I just now learned that Valve apparently already has exactly that:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=951529029
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Lots of new Valve/SteamVR "Knuckles" Controller info (separate finger tracking!)
- Thread starter Durante
- Start date
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=951529029
Theonik
Member
The controller is attached to your hand and is tracked thus you get accurate hand tracking in 3D space.
You don't need to touch a surface to measure capacitance variations. That's true of touchscreens as well. The way you interpret measurements in inputs is part of the engineering that goes into the devices. Hell Vita's touchscreen was so sensitive you could hover over it and it would register!
Neat. I kinda want them to open orders for devs now, heh.
Or ask around in my company, we usually get the newest prototypes
OnionPowder
Member
These controllers are so exciting. They are going to add another level to VR.
next thing we need really bad is feet tracking.
next thing we need really bad is feet tracking.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Right, but you're not actually touching the surface when using a touchscreen or trackpad - there are several layers of glass and/or plastic in between. But I understand what you're saying - didn't know that about the Vita - the obvious challenge is overcoming the loss of accuracy when sensing from a greater distance.
Well, as I said previously, these can easily emulate (and even improve upon) the Vive controller inputs.
Also, to some extent it is "standardized" -- there's nothing in the OpenVR API that needs to change to support these controllers, and the API even provides controller models so a correctly implemented game should work with no changes (without using the new features of course).
If by "standardized" you mean "have only one layout across all hardware and stick with it forever" then I think it's still too early for that, and it would quite severely hamper innovation.
For the sake of argument, this seems very likely. There is some hardware buzz I can't really mention right now, but also of note Steam Hardware now have a Twitter account as of 2 months back. They are ramping up to something.
Also concave trackpad is what I've been waiting for. Hoping it works as well as I think and hoping the Steam Controller goes that route
Nice.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
between this and TPCast..Ill be spending a lot more on my vive.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
No, they don't need to touch the surface to be sensed.
Think something like the Samsung "air gestures", but in an actually useful context
I'm not familiar with Samsung air gestures but will look into it. Thanks
The number of times I've kicked in Superhot out of reflex is kinda embarrassing, yeah. Maybe stockings with sensors embedded in them?
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
current Oculus Touch controller already has limited finger tracking without needing to touch the surface.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
As much as feet tracking would be cool, I think the focus needs to be on cheaper and faster setup after the knuckles controllers. Wireless addons are a good start for faster setup.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Why is there still no joystick? :/
Awesome so they should be immediately are usable with all existing Vive games perfect
I got some Knuckles in your Knuckles so you can Knuckle when you Knuckle.
.....I will Knuckle myself out.
josecitoxnyo
Member
Hopefully Vive 2.0 ships with these controllers, can't wait.
Because it's less flexible. How would you replicate the full functionality of the existing Vive controllers with a joystick?
Sleeping Lesson
Member
I still feel no desire to have an analog stick. Trackpad is as good + way more functionality for me.
Also, "Knuckles controllers currently have a 3 hour battery life." That seems... not great.
Also, "Knuckles controllers currently have a 3 hour battery life." That seems... not great.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Did Valve do it so Vive owners can play Oculus Touch games?
Sleeping Lesson
Member
And single-rotor sync-on-beam Lighthouse 2.0s are a great start for cheaper overall setup cost!
Less than half the internal components per lighthouse, likely (this is mostly my speculation) less need for complex calibration during manufacturing, and all while increasing accuracy and range further.
Random Human
They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
.
Veritigo_X
Member
Can the Vive support more than two controllers?
ShadowSoldier89
Member
most definitely. The manufacturing cost of the lighthouses is deceptively high.
I wonder how far away we are from outside in tracking + HMD + finger tracking controllers hitting the $600 range.
technologically it can for sure. Just would need implemented. It can already track more than just the headset and 2 controllers. The puck addon is available.
Veritigo_X
Member
Oh duh, forgot about the puck.
The Vive HMD specifically can't, in terms of communication bandwidth, but the OpenVR ecosystem can support a ridiculous number.
They could ship the knuckle controllers with a $3 USB receiver to make them independent of the HMD in use.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
I think going forward inside-out tracking is the only way to go.
Theonik
Member
Might be easier to imagine the controller being fixed to your palm. What the touchpad can sense is how many fingers are touching the surface, how much of each finger is touching a surface and with less accuracy how far the finger is from a point of the surface. Fingers have a reasonably limited range of motion. Even if you were limited to finger curl that's still reasonably good for much finger motion!
ShadowSoldier89
Member
a nice small receiver that can plug into the USB slot in the HMD
is there any USB extension cables available similar to the one that the Vive Pre had for that USB?
I dont see inside out ever reaching the accuracy of outside in.
Veritigo_X
Member
How are developers using pucks? Just as replacements for Vive controllers?
Takamura-San
Member
This is a 2018 thing?
Marker-less?
Because the Lighthouse system is inside-out tracking (with markers).
When you show me markerless inside-out tracking for controllers that works remotely as accurately, reliably and in as many scenarios as Lighthouse (1.0, never mind 2.0) does I'll become a believer in that. But I think that's still a long way off.
Using USB receivers. You can have 10+ trackers running at the same time.
GuitarAtomik
Member
It's going to be so gooooood.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Ive always looked at vive as outside in, but this makes sense.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Sure markerless is great, but that's not what I was responding to. Other guy was suggesting outside-in tracking which I think is a step backward.
Vive is absolutely inside-out tracking.
Random Human
They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
.
Well, I hope you don't get your wish, because I very decidedly do not want an analog stick on my VR controllers. Certainly not instead of the touch pad, and certainly not at my thumbs natural resting position.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Yeah, I get your meaning. Sounds like it could work reasonably well.
Well, yes, if you want much less functionality and flexibility, and worse ergonomics.
Veritigo_X
Member
Ew, why do people want analog sticks