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GameXplain: Is Zelda: BotW on Switch Smoother in Handheld Mode? Direct Comparison,

T

The Futurist

Member
So much for thinking this is a home console that is also portable.

It's really a portable console with a dock that enables TV output.

It's got the power of a portable $300 handheld.

Really thought the dock would boost power enough that 900p30 wouldn't be such a struggle.

Nintendo bringing crippled hardware to the market. Surprise.
 
H

hardcastlemccormick

Banned
OrbitalBeard said:
Read other posts that responded to you. It's highly unlikely the Wii U version runs better than the Switch version, even when docked.
Click to expand...

I could see it as a possibility, if the resolution is the stress point and not some other aspect of the game that changes when the Switch goes from handheld to TV mode.

But it's way too early to be basing your buying decisions based on performance.
 
E

EmiPrime

Member
Having played it myself now, the frame rate drops in docked mode are really obvious especially when turning the camera left or right which causes the game itself to slow to a crawl if there are enemies on-screen. It's not game breaking and maybe it's just while in the open world but it is very noticeable, this isn't something only frame counting nerds on GAF are going to notice.
 
B

bomblord1

Banned
The Futurist said:
So much for thinking this is a home console that is also portable.

It's really a portable console with a dock that enables TV output.

It's got the power of a portable $300 handheld.

Really thought the dock would boost power enough that 900p30 wouldn't be such a struggle.

Nintendo bringing crippled hardware to the market. Surprise.
Click to expand...

I think that's a bit extreme. There seems to be more going on then just a resolution difference and according to at least one journalist the issue is limited to only certain areas of the Great Plateau. All the impressions that have mentioned it have also said it is infrequent.
 
B

bachikarn

Member
I can't watch the video but are they both in the exact same scenario?

DF did their analysis before and said there wasn't a difference. Ie, any perceived difference was just due to variance of the situation.
 
N

Nictel

Member
broncobuster said:
A 720p option for TV mode should happen. Definitely prefer smoother than the slight resolution bump.
Click to expand...

Wonder if you can achieve this by only connecting the HDMI out but not the power supply? As it would keep the unit in low power mode. The HDMI out may be disabled in portable mode though
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Popsickles said:
Doesn't handheld mode run at lower resolution ?
Click to expand...

zuf said:
720p handheld v 900p docked? Would appear to be the reason. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

The Switch clocks higher when docked, since it does not have to conserve battery life. The GPU clock is more than doubled. Memory bandwidth (by default) is increased by ~25%. In theory, that should be more than enough to compensate for the higher resolution.

See here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nintendo-switch-spec-analysis

A7Npr20.jpg
 
tkscz

tkscz

Member
OricWindstar said:
That is so bizarre.

EDIT: Slightly less bizarre after further discussion.
Click to expand...

How? It drops from 900p to 720p. Makes sense that there are fewer drops.

ElTorro said:
The Switch clocks higher when docked, since it does not have to conserve battery life. The GPU clock is more than doubled. Memory bandwidth is increased by ~25%. In theory, that should be more than enough to compensate for the higher resolution.

See here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nintendo-switch-spec-analysis

A7Npr20.jpg
Click to expand...

True, but might not be as exact with a game that was originally made in 720p and ported up to 900p.
 
T

The Futurist

Member
bomblord1 said:
I think that's a bit extreme. There seems to be more going on then just a resolution difference and according to at least one journalist the issue is limited to only certain areas of the Great Plateau. All the impressions that have mentioned it have also said it is infrequent.
Click to expand...

I would have happily paid significantly more for a more capable device.
 
SinCityAssassin

SinCityAssassin

Member
The Futurist said:
So much for thinking this is a home console that is also portable.

It's really a portable console with a dock that enables TV output.

It's got the power of a portable $300 handheld.

Really thought the dock would boost power enough that 900p30 wouldn't be such a struggle.

Nintendo bringing crippled hardware to the market. Surprise.
Click to expand...
For a guy who says he's new here, you seemed to have adjusted quite well.
 
jediyoshi

jediyoshi

Member
jett said:
That has to be a bug. Makes no sense.
Click to expand...

Unless you mean QA oversight, it's clear as to why 900p would run worse than 720p.

bachikarn said:
I can't watch the video but are they both in the exact same scenario?

DF did their analysis before and said there wasn't a difference. Ie, any perceived difference was just due to variance of the situation.
Click to expand...

Yes. Where is their analysis?
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Does the handheld mode just change the resolution or is there a hit to textures and such too?

I'm still not entirely sure to what extent docking changes things.
 
O

OrbitalBeard

Member
hardcastlemccormick said:
I could see it as a possibility, if the resolution is the stress point and not some other aspect of the game that changes when the Switch goes from handheld to TV mode.

But it's way too early to be basing your buying decisions based on performance.
Click to expand...

According to Digital Foundry, the Switch version sees a significant increase over the Wii U demo from E3. Now, there's probably been some optimization, but Nintendo tends to do this much earlier on than other developers, so I doubt the Wii U game is performing all that differently now than it was six months ago. Plus, there is Game Awards footage from December and it was looking pretty rough there.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
Can we choose to play "handheld mode" on tv? I'll take the better frame rate.

720p vs 900p doesn't matter to me in this situation.
 
Schnozberry

Schnozberry

Member
bachikarn said:
I can't watch the video but are they both in the exact same scenario?

DF did their analysis before and said there wasn't a difference. Ie, any perceived difference was just due to variance of the situation.
Click to expand...

Data Foundry noticed the same thing everyone else has. There are slight frame drops in busier areas lots of grass, but it's mostly a smooth 30fps in docked mode. The portable mode has lower draw distance and 50% less resolution, so it's not surprising that it doesn't struggle as much.
 
-shadow-

-shadow-

Member
I wonder how DF will make the comparison. Also unfortunate that it's just a port, this would've been wonderful if build from the ground up.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Everyone needs to view Switch as a premium handheld - especially devs.

Handheld mode needs to be the primary target for fps and graphics, just like this.
 
SinCityAssassin

SinCityAssassin

Member
The Lamp said:
I wonder why the plateau seemed to run fine at E3p
Click to expand...
The plateau had the same kind of drops all around, with slightly worse drops outside the area in different parts of the world. And those drops are lower than the Switch's and happened more frequently. For example when bill got caught in that explosion, frames dropped below 20.
 
O

OrbitalBeard

Member
The Lamp said:
I wonder why the plateau seemed to run fine at E3p
Click to expand...

It's really annoying that you are completely ignoring people who have responded to you.

It's not running worse than it did at E3. It's running better. There are Digital Foundry videos of both versions, with frame counters, that prove this. The Wii U version has TONS of framerate issues.
 
K

King_Moc

Banned
So, it's got to be running some sort of extra effects on the grass in docked mode? The extra gpu grunt in docked mode should easily handle the resolution bump otherwise.
 
F

FallingSputnik

Member
An option for 720p docked isn't a bad idea. Like, why are some suddenly forgetting that last gen didn't happen? People were totally fine when the 360 and PS3 did 720p, and even less in some cases. We thought that generation was the best ever until the next generation came out.
 
B

broncobuster

Banned
bomblord1 said:
I wonder if it would be possible to get a performance boost by changing the systems output resolution to 720p docked.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see it tested. Way back when I played Tomb Raider Legend with my Xbox 360 set to 480p for better performance. But few console games render at lower resolutions by dropping the video output.

Schnozberry said:
It's not slight. It's 150% of the Wii U resolution.
Click to expand...

Speaking for myself, 900p is going to be a little blurry on my TV, it usually is, so I feel the drop to 720p for smoother performance isn't much of a sacrifice.
 
A

Alienous

Member
I think the more concerning issue is how these TV mode performance dips will manifest in more demanding areas of the game.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
OrbitalBeard said:
Read other posts that responded to you. It's highly unlikely the Wii U version runs better than the Switch version, even when docked.
Click to expand...

That's hard to say definitively though. It was built for Wii U and ported, runs in 720p instead of 900p and has lesser detail in things like grass and what not. So it could be lower graphically but run at a more stable frame rate.

Only time will tell, but one would think they would have sent preview/review copies of the Wii U version out if it was notably worse than the Switch version. So it probably runs at least as well (or damn close) to the docked Switch version is my guess. If the Switch version was clearly superior I'd think they'd want to make that clear by showing the Wii U version to entice more people to upgrade. We'll see in a week I guess.

I'll get the Wii U version either way since I don't want a Switch in the near future.. I don't like the art style in general so I'm not going to be fussed about the lower resolution and details as long as the frame rate is at least on part with the Switch version.
 
G

glaringradio

Member
KojiKnight said:
Shouldn't worry to much till we see what the day 1 patch brings... Welcome to the present, Nintendo!
Click to expand...
I mean I highly doubt the day 1 patch is going to magically increase the 900p framerate to 30...

If they've given the consoles to various outlets for preview and they're seeing 30FPS @ 720P on the handheld unit, it would be an absolute miracle to release a day 1 patch that pushes BOTW to run a solid 30FPS at 900P.

The more hilarious thing is that the Switch supports 1080P, yet Nintendo's flagship title doesn't even run at the highest resolution.
 
SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I don't get it. I thought the base provided some extra ooomph? Is performance better because of the lower resolution?
 
H

hardcastlemccormick

Banned
OrbitalBeard said:
According to Digital Foundry, the Switch version sees a significant increase over the Wii U demo from E3. Now, there's probably been some optimization, but Nintendo tends to do this much earlier on than other developers, so I doubt the Wii U game is performing all that differently now than it was six months ago. Plus, there is Game Awards footage from December and it was looking pretty rough there.
Click to expand...

Is this the same E3 demo which people were comparing visual differences and showing how the game had changed in a few ways? Folks were claiming the WiiU version would look better? (lol)

I'm just not sold on the idea that a preview is ever indicative of how a game actually runs. Doesn't matter what Nintendo "usually" does, that's just how programming is. You optimize after everything's done and the scope is locked in.

We'll see. I'll start my hand wringing when I see the final WiiU build.
 
R

Rootbeer

Banned
Well, here's hoping for a patch that can help smooth it out. Definitely not holding my breath though. Nintendo doesn't seem big on patches except for adding new content, I don't recall seeing a lot of performance-related patches on Wii U or 3DS. There was a 3DS firmware update that had a small boost in some content though. Can we expect something similar?

I still plan on playing mostly in Handheld mode though, so its impact on me will be less than most.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
900p vs 720p. If the GPU is clocked at < 50% of the docked speed when in handheld mode then something is up. That difference should handle 720p handheld and 1080p docked, so 900p should be comfortable enough to not have big differences


SinCityAssassin said:
Extra effects, more draw distance, etc.
Click to expand...

If so, then you'd think they should have tuned the extra details to balance performance when docked, and maybe they can address with a patch?
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
FallingSputnik said:
An option for 720p docked isn't a bad idea. Like, why are some suddenly forgetting that last gen didn't happen? People were totally fine when the 360 and PS3 did 720p, and even less in some cases. We thought that generation was the best ever until the next generation came out.
Click to expand...

Well, you kind of answered your own question there. The next gen happened and people's standards raised. People who care about resolution and frame rate aren't going to be as forgiving, especially with new hardware at $300 that seems lacking in those areas to the competition that has $250 bundles often.

The people who aren't graphics enthusiasts, like portable gaming etc. won't care at all and not be bothered by it of course.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
ElTorro said:
The Switch clocks higher when docked, since it does not have to conserve battery life. The GPU clock is more than doubled. Memory bandwidth (by default) is increased by ~25%. In theory, that should be more than enough to compensate for the higher resolution.

See here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nintendo-switch-spec-analysis

A7Npr20.jpg
Click to expand...

I think that in handheld mode it might have also other things reduced, like drawing distance as it doesn't make sense to keep bells and whistles that are not really too visible on a small screen.
 
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