on whether people would think Hitler was evil without America? Yes, of course population of Germany's enemies would. Not sure on your point though. The population of the enemy group almost always view the enemy as evil.
So your statememt that "This idea that rulers are good and 'evil' also sounds American in origin" is total nonsense.
milanbaros
Member?
No, the naivety of the comment on the leader of NK in 2017 sounds American in origin. The belief that the enemy is evil has occurred for thousands of years in all parts of the world.
So people can think that Kim is evil without it being American in origin. Just the same as Hitler, and many others. Thanks.
milanbaros
Member?
You're welcome.
andythinkpad
Member
Nothing.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
I would die for it, why not. Atleast, for me, it could be more interesting.
Messofanego
Banned
USA did kill off 20% of North Korea's population (3 million people in 3 years). So they built weapons to defend against USA. Koreans will never forget.
Why Do North Koreans Hate Us? One Reason — They Remember the Korean War. - Mehdi Hasan
Diplomacy has been tried like with Clinton, as Noam Chomsky has talked about. It didn't go anywhere, unfortunately. Bush wasn't a fan (remember his whole "Axis Of Evil" thing). Nor was Obama. Nor is Trump.
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/4/4/full_interview_noam_chomsky_on_democracy
As Chomsky says, it's "a rational tit-for-tat" thing. If USA eases off sanctions and NK eases off military threats, they might come to a deal.
And USA was trying to quietly talk diplomacy with North Korea behind the scenes. However, Trump opened his gob.
Beyond the fiery words, US quietly pursues diplomacy with North Korea - CNN's Elise Labott, Laura Koran and Nicole Gaouette
...
Why Do North Koreans Hate Us? One Reason — They Remember the Korean War. - Mehdi Hasan
Diplomacy has been tried like with Clinton, as Noam Chomsky has talked about. It didn't go anywhere, unfortunately. Bush wasn't a fan (remember his whole "Axis Of Evil" thing). Nor was Obama. Nor is Trump.
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/4/4/full_interview_noam_chomsky_on_democracy
As Chomsky says, it's "a rational tit-for-tat" thing. If USA eases off sanctions and NK eases off military threats, they might come to a deal.
And USA was trying to quietly talk diplomacy with North Korea behind the scenes. However, Trump opened his gob.
Beyond the fiery words, US quietly pursues diplomacy with North Korea - CNN's Elise Labott, Laura Koran and Nicole Gaouette
Officials have told CNN that they hoped this diplomatic channel would lead to more fulsome dialogue. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has emphasized publicly that the US' goal is to start talks with North Korea -- with the important caveat that Pyongyang first relinquish its pursuit of nuclear weapons.
"We felt the appropriate thing to do first was to seek peaceful pressure on the regime in North Korea to have them develop a willingness to sit and talk with us and others," Tillerson told reporters on August 1. "But with an understanding that a condition of those talks is there is no future where North Korea holds nuclear weapons or the ability to deliver those nuclear weapons to anyone in the region, much less to the homeland."
Tillerson has also hinted at other efforts, telling reporters on August 9 that "we have a very active, ongoing diplomatic effort, most of which is behind the scenes because that's where diplomacy is most effective."
On Thursday, Defense Secretary James Mattis praised Tillerson's diplomatic efforts to contain North Korea, saying they were working and that they remain the favored means for solving the crisis.
"We felt the appropriate thing to do first was to seek peaceful pressure on the regime in North Korea to have them develop a willingness to sit and talk with us and others," Tillerson told reporters on August 1. "But with an understanding that a condition of those talks is there is no future where North Korea holds nuclear weapons or the ability to deliver those nuclear weapons to anyone in the region, much less to the homeland."
Tillerson has also hinted at other efforts, telling reporters on August 9 that "we have a very active, ongoing diplomatic effort, most of which is behind the scenes because that's where diplomacy is most effective."
On Thursday, Defense Secretary James Mattis praised Tillerson's diplomatic efforts to contain North Korea, saying they were working and that they remain the favored means for solving the crisis.
...
In recent days, hope of more official negotiations taking place seem to have all but evaporated.
Trump tweeted Friday that US military solutions on North Korea are "locked and loaded." Earlier in the week, he had threatened to unleash "fire and fury" on North Korea. Pyongyang's military leaders have countered with highly detailed threats to fire missiles toward Guam. And China and Russia are scrambling to put together a plan that would require both sides to take steps to defuse tensions.
It's a sharp acceleration away from the discreet attempts, led by Yun, to forge some common ground.
Hope there is diplomacy reached in our lifetimes.Trump tweeted Friday that US military solutions on North Korea are "locked and loaded." Earlier in the week, he had threatened to unleash "fire and fury" on North Korea. Pyongyang's military leaders have countered with highly detailed threats to fire missiles toward Guam. And China and Russia are scrambling to put together a plan that would require both sides to take steps to defuse tensions.
It's a sharp acceleration away from the discreet attempts, led by Yun, to forge some common ground.
USA did kill off 20% of North Korea's population (3 million people in 3 years). So they built weapons to defend against USA. Koreans will never forget.
Why Do North Koreans Hate Us? One Reason They Remember the Korean War. - Mehdi Hasan
Diplomacy has been tried like with Clinton, as Noam Chomsky has talked about. It didn't go anywhere, unfortunately. Bush wasn't a fan (remember his whole "Axis Of Evil" thing). Nor was Obama. Nor is Trump.
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/4/4/full_interview_noam_chomsky_on_democracy
As Chomsky says, it's "a rational tit-for-tat" thing. If USA eases off sanctions and NK eases off military threats, they might come to a deal.
And USA was trying to quietly talk diplomacy with North Korea behind the scenes. However, Trump opened his gob.
Beyond the fiery words, US quietly pursues diplomacy with North Korea - CNN's Elise Labott, Laura Koran and Nicole Gaouette
Officials have told CNN that they hoped this diplomatic channel would lead to more fulsome dialogue. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has emphasized publicly that the US' goal is to start talks with North Korea -- with the important caveat that Pyongyang first relinquish its pursuit of nuclear weapons.
"We felt the appropriate thing to do first was to seek peaceful pressure on the regime in North Korea to have them develop a willingness to sit and talk with us and others," Tillerson told reporters on August 1. "But with an understanding that a condition of those talks is there is no future where North Korea holds nuclear weapons or the ability to deliver those nuclear weapons to anyone in the region, much less to the homeland."
Tillerson has also hinted at other efforts, telling reporters on August 9 that "we have a very active, ongoing diplomatic effort, most of which is behind the scenes because that's where diplomacy is most effective."
On Thursday, Defense Secretary James Mattis praised Tillerson's diplomatic efforts to contain North Korea, saying they were working and that they remain the favored means for solving the crisis.
...
In recent days, hope of more official negotiations taking place seem to have all but evaporated.Hope there is diplomacy reached in our lifetimes.
Trump tweeted Friday that US military solutions on North Korea are "locked and loaded." Earlier in the week, he had threatened to unleash "fire and fury" on North Korea. Pyongyang's military leaders have countered with highly detailed threats to fire missiles toward Guam. And China and Russia are scrambling to put together a plan that would require both sides to take steps to defuse tensions.
It's a sharp acceleration away from the discreet attempts, led by Yun, to forge some common ground.
NK does have a very good reason for hating Americans. Though I still don't think they will do anything. Because Kim doesn't want to die.
Best case is a military coup that ends relatively peacefully with a more stable regime in NK. Then they keep their status as a space buffer for China while being less antagonizing to the west.
Most other options short of a miraculous breakthrough in diplomacy ends up with South Korea and Japan likely getting pretty messed up, tons of lives lost and millions of refugees with no sense of the outside world going through huge culture shock.
Most other options short of a miraculous breakthrough in diplomacy ends up with South Korea and Japan likely getting pretty messed up, tons of lives lost and millions of refugees with no sense of the outside world going through huge culture shock.
The united states did that, the North Korean government responded by killing people found in possession of care packages. The end result was tons of untouched food rotting in open fields.
perfectchaos007
Member
America is asking a question that should be asked by any first world country really. To pretend DPRK isn't a threat is naive, and playing the ignorance card is foolish over time. The first world countries should band together to brainstorm a plan of action.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
IMO, the only way is to get the North Korean people themselves to revolt.
Some way, some how, you have to break free of decades of propaganda.
I have no idea if it has ever been done before.
Some way, some how, you have to break free of decades of propaganda.
I have no idea if it has ever been done before.
perfectchaos007
Member
Seems like defectors are just as vulnerable to being trapped into sex slavery. Going by Yeonmi Parks testimony, its pretty common for Chinese men to trade asylum for sex when North Koreans sneak across the border
Messofanego
Banned
Sounds just like what USA did to the Middle East since the 1950s, and that has led us to today's wars and terrorists. Doesn't sound like a best case to me.
It happened on America when viewers realized a lot of House Hunters International was faked.
Yeah, that's what I think needs to be fought against. We need to make sure that whoever get out, they get a chance of a decent life instead of escaping one hell for another.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
I... Don't know what that is...
It's a lame joke that only people as lame as me will get and even then a wan smile is the best I could hope for. To be honest I'm a disgrace to the page.
The Greek Freak
Member
I'm as anti intervention as it gets, but the Kim family is pure scum that allows citizens to starve to death en masse generation after generation plus literal death camps for political dissidents.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
The kick the can down the road diplomacy comes home to roost.
Fact is they were going to be nuclear capable as soon as the war ended.
What would be ideal is to make N.Korea make peace with S.Korea in exchange for their nuclear capability.
Or have N.Korea declare themselves as a second strike state.
But you'll never be able to fight in North Korea ever.
Terrain is very hilly, and it must be like a honeycomb fortress at this point.
You'd never ever get out of there it'd be on par with Afghanistan except worse. Plus all those viral videos of S.Korea exploding and everyone saying "thanks USA".
They have to do something first something tangible for US to go in.
I just fear a situation where we didn't get any concessions out of N.Korea and they be like "send us food or we'll nuke you, or we sell our nukes to ISIS for food money"
Fact is they were going to be nuclear capable as soon as the war ended.
What would be ideal is to make N.Korea make peace with S.Korea in exchange for their nuclear capability.
Or have N.Korea declare themselves as a second strike state.
But you'll never be able to fight in North Korea ever.
Terrain is very hilly, and it must be like a honeycomb fortress at this point.
You'd never ever get out of there it'd be on par with Afghanistan except worse. Plus all those viral videos of S.Korea exploding and everyone saying "thanks USA".
They have to do something first something tangible for US to go in.
I just fear a situation where we didn't get any concessions out of N.Korea and they be like "send us food or we'll nuke you, or we sell our nukes to ISIS for food money"
Sad Affleck
Member
Good post.
T.v
Member
As a European the entire NK conflict seems to me like a very US centric problem. It's just too bad there's other countries like SK or Japan that are being put in danger. Furthermore, I have never been too comfortable with going so far to deny some countries access to nuclear weapons. For example, I am no more comfortable with the US having nukes as I would be with NK. This policing is so hypocritical to me. Get rid of your own nukes too if you want to tell others to get rid of theirs.
In exchange for an end to hostilities, we offer aid, a place at the table, and trade opportunities. Make allies of them. As time goes on, step down on both sides of the borders in stages. We leave our base there, but stop with the hostile stance.
It would take NK eons to ever be powerful enough to truly threaten SK (backed by the USA). In several decades things would cool. Maybe one day relations could be normalized.
PS: I know next to nothing about diplomacy lol
It would take NK eons to ever be powerful enough to truly threaten SK (backed by the USA). In several decades things would cool. Maybe one day relations could be normalized.
PS: I know next to nothing about diplomacy lol
problem is NK is firmly planted in the 1950s mindset. US could replace the entire armed militia with hippie drum circles and completely denuke and north korea would still have the korean war fresh on their minds well into the century
hating the US is what literally gets them up in the morning
AlimNassor
Banned
Bannon is full of shit. 10mil people will not die instantly by North Korea even with Nukes. Thats' full on BS. Second, Seoul would not be leveled by anything short of a nuke. People would die sure, and Seoul would be damaged but, people gravely overestimate how powerful soviet-era Artillery guns are. It would take days, no, weeks of non-stop barrages to level Seoul.
What can be done? nothing. We destroy North Korea and then what? We go back to square one when another tyrant takes over or we start an insurgency movement leading to more bloodshed? Either way North Korea will take generations to fix. Ignore them, keep sanctions on them but, ignore them unless they attack first. Theres nothing to gain by taking out North Korea.
What can be done? nothing. We destroy North Korea and then what? We go back to square one when another tyrant takes over or we start an insurgency movement leading to more bloodshed? Either way North Korea will take generations to fix. Ignore them, keep sanctions on them but, ignore them unless they attack first. Theres nothing to gain by taking out North Korea.
I'd imagine this approach has already resulted in a bunch of dead generals.