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gafneo
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by RumbleHumble

You kinda opened up the door already dude. Dropping a disparaging post without explaining and then complaining about how it'd take forever for to explain when pressed for an explanation doesn't elevate your credibility.

Honestly I've explained my reasons to death before. You guys love this game and can't see flaws even if it hits you in the face. I could go on and on and you will say the worst part of the game is an achievement to human life.

I'm glad at least the people in the comments section of this video feel my pain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A1ilPcdgU4
Last edited by gafneo; 06-19-2017 at 05:21 PM.
Chill Penguin
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:07 PM)
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Metroid Prime is basically one large Zelda dungeon, absolutely brilliant game design. Couple that with an immersive environment and it becomes a legendary game.
Flachmatuch
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:28 PM)

Originally Posted by gafneo

Honestly I've explained my reasons to death before. You guys love this game and can't see flaws even if it hits you in the face. I could go on and on and you will say the worst part of the game is an achievement to human life.

I'm glad at least the people in the comments section of this video feel my pain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A1ilPcdgU4

Gotta love this changing the goalposts bullshit. You shat on all three games, not one single boss (which is afaik considered to be the worst in all three games). You claimed they were all frustrating, outdated and cheap. You did not say you didn't like one boss. You explicitly talked about "the design" of "those games". Not only 2 and certainly not a single boss.
TheMoon
Quest Reward:
Eye of Webster
(06-19-2017, 05:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by SG-17

I just hope that Prime 4 has modern FPS controls. It's very difficult to go back and play Prime 1 and 2.

They're not FPS games. They're made for and designed around lock-on, which makes perfect sense for that type of weapon Samus uses and how the accuracy part of gunplay is de-emphasized which makes dual-stick controls completely unnecessary.
Opa-Pa
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:30 PM)
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While I enjoy all three of them greatly (four counting Hunters!), I only really hold the first one on a pedestal. The game not only was a surprise hit to everyone back in the day, but it managed to translate the appeal of what was considered by many the best game of all time to not only 3D, but a genre as radically different to 2D sidescroller as FPS. That alone is mind blowing and the game is goddamn fantastic to boot.

Wonderful level design, great art direction, early use of environmental storytelling, great visuals paired with excellent performance, soundtrack comparable to SM's and snappy, well thought controls for Samus both in the context of the genre and it being a Metroid game.

Certified masterpiece right there!
Flachmatuch
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:32 PM)

Originally Posted by TheMoon

They're not FPS games. They're made for and designed around lock-on, which makes perfect sense for that type of weapon Samus uses and how the accuracy part of gunplay is de-emphasized which makes dual-stick controls completely unnecessary.

Well, if I can be completely honest, I think they may have been designed more around the c-stick being a bit crap :-D I think I only played Geist with normal FPS controls and the c-stick was...not very good. Whatever the reason was, it was really well done though. On the other hand, the Wiimote controls, which are standard wiimote fps controls, are awesome.
Gusy
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(06-19-2017, 05:35 PM)
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Metroid Prime was and still is one of the few 3d games that perfectly nails the exploration / power trip design philosophy. Its one of the few games that nails movement in 1st and 3rd person perspective. The way the morph ball feels in 3d still holds up beautifully. Metroid Prime was full of lore and backstory but it didn't shoved it down your throat, It let you decide how much of it you want to experience. It made you feel like a badass bounty hunter but at the same time it made you feel like an explorer-discoverer of new life forms and planets. It was a 1st person game that allowed you to shoot things.... but for the 1st time it didn't feel like the shooting part was the core mechanic. The game, by design, invited you to explore first and shoot second.

It was sci-fi 1st person Zelda. That was unheard of in a 1st person console game. It did all of this within an audio-visual package that still holds up 15 years later. It had beautiful art design, complex geometry, varied enviroments and was locked @60fps. It even had rag doll physics before max payne 2 released.

It also played beautifully. It was one of the few games that really made 1st person jumping work. The bosses were huge and varied and also a blast to defeat. The way the different environments interconnected with each other made the traversal interesting and also made the place feel real. And it was a game were the power ups not only changed how you shoot things but how you move and interact in 3d space. That made the game power trip design borderline addictive.

Prime was not the first in many of the things that it did right.. but it was one of the first that got them all at the same time.
AndrewDean84xX
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(06-19-2017, 05:36 PM)
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Because they're the best first person adventure games, even to this day.
Pancakes R Us
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(06-19-2017, 05:42 PM)
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The OG Metroid Prime is a masterpiece, still holds up today. It's just that good.

I love Metroid always and forever.
Mael
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(06-19-2017, 05:50 PM)
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Aside from a clearly insane poster I see plenty of things mentioned but there 1 thing that is clearly ignored.
The game is in 1st person view and you battle by shooting BUT the focus is NEVER on how how good a sharpshooter you are but more on how good you are at avoiding damage.
Since you have unlimited ammo, it's always a foregone conclusion that you will kill your enemies BUT your evasive maneuvers are sharp enough that you can avoid any and all damage.
The core concept of enemy encounters in Metroid is still there (basically you kill foes to replenish your supplies).
The encounters are properly thought out so that you can be clever in either fighting or avoiding combat.
Of course this shine in the Prime games because the level designs are perfect, the music is fantastic and the controls are top notch (although I'd say Prime 1&2 are clearly made for GC controller and it shows in the Trilogy version.
The bosses are genius and well crafted.
There's 1 thing they need to do for Prime 4 that goes against the Prime Trilogy : make the game exponentially harder, Zelda was able to get away with, Metroid should too.
VDenter
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:51 PM)
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I have to give Prime 2 credit for having the greatest boss fights. Perhaps better than any other Nintendo game. I know people might complain how difficult some of them are but i loved fighting them and it felt so satisfying taking them down especially on Hard or on a low % run.
Spyder_Monkey
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:52 PM)
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Because Prime 1 is perfection, Prime 3 is cool and Prime 2 sucks but that's ok because 1 and 3 still exist.
pswii60
(06-19-2017, 05:56 PM)
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MP is one of those game series that is much more than a sum of its parts.

I think it's the feeling of isolation, exploration and the puzzle elements combined with a super polished 60fps gameplay experience. Sure it's first person, but there's underlying old-school gaming principles shining through at every corner. And you're never bombarded with overly long cut scenes, scripted narrative interruptions, or slow walk and talk moments. There's also tons of environmental variety and you don't get a constant sense of déjà vu as you do in so many first person games.

But in reality, I think it was clearly just a perfect team making a perfect game.

I'm excited about MP4 but I'm also very weary that the original team isn't behind it. It'll be a miracle if Nintendo can capture that true MP spirit again with a new team. But it's Nintendo, so it's certainly possible.
gafneo
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(06-19-2017, 05:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Flachmatuch

Gotta love this changing the goalposts bullshit. You shat on all three games, not one single boss (which is afaik considered to be the worst in all three games). You claimed they were all frustrating, outdated and cheap. You did not say you didn't like one boss. You explicitly talked about "the design" of "those games". Not only 2 and certainly not a single boss.

Where did I say all? Because I like part 1. I did mention that boss several times. If you must know, most of the bosses in Prime 2 suck. Prime 3 has its own kind of frustration. Often misleads and is more confusing than fun. It's not really even epic like the 2D games. I know you will say none of these statements are true. That's fine because we all have opinions and I respect people that say they this stuff. I know from my experience that this series is more of a chore and feels like laber than enjoyment.
Vital Tundra
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(06-19-2017, 06:01 PM)
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The immersion, the isolation, the upgrades, the map design, the world building through imagery and optional data logs of almost everything, the level design and beautifully realized 3D map. Bosses and enemies are so memorable just as much as Samus' weapon and armor upgrades. And none of these great things require knowledge of the Metroid universe as a whole. The story is honestly optional in a way.

Each Prime game follows the same formula but all feel so unique and different. There are no other games like it.
jmizzal
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(06-19-2017, 06:05 PM)
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I liked Prime 1 and 3 the most both great games
Kamina
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(06-19-2017, 06:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Monkeyball

Nintendo should hurry the fuckkkk up with releasing their classics on Switch. I want to play Super Metroid and the Metroid Primes on my Switch.

The thought of playing MP Trilogy on Switch is very arousing.
Servbot24
[CIA SLOWLY TAKES OFF HOOD]
(06-19-2017, 06:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by gafneo

Its true. I don't talk about frustration often, but those games are cheap in their outdated game designs. MP 2 is even more frustrating than the original Nes Metroid. People talk trash about Zelda2 being unfair. Well, they have not faced the wrath of Prime 2.

What? There are a couple bosses that might take more than one try in Prime 2. Metroid NES is a pure exercise in frustration.
Soph
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(06-19-2017, 06:10 PM)
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It's the Citizen Kane of video games
Wamb0wneD
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(06-19-2017, 06:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by gafneo

Its true. I don't talk about frustration often, but those games are cheap in their outdated game designs. MP 2 is even more frustrating than the original Nes Metroid. People talk trash about Zelda2 being unfair. Well, they have not faced the wrath of Prime 2.

What is this? I had no problems playing trhough Prime 2. What are you even talking about? Unfair? What?
Vampirolol
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(06-19-2017, 06:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by gafneo

Where did I say all? Because I like part 1. I did mention that boss several times. If you must know, most of the bosses in Prime 2 suck. Prime 3 has its own kind of frustration. Often misleads and is more confusing than fun. It's not really even epic like the 2D games. I know you will say none of these statements are true. That's fine because we all have opinions and I respect people that say they this stuff. I know from my experience that this series is more of a chore and feels like laber than enjoyment.

I think that your points are all valid but to a lesser extent than what it seems from your posts. The design in MP3 wasn't as organic as in the first Prime but not more confusing than fun.
Kiddy Dong
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(06-19-2017, 06:13 PM)
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My thoughts on the Prime games:

Prime 1: The most well rounded of the trilogy, it makes sense that it is the most well regarded amongst the general gaming audience. An all time classic.

Prime 2: My personal favorite of the three. The difficulty, hostile and oppressing environments, and the sense of isolation were all done best in 2 imo. The ammo system is not anywhere close to as bad as people make it out to be.

Prime 3: Good but not great. The motion controls worked well but were not as comfortable as the Gamecube controls, and the game seemed like it was trying too hard to shoehorn in tropes from contemporary AAA FPSes like Halo. Easily the weakest game in the trilogy.
Sadist
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(06-19-2017, 06:20 PM)
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The original was an amazing moment for me.

I remember my cousin getting his Gamecube and I started playing where he left of, just after he landed on Tallon IV. That very first moment, when you see raindrops falling on your visor was amazing. Then you take your first steps, use the morphball for the first time, exploring the caverns... so good.

There are too many awesome moments in this franchise.

Sanctuary Fortress man.
Z3M0G
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 06:25 PM)
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The first one released when FPS controls on console were still not standardized, and "tank" style controls were still very much the norm. It allowed side-scroller games (Metroid) and top-down tank control games (RE series) to naturally evolve into new perspectives of play (FPS/3PS respectively) with minimal to no impact impact to how they actually controlled and played. (Metroid Prime played very much the same as Metroid 3, with the addition of turning side to side and lock-on. RE4 played very much the same as RE1-3, with addition of finer aiming up/down.)

Japan played a HUGE role in that as well, by being extremely resistant to Dual-Stick shooter controls that are standard in FPS/3PS games today.

Those were good days too... and these control schemes, IMO, are still very much valid and should still be celebrated and used time to time...

Edit: Both of the mentioned above games are pivotal at this period in the evolution of console gaming... both two of the greatest games ever made, hands down. And both Gamecube games.
chadtwo
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(06-19-2017, 06:31 PM)
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The sense of starting from nothing and having little/no sense of direction with 90% of the world closed off from you and building up to be able to explore every nook and cranny
AmayaPapaya
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(06-19-2017, 06:41 PM)
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Design of the games is unmatched by any other series IMO. Echoes is the secret GOAT. I think in a post Indy Metroidvania and Dark Souls world, it would be more accepted and people should replay it. Prime 2 is just Prime 1 but better in almost every way. I like what a previous poster said, it the git gud of the franchise, so many people couldn't appreciate it for what it was. Especially in 2004 when games like Halo and Half Life were at their peak. Prime 2 is, in many ways, at odds with the design of both those games.
Kraq
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 06:51 PM)
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I couldn't really put a finger on why I love the Prime trilogy, but it's a combination of the atmosphere, the exploration while you discover new weapons and power-ups and solid feel good gameplay of shooting stuff with Samus' blaster.

That said, whenever I try to replay Prime 1 or 2, I'm instantly reminded of the controls. They come from an era before CoD4 existed and they have not aged well. Also, whilst it's not the game's fault, playing this in SD resolution is horrific.

The trilogy is desperate for a HD remaster with good controls. I'd snap that up if it came on the eShop for cheap.
Garlador
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(06-19-2017, 06:52 PM)
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The Light Suit in Prime 2 is still the sexiest thing I've ever seen in a game...

The whole trilogy is phenomenal.
Neat Machine
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(06-19-2017, 07:03 PM)
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I've tried to get into the MP Trilogy but I don't seem to "get it." I wonder if you had to have experienced the 2D -> 3D transition to fully appreciate the games.

I really wish the games would click with me. That may sound like a silly thing to hope for, but I've had it happen before where a game that I felt like I should enjoy just didn't do it for me until I had some revelation about its design and then I couldn't put it down.

Anyway, for me the controls feel clunky and the art style really highlights the low resolution to a point that it's hard to look at and distinguish objects.
Last edited by Neat Machine; 06-19-2017 at 07:08 PM.
Crayolan
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(06-19-2017, 07:10 PM)
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You're dropped in an alien world with no clear direction or objective and just set free to explore. It's an awesome concept that's executed masterfully with an amazing atmosphere and sense of isolation, lots of secrets to find, awesome and intimidating bosses, a story which you have to discover for yourself, etc etc.

Originally Posted by Neat Machine

I've tried to get into the MP Trilogy but I don't seem to "get it." I wonder if you had to have experienced the 2D -> 3D transition to fully appreciate the games.

I really wish the games would click with me. That may sound like a silly thing to hope for, but I've had it happen before where a game that I felt like I should enjoy just didn't do it for me until I had some revelation about its design and then I couldn't put it down.

Anyway, for me the controls feel clunky and the art style really highlights the low resolution to a point that it's hard to look at and distinguish objects.

I played Metroid Prime first. You definitely do not need to experience to the 2D>3D transition to appreciate it.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
(06-19-2017, 07:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neat Machine

I've tried to get into the MP Trilogy but I don't seem to "get it." I wonder if you had to have experienced the 2D -> 3D transition to fully appreciate the games.

I have never played any of the 2D games and consider Metroid Prime a masterpiece, so I don't think this is the case.
Opa-Pa
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(06-19-2017, 07:42 PM)
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I think I'll have to revisit MP2 sometime soon because while I enjoyed it at the time, it still felt like a huge step down compared to the first game in pretty much every single way. I found particularly annoying that the game was so oppressive, like I enjoy feeling threatened in these games, but losing HP constantly over just staying still wasn't fun or hard, just annoying, and the samey environments made the game's world feel dull.

And yet I've seen lots of users call it their favorite, so I feel like I didn't appreciate it properly back then and I'm missing out.
Jangowuzhere
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(06-19-2017, 07:53 PM)
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I actually do not understand why the Prime games are so highly acclaimed. The action is not all that exciting, and navigating the maps is more tedious and confusing instead of fun.

I played the 2D Metroid games AM2R and Super Metroid for the first time and thought they were way more engaging than any of the Prime games. I wish we were getting an AAA Super Metroid sequel instead of another Prime game honestly.
Kiddy Dong
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(06-19-2017, 09:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kraq

I couldn't really put a finger on why I love the Prime trilogy, but it's a combination of the atmosphere, the exploration while you discover new weapons and power-ups and solid feel good gameplay of shooting stuff with Samus' blaster.

That said, whenever I try to replay Prime 1 or 2, I'm instantly reminded of the controls. They come from an era before CoD4 existed and they have not aged well. Also, whilst it's not the game's fault, playing this in SD resolution is horrific.

The trilogy is desperate for a HD remaster with good controls. I'd snap that up if it came on the eShop for cheap.

Maybe it is if it's upscaled on a modern TV. Words cannot describe the glory of playing them in native 480p progressive scan on a VGA CRT computer monitor. These are contenders for the best looking (3D) standard definition games ever.
Opa-Pa
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(06-19-2017, 09:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jangowuzhere

I actually do not understand why the Prime games are so highly acclaimed. The action is not all that exciting, and navigating the maps is more tedious and confusing instead of fun.

I played the 2D Metroid games AM2R and Super Metroid for the first time and thought they were way more engaging than any of the Prime games. I wish we were getting an AAA Super Metroid sequel instead of another Prime game honestly.

I have good and bad news

Inferno313
Tell me about Bane!
(06-19-2017, 09:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheMoon

They're not FPS games. They're made for and designed around lock-on, which makes perfect sense for that type of weapon Samus uses and how the accuracy part of gunplay is de-emphasized which makes dual-stick controls completely unnecessary.

Yeah, I don't know... The controls made sense at the time, but dual-analog is so ubiquotus now that I feel like sticking to single-stick controls would get them dragged through the mud. I'm expecting, and hoping, for dual-analog this time. I mean, Metroid Prime 3 is essentially dual-analog, just using a Wiimote.
To Far Away Times
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(06-19-2017, 09:11 PM)
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The only single player shooters that I would say are in the same league are RE4, Bioshock 1 and Doom 2016.

Metroid Prime is a great game. One the best ever, really. I never cared for the second one all that much though. Too much stopping and waiting with the dark world.
Neff
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(06-19-2017, 09:12 PM)
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Superb level design.
Frodo
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(06-19-2017, 09:13 PM)
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That first time:

Skittzo0413
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(06-19-2017, 09:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neat Machine

I've tried to get into the MP Trilogy but I don't seem to "get it." I wonder if you had to have experienced the 2D -> 3D transition to fully appreciate the games.

I really wish the games would click with me. That may sound like a silly thing to hope for, but I've had it happen before where a game that I felt like I should enjoy just didn't do it for me until I had some revelation about its design and then I couldn't put it down.

Anyway, for me the controls feel clunky and the art style really highlights the low resolution to a point that it's hard to look at and distinguish objects.

Metroid Prime was my first Metroid game ever and I loved it. So it didn't have to do with the 2D>3D transition.

It might be when you tried to play it though. In 2002 the resolution, graphics, and even controls were bleeding edge for the industry. Today though the visuals and especially controls don't hold up all that well to modern first person games, probably because you're used to dual analog controls for every first person game. Playing it in 2002 was a mind-blowing experience though.

That said, I don't think updating the games to have dual analog controls would really even work all that well. They were kinda designed with the lock-on mechanic in mind.
Firemind
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(06-19-2017, 09:18 PM)
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The first one is a masterpiece.

Shame Retro couldn't follow it up.

Makes me glad they're not helming 4.
Nostremitus
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(06-19-2017, 09:19 PM)
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For me, it was discovery.

Investigating the ruins of an ancient people and slowly piecing together what happened over the course of the game.
Soulblighter31
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(06-19-2017, 09:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

It really was a pioneer in environmental story-telling. The vast majority of the narrative in these games is pieced together using little details uncovered by your scan visor. In many ways the modern trend of environmental story-telling in things like "walking simulators" and even the way that games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne tell their stories is something that Metroid Prime pioneered.

That's also not to mention the amazing level design, atmosphere, sense of isolation, fantastic boss battles. They're just incredible games all-around.

Half Life

Originally Posted by Mister Wolf

Because there are no other first person shooter adventure exploration games out there. Its one of a kind.

Unreal
The Xtortionist
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(06-19-2017, 09:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Firemind

The first one is a masterpiece.

Shame Retro couldn't follow it up.

Echoes was exactly the game I wanted after Prime 1. It was significantly deeper and more challenging. A lot of game sequels try to be inclusive of new players, but Echoes is like "naw fuck that", and gives hardcore Prime fans a more demanding experience built on the foundation of the first game. Does it overreach in spots? Yeah, maybe. Portal hopping can become a bit mindbending starting around the midpoint of Torvus Bog, and the Sky Temple keys can be hell to find if you miss the Luminoth scan that reveals their locations. But overall Echoes is a bold as hell sequel that gives no fucks and demands the player's full and thoughtful attention. And that's pretty cool.

Also Sanctuary Fortress may be the pinnacle of 3D level design.
Appleman
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(06-19-2017, 09:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Skittzo0413

Metroid Prime was my first Metroid game ever and I loved it. So it didn't have to do with the 2D>3D transition.

It might be when you tried to play it though. In 2002 the resolution, graphics, and even controls were bleeding edge for the industry. Today though the visuals and especially controls don't hold up all that well to modern first person games, probably because you're used to dual analog controls for every first person game. Playing it in 2002 was a mind-blowing experience though.

That said, I don't think updating the games to have dual analog controls would really even work all that well. They were kinda designed with the lock-on mechanic in mind.

I think any Switch version should be dual analog + lock on. Like playing the Wii versions with the most aggressive lock on setting. That way you don't need to worry about precise aiming but can still move and look using that familiar dual stick controls
ahoyhoy
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(06-19-2017, 09:32 PM)
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The first one is a masterpiece.

The second one is a bit of a slog, story wise and world exploration wise.

I never got more than an hour into three. Who are all these people talking to me and why.
Meffer
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(06-19-2017, 09:33 PM)
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Prime 1 is one of the best games I've ever played.
Inuhanyou
Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
(06-19-2017, 09:35 PM)
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I didn't really like Prime 2(because of the lack of atmosphere) or Prime 3(because of the lack of atmosphere and motion control), but Prime 1 was one of the best games i've played.

Everything came together in a perfect storm
rulerk1
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(06-19-2017, 09:37 PM)
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it wasnt until two years ago did i sit down to play through the trilogy after buying them all at launch. My favorite is Echoes tho it was the most frustrating for me. If I didn't have a guide to explain that little hunt i would be lost. I was so close to 100% too :( Also dat soundtrack
Nostremitus
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(06-19-2017, 09:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Soulblighter31

Half Life



Unreal

Have you played the Metroid Prime Trilogy?

It looks like you're just randomly stating games with no context. Half-life is a great game, but its storytelling is completely different than Metroid.

The stories in Metroid Prime are about the ancient civilizations inhabiting the world's she's on and what led to their downfall. Samus' story is a subplot of the overarching narrative that acts as a vehicle for exploration and discovery of the full story.

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