TatteredHat
Member
The strong focus on a single core philosophy.
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What is that "certain something" that makes many of us enjoy Japanese games so much?
- Thread starter Imp the Dimp
- Start date
I hate it. Give me more control please, not less.
There's luckily a lot to choose with not those designs. Games like Dark Souls/Bloodborne or Nioh
But having a great character and fanservice at the same time is not always the better output, it can be worse for some people.
rochellepaws
Member
Western games feel too market focused and dumbed down to aim at a mass audience centre point that will always be a little less invested in the hobby than I am. Japanese games still tend to be more projects of passion and with a purer view into the creator's vision. I feel like there are less suits in a boardroom altering the final output of Japanese games when compared to Western.
There are exceptions of course with attributes more suited to the other camp like CD Projekt red, Valve or Blizzard and certain recent projects with Capcom, Nintendo and Konami.
There are exceptions of course with attributes more suited to the other camp like CD Projekt red, Valve or Blizzard and certain recent projects with Capcom, Nintendo and Konami.
Both. Sometimes it's just ironic or a little bit of a ribbing of the other person meant in good fun. I find it endearing when it's used in a self aware way.
but if you are that one guy with animu pillows and decked out car with painted on chibi girls with boobs popping out then you are 100% certified weeb.
The Emperor
Member
Honestly the music and the story direction (particularly how hand crafted cut scenes feel in JP games. In western ones they are poor usually). The latter reason is also why MGSV & FFXV stories sucked for me as they tried to become 'western'
Western stuff feels too safe and the stories try to be wayyy too safe and 'technically good' to the point where I feel the lack a soul and creativity.
Western stuff feels too safe and the stories try to be wayyy too safe and 'technically good' to the point where I feel the lack a soul and creativity.
SaniOYOYOY
Member
dota itself started from icefrog, a chinese develpoer cimmw, well you can argue that he was influenced by the classic 'warcraft' games
At least as far as RPGs go, I got back into Japanese games there because I started to get tired of the open-world trend and constant endings that make it clear the game's story is made for a sequel. There are games that aren't like this in the west on PC, but I really wanted to get into games that tended to be more linear and have stories that wrapped themselves up nicely in a single entry.
keraj37
Member
This man. And for me this works in opposite direction. I don't touch Japanese games.
PaulBizkit
Member
Didn't read the OP, just the title.
Japanese games are wacky, unusual and feel waaay more creative than the serious, brooding and down-to-earth non-japanese games.
Japanese games are wacky, unusual and feel waaay more creative than the serious, brooding and down-to-earth non-japanese games.
Japanese games (used to) tend to be originated by a single artistic vision. Western games always have a committee of opinions behind it, especially investors. Democracy is great and all, but art requires a single strong hand guiding it.
That and aesthetics have never been Americas strongest suit.
That and aesthetics have never been Americas strongest suit.
Holy Order Sol
Member
I grew up playing Japanese games and want more of what I like. Games with emphasis on their mechanics in terms of gameplay, without the need to feel grounded in terms of story/presentation. Give me the constant over the top shit without restrictions due to what's supposed to make sense, while still retaining familiarity. Rule of cool and "because Japan" all day everyday.
Miss me with all the "soul" shit though.
Miss me with all the "soul" shit though.
MarkRenton
Banned
they make me ashamed of my words and deeds
CadetMahoney
Member
Gameplay that is "well thought out" and playtested is the blunt way to put it.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
I don't care where games come from. I just want good ones. The good thing about different development teams, regardless of company, country or region, is different points of view and different ideas.
texhnolyze
Banned
Certainly anime.
I don't think It's different from western and japanese games in that regard.
Same as, for example, claiming western games are too focus tested and japanese games don't. They are, just focus tested on japanese tastes.
Hippopuncher12
Member
Design is probably the main thing for me. They tend to be far more "out there" with ideas which I think is great.
sixteen-bit
Member
Anime tiddie
I'd be surprised if at least what I consider to be the classic japanese games had a lot of focus testing, or if they were, were meaningfully changed at their as a result of it.
I would also take issue with the notion that somehow design is led in any meaningful way to a positive outcome with focus testing. Perhaps in contingency with this point, I take it you interpret my use of the word committee to include focus testing. I'm more referring to top down committee management rather than bottom up.
Also there is a underlying assumption in your statement(if you agree with OP) that japanese focus testers are better than american/western ones.
Finally there is a basic supposition in the OP that this applies to all japanese games, which really it does not.
Rabid Dwarf 76
Member
I do enjoy it quite a bit but it's only one part of that "certain something" for me. Spreadsheet rpg systems, art direction, turn-based combat, crazy settings/worlds, and 60 fps are other parts of the magic sauce.
Pejo
Member
Anime tiddies, well designed boss fights, gameplay above or equal importance to story, not afraid to take chances, not as much "design by focus testing" philosophy.
I really haven't been a fan of this gen's western developed games at all, but Japan's latest stuff is fantastic. I've been playing games more in 2017 than the past few years.
I really haven't been a fan of this gen's western developed games at all, but Japan's latest stuff is fantastic. I've been playing games more in 2017 than the past few years.
IronicSonic
Member
You cant pick more wrong than that even if you tried
Try Nintendo, PG prime titles, Souls, Nioh, Yakuza series and so on
I like Japanese titles because GAME design is first. As simple as that. Awesome music too. I'm not into cinematic feel
Romars202129
Member
I got to go with the 'authored' feel. Japanese development ussually charges one man with direct authority on everything. Whereas western is committee ussually, particularly with AAAs.
The japanese way produces games with a more tailored, personal experience. Whatever budget shortcomings and regional oddities come with it, I still prefer it for the most part.
Also, japanese games ussually feel like they have way more nuance to the controls. Theres always so much to master, and it feels good to.
Also western devs need to fucking learn how to make boss fights already.
The japanese way produces games with a more tailored, personal experience. Whatever budget shortcomings and regional oddities come with it, I still prefer it for the most part.
Also, japanese games ussually feel like they have way more nuance to the controls. Theres always so much to master, and it feels good to.
Also western devs need to fucking learn how to make boss fights already.
ProgenitorCastle
Banned
LOL
I definitely share this preference, but I wonder if people agree with me in thinking that indie games seem to ignore this "rule".
I'm REALLY enjoying For Honor, to my surprise, but if I don't count indie games, I honestly have no idea of what was the last western game I liked. Maybe The Last of Us? It's been a while.
If I do count indies, though, then Hyper Light Drifter was amazing, and I blindly recommend it to people who only enjoy japanese games.
I'm REALLY enjoying For Honor, to my surprise, but if I don't count indie games, I honestly have no idea of what was the last western game I liked. Maybe The Last of Us? It's been a while.
If I do count indies, though, then Hyper Light Drifter was amazing, and I blindly recommend it to people who only enjoy japanese games.
So what do you call people who prefer western games?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Trump supporters...?
Kojima
Aye. This is a very strong point. I can't name a single game where I enjoy the OST for with a western game, honestly.
SpiceMelange
Member
Responsive controls over realistic animations. Christ GTA5.
For the Japanese games I play, it was often how they didn't (often) take themselves too seriously. There was a time during PS3 when Japanese games seemed overly serious (e.g. FFXIII), which now seems to be going away (see FFXV). It lets me parcel out the story elements at the speed I want them to be revealed.
klabautermann
Member
Not really sure, but it's just the way the feel? Never really get the same vibe from western games. Probably a weird internalized bias on my part, but something about them always just seems better to me whether it actually is or not.
There honestly isn't many worse selections of Japanese games you could have played. Try Persona, Final Fantasy, NieR: Automata, Yakuza 0, Dark Souls III/Bloodborne, or anything that's an actual good game out of Japan and not a Platinum B-Team title and low budget licensed Bamco games lol.
If we're focusing on games made by non-indies, they generally make more games that take themselves less seriously, more often have stylistic visuals/presentation and stories not so tightly tied to the real world, and have gameplay that doesn't revolver around firing a gun. That's at least what appeals to me in Japanese games.
It helps that a lot of indie developers are making either retro style games that draw inspiration from older Japanese games (Shovel Knight, HLD, etc) or games that, because of the limits on budget, decide to laser focus on one core mechanic (SuperHot, etc). A lot of Western AAA games go for the shotgun approach of trying to do everything at once in their games, and a lot of the times they get a couple mostly right, a couple kinda wrong, and the whole product feels bland as a whole.
Spaced Harrier
Member
People always say this, but Kojima is the epitome of understanding he makes videogames.
He has used the medium in ways western Devs never do.
I think Japanese developers are generally more adventurous in their designs. American games often feel focus tested to hell, beholden to many different corporate interests, and very, very afraid of offending anyone at all, so a lot of them feel overly conservative and repetitive. They are designed to be cash machines first and games second.
Good Japanese games feel like they are made with those two priorities reversed. Japanese games tend to have a clearer, more directed vision, with developers who are willing to bring that vision to life without caring too much about how well it'll appeal to the market or to their bosses. Sure, these games may not make a ton of money and it may not hit the largest audience possible, but they were created to do something and the game fucking rolls with that thing wholeheartedly, with no regrets and nothing held back. The result are games that may have no appeal at all for a lot of people, but are excellent for the people that did want that thing.
I may not like a lot of these games because they just aren't my thing, but I can respect that creative vision and the willingness to embrace it wholeheartedly rather than trying to halfass every decision because you're trying to keep 3 different executive boards happy.
And the games that do happen to do the things that I like? They're fucking amazing, and there's nothing else on the market that's quite like it.
Good Japanese games feel like they are made with those two priorities reversed. Japanese games tend to have a clearer, more directed vision, with developers who are willing to bring that vision to life without caring too much about how well it'll appeal to the market or to their bosses. Sure, these games may not make a ton of money and it may not hit the largest audience possible, but they were created to do something and the game fucking rolls with that thing wholeheartedly, with no regrets and nothing held back. The result are games that may have no appeal at all for a lot of people, but are excellent for the people that did want that thing.
I may not like a lot of these games because they just aren't my thing, but I can respect that creative vision and the willingness to embrace it wholeheartedly rather than trying to halfass every decision because you're trying to keep 3 different executive boards happy.
And the games that do happen to do the things that I like? They're fucking amazing, and there's nothing else on the market that's quite like it.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
Near the end it feels more like the RE of old to me, or Dino Crisis, I guess? And the whole thing is gamey, which is great.
It's certainly heavily western inspired though.
Maybe Im wrong but I feel like japanese games are built more with gamers/artists mindset instead of more business mindset.
That way they allow themselves to do some crazy shit that we dont see a lot in western development.
They dont mind that is cheesy af imagining Kiryu punching a tiger in the face, they dont need to explain why that happens, I feel like someone one day just tought "Hey imagine Kazuma punching a tiger in the face" and oher said "wow lets make this shit happens". If the same situation happened on West would be "Hey imagine Kazuma punching a tiger on the face!" and tye answer would be "But why? Imagine what Greenpeace is going to say ! Plus we are going to look like fools cuz this dont make any sensez forget about that and hide a feather in a chest and place a marker on the minimap".
Sorry about the trip lol
For me what makes japanese games so amazing is that I dont feel like they try to please everyone ( NIN64 trash thing says hi ) they are not making a game based on certain standards, feels like they are having fun and allowing their creativity to go nuts while developing a game.
That way they allow themselves to do some crazy shit that we dont see a lot in western development.
They dont mind that is cheesy af imagining Kiryu punching a tiger in the face, they dont need to explain why that happens, I feel like someone one day just tought "Hey imagine Kazuma punching a tiger in the face" and oher said "wow lets make this shit happens". If the same situation happened on West would be "Hey imagine Kazuma punching a tiger on the face!" and tye answer would be "But why? Imagine what Greenpeace is going to say ! Plus we are going to look like fools cuz this dont make any sensez forget about that and hide a feather in a chest and place a marker on the minimap".
Sorry about the trip lol
For me what makes japanese games so amazing is that I dont feel like they try to please everyone ( NIN64 trash thing says hi ) they are not making a game based on certain standards, feels like they are having fun and allowing their creativity to go nuts while developing a game.
Hmm. That does make a lot of sense, I think you're completely right.
I think it's artistry. Japanese games are influenced by other Japanese forms of media like manga and anime which have their own distinct flavors, tropes and style. And it's generally less grounded in reality preferring to have a bit more abstract stylization. But also I think you have more singular visions as well. The west produces something akin to Super Hero movies, big budgets, hundreds of people and lots of studio influence to sell, whereas Japanese games are often a bit smaller and a bit more focused with a particular person who has more influence heading it up. This tends to give a less "focus group" feel, they will specifically target some audiences over others and when those match up with your personal tastes it feels much more special than the everyman type of fare.