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Mikey Jr.
Member
(02-15-2017, 12:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by OCD Guy

Honestly I don't even think the Switch will get versions of most multi-platform games at all.

Will likely be a handful, that won't sell well and Publishers won't bother funding the ports anymore.

Which I'm ok with by the way. As long as there's a steady stream of good games I'll be happy, I'm hoping for a flourishing indie scene on the Switch as indie games are seriously starting to look polished nowdays, and some have a crap load of content/ playability too. .

Nintendo is going to be rolling in the money. Get a nice slice of those $5 indie games.
Terrell
Member
(02-15-2017, 12:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by mitchman

You seem confused. The TVs Youtube app uses the VP9 hardware decoding support built into the TV. ALL UHD TVs sold the last 2 years has hardware VP9 support just to support youtube in UHD.

I'm not confused. Read what you quoted again.

Originally Posted by mitchman

Both Netflix and Amazon Video support UHD on PS4 Pro using HEVC.

No, they support UHD through the h.264 codec. Sony has not paid the royalties for HEVC/h.265, which is why you cannot play HEVC/h.265 encoded media in the PS4 or PS4 Pro Media Player. I did the requisite reading on the subject, I suggest you do the same. Here's one of many links that confirms no HEVC/h.265 support in any PS4 model.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/...nd-the-corner/

Originally Posted by mitchman

Software decoding would not be able to decode HEVC from UHD Blu-rays and would struggle even with Netflix's bitrates. Even MS went out and said they tried to do software decoding on the original Xbox One but were hard pressed to even do Netflix UHD with it.

I will stand corrected, Xbox One S added h.265 hardware acceleration to the Xbox One S exclusively. The original model does not possess it. Meaning Xbox One S, a slim model of a console, and Switch, the primary SKU that all others will be based on, are the only ones with hardware acceleration for VP9 or h.265/HEVC.

So as I mentioned, VP9 and HEVC are not available to Microsoft or Sony for the purpose of utilization in a game development environment. After all, can't develop exclusively for Xbox One S.

EDIT: Also of note, AMD did not add HEVC hardware acceleration until 2015 with the Carizzo chipset, so Jaguar doesn't have it. It would require a wholly-separate added chip to the motherboard to have HEVC hardware acceleration, which is how the Xbox One S obtained it. No such chip was added to the PS4 Pro and the original PS4 did not have one either, as shown in several teardowns of both consoles.
Last edited by Terrell; 02-15-2017 at 12:44 PM.
mitchman
Member
(02-15-2017, 12:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Terrell

I'm not confused. Read what you quoted again.

No, they support UHD through the h.264 codec. Sony has not paid the royalties for h.265, which is why you cannot play h.265 encoded media in the PS4 or PS4 Pro Media Player. I did the requisite reading on the subject, I suggest you do the same. Here's one of many links that confirms no h.265 support in any PS4 model.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/...nd-the-corner/

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/...nd-the-corner/ uses Jeff Rigby as the source and he has been proven to be delusional and wrong. He even bet USD $100 that PS4 and Xbox One would receive a UHD Blu-ray supporting firmware upgrade before the end of 2016 and was obviously wrong. He's permabanned on NeoGAF now. The article does not mention PS4 Pro at all.
mitchman
Member
(02-15-2017, 12:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Terrell

I'm not confused. Read what you quoted again.

You wrote: "Yeah, but if the boxes attached to said TVs don't support it, it doesn't mean much. And a hugely significant amount of them do not and have not."

I don't see how this has any relevance to the TVs VP9 support. External boxes will have to do their own decoding of VP9, this is not related to VP9 hardware decoding support in TVs.
Terrell
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(02-15-2017, 12:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by mitchman

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/...nd-the-corner/ uses Jeff Rigby as the source and he has been proven to be delusional and wrong. He even bet USD $100 that PS4 and Xbox One would receive a UHD Blu-ray supporting firmware upgrade before the end of 2016 and was obviously wrong. He's permabanned on NeoGAF now. The article does not mention PS4 Pro at all.

This part of the article didn't source Jeff Rigby:

What about 4K video content? That question is harder to answer, because the industry standard 4K codec, H.265, has never been advertised as having PS4 support. The Xbox One S, on the other hand, now supports 4K playback, but we know that's due in part to a brand-new HEVC decoder on its primary chip. Unless Sony has another secret chip hiding in its 2013 consoles, PS4 would have to support H.265 decoding through a makeshift software-coded solution.

Also, see my edit above.

Originally Posted by mitchman

You wrote: "Yeah, but if the boxes attached to said TVs don't support it, it doesn't mean much. And a hugely significant amount of them do not and have not."

I don't see how this has any relevance to the TVs VP9 support. External boxes will have to do their own decoding of VP9, this is not related to VP9 hardware decoding support in TVs.

You were responding to a point being made about VP9's adoption into ALL devices. You isolated down to recently manufactured TVs, which likely only have support in 4K smart TVs that access YouTube. It's not even relevant commentary to what you responded to.
Last edited by Terrell; 02-15-2017 at 12:50 PM.
DekuLink
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(02-15-2017, 12:46 PM)
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Oregano
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(02-15-2017, 12:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by mitchman

You wrote: "Yeah, but if the boxes attached to said TVs don't support it, it doesn't mean much. And a hugely significant amount of them do not and have not."

I don't see how this has any relevance to the TVs VP9 support. External boxes will have to do their own decoding of VP9, this is not related to VP9 hardware decoding support in TVs.

I think the point is that games made for Switch can use VP9 for their video content for smaller filesizes which XBO and PS4 games can't.
wildfire
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(02-15-2017, 12:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Futurist

Anyone who is buying a new TV from last year onward is getting 4K unless they go out of their way to spend less on a lower end model.

I bought a new TV last year, and the 1080 options were not worth it.

They are if you want to play on TVs emphasizing frame rate over resolution. Hitting 120 FPS and drastically reducing motion blur is preferable over 4K. Console gaming isn't there but PC gaming is. Atleast with the PS4 Pro I can emphasize 60 FPS over unstable 30 FPS,
Terrell
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(02-15-2017, 12:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oregano

I think the point is that games made for Switch can use VP9 for their video content for smaller filesizes which XBO and PS4 games can't.

THANK YOU. Yes, that was my ultimate point.
mitchman
Member
(02-15-2017, 12:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Terrell

No, they support UHD through the h.264 codec. Sony has not paid the royalties for HEVC/h.265, which is why you cannot play HEVC/h.265 encoded media in the PS4 or PS4 Pro Media Player. I did the requisite reading on the subject, I suggest you do the same.

Well, if you don't believe me, maybe you would believe http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...&id=1474434549 then? Let me quote the relevant paragraph from a much more reputable source than Jeff Ridgy:

(When talking about UHD Blu-ray support missing) "Again however, this cannot quite explain Sony’s decision against Ultra HD Blu-ray support because PS4 Pro does support YouTube 2160p videos and ‘Netflix 4K’ streaming with dedicated apps. The latter also requires HEVC decoding. In licensing, in principle anything is possible but it’s unlikely there would be extra charges for HEVC decoding for multiple video media."
Terrell
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(02-15-2017, 01:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by mitchman

Well, if you don't believe me, maybe you would believe http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.ph...&id=1474434549 then? Let me quote the relevant paragraph from a much more reputable source than Jeff Ridgy:

(When talking about UHD Blu-ray support missing) "Again however, this cannot quite explain Sony’s decision against Ultra HD Blu-ray support because PS4 Pro does support YouTube 2160p videos and ‘Netflix 4K’ streaming with dedicated apps. The latter also requires HEVC decoding. In licensing, in principle anything is possible but it’s unlikely there would be extra charges for HEVC decoding for multiple video media."

Hmmm, despite all my digging on Google, not offering universal 4K video support (it's notably absent in the Media Player) and Sony never actually stating hardware support for it, PS4 Pro does have HEVC hardware acceleration, as the new chipset borrows features from Polaris, including the HEVC support. But the only place that corroborated that statement was Wikipedia, citing a 2-hour YouTube video of the PS4 Pro's unveiling with no timestamp to the quote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlaySt...specifications

Guess they got Google and Netflix etc. to foot some or all of the royalty fees then, since that is where their ability to utilize it ends.

Which again proves my ultimate point: those codecs aren't usable by developers and seem there solely for Netflix and YouTube (or UHD Blu-Ray in the case of Xbox One S), as the codec is not universally accessible, likely due to the royalty fees for HEVC utilization quoted in my initial post.
Last edited by Terrell; 02-15-2017 at 01:44 PM.
franklyshankly
Member
(02-15-2017, 01:19 PM)

Originally Posted by wildfire

They are if you want to play on TVs emphasizing frame rate over resolution. Hitting 120 FPS and drastically reducing motion blur is preferable over 4K. Console gaming isn't there but PC gaming is. Atleast with the PS4 Pro I can emphasize 60 FPS over unstable 30 FPS,

Are there any TVs that are actually 120 hertz now or are they all still the interpolation nonsense.
Skittzo0413
Member
(02-15-2017, 01:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oregano

I think the point is that games made for Switch can use VP9 for their video content for smaller filesizes which XBO and PS4 games can't.

Because every Switch supports it by default whereas not every base XBO and PS4 will be hooked up to a TV able to support it (from what I understand).

So ultimately it's only usable for compression for Switch games.

Hopefully this is correct and helps clarify the debate for onlookers.
Burdmayn
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(02-15-2017, 01:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oregano

Not defending the dumbass decisions but that's 80% of the general population. The amount of people who don't own a Smartphone but do own a console is probably really, really low.

Still dumb though.

I 100% agree. It's not the best decision (It would be nice for the app to just be an option), but Nintendo didn't do this blindly. They most definitely did their research beforehand.

But yeah... It still doesn't make sense why we supposedly can't party/voice chat via the console itself. If we can, they need to clear that up soon for the hardcore peeps like us.
wildfire
Member
(02-15-2017, 01:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by franklyshankly

Are there any TVs that are actually 120 hertz now or are they all still the interpolation nonsense.

Yes a few are now legit. I suggest using Rtings or Consumer Reports to get a heads up on which displays are.
Terrell
Member
(02-15-2017, 01:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skittzo0413

Because every Switch supports it by default whereas not every base XBO and PS4 will be hooked up to a TV able to support it (from what I understand).

So ultimately it's only usable for compression for Switch games.

Hopefully this is correct and helps clarify the debate for onlookers.

Yes, that is correct, Switch is the only platform that has a video codec available for game development that can reduce FMV file sizes. PS4 Pro by all accounts is upscaling video cutscenes encoded in h.264 at 1080p to 4K in several currently available games and likely is using the same codec for those that were re-encoded to 4K, as none of the system software can play video encoded in any other way; it is only usable for streaming video services at this time.
Last edited by Terrell; 02-15-2017 at 01:42 PM.
BriareosGAF
Member
(02-15-2017, 01:34 PM)
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Is Terrell secret jeff_rigby alt account? INQUIRING MINDS.
mitchman
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(02-15-2017, 01:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by BriareosGAF

Is Terrell secret jeff_rigby alt account? INQUIRING MINDS.

No, jeff_rigby never admitted he was wrong despite mounting evidence.
TyMiles2012
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(02-15-2017, 05:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by franklyshankly

Are there any TVs that are actually 120 hertz now or are they all still the interpolation nonsense.

I know at least the VIZIO P series do. The 4K60hz port also supports 1080p at 120hz native. On my VIZIO M55c2, it's 60hz maximum, but it has significantly less input lag if you plug a game system into the 4K port compared to the 1.4 HDMI ports, which the input lag on those ports are unbearable even with game mode. Though none of my friends had issues with it in the first place, but they typically play on consoles much more often. I'm spoiled by 144hz.

EDIT: Quoted wrong reply.
Liabe Brave
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(02-15-2017, 10:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Terrell

PS4 Pro by all accounts is upscaling video cutscenes encoded in h.264 at 1080p to 4K in several currently available games....

Which games are these, or can you point me to the analysis of them? I'd like to update my Pro thread. Thanks!
Peltz
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(02-15-2017, 10:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by mitchman

No, jeff_rigby never admitted he was wrong despite mounting evidence.

I thought he eventually did.

Can we lay off him? He's not even in this thread to defend himself.
mitchman
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(02-16-2017, 06:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Terrell

You were responding to a point being made about VP9's adoption into ALL devices. You isolated down to recently manufactured TVs, which likely only have support in 4K smart TVs that access YouTube. It's not even relevant commentary to what you responded to.

The direct quote I originally responded to: "It's why VP9 hardware acceleration still being present on the chipset is such a godsend. It's not seen on many chips due to a lack of widespread support from several industries (mostly due to Google's exclusive involvement in its creation), which means a VERY large CPU overhead to decode the video."

The TVs use off-the-shelf chips for VP9 decoding, chips that are 2+ years old. Nowhere did this mention "ALL devices" which you refer to above.
the androgyne
I win life.
(02-16-2017, 08:06 AM)
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Nintendo's accounts things has me thoroughly confused and my situation doesn't help!
I used to live in Australia so i have a NNID from there, and a Nintendo Account with Australia as the residence. Now i live in Japan, but have none of that for Japan yet.

Am I right in saying I could create 2 users on a Switch, link one to my old Australian Nintendo Account and another to a new Japanese Nintendo Account. Then, import AUD funds i've currently got on AU eShop, and also use the new Japanese Nintendo Account to buy stuff from JP eShop?

There'd be no point (and probably hassle) in changing the residence setting of my existing Nintendo Account to Japanese, would there?

The "import" makes it sounds like my AUD funds, once imported will no longer able to be used on my old AU 3DS or Wii U... Do we know if that's the case yet?

And, separate to any users & accounts, you can change the system language to change the game language? Per game I guess?
Last edited by the androgyne; 02-16-2017 at 08:09 AM.
Turrican3
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(02-16-2017, 09:36 AM)
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I'm 99.9% confident the wallet won't move between different regions.

The games purchased well, guess we'll see.
Lexxism
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(02-16-2017, 11:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Turrican3

I'm 99.9% confident the wallet won't move between different regions.

I'm pretty that the same thing on Sony and Microsoft.
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(02-16-2017, 09:49 PM)
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Is there any information on the transfer speed of the physical game cards? The OP shows the 32GB internal memory having max 400MB/s but I can't see anything about the physical cards.

Thinking about which SD card type to buy as it can be a minefield with read/write speeds (write should be less important)
arhra
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(02-16-2017, 10:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Terrell

I will stand corrected, Xbox One S added h.265 hardware acceleration to the Xbox One S exclusively. The original model does not possess it.

The original model actually got platform-level HEVC support (at least for Netflix and the like) via a software update back in 2015.

It's unclear as to whether that would be usable in games or not, however.

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