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Kssio_Aug
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:03 PM)
Kssio_Aug's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kolibri

Aaaaand there goes any chance of ever seeing RDR2 on PC.

If that's what it takes. Whatever!!!
Really... come one! We now have to remain silent for bad company decisions because we fear they won't let us buy their "awesome product"? I think things are inverted in this whole consumer x company relationship. I don't give a fuck for RDR2 if that's their line of thinking. There are way too many good (and better) games on PC. They're the ones losing money, not me.
LelouchZero
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by darkinstinct

It's a stupid way. This childish behaviour will just make Valve kill reviews for good, the only working curation of content there is. All Rockstar will think is PC gaming was a mistake. It's not like they need those 8 out of 80 million sales. And I guess the majority of users are pretty damn thankful in the first place for stopping mods, because only a minority uses them and they don't like being griefed upon, which is why Rockstar shut down Open IV in the first place. This is just a vocal stupid minority abusing the review system. Go to Twitter, send nuts to their office, do what normal people do.

Wow, at-least do some research before you talk about something.

OpenIV is completely unrelated, people use it to mod the singleplayer portion of the game. The griefers, cheaters and money droppers are using script hooks, mod menus and memory editors.

Originally Posted by Fata1moose

What was the mod? I've seen Skyrim mods that shouldn't be allowed to exist, some enforcement from developers isn't a bad thing.

Take Two sent the OpenIV developers a C&D, it is used to modify the game, with it people create mods for the game, such as vehicle and texture mods etc.
It is used for the single player portion of the game and you can't access online with it installed.

This is a post from one of the developers on the "gtaforums"

Here is my comment on this Rockstar's statement:
OpenIV, “Liberty City in GTA V” and all other mods/projects from my team and me are only specific for Single player. Rockstar must be well aware about the fact that you cannot access GTA Online while you have installed any OpenIV mod:

The statement "Unfortunately OpenIV enables recent malicious mods that allow harassment of players and interfere with the GTA Online experience for everybody", is just wrong and they know it. OpenIV does not allows or supports any kind of GTA Online mods. We always supported Rockstar in their right to protect GTA Online from hacks and cheats. But, Take-Two's C&D was specific for out Singleplayer mods and have no mentions about GTA Online.

To those claiming that Rockstar or Take-Two don't care, if they really didn't care why would they respond to the situation?

PC Gamer - Here's Rockstar's statement about Take-Two shutting down GTA's OpenIV modding tool (Updated)

While we have not received a comment from Take-Two, Rockstar just sent PC Gamer its statement on the matter. Here it is in full:

"Take-Two's actions were not specifically targeting single player mods. Unfortunately OpenIV enables recent malicious mods that allow harassment of players and interfere with the GTA Online experience for everybody. We are working to figure out how we can continue to support the creative community without negatively impacting our players."

PhantomThief
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:06 PM)
Corporate defenders are the worst posters. Dp they get paid for their blatant anti-consumer stances they post on and on about?

A horrible action taken against fans of GTAV and its modding community, and some of your guys advice is to just stay quiet and do nothing?

Like how do you come up with this stuff. Them sarcastic remarks aren't funny either.
Azure Phoenix
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kssio_Aug

Vastly negative reviews may impact their sales from now on. And it's a good way to send the message. I think that's a good form of protest in this situation.

At this point in GTA V's life, do you think a significant amount of customers are uninformed enough about the product to consider the Steam review score (but not check the actual reviews) before making their purchase?

Will those reviews dissuade people that were interested in buying it due to modding, particularly due to Youtube videos by personalities? Yes, and YT is one avenue where a lot of noise needs to be made. Will it dissuade people that are buying it for GTA Online? No, and those potential whales are what the publisher and developer care about right now, enough to kick the mod hornets nest.

Originally Posted by PhantomThief

Right. And how exactly would one consumer go about this? To tell the sharks to stop dropping money?

I'd be happy to wait while you come up with a way.

Yes? Rather than just spraying shit all up the walls actually have an angle of attack, if you want to organise a protest then make the action about not playing GTA Online and not buying any Shark Cards until they reverse this decision. If their userbase or revenue drops by any noticeable amount, then you've got their attention.

Originally Posted by Permanently A

So how are R* and Take Two supposed to know that halved revenue is a result of a protest against banning mods?

By actually telling them? Jesus, you've got voices and you're using them currently, direct them in a way that will have an impact. Tweet, e-mail, set up a Reddit post, say why you're not happy with that decision and what your action will be. Hell, get some big GTA mods Youtube personality to spread the word. If they see 30k properly worded e-mails (not just FK U ROKSTAH WERE MY MODZ?), if they see their GTAO playerbase drop 20%, if they see their shark card revenue drop 5% they will notice and act.

Noise works when directed correctly, don't waste your opportunity by being a rabble that the company decides is worth ignoring the ire of.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:07 PM)
phantasmic_glaive's Avatar

Originally Posted by PhantomThief

R* is, they have even advertised mods on their blog.

It's take2 throwing a fit here.

If you're playing the mods, you're not playing the online thus not dropping for them shark cards, lol. Damn shame... all that bread and they won't let the fans have their lil things.
Abilidebob
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:08 PM)

Originally Posted by darkinstinct

It's a stupid way. This childish behaviour will just make Valve kill reviews for good, the only working curation of content there is. All Rockstar will think is PC gaming was a mistake. It's not like they need those 8 out of 80 million sales. And I guess the majority of users are pretty damn thankful in the first place for stopping mods, because only a minority uses them and they don't like being griefed upon, which is why Rockstar shut down Open IV in the first place. This is just a vocal stupid minority abusing the review system. Go to Twitter, send nuts to their office, do what normal people do.

There's so much wrong with this post that I am physically ill from its stupidity.
Sini
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:09 PM)
Sini's Avatar

Originally Posted by PhantomThief

Corporate defenders are the worst posters. Dp they get paid for their blatant anti-consumer stances they post on and on about?

A horrible action taken against fans of GTAV and its modding community, and some of your guys advice is to just stay quiet and do nothing?

Like how do you come up with this stuff. Them sarcastic remarks aren't funny either.

I wish fanboys and similar ridiculous (who are serious, funny ones are good) posters would just be banned on sight.
Glasshole
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:09 PM)

Originally Posted by PhantomThief

Corporate defenders are the worst posters. Dp they get paid for their blatant anti-consumer stances they post on and on about?

A horrible action taken against fans of GTAV and its modding community, and some of your guys advice is to just stay quiet and do nothing?

Like how do you come up with this stuff. Them sarcastic remarks aren't funny either.

Absolutely this. Cynicism and pessimism are just mechanisms to prevent you from ever trying, because there's the option of failure. In the end, it's just cowardice.
Aranath
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:09 PM)
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Good on everyone letting T2 and R* know that this kind of treatment is ridiculous and unnaceptable. If I had the Steam version, I'd be doing the same.
RyanW
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:10 PM)
And I bet you they're all still playing the game anyways
Lamptramp
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Jesus at that graph.

Good for the PC community, I've only got/played it on console but I fully understand/appreciate the frustration that this truly asinine move has generated. Perhaps one could argue its an abuse of the review system on steam but personally I think its an reasonable way to lodge a protest, and at least the majority of the reviews (or at least what I've glanced through) explain the reason why. Far better than not buying (too late for most I expect), not buying DLC or spamming social media with insults.
HawaiianDreads
Junior Member
(06-18-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sini

I wish fanboys and similar ridiculous (who are serious, funny ones are good) posters would just be banned on sight.

But where would we get our entertainment from? I mean I know it's annoying and stupid but I find it funny how people defend these decisions and what excuse they come up with to justify it.
True Fire
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Glasshole

It's this anticipatory obedience stance that prevents us from having nice things. "Let us not anger Valve or Rockstar! Let us be civil! Their feelings will be hurt!"

This is a fucking business. They will not retract from PC gaming, and Valve will not kill off their only working curation system, as you yourself called it. Grow up and start thinking strategically instead of shoving your head in the sand. They pulled a HUGE dick move, modding files that you bought (except cheating) is NOT illegal, and changing the rules after you bought the product probably is. They absolutely should feel the backlash.

Releasing a C&D on your own intellectual property is certainly not illegal. You're accusing someone else of not thinking strategically? This is T2's attempt to clean up GTAO, which is their #1 money maker. It's a pretty clear cut strategy. I disagree with their approach as a member of the modding community, but T2 answers to shareholders who want results.
Zombegoast
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Meanwhile 90k people are currently playing the game on Steam. If people are smart, they will uninstall the game.

I was only using Euphoria Ragdoll Overhaul and lighting enhancement mod. And of course instead of attacking the individual making malicious mods, they just take the whole modding community down.
Glasshole
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:12 PM)

Originally Posted by True Fire

Releasing a C&D on your own intellectual property is certainly not illegal. You're accusing someone else of not thinking strategically? This is T2's attempt to clean up GTAO, which is their #1 money maker. It's a pretty clear cut strategy. I disagree with their approach, but T2 answers to shareholders who want results.

Do your research.

Their C&D has nothing to do with GTAO, nobody here is saying modding GTAO is a good thing. This is about single player modding.

But thanks for this shitpost. See the post about corporate apologists on your way out. The fact that you're so crassly uninformed tells me your claim about being a "member of the modding community" is BS.
Abilidebob
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:12 PM)

Originally Posted by True Fire

Releasing a C&D on your own intellectual property is certainly not illegal. You're accusing someone else of not thinking strategically? This is T2's attempt to clean up GTAO, which is their #1 money maker. It's a pretty clear cut strategy. I disagree with their approach as a member of the modding community, but T2 answers to shareholders who want results.

Read
The
Fucking
Thread

Originally Posted by Glasshole

Absolutely this. Cynicism and pessimism are just mechanisms to prevent you from ever trying, because there's the option of failure. In the end, it's just cowardice.

Great post.
BernardoOne
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:14 PM)

Originally Posted by Azure Phoenix

At this point in GTA V's life, do you think a significant amount of customers are uninformed enough about the product to consider the Steam review score (but not check the actual reviews) before making their purchase?

Will those reviews dissuade people that were interested in buying it due to modding, particularly due to Youtube videos by personalities? Yes, and YT is one avenue where a lot of noise needs to be made. Will it dissuade people that are buying it for GTA Online? No, and those potential whales are what the publisher and developer care about right now, enough to kick the mod hornets nest.


Yes? Rather than just spraying shit all up the walls actually have an angle of attack, if you want to organise a protest then make the action about not playing GTA Online and not buying any Shark Cards until they reverse this decision. If their userbase or revenue drops by any noticeable amount, then you've got their attention.


By actually telling them? Jesus, you've got voices and you're using them currently, direct them in a way that will have an impact. Tweet, e-mail, set up a Reddit post, say why you're not happy with that decision and what your action will be. Hell, get some big GTA mods Youtube personality to spread the word. If they see 30k properly worded e-mails (not just FK U ROKSTAH WERE MY MODZ?), if they see their GTAO playerbase drop 20%, if they see their shark card revenue drop 5% they will notice and act.

Noise works when directed correctly, don't waste your opportunity by being a rabble that the company decides is worth ignoring the ire of.

Like, every fucking single avenue you suggested is already being used. What is your point here? There are already huge reddit posts, tweets, emails, videos made by several Youtubers. Steam Reviews is one of the many things people are using, not the only one.

Originally Posted by True Fire

Releasing a C&D on your own intellectual property is certainly not illegal. You're accusing someone else of not thinking strategically? This is T2's attempt to clean up GTAO, which is their #1 money maker. It's a pretty clear cut strategy. I disagree with their approach as a member of the modding community, but T2 answers to shareholders who want results.

Actually it is, as they don't own the intellectual property of OpenIV. OpenIV doesn't use Rockstar codee.
"attempt to clean up GTAO". Breh OpenIV literally cannot affect GTAO.
Forward
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:16 PM)
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This gives me hope for the future of gaming. Perhaps we ARE the resistance.
Sniffynose
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:23 PM)
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It's nice to see resistance but we all know that gta5 has sold every copy they could hope for on the planet, and if they announced gta6 everyone would be lining up to buy that instantly.

Internet outrage shifts faster than the wind
sant
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:25 PM)
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Why do they not understand why a lot of dedicated fans buy their games on PC?
Sini
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sniffynose

It's nice to see resistance but we all know that gta4 has sold every copy they could hope for on the planet, and if they announced gta5 everyone would be lining up to buy that instantly.

Internet outrage shifts faster than the wind

What if I told you GTA 5 has been out for over 3 years.
MaddenNFL64
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:26 PM)
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R* used to love highlighting mods, and now they have to backup their retarded ass publisher.
aspiegamer
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Forward

This gives me hope for the future of gaming. Perhaps we ARE the resistance.

Unless 90% of people who have purchased GTAV boycott all future products in the series, Take Two isn't going to give a shit. People are going to buy GTA because it's GTA, and the PC market for it is nothing compared to the consoles. A quick steamspy check suggests ~15%.

Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

Okay, Steam reviews aren't trash, but they're a joke. I have a feeling that a lot of those snap anger reviews are people with hundreds upon hundreds of hours played. They've clearly enjoyed their time with the product, making an opinion stated now pretty much a joke. Not saying they don't have a right to express their displeasure (I'd be pissed if I were a GTA modder!), but trying to claim Steam is any sort of basis for reasoned discussion is laughable at best.
Azure Phoenix
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

Like, every fucking single avenue you suggested is already being used. What is your point here? There are already huge reddit posts, tweets, emails, videos made by several Youtubers. Steam Reviews is one of the many things people are using, not the only one.

My original point was replying to someone asking what can be done other than bombing Steam reviews. If you're confident that everyone is taking impactful action rather than just spreading around a bunch of meaningless threats (like "I'm not buying your next game... whenever that is") or just being a noise that they can ride out then that's fine.

Personally I don't care what happens with GTA V since I neither play, like or care about the series. My interest is seeing that you guys put a stop to this so hard and so quickly that no other pub/dev tries it again, because god help me if a similar thing happens to a future Elder Scrolls or Civilization.
MasterMenace
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Means absolutely nothing.

Vote with your wallets.
Van Bur3n
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jack The Nipper

Just don't buy thier next game if you don't like what they are doing. They don't make good games imo.

They use to make good games with midnight club, bully.

It's not about how good a developer Rockstar is. Rockstar is not the issue here. If anything, they've already endorsed the use of mods. It's the shitty company that is pulling their strings that is pulling this bullshit.

Originally Posted by Sini

What if I told you GTA 5 has been out for over 3 years.

Angelus Errare
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by PhantomThief

Corporate defenders are the worst posters. Dp they get paid for their blatant anti-consumer stances they post on and on about?

A horrible action taken against fans of GTAV and its modding community, and some of your guys advice is to just stay quiet and do nothing?

Like how do you come up with this stuff. Them sarcastic remarks aren't funny either.

Well to be fair (not that it makes it better). Defending corporations over people is a time honored American tradition. To many Americans corporations are more important than the rights of people or workers, so it's no shocked to see that translated to people defending corporations here.
PhantomThief
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:30 PM)

Originally Posted by MasterMenace

Means absolutely nothing.

Vote with your wallets.

What do you think people are doing?

Your post is useless. You didn't even bother reading through the thread.


Originally Posted by Angelus Errare

Well to be fair (not that it makes it better). Defending corporations over people is a time honored American tradition. To many Americans corporations are more important than the rights of people or workers, so it's no shocked to see that translated to people defending corporations here.

It's pretty crazy to see. My opinion of America in general has spiraled downwards bigtime over these past few years.
MaddenNFL64
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by aspiegamer

Unless 90% of people who have purchased GTAV boycott all future products in the series, Take Two isn't going to give a shit. People are going to buy GTA because it's GTA, and the PC market for it is nothing compared to the consoles. A quick steamspy check suggests ~15%.
Okay, Steam reviews aren't trash, but they're a joke. I have a feeling that a lot of those snap anger reviews are people with hundreds upon hundreds of hours played. They've clearly enjoyed their time with the product, making an opinion stated now pretty much a joke. Not saying they don't have a right to express their displeasure (I'd be pissed if I were a GTA modder!), but trying to claim Steam is any sort of basis for reasoned discussion is laughable at best.

Why do people keep saying this cynical garbage? You can only show displeasure when it's presented. If this happened before I purchased the game and beat the single player almost a year ago, I would never have given these dudes any money.
Rncewind
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:31 PM)
would maybe a better thing if they hammered it with not playing it

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=english
PhantomThief
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:32 PM)

Originally Posted by Rncewind

would maybe a better thing if they hammered it with not playing it

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=english

Do you know how much GTAV has sold on Steam?

Another garbage post victim blaming gamers.
RichiRamjag
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Forward

This gives me hope for the future of gaming. Perhaps we ARE the resistance.

Nah, gamers have very short memories and jump from cause to cause weekly.
BernardoOne
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:34 PM)

Originally Posted by aspiegamer

Unless 90% of people who have purchased GTAV boycott all future products in the series, Take Two isn't going to give a shit. People are going to buy GTA because it's GTA, and the PC market for it is nothing compared to the consoles. A quick steamspy check suggests ~15%.
Okay, Steam reviews aren't trash, but they're a joke. I have a feeling that a lot of those snap anger reviews are people with hundreds upon hundreds of hours played. They've clearly enjoyed their time with the product, making an opinion stated now pretty much a joke. Not saying they don't have a right to express their displeasure (I'd be pissed if I were a GTA modder!), but trying to claim Steam is any sort of basis for reasoned discussion is laughable at best.

The product objectively got shittier, so adjusting a review to be negative is totally justified. Without mods, it's a terrible game.
Not sure why you're talking about Steamspy: the only copies it counts are the ones directly bought on the steam store, since it's a social club key everywhere else.
Rncewind
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:34 PM)

Originally Posted by PhantomThief

Do you know how much GTAV has sold on Steam?

Do you know that you are not oblieged playing games right now you buyed in the past? Nobody is forcing me to play Shenmue right now

Maybe you should think before type

Originally Posted by RichiRamjag

Nah, gamers have very short memories and jump from cause to cause weekly.


this
WaterAstro
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:34 PM)
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This will just make it so that future games from big developers will either stop supporting mods altogether or control mod content like Bethesda is doing.

Nothing good will come out of it.
MutFox
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by MasterMenace

Means absolutely nothing.

Vote with your wallets.

When people that haven't bought it bring their wallet,
they may not use said wallet.

PC is where it's at due to the community.

Wish the PS4 community were as vocal.
Such short term thinking.
Kssio_Aug
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by WaterAstro

This will just make it so that future games from big developers will either stop supporting mods altogether or control mod content like Bethesda is doing.

Nothing good will come out of it.

And nothing good will happen if people do nothing either.
ghibli99
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:36 PM)
Soon Steam will remove user reviews altogether and just use critic metascores (which actually, I wouldn't mind given the quality of most reviews going for teh lolz).
PhantomThief
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:36 PM)

Originally Posted by Rncewind

Do you know that you are not oblieged playing games right now you buyed in the past? Nobody is forcing me to play Shenmue right now

Maybe you should think before type




this

What does this have to do with people leaving a bad review? What's to say that those people are even playing the game?

Maybe YOU should think before you type duder.

Either way why are you victim blaming the people affected by this? You have stocks in Take2?
Jack The Nipper
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:37 PM)

Originally Posted by Van Bur3n

It's not about how good a developer Rockstar is. Rockstar is not the issue here. If anything, they've already endorsed the use of mods. It's the shitty company that is pulling their strings that is pulling this bullshit.



I'm just saying for me personally it doesn't matter too much.

Mods are cool and the free use laws in other media are also getting wrecked by sega and Disney. Shouldn't happen and shouldn't happen on mods.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
(06-18-2017, 07:37 PM)
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Oh no! With all the bad reviews maybe GTAV won't sell well!
Abilidebob
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:37 PM)

Originally Posted by ghibli99

Soon Steam will remove user reviews altogether and just use critic metascores (which actually, I wouldn't mind given the quality of most reviews going for teh lolz).

Why would Steam remove a system that is working as intended?
Rncewind
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:38 PM)

Originally Posted by PhantomThief

What does this have to do with people leaving a bad review? What's to say that those people are even playing the game?

Maybe YOU should think before you type duder.

I was pointing out that it would make a more effective of a "protest" if GTA was not one of the most played games on steam right now. Also i dont even understand your second sentence.

Nope im fine not mouth foaming claiming everything is a shitpost before understanding the content of the said post, thx

edit:

Originally Posted by PhantomThief


Either way why are you victim blaming the people affected by this? You have stocks in Take2?


again, i am even not understand what you write, do you speak with a imagniry person?
PhantomThief
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:38 PM)

Originally Posted by Count of Monte Sawed-Off

Oh no! With all the bad reviews maybe GTAV won't sell well!

I'm pretty sure these sarcastic remarks contribute zilch to the discussion and or thread mr Monte Sawed Off ( great username by the way ).
ShironRedshift
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by MasterMenace

Means absolutely nothing.

Vote with your wallets.

And how are R*/T2 supposed to know what exactly people are voting for and why exactly their unhappy? This is how. "Voting with your wallets" by itself is meaningless because R* aren't mind-readers. This lets them know exactly why people are unhappy. It's not an either-or situation.
Hektor
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rncewind

Do you know that you are not oblieged playing games right now you buyed in the past? Nobody is forcing me to play Shenmue right now

Maybe you should think before type

Maybe the 100K people playing don't care about this issue while the other 7.1 Million that bought the game on steam do care and actually stopped playing?

Maybe you should think before type

Originally Posted by MasterMenace

Means absolutely nothing.

Vote with your wallets.

The change happened this week, the game on the other hand released years ago.
It's too late to actually "vote with your wallet" outside of the microtransactions.

And secondly, voting with your wallet is useless if there isn't an "outrage" of people saying why they did what they did.
Fata1moose
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:40 PM)

Originally Posted by LelouchZero


Take Two sent the OpenIV developers a C&D, it is used to modify the game, with it people create mods for the game, such as vehicle and texture mods etc.
It is used for the single player portion of the game and you can't access online with it installed.

Okay, that's pretty lame by Take Teo then.
PhantomThief
Banned
(06-18-2017, 07:40 PM)

Originally Posted by Rncewind

I was pointing out that it would make a more effective of a "protest" if GTA was not one of the most played games on steam right now. Also i dont even understand your second sentence.

Nope im fine not mouthfothaming claiming everything is a shitpost before understanding the content of the said post, thx

Dude you literally do not understand what I am saying, and it seems you have some hardships in formulating what you wish to say. Mouthfathoming? Dude.

What I am saying is, why do you thik the people who left these negative reviews are still playing the game?

Oh that's right, you don't. Now please stop your nonsense bruh.
Rncewind
Member
(06-18-2017, 07:41 PM)

Originally Posted by Hektor

Maybe the 100K people playing don't care about this issue while the other 7.1 Million that bought the game on steam do care and actually stopped playing?

Maybe you should think before type

Would be a great point if there would not be data, which leave no place for imagniry ridicoulus maybes. The ammount of people playing are steady at there were no major falloff, especially not in the region you claim

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