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Should we boycott Shadow Complex?
- Thread starter Coins
- Start date
He's one of many people involved in this project. If you were to find out the views of all involved in projects of your favorite games and movies you'd no doubt find at least a few racist, homophobic, and generally batshit insane or intolerant views.
But punishing a group for the views of a likely minority doesn't make much sense to me. You're like the teacher who doesn't give the class candy because one kid was bad. "I'm sorry, you ruined it for everybody."
If it was something like a book then I could understand, where the involvement in the project is mainly Card.
But punishing a group for the views of a likely minority doesn't make much sense to me. You're like the teacher who doesn't give the class candy because one kid was bad. "I'm sorry, you ruined it for everybody."
If it was something like a book then I could understand, where the involvement in the project is mainly Card.
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
Big-E said:
Apparently this is a hard concept to grasp. I'm not sure why.
BobTheFork
Member
I think it's a different point on some level. Religion can really take a hold on people's lives. That's isn't an excuse by any means but if you brought up a certain way, it can be very hard to come to terms with progressive society. I still have a few people in my family who aren't racist, or sexist and I wouldn't call them homophobic. They have Gay freinds and co-workers, but when you specifically bring up marriage they just lock up. They don't even think unions should be excluded, they just think 'marriage' should be a man and a woman and we should find another term for same sex couples *shrugs*. I disagree with them, but these aren't bad people, they just have defined their world. We should help them understand better, not just label them as them may label others. I hope that sounded right :/FlyinJ said:
Mercury Fred
Banned
To repeat, an opinion is not the same thing as an organized, highly funded campaign to not block the granting of rights, but to strip individuals of rights they already legally had.Smash88 said:
So yeah, get this through your thick fucking skulls.
Also, if the dev team wanted to pledge a portion of the proceeds of this game to repeal Prop 8, I'd buy it then.
ShockingAlberto said:
Chair is in Salt Lake City - it is fairly likely that some, if not a majority, of the team has similar views, if not to the same degree. As I understand it, there is a reason Card works with Chair, and it's entirely related to their mutual faith.
That said, I think it's silly to boycott this game because of Card's radical views. It's unlikely that everyone at Chair is a professional homophobe.
If it still does bother you, I think GayGamer's donation suggestion is the way to go.
duckroll said:
They are business partners and have a long standing business relationship. The writing of OSC doesn't portray a lot of anti-gay sentiment and it seems that Chair Entertainment primarily uses OSC for his writing. You seem to be inventing this scenario in your mind where two people work together must share the same views on this one aspect that you are cherry picking.
I infer that Chair and OSC do share common views, and those views are what show up in their products that are a result of their collaboration. You can believe what you want about someone but at some point you have to realize that you can't be open minded about only certain things.
Night_Trekker
Member
No, Shadow Complex looks great. I'll be playing it at some point, and I won't shed a single, progressive tear because it might, in some small way, validate OSC.
In fact, I'll keep buying OSC books because he's a damn good writer! And I'll still shake my head every time I read about his views on homosexuality, which are obviously all about his religious beliefs despite his insistence that they aren't.
I have seen nothing to indicate he's a "homophobe", so using that term to describe him is disingenuous, yes. His views on homosexuality (as if his opinion mattered at all, considering he's a straight guy) are painfully ignorant, but I'll need more before I'll say he's afraid of gay people.
In fact, I'll keep buying OSC books because he's a damn good writer! And I'll still shake my head every time I read about his views on homosexuality, which are obviously all about his religious beliefs despite his insistence that they aren't.
FlyinJ said:
I have seen nothing to indicate he's a "homophobe", so using that term to describe him is disingenuous, yes. His views on homosexuality (as if his opinion mattered at all, considering he's a straight guy) are painfully ignorant, but I'll need more before I'll say he's afraid of gay people.
There are a lot of people in here making some big presumptions.
- Chair is in Utah so they all must be Mormons
- OSC wrote some or all of the 50 lines of dialog for chair so all the employees of chair must also hate gays
- Chair and OSC are going to take all the money from the game and give it to some hateful organization
- All Mormons have the same beliefs as OSC.
- Chair is in Utah so they all must be Mormons
- OSC wrote some or all of the 50 lines of dialog for chair so all the employees of chair must also hate gays
- Chair and OSC are going to take all the money from the game and give it to some hateful organization
- All Mormons have the same beliefs as OSC.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Well, friend, there's a reason why you have that tag and I have a sweet Samurai Pizza Cats tag.Mutagenic said:
And it's because I used my Saturn royalties to bribe the mods
Worst thread? Maybe, but only because of replies like yours. Yes, that is a valid reason not to buy a game. But I guess this falls on deaf ears to people like you who don't give more than an ounce of thought to things, bumble along in their ignorance and are afraid to live in the real world.Wizpig said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That argument rather misses the point and doesn't make sense anyways. The ultimate issue has little to do with whether the game is any good or not. The fact is, at some point, someone in charge chose to associate the game with a controversial figure like OSC, and to give him money. Giving Shadow Complex money is directly financially supporting Card, and as someone that thinks the slippery-slope nonsense arguments that Card likes to spout are idiotic, hateful nonsense, I can't honestly say, "It doesn't matter because the game is good."
It sounds to me like a lot of the arguments I'm seeing are just explaining away Card's involvement to gloss over the fact that people don't really care enough about who or what Card is in order to not buy it.
lol @ all the "i dont care who/what made the game as long as its good ill buy it" people
you guys would buy furniture put together in concentration camps made by Hitler Inc. too?
who cares about his views right ? they make damn good tables
it DOES matter how products are made or whos associated with them for fucks sake
you guys would buy furniture put together in concentration camps made by Hitler Inc. too?
who cares about his views right ? they make damn good tables
it DOES matter how products are made or whos associated with them for fucks sake
noonan said:
Can't be. Apparently the whole game was just made by a big ball of gay hate somewhere in Utah. :lol
Honestly people, the accusations against Chair employees are pretty fucking ridiculous. You don't like OSC's views? Great, but what's with the 'they must hate gays too' garbage?
Holy fuck, look up the word 'defamation' some time.
MrHicks said:
WHAT? OSC is killing gays in ovens now?
Does the man's hatred know no boundaries?
CultureClearance
Banned
You boycott what you think you should. It's that easy and it's that simple.
I thank you for enlightening me about Mr. Card's....uhh...perspective and I'll probably never buy one of his books or mention them in a good light to people like I used to...BUT i think boycotting shadow complex is a stretch. That's my view and it has nothing to do with what you take personally or find too repulsive. That's your call.
I thank you for enlightening me about Mr. Card's....uhh...perspective and I'll probably never buy one of his books or mention them in a good light to people like I used to...BUT i think boycotting shadow complex is a stretch. That's my view and it has nothing to do with what you take personally or find too repulsive. That's your call.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Indeed. It's been said before, but the art and artist must be considered separate. It's perfectly fine to base decisions to purchase something on any reasoning you choose. Whether it actually results in anything meaningful outside of purchaser's head, well, that's debatable...but it's totally up to the purchaser and that's all that matters. People, however, should not talk shit to someone who couldn't give a fuck about all that other shit and just wants to buy something for its entertainment value (or whatever). Me, I have no regrets about buying the game...and I know all about Card's craziness and the Mormon folks behind it. I don't care...I just want a great game to play.GashPrex said:
toxicgonzo
Taxes?! Isn't this the line for Metallica?
I never thought much of Shadow Complex 'til I saw this topic.
So I checked it out on IGN and the game looks great.
Thanks, I'm gonna buy it tonight.
So I checked it out on IGN and the game looks great.
Thanks, I'm gonna buy it tonight.
BobTheFork
Member
Swedes accepted the gold from Nazis, GOD save you're tained soul if you have any Ikea in your house!!!!!!MrHicks said:
Glib, angry opinion are why there can't be much real discussion here.
GashPrex said:
In the interests of full disclosure, we probably need that for every poster on Neogaf as well. You have to know where what you're reading comes from, after all.
Also known and casual associates, as well as co-workers, because if you work with someone you obviously share their views.
honeymustardn
Member
FromTheFuture said:
I don't really care about the game or the guy, but from reading the OP, it sounds like by buying this game, you are giving money to a notorious homophobe. And only an idiot would do that.
magicalsoundshower said:
:lol :lol :lol
BTW, I totally understand and respect anyone who chooses not to buy this game. Clearly Chair is tied in closely with this guy over multiple games, which leads me to believe they (the higher ups) are probably closely aligned with Card and his terrible views.
This thread is really interesting. I'm in school right now, but my part time job is at an Outback steakhouse, who gives tons of money to conservative causes that I vehimently disagree with. I also order pizza from Dominos, who has given money to the freaks that bomb abortion clinics.
I don't see Shadow Complex coming to the PS3 anytime soon, so I'm automatically out of the question. But I can see why people feel both ways on boycotting it.
One point I'd like to repeat that a lot of people are missing though is, people don't want to boycott this game just because Card is insane, its because he uses his influence and money to help get his insane views enforced and that buying the game would send money to a very active bigot's doorstep. That's what people don't want.
So the "soooo many people who make stuff could feel the same as Card does" point doesn't really work, because "soooo many people" don't have the same means that Card does.
One point I'd like to repeat that a lot of people are missing though is, people don't want to boycott this game just because Card is insane, its because he uses his influence and money to help get his insane views enforced and that buying the game would send money to a very active bigot's doorstep. That's what people don't want.
So the "soooo many people who make stuff could feel the same as Card does" point doesn't really work, because "soooo many people" don't have the same means that Card does.
CultureClearance
Banned
BobTheFork said:
No, horrible metaphors and analogies that don't work in the situation that's being discussed or in the quotation that you're commenting on is the reason why real discussion can't be discussed here.
I love your avatar
I`ve debated this topic quite heavily in the last week, both sides have good points. However, in the end I`m not going to purchase this game for one fundamental reason:
1. I don`t want to give Card any of my money.
Sucks that I`ll miss out on an awesome game, but there`s plenty more out there to enjoy.
1. I don`t want to give Card any of my money.
Sucks that I`ll miss out on an awesome game, but there`s plenty more out there to enjoy.
I find this topic to be very interesting.
Being scandinavian I have personally never come across Card's work or any of his personal views.
After reading the post in this thread that actually attempted to bring something to the discussion I don't think I can support this game. I base this on the information that Card is an active and public figure in organisations such as NOM.
I don't think this is a simple issue, since from what I've read the game itself does not contain any of Card's personal views. Which, to me, means that I have no problem with the game itself, but rather with Chair's choice to use Card.
Don't know about most people, but I think that having the information and making a choice based on it is better than not having the information at all. I'm glad the OP brought this to my attention.
Being scandinavian I have personally never come across Card's work or any of his personal views.
After reading the post in this thread that actually attempted to bring something to the discussion I don't think I can support this game. I base this on the information that Card is an active and public figure in organisations such as NOM.
I don't think this is a simple issue, since from what I've read the game itself does not contain any of Card's personal views. Which, to me, means that I have no problem with the game itself, but rather with Chair's choice to use Card.
Don't know about most people, but I think that having the information and making a choice based on it is better than not having the information at all. I'm glad the OP brought this to my attention.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Eh, so Card is a fucking moron, has very little to do with the hard work other people put into the game. Want to boycott Card? Don't read his stuff or, even better, ignore him altogether.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
i am disgusted by this man.
1 - i will no longer buy shadow complex
2 - i will never buy a product from epic again for working with a public figure who promotes such utter hateful crap
3 - my copies of gears 2, gears, and unreal are going to be traded in.
For an educated man to have such an opinion in the age we currently live in is sickening. As a gay man i cannot give my money to any company who see's value in the sorts of people who would bring more inequality to our world.
Sorry epic, but i cannot buy your products while you make this man rich.
people can have their opinion... fine... but this guy has been on record - basically lobbying for hatred.
it saddens me but i will not be able to bring myself to touch their products now.
1 - i will no longer buy shadow complex
2 - i will never buy a product from epic again for working with a public figure who promotes such utter hateful crap
3 - my copies of gears 2, gears, and unreal are going to be traded in.
For an educated man to have such an opinion in the age we currently live in is sickening. As a gay man i cannot give my money to any company who see's value in the sorts of people who would bring more inequality to our world.
Sorry epic, but i cannot buy your products while you make this man rich.
people can have their opinion... fine... but this guy has been on record - basically lobbying for hatred.
it saddens me but i will not be able to bring myself to touch their products now.
Wow ... anyways, been playing Shadow Complex to death today. It's an awesome game, and I recommend everyone who enjoys good games to buy it.
There are much much better ways to deal with this Card fellow than to try to boycott this game.
Ah well ... back to the game!
Edit poster above is going loonie. :lol
There are much much better ways to deal with this Card fellow than to try to boycott this game.
Ah well ... back to the game!
Edit poster above is going loonie. :lol
MikeOfTheLivingDead
Grapetastic!
Calcaneus said:
I don't think this is lost on anyone. What you are missing is that people just don't give a crap.