Skellig Gra
Member
Yeah this is all a simple choice. Everyone loves being obese.
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Obesity among US adults reaches all-time high, 40% of adults and 19% of kids
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
- Start date
UtterlyPerplexed
Member
The environment has changed, particularly over the last few decades or so. And that's just putting aside the insane quantities of sugar and processed food out there and so cheaply available.
You're seeing corporations come to the realisation that something like directly reaching out to kids through advertisement is effective. You have supermarkets deliberately stock their shelves in a particular way as to reach out to kids. You're often or not able to find lower and middle shelves stacked with high sugar cereals blaring with colour and designed to be easily visible for kids. Unsurprisingly most parents will relent and allow their children to have a box simply to shut them up. Value deals come up and often or not, it's probably a deal on fizzy drinks or some microwaveable snack.
You're seeing the joint effects of convenience and poor work-life balance coming together and breeding an environment where the usual meal portions balloon. Fast food eateries were already ubiquitous and now they're just completely unavoidable. You can't walk around the corner without coming across either a takeaway joint or a Dominos. Your favourite restaurant in the USA has likely either increased portions or has for a while been running meal deals where you can get more for less, thereby encouraging quantity. An exhausted parent comes home from work and elects to just take the family out to eat, whereby they're exposed and conditioned to wanting and expecting bigger and bigger portions. If the time eventually comes for a home-cooked meal, lo and behold, suddenly the entire plate may be filled to the brim - because these are the proportions they've come to naturally expect.
Technological advances and various other social factors have also helped to create an environment hostile to physical activity. I'm going to hazard a guess and presume that parents are far more cautious these days, so kids are less inclined to be playing outside. And why do that when they have everything they want indoors to be permanently entertained? As local economies stagnate, many people end up commuting further and further to their jobs, which drives up the amount of hours in a car as opposed to cycling or walking to work. As the aforementioned work-life balance goes out the window and stress piles up, it's easy to lose motivation for even unstructured physical activity like casual walks.
And that's just a few talking points on the subject. There's easily a whole host of other factors.
You're seeing corporations come to the realisation that something like directly reaching out to kids through advertisement is effective. You have supermarkets deliberately stock their shelves in a particular way as to reach out to kids. You're often or not able to find lower and middle shelves stacked with high sugar cereals blaring with colour and designed to be easily visible for kids. Unsurprisingly most parents will relent and allow their children to have a box simply to shut them up. Value deals come up and often or not, it's probably a deal on fizzy drinks or some microwaveable snack.
You're seeing the joint effects of convenience and poor work-life balance coming together and breeding an environment where the usual meal portions balloon. Fast food eateries were already ubiquitous and now they're just completely unavoidable. You can't walk around the corner without coming across either a takeaway joint or a Dominos. Your favourite restaurant in the USA has likely either increased portions or has for a while been running meal deals where you can get more for less, thereby encouraging quantity. An exhausted parent comes home from work and elects to just take the family out to eat, whereby they're exposed and conditioned to wanting and expecting bigger and bigger portions. If the time eventually comes for a home-cooked meal, lo and behold, suddenly the entire plate may be filled to the brim - because these are the proportions they've come to naturally expect.
Technological advances and various other social factors have also helped to create an environment hostile to physical activity. I'm going to hazard a guess and presume that parents are far more cautious these days, so kids are less inclined to be playing outside. And why do that when they have everything they want indoors to be permanently entertained? As local economies stagnate, many people end up commuting further and further to their jobs, which drives up the amount of hours in a car as opposed to cycling or walking to work. As the aforementioned work-life balance goes out the window and stress piles up, it's easy to lose motivation for even unstructured physical activity like casual walks.
And that's just a few talking points on the subject. There's easily a whole host of other factors.
I didn't notice that you'd bolded a part of the original post and, for a moment, seriously thought you were calling black women lazy.
Gave me a right good shock that did
Moose Biscuits
It would be extreamly painful...
Well, I don't like being obese, but I guess I prefer it to the changes I'd have to make to my lifestyle to fix it.
Yessir, I don't think most people really have any concept of just how bad a lot of food these days are. Even stuff we know is "junk", there is this idea of "it's bad but I'm just having a little" or "just once in a while". But that shit is so stuffed with fat and sugar and calories it's astounding. A single snickers bar isn't just a casual indulgence, it's a fourth of your daily calorie intake and packs about 50% more sugar than a person is recommended to have in a single day. People know a snickers bar isnt good for them, but the food industry has been successful at making sure people don't understand just how crushingly astoundingly astonishingly insanely unhealthy these kinds of foods are even in small amounts.
Quoting myself for he new page:
You can't make people do the right thing, sure. But as a society you can make it easier for them to. It's why we have laws that deter people from doing bad things and punish them when they do. It kinda works
entremet
Member
When you look at population-based behaviors, there's a macro way of looking at it.
Sure personal responsibility is a good thing, but did we say this 50 years ago when obesity was not a problem?
People didn't go to gyms. They didn't do fad diets. They didn't calorie count. Why? Because the food landscape was healthier. The default outcome was a healthy weight.
So, given that, if we are to reverse this, it will involve more than just going the personal responsibility route. We need to change our environments.
Skellig Gra
Member
Thats fine but you getting to this point wasnt a conscious choice. Portion sizes, HFC being in everything, etc, are all contributing factors.
Completely agreed problem is people are so against stuff like the soda tax. They claim to know whats best but they dont actually.
Agreed. I'm not even overweight, but I decided to drop getting my weekly pizza or burger because it's just plain bad for me. I keep it to once, maybe twice per month. Started eating salads for dinner on the regular and added more soups to my diet. Cut red meat to at most two days a week as a primary dish, and I am a voracious meat lover.
It takes a little effort to reprogram yourself, but not that much. Maybe because everyone around you is eating garbage that kind of behavior is normalized in the states?
That, plus people don't eat until they're sated anymore, they eat until they feel they're full (which is way too much). If you aren't physically active, at least exercise some portion control.
Your portion size is ridiculous. When I visited San Francisco, I ordered this for lunch:
I was shocked when I got it as in the picture didn't look this big. This to me looks like it could feed 2-3 people. Normally when I order something here in Sydney, the portion would be 1/4 or at most, 1/3 of that bowl. I was already full by the time I ate 1/3 of that bowl so I thought I'll put it in takeaway container and eat the rest for dinner. But during dinner, I still couldn't finish the rest. It was just too much.
Things like this aren't really meant for one meal. Throughout my entire life it's been a rarity for me or almost anyone else I've ever known to finish dinner or lunch at most places. Outside of like diner food most sit down dinners feed you a lot, not because you're supposed to eat it right then but so you have leftovers for a day or two. More bang for your buck.
It does contribute though, but I don't think foreigners really understand that we largely don't eat all that in one sitting. We eat too much, sure, but not that much.
7DollarHagane
Banned
There is no systemic institutionalized anything that prevents someone from shutting their phone off and going for an hour walk a day. Or buying chicken breasts and cucumbers, peppers, and tomatoes that cost nothing and can be cooked on a $30 George foreman grill.
Most protien heavy fresh meats are very cheap, and most vegetables are cheap as well. At least as cheap or cheaper than an equal quantity of sugary snacks or crackers or pasta. And certainly cheaper than frozen meals or eating at a fast food place.
I say this as someone who is overweight and has struggled with it since being out of college. My fitness pal is free to track calories, going for a walk is free, and simple healthy food with non-salt heavy seasonings are cheaper than most unhealthy options.
If you don't have motivation everything else is irrelevant. A team of specialists could make it it's personal mission to get you healthy but you need motivation to make it happen.
There's also some recent studies that believe that the types of food we eat enable certain types of gut bacteria to thrive on that type of food and send signals to our brain demanding those types of foods more.
That means if you eat healthy, your brain will want healthy foods. But you have to break that cycle first.
The years of blaming no-one else but the individual got us to this point.
Simply going "eat less move more ya damn fatties," is never going to work on a wide scale. No, you can't literally make people 'do the right thing', but you can't shame them into doing so either.
entremet
Member
If it takes a little effort, why are people having a hard losing weight and keeping it off?
Most obese people don't want to be obese, and according to survey data, many try different interventions and fail.
And if you really want to get depressed, some studies show that most obese people never keep the weight off for good. Sad reality.
As someone who has recently lost 30KG I am pretty sure the simplest answer to this problem is to cut back on carbs. No need to go full keto, just dont have everything you eat be a carb. Don't eat 300g of carbs unless you are an athlete or working a HIGHLY active job.
The belief that fat makes you fat is too ingrained in everyone's mind to see the real problem in with carbs. Of course, there is a calorie issue too, but carbs on top of carbs all day every day without end is insane.
A lot of people say this was the problem (a horrible study that was parroted and echoed across all media in the mid-80w), at I think I fully believe them...
You are pretty sure, and pretty wrong.A combination of bad carbs, bad fat and salt is the problem. Not one particular macronutrient.
Monkeyball
Banned
There is money to be made by making people eat junk. money > life
Yes there is. You're wrong utterly wrong
There have been multiple studies in the last few years that actually show sedentary life styles start after obesity not before. Contrary to the common belief. The issue is more complicated then simple personal choice and twenty plus years of viewing and combating weight loss as personal choice have failed to prove that. It's time to realize it's a more complicated issue and combat it as such.
family_guy
Member
I think people were more active 50 years ago. They had like 3 TV channels and no video games or internet. They weren't sitting around the house.
Cool. Tell that to the single mom working 2 jobs for a total of 16 hours a day with a 60 minute commute. Man, why can't those lazy poors just not sleep and exercise instead.
This shit is like looking at income equality and saying "why can't those poors just work harder. People are lazy etc"
Amazing article about the subject, if anyone is interested:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazi...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazi...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Skellig Gra
Member
A bit harsh but not entirely wrong. Anyone can lose weight if they try however getting obese/overweight in the first place is the real killer. Its so much easier to maintain your health than trying to fix it
Patrick Bateman
Member
This is simply not true.
Try buying and cooking responsibly and all of this will be cheaper and way healthier than any fast food.
E.g. a vegetable soup for two people will cost you around 5$ in vegetables and soup ingredients and youll be able to live of that for even two days.
A big salad with feta cheese, olives and pita bread costs about the same and will also be enough for at least 3-4 people. Get some olive oil, vinegar, salt and pepper and youre ready.
entremet
Member
Possibly, but the biggest difference is calorie intake overall. We just eat way more calories and those calories are coming from fast and packaged foods.
7DollarHagane
Banned
It's not about being poor.
Many of the richest people with the most free time and that could afford personal trainers and cooks are fat and overweight.
Like I said motivation is the biggest factor.
Most people have a hard time keeping the weight off once they lose it.
Education is based on individual level changes and flat education (no social marketing) ignores cultural aspects of obesity as well. All scientific evidence points to the contrary for health, i.e. that we should be looking at it this way to actually encourage healthy lifestyles:
You must create an environment conducive to healthy behavior if you want people to have healthy behavior.
This seems really obvious but government efforts re
edit: The most effect means of changing minds at the government and private sector level is probably by telling them how much money the healthcare for an obese population costs compared to a healthy population. Talking billions extra at the state level in some cases. Of course the truly psychotic (ex. Trump) will just choose to delete healthcare and let everyone die, but there is a possibility that the more reasonable business owner or government official can be convinced if you explain that it will cost their business or institution in particular a lot of extra money.
Best post so far. It's not about education, it's about making people make healthy decisions without knowing about it. Change the enviroment, ban commercials (especially for children) and make greens available for everyone.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
I'm rather obese myself but I've started tracking every calorie with My Fitness Pal and I've been steadily losing weight.
It's insane what I used to eat. I used to have 3 "meals" a day where each meal was 2000-3000 calories.
I'm lucky to have a job where I'm on my feet. My old diet combined with a sedentary desk job and I'd be even worse off than I am now.
It's insane what I used to eat. I used to have 3 "meals" a day where each meal was 2000-3000 calories.
I'm lucky to have a job where I'm on my feet. My old diet combined with a sedentary desk job and I'd be even worse off than I am now.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I rule.
I went from "obese" to just "overweight" in the last few months! (-40 pounds) Basically all counting with MyFitnessPal. I still don't do all that much exercise.
I went from "obese" to just "overweight" in the last few months! (-40 pounds) Basically all counting with MyFitnessPal. I still don't do all that much exercise.
Skellig Gra
Member
Didnt we have a thread about junk food reprogramming your brain or something along those lines?
Dice//
Banned
Agreed, but I think it also needs to go both ways. Sadly it seems adults need to be treated like children too by limiting their hands and have laws or premiums put in place (like a soda tax or just altogether eliminating garbage like that 64oz sized soda cup) to encourage better behaviour.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
I think its especially important to educate people about how bad sugar is for you versus whats always condemned on labels, that being fat (which drives me insane). People see low-fat and immediately disregard all the other ingredients.
Easier said than done but if we could just somehow get events or challenges rolling where people dropped all soda and considerably lowered their sugar intake for a few weeks, theyd see results immediately and probably rethink how much sugar they have in their diet.
But this is wishful thinking and Im being delusional.
Ha, I get frustrated if I don't get my daily apple, so I don't avoid any stores. I will say though I walk everywhere I go in a new city and usually I stumble over someplace and that somehow didn't happen. It's always an aspect that fascinates when traveling, because the rest of the world works so differently from where I come. It really is that much easier here to find some fresh fruit. Instead everything in the USA sells drugs/pills? Just weird.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
"If only people were more active" mostly misses the point. It's not generally exercise that's the problem it's almost entirely dietary.
"Are poverty and obesity associated? Poverty rates and obesity were reviewed across 3,139 counties in the U.S. (2,6). In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity (Fig. 1A). Counties with poverty rates of >35% have obesity rates 145% greater than wealthy counties."
Please. Keep telling us how being poor doesn't matter. Are you saying poor people are just less motivated?
Keyser Soze
Member
Of course there are issues all over the place but the one the can be most closely connected to obesity tight now, due to its over consumption in so many diets. High fat diets were scaremongered 30 years ago, and "experts" recommend all manner of grains and other high carb options as good for you when they simply are not,
To the people making extremely bad bootstraps posts, a relevant sidebar: Willpower isn't really a thing.
It's not a quantity that some people lack and others have in abundance, a skill to be trained, an exhaustible resource, etc. It's made up.
Motivation to change one's own behavior is real. Habits are real, as are methods of altering them. Various ways of coping with the difficulty of the preceding things are real. But they don't all mesh into a magical thing called willpower that's often claimed to be the key to all of life's problems.
It's not a quantity that some people lack and others have in abundance, a skill to be trained, an exhaustible resource, etc. It's made up.
Motivation to change one's own behavior is real. Habits are real, as are methods of altering them. Various ways of coping with the difficulty of the preceding things are real. But they don't all mesh into a magical thing called willpower that's often claimed to be the key to all of life's problems.
"Those poors they are so unmotivated to earn money""Are poverty and obesity associated? Poverty rates and obesity were reviewed across 3,139 counties in the U.S. (2,6). In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity (Fig. 1A). Counties with poverty rates of >35% have obesity rates 145% greater than wealthy counties."
Please. Keep telling us how being poor doesn't matter. Are you saying poor people are just less motivated?
I can't think of a worse argument for why regulations such as the sugar tax are bad than "they treat adults like children!!!"
7DollarHagane
Banned
Have these soda taxes actually accomplished anything?
If anything the campaigns against smoking should be a model. They seem to have been effective in slowly reducing smoking rates.
The problem.is that there is not just one culprit in obesity. It's a total lifestyle change. Unlike quitting smoking it is not just simply "quit cheeseburgers" or "quit soda" that will fix it.
pureplayin2
Member
We need to better educate people on nutrition. We need to start in elementary school. Just by cutting soda out of your diet will automatically get you to lose weight from that change alone. We also need to stop telling fat people that they are beautiful because if they feel comfortable while not being able to walk without losing their breath, they will never get healthier. PLUS, I feel if you are considered obese than by default all medical co-pays should be double or triple in cost, all medical procedures should cost double or triple, all medications should automatically cost double or triple, and the same for any surgery. Really show that being obese is a detriment to the health system because it is. It is easier to eat unhealthy than healthy so that simple fact alone proves it is all a choice!!! You chose to eat garbage and refuse to exercise, no one is going to feel bad for you when you develop the list of health issues that comes with being obese.
In the mean time, I will continue to fat shame and make it known how repulsive obese people look- I don't go out of my way to do this, if I'm with some friends and I say something, you might be able to hear it which is the point. And I hope the trend continues that healthier people get the raises or promotions over the obese person. I've yet to meet an obese person who wasn't lazy and a slob in other aspects of their life.
In the mean time, I will continue to fat shame and make it known how repulsive obese people look- I don't go out of my way to do this, if I'm with some friends and I say something, you might be able to hear it which is the point. And I hope the trend continues that healthier people get the raises or promotions over the obese person. I've yet to meet an obese person who wasn't lazy and a slob in other aspects of their life.
The only post that needs to be made. People are fat because it's the life style they choose. Simple as that.
Skellig Gra
Member
It entirely misses the point. A hard workout you are lucky to burn 1k calories. You can eat 1k in calories worth of junk food in a couple minutes. Exercise makes you healthier but its not a big factor on your weight.
Then why is the US so much worse off than other countries? Basic Human nature doesnt vary country to country. There have to be external influences.