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Former Naughty Dog employee says he was sexually harassed by a lead in late 2015
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
ronaldthump
Member
which game dev house isn't full of crunch when the game is due to be shipped? Quality does not come easy
Just because someone else does that, doesn't mean it's justified.
What? Is that all you care about? Just enjoy your game then, but ND's legacy is not something you should be worried about in this case.
privitsan02
Member
While you are 100% right, look at the website we are on right now. If this crunch didn't exist, and their game shipped at even 80% of its quality, there would be outrage like you won't believe.
Delays alone get some of the worst kind of reactions not just around the web, but Gaf as well. AAA development isn't easy and it's not for everyone, which is why you have people like Jaffe, Straley and etc who backed away from it.
Either there's a crunch, broken game launches, unfinished products, extensive delays or we have a factory like Ubisoft.
Best wishes.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Gaming industry is such a shithole if "working inhuman hours" is the prerequisite of "good quality games" then.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
Man you make me really want to never support any AAA game with that attitude.
privitsan02
Member
Well you're looking strictly at AAA games.
This is why the indie development area has been growing so much over the last decade. As games get more and more expensive, it's becoming less and less sustainable. Developers aren't able to meet the deadlines with how big these projects are becoming.
This is why I personally wish more mid-range games were made. Somewhere between indie titles and AAA blockbusters. It's not helping consumers either with how sparse the releases have become compared to previous years.
I apologize if I'm making a statement that sounds like "that's exactly how it should be" as I'm opposed to this inhumane levels of work ethic as a project manager myself. I was pointing out why these types of project management exist in the industry in the first place.
Best wishes.
Acerac
Banned
If everyone does it that means it's nothing to be condemned.
They make video games that I like, after all.
Astral Dog
Member
Look, you don't have to 'worry', Naughty Dog games still going to sell millions and win those awards, and Sony isn't going to close down ok.
Astral Dog
Member
They make those games not only for business/sales but because of passion. At least thats what i believe and why those employees stay so many hours being exploited in the industry making those big games
The fact that this needs to be said at all is a shocking as it is appalling. Damn people, just don't be assholes.
This wasn't about "one person's actions." According to the accusation, this is a company-wide issue. The (alleged) offender was (allegedly) protected by HR and others working for the company at the expense of the (alleged) victim.
The abuse of power is rarely just about one person. It requires others around them that enable, defend, and support their abuse.
It actually is that easy. If this is a company that indeed turns out to have supported and defended an a-hole and threw his accuser under the bus, I'm totally fine walking away from a company that has made some of my favorite games. It's just a company, and there are lots of other great games in the world. And there will be more.
wumster3000
Member
*Flag* If True
Some people will not support them - like myself, depending what really happened and how it was really handled. I will condemn them, yes.
On the flip side, I will not tell people that they should boycott them because they have their own moral compass that they will apply. I may disagree wholeheartedly, but thats an arguement that neither party will win.
Shrugs sometimes video are not that important
I just feel like Sony as a whole owns too many things to avoid them completely. It's not just games. They have movies, music, TV shows, etc. Yes, you can purposely avoid their electronics, but everything else will be a lot more difficult.
It is really not that difficult. Don't buy their TVs, there are better and cheaper ones. Don't watch their movies they have been shit recently anyways. Don't listen to their music there are tons of artiste etc you don't need to be a fanboy for company. Sony doesn't even know J-Skee is a thing
I'm not a fanboy. I'm just trying to be realistic. You may come across a TV show that's produced by Sony & not know it. No one will be mad at you for that.
Acerac
Banned
It's not about somebody being mad at the people who would be avoiding Sony, it would be not purposely putting more money in the pockets of openly scummy people.
Did you think people protest solely to appear better to others? It's rare people push for the validity of virtue signaling on this board, but if that's your game far be it from me to stop you.
No, it's not my game. If that's how I came off to you, I'm sorry. All I'm saying is that if you're a person that consumes media, it's not going to be easy to avoid one of the bigger media conglomerates.
The unfortunate truth here is that if you boycott companies that have this stuff come out about them, you are actually largely rewarding companies that are just better at covering this shit up. Because stories like this have happened (and are happening now) at most large companies.
Thats not to say you shouldnt do as your conscience demands you do. You absolutely should. Its just a sobering reminder about how invasive these issues are.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Um, how the fuck does crunch equal quality? Such an ignorant statement.
if you are so ideological, maybe you should throw in a trash can your smartphone/laptop/pc then? Because many components for them was made by using slave labor in some African countries:
Chris_Rivera
Member
How on earth would this being true affect the quality of the games? The art is not the artist
WaterAstro
Member
The simple thinking is crunch = more work, more work = quality, but the quality of the work may not produce quality results. It really depends on, but, one thing is for sure, it's shitty to the employees.
I don't use apple Sony or Samsung from that article. Thank you for your concern tho..it's always amusing that when someone states they are ok with not doing something, someone else has to come and states a whole bunch of shit that has nothing to do with it. Life is not black and white, I can only do what I can do within my means. I am sorry it bother you so much that you had to goggle links to try to make me feel bad boo.
It's not only "Apple, Sony or Samsung". Basically all electronics.
Again missing the point of doing what I can. I don't need entertainment to survive. I need my phone and laptop to work. I am sorry that me not wanting to have anything to do with Sony until things clears up bothers you that much.
CannonFodder52
Member
Even if crunch actually resulted in higher quality games, screw that.
We don't need video games at the cost of developers families and lives.
Dude, this is the video game industry. Crunch is rampant at pretty much every game studio around. I agree that it sucks that families suffer because of it, but in 2017 crunch is just a fact of life.
Unless this was something the whole studio knew about and tried to cover up in some kind of conspiracy, I don't see this would/should affect their legacy. The situation has nothing to do with their games.
CannonFodder52
Member
Sure, it just feels gross when consumers practically celebrate crunch.
Liliana Eileen
Member
Exactly, because it's not a requirement.
Omotesando
Member
So what do we need to care for? Please tell us.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
TBH, assuming no conspiracy cover-up (which I consider to be unlikely anyway), this very sad situation only seems to concern the victim, the asshole perpetrator of his harassment, and the HR rep who failed to log the victim's allegation of harassment for whatever reason.
Obviously there are plenty of talented and more importantly innocent people at ND, who had no idea about this harassment and shouldn't be thrown under the bus for the sins of one asshole.
If more victims of the alleged harasser start to come forwards, then there'd be more reason to believe that the problem was more far reaching within ND than the three involved people mentioned.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I'm not necessarily boycotting ND/Sony myself but why the hell are people concerned about those who are? Like, who the fuck cares what other people decide to do with their money?
I recommend a healthier approach to this situation: If David was brave enough to come forward with this allegations, is because -I think- like other victims of sexual harassment, he have profe about it. Like someone post it in here (that worked at HR), there is always a trace of the things that went down. Because sexual predators have a psychopathological misconduct, others have suffer like David. So maybe David, will give some others the courage to speak up if he unfortunately has no proof of the issue. In the other hand, people lie and seek attention so maybe as hard as it sound, David could be making this up, to gain attention and another bunch of reasons. Maybe David had a bad time at ND and he is angry at this person, etc.
Nor Sony or ND (same company) are saints or martyrs or SJW. They are a company which ends are to acquire money no matter what. So lets wait to see how the situation evolve. Boycotting a game, selling all Sony's or ND products wont make things better. This is a systemic problem.
Nor Sony or ND (same company) are saints or martyrs or SJW. They are a company which ends are to acquire money no matter what. So lets wait to see how the situation evolve. Boycotting a game, selling all Sony's or ND products wont make things better. This is a systemic problem.
You ever been in a review/Metacritic thread? People are VERY concerned with the income of multi million dollar companies.
Kotaku has additional reporting: https://kotaku.com/former-naughty-dog-employee-says-he-was-fired-after-fil-1819557683
Such a sad situation.
I don't know if ND/Sony are completely int the wrong here or if this person was so burnt by the constant state of pressure (per Kotaku recent report) that he might have taken things out of proportion.
The only I believe is that the way AAA game companies work can't be a sustainable way. Studios will inevitably collapse financially or humanly (and somethings both).
I don't know if ND/Sony are completely int the wrong here or if this person was so burnt by the constant state of pressure (per Kotaku recent report) that he might have taken things out of proportion.
The only I believe is that the way AAA game companies work can't be a sustainable way. Studios will inevitably collapse financially or humanly (and somethings both).
Sho_Nuff82
Member
America, land of the idgaf about workers rights.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Aaaahhh, so all those women must have been overreacting to enthusiastic Hellos then right?
Gosh darn these silly people and their overreactions to warm welcomes.
Most major industries face incredible amounts of crunch. They rely on fresh blood annually to keep the rest industry running like a well oiled machine. See Finance, Tech, Law and many other fields.
Yes, but at the same time most of this industries are the "ultimate" stage in paycheck terms.
A lot of those that are burned dream of making big bucks (or are even making it).
In the case of game development people keep doing it mostly because of passion. Almost everyone with senior experience could be making more money and (comparatively)working less in other field.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
It doesn't help that my understanding of "crunch" seems to be completely wrong. Reading this article about Amy Hennig: https://kotaku.com/sounds-like-naughty-dog-s-uncharted-crunch-was-brutal-1787505619 Sounds almost unbelievable. 80 hours a week for a decade straight!? I always thought crunch was 12/14 hour days for the last ~month of dev on a 3-5 year cycle....
AAA Single player experienced are becoming obsolete, slowly but surely. Just look at The Evil Within 2's sales, people may be concerned that boycotting Naughty Dog will not only hurt the good employees who work their and make these amazing games (and who have nothing to do with this incident if true), but that low sales could lead ND in a different direction or negatively effect the production or development of ND games and the studio itself.
ND has the advantage of being a first party studio where sales isn't the only thing on the mind when making games
Negotiator
Member
In which direction exactly? Could they become more MP-focused, perhaps?
Resident_UA
Member
What are you talking about? What women? That wasn't what I was saying at all. I was asking what actually happened because sometimes people misunderstand each other. And sometimes there's blatant sexual assault. Once again it does not excuse the employer because they need to take action either way, but it's important to know.