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Dark Souls Mafia |OT| Git Gud or Die Trying
- Thread starter squidyj
- Start date
oreomunsta
Banned
sure, i can be all over the place and generally don't make much sense
but i always try to have a consistent vote
it was more about the phrasing
it happening in day 1 it probably means nothing but ive seen it before
hey_monkey
Banned
Muffin, I'll offer this, since I had to learn it the hard way - instead of putting all your energy into defending yourself and why you are not scum, help us find out who is. So don't just tell us you're suspicious of who is coming for you unless that matters; tell us who you think we need to kill.
Muffin1611
Banned
Well, that's the problem. There aren't that many who I think are scum. There are too many who are just barely there for me.
We have Nin and Oreo who I already elaborated on. I'm gonna exclude Oreo from a possible lynch today for me, as I think that he might be the most likely neutral candidate and as the neutral ignited last night, isn't an immediate priority for me. There's also the fact that Scum hasn't accidently tried to NK the neutral yet, which could come in handy when the chance is constantly getting bigger that they do. So behaviour that might indicate that somebody is the neutral isn't as much as a concern to me today.
So Nin. The problem here is that it's entirely based on my read on him on D1 and his behaviour change starting then. Nothing of note has happened later. Well, besides the turbo which seemed accidental to me. Still my strongest scummy read, which speaks volumes for the amount of people who I can't classify.
The other people who I would be okay with if somebody pushed their lynch would be kitsune and rac. Problem here is kitsune is mostly a gut read and rac is just a possibility for me because he's just there. I don't think he's acting scummy, and at that point I would be getting into meta-reading about how likely it is that scum is hiding under low activity. And I don't know how productive that would be.
So when you guys say (yeah, I know, now I'm getting into defending again, I'm sorry) my offense is bad that's because I'm genuinely lost besides the average scummy read I have on Nin.
Muffin1611
Banned
No negative ones, no. Falls in the same category as rac really with the rare good post sometimes.
isaacnukem
Member
How is it good town play in this case when there was no inconceivable way that CM wasn't who she claimed to be and Stan wasn't who he joked he was?
There's a 1% chance you can sell me to an idea that they're both scum, Stan wants out of the game in a spectacular fashion, and wants to plant CM as a hypno. But, only 1 anti-town is dead, so we know for a fact CM was who she claimed she was and Stan is a Darkwraith.
Hardly a town play when it's all laid out clearly like that.
isaacnukem
Member
He has a great personality, is handsome on good days and I hear he has a big, golden heart
hey_monkey
Banned
CM is still a he. Please pay attention to pronouns. And there is no way we can know for sure who the scum was. Is it highly probable it was Stan? Yes. Certain? No.
isaacnukem
Member
You're on that list too
isaacnukem
Member
Sorry for that. Anyway, yes there is. He claimed Darkwraith. Are you saying two townies did all that jig? For what?
hey_monkey
Banned
Nah, they want y'all to think I'm the Godfather.You're on that list too
No, I'm saying that we don't have regular flips so knowing 100% is impossible. Just being pedantic.
Well most of the time the most obvious thing is also the truth.
isaacnukem
Member
Dying faster, are you referring to the arsonist? I think the no lynch benefits the arsonist because they'll less likely be lynched(that's the only way they can die) but I'm not so sure they would be so brazen to push the no lynch agenda. Looks like the neutral is playing a good game anyway.
If I have to hazard a guess, the neutral is a vet. Who are the vets in this game? Because CM and Trigger are so out of the field choices I think the player is familiar with these two.
isaacnukem
Member
I'm afraid the world will end when two great things meet. Nothing good stays on this world. Maybe we could push daisies and buy a ton of plastic, just to be safe?
isaacnukem
Member
Confirmation bias? What are you looking for?
isaacnukem
Member
Very much worth pursuing, but it could also be the case where the claim triggered(heh) the arsonist. Still worth pursuing. Why can't we have post histories on this site.
Also, thanks for the elaborate post as a whole, answered my question above.
isaacnukem
Member
These two aren't mutually exclusive. General good town play is looking for scum while not doing scummy antics, so if people are suspecting you then you might not be doing as good as a job as you think. People usually forgive people with good reads for misgivings unless they're glaring like voting patterns which is concrete data or bad jokes, slips, whathaveyou. It's fun being a townie in Mafia, it's my favorite alignment because I like playing detective, but that doesn't mean we could act brashly and still think people believe we are town, in unwavering faith. You can't just say you're town and people will believe you. You also have to walk the walk. I've been in your shoes before, I must commend your patience, but please, remove the notion that it isn't your job to prove yourself as town if you're town, because every thing you say and do matters.
isaacnukem
Member
We can't just blindly follow anyone, unless you have a good claim or a good case. CM claimed he was a hypno, it followed through when Stan claimed Darkwraith. We hammered. Something like that. Build a better case instead of just feeling. Feelings will get you a solitary vote on another person, and you can only hope some people will feel the same or will have the same suspicions or have built better cases against the person yo want to lynch.
I'm an example of a feels guy. Remember Infamous? I felt right off the bat, Zippedpinhead's first post was scum. I hounded him through the whole game, and in the end, turned out I was right. But I wasn't able to get him lynched because my read started and ended with "I felt his post was just recapping already known things so to appear townie, he posted this, which is a weird way to start the game".
hey_monkey
Banned
Well, I am lounging in the bath and drinking an old fashioned, which is probably a pretty godfathery thing to do so who knows. 😘🍸
But it's also the kind of thing I can't defend against at all. No one can, really; that's the whole jam of that role, so we just gotta play and see what shakes out.
Sorry. :<
hmmmm
I don't believe I have enough to contribute to the conversation right now, but I would be good to lynch either Muffin or kits.
I've stated before that my gut read had them as scum, even if I didn't provide a lot to back it up. I was wrong about Verelios, though, so there's that
There's a lot of good cases being made for Muffin, but I'm leaning towards a kits lynch. The reason why is actually fep's statement on LB activity. I'm trusting fep, because I've seen him be scum in anime mafia, and this is a different fep.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
following someone's read based purely on trust sounds like blind faith to me.
The only people left who would know CM and Trigger on a meta-level would probably be myself, Nin, and potentially FEP.
Also, in my failed tin-foil hate theory on the Arsonist I'd hazard a guess that they just aimed for people who weren't in the spotlight and had the least likelihood of dying to cause maximum fuckery for everyone. If you'll allow me a massive assumption, I'd guess they burrowed CM N1 and then Trigger N2 since CM was generally Town-Read at the end of Day 1 and Trigger was in the voting crossover and wouldn't have been a good Neutral target. Both were in the lower post counts and those folks don't typically get NKed or Lynched until late game. :x
You've been bringin up the Godfather a lot...
could this mean you're secretly
THE NEUTRAL?? O:
and before you all get into a fit, yes i'm joking
hey_monkey
Banned
I'm actually the town hooker who is also a neutral godfather.
Good catch on oreo's phrasing.
Also can we talk about how Muffin is mad at people reading him for some shit that started d1 while he is out here voting nin for some shit that started d1? 🤔
Good catch on oreo's phrasing.
Also can we talk about how Muffin is mad at people reading him for some shit that started d1 while he is out here voting nin for some shit that started d1? 🤔
Vote: Kitsunlaine
( ._.)
I keep arguing with myself back and forth on Muffin and having read over his last few responses, and those who discussed him, I'm...not feeling as confident? I said as much in my reads list that I don't like his early game and he only really steps up when called out but the issue is I really find no fault with any of his posts once he steps up and gets his thoughts out. I Town Read some of them, like this one:
or this one:
And while I disagree with his push for a Nin lynch I can follow his logic and when he's pushed for more elaborate answers he can give them, it just takes pushing to get there which is rather frustrating. I would still like to see more elaboration on some of his thoughts ( his FEP one for example and why he's less sure on his read of me ) but
I don't know. Part of me still says Scum but every time he posts something comprehensive I start to doubt that and hesitate to lynch him. He may just be doing a really good job at playing defender because that's all he has to be invested in but I'm willing to give it some more time, I guess. Especially if he keeps up this level of activity.
Now why move to Kits? Well, before the ghost of Vere appears to yell at me, it's a pressure vote. Also because Oreo already has a push on him and I want Kits in here more and doing some detective work. Still going in on Nin for 2 Day Phases doesn't give me much and I want thoughts on other Players.
( ._.)
I keep arguing with myself back and forth on Muffin and having read over his last few responses, and those who discussed him, I'm...not feeling as confident? I said as much in my reads list that I don't like his early game and he only really steps up when called out but the issue is I really find no fault with any of his posts once he steps up and gets his thoughts out. I Town Read some of them, like this one:
or this one:
And while I disagree with his push for a Nin lynch I can follow his logic and when he's pushed for more elaborate answers he can give them, it just takes pushing to get there which is rather frustrating. I would still like to see more elaboration on some of his thoughts ( his FEP one for example and why he's less sure on his read of me ) but
I don't know. Part of me still says Scum but every time he posts something comprehensive I start to doubt that and hesitate to lynch him. He may just be doing a really good job at playing defender because that's all he has to be invested in but I'm willing to give it some more time, I guess. Especially if he keeps up this level of activity.
Now why move to Kits? Well, before the ghost of Vere appears to yell at me, it's a pressure vote. Also because Oreo already has a push on him and I want Kits in here more and doing some detective work. Still going in on Nin for 2 Day Phases doesn't give me much and I want thoughts on other Players.
hey_monkey
Banned
I keep going back and forth on Muffin. I will organize my thoughts in a bit. Your vote is missing a letter, though.
oops, thank you.
Vote: kitsunelaine
Also, please do. I'm kinda going either way and more input would be appreciated.
hey_monkey
Banned
Had to finish my whiskey drank. Priorities.
Muffin1611
Banned
Difference being that I imo defended myself against the line of questioning of me seeming not engaged with solving the game several times now.
I don't remember that I ever heard something from Nin about why he suddenly quieted down so much after that D1 display. Seems to avoid defending himself there.
Anyway, gonna have to sleep now!
hey_monkey
Banned
Night, Muffin, we will probably not kill you right now. >.>
Yeah, Sawneeks, I keep going back and forth. My gut wants me to say town, newer player trying to figure out what's up. Starting with Love Boat 2 and then this has gotta mess with your head. They're not normal games.
But that would also be true if Muffin is scum here. Without a scum chat and no real guidance or a test bed, that's gotta be strange. Especially if he feels ganged up on but can't communicate to others.
But I do see a lot of my a-few-games-ago self in Muffin. There's some good effort but also some hypocrisy, some tunnel vision, some (too much) focus on defense.
But the questions I'm left with are:
If Muffin IS NOT scum, who is? besides kits, who I'm pretty keen on here.
If Muffin is NOT scum, why vote nin? I mean, really. (Then again, if Muffin is scum, WHY VOTE NIN?)
Is Muffin the neutral and just trying to stay alive?
Yeah, Sawneeks, I keep going back and forth. My gut wants me to say town, newer player trying to figure out what's up. Starting with Love Boat 2 and then this has gotta mess with your head. They're not normal games.
But that would also be true if Muffin is scum here. Without a scum chat and no real guidance or a test bed, that's gotta be strange. Especially if he feels ganged up on but can't communicate to others.
But I do see a lot of my a-few-games-ago self in Muffin. There's some good effort but also some hypocrisy, some tunnel vision, some (too much) focus on defense.
But the questions I'm left with are:
If Muffin IS NOT scum, who is? besides kits, who I'm pretty keen on here.
If Muffin is NOT scum, why vote nin? I mean, really. (Then again, if Muffin is scum, WHY VOTE NIN?)
Is Muffin the neutral and just trying to stay alive?
flatearthpandas
Member
Wut
What?
Obviously they weren't both scum. And that 1% idea is exactly why hammering was good town play. He should have been hammered immediately when he claimed scum. Every second he's then not hammered is time wasted waffling about maybe talking ourselves into lynching CM first and leaving the outed scum alive or something equally stupid.
Who are you burrowing tonight, btdubs?
oreomunsta
Banned
Lol you don't miss a thing, Sawn
Yeah, I do trust fep's intentions and a lot of his reads, but not everything. If you want to go through it, you'll see that I do not follow fep blindly on everything he does.
hey_monkey
Banned
Welp, unless something changes or a new case surfaces tomorrow, I feel okay with my vote.
hey_monkey
Banned
Here's my one hesitation. I feel pretty strongly about kits. She just hasn't played a town game. But with Stan a likely scum, then the other scum + neutral top suspects being Muffin, isaac, and oreo? The entire anti-town team made up of newer posters plus Stan, and all of them lower volume? Those are some long odds. It could happen. But it's likely there's someone else in the mix.
isaacnukem
Member
I think some people actually did want a CM lynch but that's a silly notion to entertain after Stan claimed. We didn't get swayed. All that's left was for us to wait for Stan's lynch. I wouldn't be surprised if he had all his teammates and the neutral voting for him. It was a free bandwagon. There was no saving him.
What I'm trying to say is with the open setup nature of the game, after Stan claimed, everything was set in stone.
isaacnukem
Member
Could it be a certain you?
kitsunelaine
Banned
What I think is very interesting is that Monkey jumps in to defend Nin against anyone who has suspicions about him.
Because in order to catch scum we need to be able to read scum. And reading scum entails knowing how they have to play if they wish to communicate with one another and strategize.
Except for the point that that is factually untrue. I have focused my VOTNG on one specific player. But my suspicions are on record as extending beyond you. And I have talked about things outside of you. But I guess that's hard for you to see when you're on the defensive.
Do we really need personal attacks Nin? Is that where we're going now? I guess this is an important part of strategy to turn town against me, but it seems very scummy.
Alright, now that I'm actually here today:
Your read was interesting. I am tunneling, but I think I'm tunneling for good reasons, and very strongly think Nin is scum. However. I have gone on record changing my vote when circumstances present a clearer target, but what I did was change back when that target became hotly contested and incredibly messy.
If I were scum, what I wouldn't be doing right now is pushing my own personal target when everyone else is talking about lynching other people. That would paint a fairly obvious target on my head. What I would be doing if I were scum is relying on other people's reads, and probing people based on them, acting as if I'm following up on a lead rather than relying on my own.
Because in order to catch scum we need to be able to read scum. And reading scum entails knowing how they have to play if they wish to communicate with one another and strategize.
Except for the point that that is factually untrue. I have focused my VOTNG on one specific player. But my suspicions are on record as extending beyond you. And I have talked about things outside of you. But I guess that's hard for you to see when you're on the defensive.
Do we really need personal attacks Nin? Is that where we're going now? I guess this is an important part of strategy to turn town against me, but it seems very scummy.
Alright, now that I'm actually here today:
Your read was interesting. I am tunneling, but I think I'm tunneling for good reasons, and very strongly think Nin is scum. However. I have gone on record changing my vote when circumstances present a clearer target, but what I did was change back when that target became hotly contested and incredibly messy.
If I were scum, what I wouldn't be doing right now is pushing my own personal target when everyone else is talking about lynching other people. That would paint a fairly obvious target on my head. What I would be doing if I were scum is relying on other people's reads, and probing people based on them, acting as if I'm following up on a lead rather than relying on my own.
hey_monkey
Banned
I laid out a case for nin as neutral suspect. Did you miss that?
kitsunelaine
Banned
Must have missed it. Won't be able to dig much deeper today because election polls here close in a half hour and I'll be watching the coverage which will probably be super exhausting.
flatearthpandas
Member
I want to comment on kits really quick. It's meta but actually in lb she reached very aggressively to pressure. Like an offensive defense, huge bursts of activity. Wanted to see her under pressure today and others were kind enough to throw some on her. She took it pretty well i thought, which makes me feel pretty good about her.
do you think that could explain the votes going the way they did day 1 and 2 with no solid lynch target
lots of meta talk today, more than ive ever seen before hmmm
hey_monkey
Banned
Meta is all well and good but we need to look at this game, too. She's missing stuff, not engaged, not invested. Trying to lynch someone while not aware of half the conversations around them. Creating narratives around others, either purposely or because she mixed up players. I'm not really seeing any pro-town behavior and that you'd defend her based on meta and not this game seems off for you, too.
hey_monkey
Banned
Muffin1611
Banned
So, I guess I'd lynch either Nin or kitsune today. The latters case seems to be the most shared (besides mine) right now, so I guess that's where I'll vote if nobody else sees Nin as a viable option.
I'm a bit confused that my case on Nin seems so weak to you guys. Could be me tunneling, but he's the srongest impression I got.
I'm a bit confused that my case on Nin seems so weak to you guys. Could be me tunneling, but he's the srongest impression I got.
What does pretty good mean? How she reacted under pressure just undermined my general negative impression I had about her.
She took a well meant criticism personal and overlooked monkey's take on me being the neutral.
Please respond as soon as you can
hey_monkey
Banned
Either overlooked or confused me with Sawneeks, who is the one who was defending you, because me defending you fits into her prepackaged narrative.
It's SO out of touch with the game that it could just be lack of engagement. Could be scummy. Regardless I'm hoping we see some activity before the deadline today.
It's SO out of touch with the game that it could just be lack of engagement. Could be scummy. Regardless I'm hoping we see some activity before the deadline today.
It's is and never was a personal attack. It was a well meant criticism. Since the way you played or keep playing is not really good looking. I tried to help.
One last thing. You brought those votes on yourself. I did not have to move a muscle.
I know this won't happen but I hope you will open your eyes a bit after you find out that I am indeed town and don't come after me saying that it was everyones else mistake.