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MMA |OT2| - Thread of Athletes, Fighters, Personalities, and Sports Entertainment
- Thread starter yacobod
- Start date
Damn, it appears all of MMA's champions can be discredited with hindsight.yacobod said:using the benefit of hindsight u can say the same about GSP.
dan hardy has lost 3 fights in a row since his fight with gsp and he's been finished by 2 out of those 3 opponents. gsp said it was hard to finish good fighters
thiago alves has went on to lose 2 out of his last 3 fights after the gsp fight. even losing to the likes of rick story.
gsp best career win was over bj penn. and as blasphemous as it of me to say it, 170 ain't his best weight class.
matt serra lost 3 out of his last 4 fights since gsp.
matt hughes has gotten KOd pretty violently twice since gsp.
clearly all those guys were never any good either.
hindsight is a bitch.
TheNatural
My Member!
Chamber said:
Yes, in all of 2004 and 2003 in other organizations, not four years ago in the UFC like GSP.
Chamber said:
Hahaha...I wonder how TheNatural will feel when some uneducated fan 5 years from now wonders how Anderson can be the greatest of all time...beating the likes of Lutter, Cote, Leites and Irvin. "How were these guy ranked?! LOL he fought a bunch of cans!"
It all comes full circle.
This all goes back to the original argument. People discrediting Fedor's legacy are looking at it from the rearview mirror and have no basis to defend their opinion to the bitter end. Enjoy your revisionist history, fickle fans.
TheNatural
My Member!
Chamber said:
Yes because it would be such a difficult task for him to destroy both those guys in whatever Japanese gymnasium organization they're fighting in nowadays. He hasn't been beat in the octagon or anywhere close to recently, that's all that matters.
TheNatural
My Member!
Chamber said:
Unavenged losses don't mean shit. When GSP can go 7 years without a loss of any kind, then we'll talk.
Here's the gist of this. Fedor is considered by his peers one of the greatest, and in some cases the greatest, MMA fighter ever. Now, why would I or anyone else take the opinion of people who never stepped into a ring more seriously than people who make a living inside it?sien916 said:
This puzzles me to no end. It''s amazazing.
Dana's bald ass really has the ears of the MMA community, lol. He befuddles people with his bullshit and they eat it.
Fedor discussion over on my part.
TheNatural
My Member!
Chamber said:
Your precious rankings agree with me:
http://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/Sherdogcoms-Pound-for-Pound-Top-10-35177
But hey, personally, I would like to see if you're right. Get back to me when GSP grows a pair and gets out of his welterweight comfort zone and decides to prove that he's the best by facing Anderson. Until then, or Anderson loses to someone else, Silva is the #1 fighter of all time.
We've already established that ranks don't mean shit, precious. I'm arguing with your logic now.TheNatural said:
7 years undefeated doesn't mean shit. Fedor did better than that and he sucked as we've already established.
Georges St-Pierre has not beaten anyone since BJ Penn in 2009.
Anderson Silva has not beaten anyone since Dan Henderson in 2008.
Those are the facts baby!
TheNatural
My Member!
Chamber said:
7 years undefeated matters when you're comparing someone who has not been defeated in the octagon with someone who has - twice. But like I said, when GSP grows a pair and moves up to face Anderson, I'm all for it. Then again, maybe he won't be your favorite anymore, because you only seem to like fighters who duck top competition.
TheNatural
My Member!
sien916 said:
How is Anderson ducking Jones? Jones has been champ all of a few months and has a shitload of contenders in his own division, like Rampage, Rashad, rematch with Shogun, Machida, Henderson among others to go through. He has JUST started his title reign, why would you pair Anderson with Jones? Anderson is ducking a guy who hasn't even defended his title yet? LOL.
Anderson and GSP meanwhile have been argued about who the top guy is for years and have long since cleaned out the division. It's the Pacman-Mayweather fight of MMA. It's beyond stupid if GSP won't move up to face Anderson, he's several years younger than him and has no one else in the division to fight after Diaz.
Ninja Scooter
Member
rvy said:Here's the gist of this. Fedor is considered by his peers one of the greatest, and in some cases the greatest, MMA fighter ever. Now, why would I or anyone else take the opinion of people who never stepped into a ring more seriously than people who make a living inside it?
This puzzles me to no end. It''s amazazing.
Dana's bald ass really has the ears of the MMA community, lol. He befuddles people with his bullshit and they eat it.
Fedor discussion over on my part.
I don't think Dana has ever had anything really bad to say about Fedor the Fighter, it's Fedor the Business man (and his handlers/shaman/mobsters) that Dana's called out.
TheNatural said:
Hahaha you're bobbing and weaving through these arguments like a true Anderson Silva fan.
Tell us why Silva refuses to fight 205 all of a sudden, and magically became friends with a young phenom overnight? Bones is willing to fight Anderson...not the other way around. That's ducking. GSP hasn't even been to 185.
TheNatural
My Member!
sien916 said:
Jones went from fighting Bader to being champ in a month and hasn't even defended the title. How is he ducking someone who hasn't cleared out his own division? GSP and Silva have, its the obvious fight. Where the fuck does ducking come from to someone WHO HASN'T EVEN DEFENDED THE TITLE???
I don't even know where the Bones shit comes from, there's plenty of major fights within that division to challenge him. Is Anderson ducking Cain Velaquez too? How about Overeem? Maybe he's ducking Wladamir Klitschko too, he had a boxing fight before, no excuse for him not to be facing him in a boxing fight too right? I don't know where idiots come up with this stuff.
Where do people get this shit. I want to see how Bones handles the 400 challengers in his own division, and I want see Anderson and GSP finally fight for the best in the world. If Jones takes care of Rashad, Rampage, a probable rematch with Shogun with how great he looked last fight, and maybe Machida - if Anderson isn't 50 years old by then I would like to see him fight Jones. But it's not the obvious fight, and it's not ducking a fight. The obvious fight is right there, Anderson Silva vs. Georges St Pierre.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Anderson needs to drop 70 lbs and fight Dominic Cruz, that coward.
it's telling that the only thing haters of anderson can grasp at is his unwillingness to go up to 205 to fight jon jones, who might not even be the champ in a month. it's pretty ridiculous. let jones defend the 205 strap a few times before you want him to fight anderson.
if you like fighters, you like anderson. period.
if you like fighters, you like anderson. period.
Ninja Scooter
Member
yacobod said:
This. The reason people call for the GSP/Silva fight (which GSP probably wants no part of) is because both guys cleaned out their divisions. Bones still has a bunch of good fights at LHW.
TheNatural
My Member!
yacobod said:
I officially call out Anderson Silva to face me in the parking lot of Wal-Mart next week. If he doesn't answer, he's ducking me.
yacobod said:
you keep bringing up this argument, and as mentioned before have i been watching mma since the end of '05 (i ironically remember the day) - not a insanely long amount of time, but sixish years is still something. i have never seen TUF in my life (to be honest its mainly due to being in australia and not having access to it) - but i will def watch the new series for mayhem.
i've never written off fedor per se, i have written off that he is/was the best fighter 'ever' like so many claim. of course, at his peak he was a monster - but time has progressed and with that he has declined (as most do). do 3 straight losses diminish his career? no. do 3 straight losses diminish the 'greatest fighter ever' title and his, what many thought, would be a flawless and untouchable legacy? yes. if he had retired before he tried to go over to the US, it would be a different story - he would have left on top and the claim of 'greatest' would have more weight to it.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Moving up isn't that simple. We've already been over this in the last thread.TheNatural said:
In b4 he brings up Boxing and Pac.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Why can't we like Both?yacobod said:
Jake. said:
This is completely fair and rational thinking considering what Anderson Silva has done in recent years.
Things get irrational when people like TheNatural portray him as a glorified can crusher who accomplished nothing, sighting Cain and JDS as having better career resumes. That's a complete disregard for MMA history. So I'll ask again...
If Fedor wasn't the best heavyweight, who was?
If Fedor isn't the best heavyweight of all time, who is?
Who did it better than Fedor?
With all the Fedor hating in this thread, the only answer I got was Tim Sylvia. Case fucking closed. Keep hating, haters!
TheNatural
My Member!
sien916 said:
This OT2 really has turned into Sherdog. It's really quite disgusting.
TheNatural
My Member!
sien916 said:So I take it you can't answer?
I already answered you. And yup, it's Sherdog now. How about stop trolling and back up some of your statements?
Heavyweight MMA hasn't even hit it's prime until now, Fedor isn't even an old man, yet he's 0-3 his past 3 fights against a couple of scrubs, and an old man. There's a bigger age difference between him and Henderson than him and Cain Velasquez, yet he lost to Henderson. Give the JDS vs. Cain winner 2-3 more fights to build their record, and they'll have Fedor's resume beat easily. The only knock on either you have is youth, not talent. Fedor would get his face smashed in by either.
TheKaeptain
Banned
TheNatural said:
Fedors ring age is a lot more than Cain's.
TheNatural
My Member!
sien916 said:
In the mid 90's around the first UFC, my uncle would order them, and I've watched MMA ever since. I've watched boxing even longer, as well.
My views are hardly shortsighted. Saying Fedor is the greatest heavyweight of all time is kinda like saying Vitali or Vladamir Klitschko is the greatest HW boxer of the decade. It's not really saying much. Most of the HW division was crap, and he was the best of a bad lot at the time, and the talent has improved a ton since the dark ages of the division. If he's the GOAT it's by default, and by the fact Velasquez and JDS haven't had enough time to show how good they are yet.
Not fighting any legitimate opponents from the ages 27-34 and losing your last 3, including one to a 41 year old, and 2 to fighters not considered one of the top few HW's is hell of a thing to gloat over. I've never seen so many people kiss the ass of a guy who's literally done nothing since 2005.
Give the JDS-Velasquez winner some time, another 3-4 fights and their resume is up there with Fedor's - who has a good 15 pure fluff fights padding his resume. Like I said, it's not their talent that isn't up there, its the fact they haven't had much time to build. Bottom line is, they're the 2 best in the world, and Fedor is only 34 and not even considered a top 10 heavyweight any more.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Bas Rutten is the greatest heavyweight ever. No, wait, Ken Shamrock (lol).
Fedor is one of the greats, but he isn't the clear cut greatest.
Fedor is one of the greats, but he isn't the clear cut greatest.
TheNatural said:
It appears you missed the superior product of the era, Pride FC. I challenge you to go back and watch to gain a new perspective and perhaps correct your skewed view on history.
Fedor's losses don't discredit his legacy. Just as yacobud said, the same goes for Liddell towards the end of his run. Who are you to say how long a fighter should remain in the prime of their career? You eventually decline and are surpassed. Did Iverson become the greatest of all time when he crossed up Jordan? Get outta here with that bullshit.
You're arguing JDS and Velasquez are better and you can't even choose a winner. Does that make any sense to you? One may eventually surpass him as the greatest, but as of right now Fedor is the greatest heavyweight to ever do it. You're trying to predict the future when the present here and the facts are clear. Come to terms and quit hating to the bitter end. Can you even put him in your top 5 or is the Haterade too strong?
TheNatural said:
Since 2005, Fedor has beaten around 4-5 Top 10 heavyweights.
He has around 10-13 overall Top 10 wins in his career.
How many do Cain and JDS have -combined-? 4? lol
Cain's best win is Zombie Nog (Fedor already destroyed a prime Nog twice), and JDS' best wins are Fabricio Werdum and old man Mirko (who gave JDS his toughest fight, too).
The rest of their wins are tomato cans, similar to Fedor record.
But yeah, lol
TheKaeptain
Banned
Sinatar said:
You can almost say that the thread is taking its natural course.
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