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JesseEwiak
Member
(06-18-2017, 10:09 PM)

Originally Posted by PhantomThief

Why would you not attack a company ( verbally ) that clearly does things that are anti-consumer?

Why does that hurt you?

In this specific case it's removing things that people may have bought the game for. So changing a product after the fact.

Because fanboys describe anything a company does they don't like. When I hear the phrase 'anti-consumer', 90% of the time it's just somebody complaining a company isn't doing exactly what they want, they way they want, at the price (usually free) they want.
Hektor
Member
(06-18-2017, 10:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aaron D.

If you want to protest a company, stop buying a product.

In all your cited examples this is absolutely not an option at all because the people already bought it before the upsetting thing happened.

Originally Posted by Aaron D.

Write them a letter. Hell, write your congressman. But falsely posting Negative User Reviews is not only a mistake, it's disingenuous and misleading. Your reviewing the Publisher and not the Game. And that's not what the system is there for.

In this case the change by 2K actively affects the quality of the game. It makes it defacto a much inferior product. There are a lot of people that buy a game like this because of the mods, hell, there might even be people that buy the game right now because they saw a video of an amazing mod that they now suddenly cant play because of what 2K did.

Originally Posted by Ardenyal

How about no one attacks anyone and everyone just ignores entertainment products that do not support things they like.

GTAV released 2 years ago and its modding community was attacked by 2K this week, it's literally impossible to ignore because people already bought the fucking game before it happened
HeatBoost
Member
(06-18-2017, 10:18 PM)
On one hand, Steam reviews aren't really the appropriate place for this kind of thing

That being said, there really isn't any appropriate place for them that would actually catch the publisher's eye in a meaningful way, so I can understand why the Steam reviews would be chosen
Dick Justice
Banned
(06-18-2017, 10:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Jabo

Huge backlash kinda reminded me of this:

Page 1 of 17. Hmm.

Originally Posted by EloKa

i'm not familar with GTA Online Cheats.
But OpenIV allows to inject external content (like mods) into the game engine. Using this method other people wrote hooks that allow those "piracy servers" which is basically the normal single player game but emulated to play online with others. Guess GTA:O cheats will work on the same basics by using OpenIV to inject their Code. From the technical side it should work and T2's statement hints that way as well

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Points made by a more experienced modder than myself:

a) You cannot inject external content into a game engine, that kind of statement is incorrect on so many levels, it makes no fucking sense
b) OpenIV could edit game files, not inject code into memory (that's scripts)
c) Any edits made with OpenIV are file edits only, and those are stupidly easy to detect by GTAO
Ganado
Member
(06-18-2017, 10:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hektor

In all your cited examples this is absolutely not an option at all because the people already bought it before the upsetting thing happened.



In this case the change by 2K actively affects the quality of the game. It makes it defacto a much inferior product. There are a lot of people that buy a game like this because of the mods, hell, there might even be people that buy the game right now because they saw a video of an amazing mod that they now suddenly cant play because of what 2K did.



GTAV released 2 years ago and its modding community was attacked by 2K this week, it's literally impossible to ignore because people already bought the fucking game before it happened

It's Take 2, not 2K, even though they are owned by them.

Originally Posted by ImTheJudgeandJury

Another reason i love PC gaming they can unite asap to put publishers in their place. We will see what happens in hte future though. Now we need this same amount energy for Sony cross-play.

From what you hear around here, many are good with the 60 million userbase, which is very short-sighted, but yeah.
PhantomThief
Banned
(06-18-2017, 10:56 PM)

Originally Posted by JesseEwiak

Because fanboys describe anything a company does they don't like. When I hear the phrase 'anti-consumer', 90% of the time it's just somebody complaining a company isn't doing exactly what they want, they way they want, at the price (usually free) they want.

What a ridiculous notion.
xrnzaaas
Member
(06-18-2017, 10:56 PM)
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I see no reason for not being an asshole to a publisher that made an asshole move on purpose. Plus Steam reviews actually mean something (not a lot unfortunately when it's a game like GTA) as opposed to petitions.
Servbot24
Banned
(06-18-2017, 10:58 PM)

Originally Posted by Zeneric

aka don't fuck with fans.

I think R* is okay with having a bajillion dollars and some pouty fans throwing the occasional tantrum
ZombieSupaStar
beaten too hard
or not enough <3
(06-18-2017, 11:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jabo

Huge backlash kinda reminded me of this:

16 players out of 612 on a public group played a game they were boycotting.
MrToast
Member
(06-18-2017, 11:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by ZombieSupaStar

16 players out of 612 on a public group played a game they were boycotting.

Well, they could have joined the group for a laugh to get a reaction. That or other reasons like the one already described.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
(06-18-2017, 11:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by ZombieSupaStar

16 players out of 612 on a public group played a game they were boycotting.

Out of the members online, about half were playing it.

Reflects the people with thousands of hours in a game giving a not recommended. People feel so "strongly" that they'll go through the minimum effort to change it. The real effort is not buying the next expansion or game or w/e. I'm pretty damn sure anyone with thousands of hours in the game can justify the next purchase.
Dick Justice
Banned
(06-18-2017, 11:23 PM)

Originally Posted by Mobius and pet octopus

Reflects the people with thousands of hours in a game giving a not recommended. People feel so "strongly" that they'll go through the minimum effort to change it.

I'd say it's probably more effort than, say, creating an avatar with the word "impeach" to protest Donald Trump.

This, combined with your previous post in this topic, really is prime shill material. Whine some more about people making their voices heard while you sit back and contribute jack shit. I'm sure that's all you've got going for you.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
(06-18-2017, 11:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dick Justice

I'd say it's probably more effort than, say, creating an avatar with the words "impeach" to protest Donald Trump.

Oh boy you got me. We got a real bruiser in the thread here.

Originally Posted by Dick Justice


This, combined with your previous post in this topic, really is prime shill material. Whine about people making their voice heard. I'm sure that's all you've got going for you.

LMAO, now I'm being accused of being a shill. Perfect. Get this person a medal.

edit:
I see that you edited your post for a third time. It's incredible you go so personally after me so hard for no apparent reason. Have fun being a troll on a site that'll eventually ban you for personal attacks. Just ignoring and moving on with my life.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
(06-18-2017, 11:28 PM)
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I want to say keep up the good fight but the truth is, a conglomerate like Take Two really doesn't give a shit. I believe console players make up the most GTA online force and if they aren't using mods then maybe the philosophy is PC players shouldn't either. Now this doesn't make what they did good and I'm not defending it but I don't know how downvoting a game that sells over 80+ million is sending a message. It seems like everyone who has the game already...has it? 🤷🏾*♀️

I do wish the best for PC gamers and their efforts in sending this message. I doubt many of them are giving up RDR2 if it came to PC so...idk.
EuropeOG
Member
(06-18-2017, 11:29 PM)
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But it's a good game.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
(06-18-2017, 11:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by AyaisMUsikWhore

I want to say keep up the good fight but the truth is, a conglomerate like Take Two really doesn't give a shit. I believe console players make up the most GTA online force and if they aren't using mods then maybe the philosophy is PC players shouldn't either. Now this doesn't make what they did good and I'm not defending it but I don't know how downvoting a game that sells over 80+ million is sending a message. It seems like everyone who has the game already...has it? 🤷🏾*♀️

I do wish the best for PC gamers and their efforts in sending this message. I doubt many of them are giving up RDR2 if it came to PC so...idk.

I dunno why'd they stop modding, modding keeps games like this vibrant years and years after release. But they must have some motive. Perhaps they're planning on more content? It's also a little odd that they're making this move so far after release, assuming this is the first time they're doing it.
PhantomThief
Banned
(06-18-2017, 11:42 PM)

Originally Posted by Servbot24

I think R* is okay with having a bajillion dollars and some pouty fans throwing the occasional tantrum

People who care about modding = pouty fans throwing a tantrum.

Ok sir, weird train of thought.
Hektor
Member
(06-18-2017, 11:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mobius and pet octopus

Reflects the people with thousands of hours in a game giving a not recommended. People feel so "strongly" that they'll go through the minimum effort to change it. The real effort is not buying the next expansion or game or w/e. I'm pretty damn sure anyone with thousands of hours in the game can justify the next purchase.

So basically, not doing anything at all until they many years from now, when it's already too late?

Originally Posted by Ganado

It's Take 2, not 2K, even though they are owned by them.

Why do they need to have these similar names

Originally Posted by EuropeOG

But it's a good game.

And now it's become objectively worse
Shadowhelper
Member
(06-19-2017, 12:10 AM)
I don't get it, are people saying Take2 is lying?

Either they are doing it protect the integrity of the online experience, since some how Open IV is being used to compromise that experience, apparently. Or they are lying, and there would obviously be a reason for that.

I can't think of any reason, or any evidence to suggest they are lying, so unless they are, I don't have that much sympathy for moders, or this situation.
MUnited83
For you.
(06-19-2017, 12:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shadowhelper

I don't get it, are people saying Take2 is lying?

Either they are doing it protect the integrity of the online experience, since some how Open IV is being used to compromise that experience, apparently. Or they are lying, and there would obviously be a reason for that.

I can't think of any reason, or any evidence to suggest they are lying, so unless they are, I don't have that much sympathy for moders, or this situation.

Take2 is lying. OpenIV can't interact with the online portion of the game. It's bullshit, plain and simple.
Dick Justice
Banned
(06-19-2017, 12:12 AM)

Originally Posted by Shadowhelper

I don't get it, are people saying Take2 is lying?

Either they are doing it protect the integrity of the online experience, since some how Open IV is being used to compromise that experience, apparently. Or they are lying, and there would obviously be a reason for that.

I can't think of any reason, or any evidence to suggest they are lying, so unless they are, I don't have that much sympathy for moders, or this situation.

Maybe if you actually had a clue about the situation and the parties involved, you'd understand. But easier to just blame the modders, rather than the greedy-ass publisher who's CEO recently said that they weren't monetizing their games enough, right? You're either incredibly naive, or an incredibly diehard GTA fanboy.

Also fucking LOL at "integrity of the online experience". The online is a piece of shit that's been riddled with glitches, cheaters and griefers since day one. OpenIV was not a tool used to cheat. That would be the script tools, like this charmingly-named one.
EloKa
Member
(06-19-2017, 12:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dick Justice

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Points made by a more experienced modder than myself:

a) You cannot inject external content into a game engine, that kind of statement is incorrect on so many levels, it makes no fucking sense
b) OpenIV could edit game files, not inject code into memory (that's scripts)
c) Any edits made with OpenIV are file edits only, and those are stupidly easy to detect by GTAO

doesn't change the fact that there are "piracy servers" that T2 propably doesn't like atm. And these servers do heavily depend on OpenIV and Script Hook V. The author of OpenIV has nothing to do with theses servers but they are only possible due to this toolkit.
In case you're wondering how these changes aren't detected in GTA:O: they are made to the single player but still allow players to play online on those servers. Therefore the detection fails for these use cases

Originally Posted by BernardoOne

Take2 is lying. OpenIV can't interact with the online portion of the game. It's bullshit, plain and simple.

the currently hyped "GTA RP Multiplayer" appears outside of the GTA Online due to emulation
ReBurn
Member
(06-19-2017, 12:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by PhantomThief

People who care about modding = pouty fans throwing a tantrum.

There's probably some overlap on the Venn diagram.

It's weird that Take Two would do this if it only impacts single player. I read their response that it was impacting the online experience. It would be nice if they provided some evidence of this and work with the mod creator so they can fix it instead of shutting them down.
ReDelicious
Member
(06-19-2017, 12:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pantaghana

T2 doesn't deserve a massage right now.
MUnited83
For you.
(06-19-2017, 12:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by EloKa

doesn't change the fact that there are "piracy servers" that T2 propably doesn't like atm. And these servers do heavily depend on OpenIV and Script Hook V. The author of OpenIV has nothing to do with theses servers but they are only possible due to this toolkit.
In case you're wondering how these changes aren't detected in GTA:O: they are made to the single player but still allow players to play online on those servers. Therefore the detection fails for these use cases


the currently hyped "GTA RP Multiplayer" appears outside of the GTA Online due to emulation

GTA RP multiplayer doesn't use OpenIV, it uses FiveM and that has a authentication process so it only works with legit copies.
Mman235
Member
(06-19-2017, 12:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by darkinstinct

This childish behaviour will just make Valve kill reviews for good

Good. If people speaking up about gross practices with an AAA game kills Steam Reviews and not the several games targeted because the developer was a woman or there was a gay person in it or whatever assholes are mad about right now then it just shows how unsalvageably awful they are.

And lol at "vote with your wallet" still being a thing (setting aside that the game has been out for ages). Publishers would twist something like that into "nobody bought GTA5 because mods ruined their experience". Actually speaking up is what gets things like this to change.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Shadowhelper

I don't get it, are people saying Take2 is lying?

Either they are doing it protect the integrity of the online experience, since some how Open IV is being used to compromise that experience, apparently. Or they are lying, and there would obviously be a reason for that.

I can't think of any reason, or any evidence to suggest they are lying, so unless they are, I don't have that much sympathy for moders, or this situation.

Wait, we're so far down the corporate apologist hole now that we're implying that publishers don't lie out their ass all the time when it's the road to more profits? Lol
ScientificPizza
Banned
(06-19-2017, 12:43 AM)
Good. Their modding stance is ridiculous

I get wanting to keep online free of cheating, but *any* kind of modding being illegal is insane
Irishonion
Member
(06-19-2017, 12:46 AM)
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Pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered, blah blah cliche response etc...
EloKa
Member
(06-19-2017, 01:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

GTA RP multiplayer doesn't use OpenIV, it uses FiveM and that has a authentication process so it only works with legit copies.

depends on the server structure. Newer ones definately use OpenIV (at least 2 large ones I know of) with HookV Scripts and work pretty much the same way (only with legit copies).

but FiveM already shared the exact same fate 2 years ago when it was banned. Single Player modding is fine but as soon as you provide a potential competitor to GTA Online - end especially try to earn money with it - T2 and Rockstar will shut it down
MUnited83
For you.
(06-19-2017, 01:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by EloKa

depends on the server structure. Newer ones definately use OpenIV (at least 2 large ones I know of) with HookV Scripts and work pretty much the same way (only with legit copies).

but FiveM already shared the exact same fate 2 years ago when it was banned. Single Player modding is fine but as soon as you provide a potential competitor to GTA Online - end especially try to earn money with it - T2 and Rockstar will shut it down

FiveM is alive and well, and it is where most RP games are being done.
Dick Justice
Banned
(06-19-2017, 01:21 AM)

Originally Posted by EloKa

doesn't change the fact that there are "piracy servers" that T2 propably doesn't like atm. And these servers do heavily depend on OpenIV and Script Hook V. The author of OpenIV has nothing to do with theses servers but they are only possible due to this toolkit.
In case you're wondering how these changes aren't detected in GTA:O: they are made to the single player but still allow players to play online on those servers. Therefore the detection fails for these use cases

You got any sources for this?

Also I'll ask again. Why is this tool still up?. Interesting how Take Two decided to go after OpenIV first, which allows for content usually gated behind microtransaction paywalls to be used for free in single player, instead of an actual cheating tool. Ultimately, OpenIV is not a scripting tool. Stop trying to pretend that it is, or if you're going to make those claims, at least back them up.
Usobuko
Banned
(06-19-2017, 01:25 AM)
Curious but what's the breakdown for the sales of PC and consoles version of GTA V?

I don't even remember how much GTA sells anymore, only the part where it was implied that for every new consoles, people usually buy a gta game along with it.
MisterHero
Super Member
(06-19-2017, 01:28 AM)
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It's a long shot but I hope Shark Card sales take an indefinite dip
War Raichu
Member
(06-19-2017, 01:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dick Justice

Maybe if you actually had a clue about the situation and the parties involved, you'd understand. But easier to just blame the modders, rather than the greedy-ass publisher who's CEO recently said that they weren't monetizing their games enough, right? You're either incredibly naive, or an incredibly diehard GTA fanboy.

Also fucking LOL at "integrity of the online experience". The online is a piece of shit that's been riddled with glitches, cheaters and griefers since day one. OpenIV was not a tool used to cheat. That would be the script tools, like this charmingly-named one.

that script name made me laugh way harder than it should've

really shows you the kind of people that use such a thing
Kurdel
Banned
(06-19-2017, 01:40 AM)
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Oh no, not the user reviews score!!
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
(06-19-2017, 01:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mobius and pet octopus

I dunno why'd they stop modding, modding keeps games like this vibrant years and years after release. But they must have some motive. Perhaps they're planning on more content? It's also a little odd that they're making this move so far after release, assuming this is the first time they're doing it.

But when you really think about it, GTA online isn't a game that needs modding to stay a live. It's been 5 years since its release and it's still blowing up the charts in sales and so much content continues to be made. At this current time, until the next GTA which is definitely years out from now...modding really and truly doesn't need to be here. However I do get people wanting to make the game more fun for themselves. Unfortunately though, there are still more people playing unmodded than those modded. What really sucks from all of this is the funny YouTube videos these mods created 😔
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
(06-19-2017, 01:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by AyaisMUsikWhore

But when you really think about it, GTA online isn't a game that needs modding to stay a live. It's been 5 years since its release and it's still blowing up the charts in sales and so much content continues to be made. At this current time, until the next GTA which is definitely years out from now...modding really and truly doesn't need to be here. However I do get people wanting to make the game more fun for themselves. Unfortunately though, there are still more people playing unmodded than those modded. What really sucks from all of this is the funny YouTube videos these mods created 😔

Even if it isn't an important aspect right now, it could have been 5 years from now. GTA4 had (probably still has) a modding scene.
Budi
Member
(06-19-2017, 02:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by BernardoOne

Take2 is lying. OpenIV can't interact with the online portion of the game. It's bullshit, plain and simple.

So Rockstar is lying too?

While we have not received a comment from Take-Two, Rockstar just sent PC Gamer its statement on the matter. Here it is in full:

"Take-Two's actions were not specifically targeting single player mods. Unfortunately OpenIV enables recent malicious mods that allow harassment of players and interfere with the GTA Online experience for everybody. We are working to figure out how we can continue to support the creative community without negatively impacting our players."

Dick Justice
Banned
(06-19-2017, 02:02 AM)

Originally Posted by Budi

So Rockstar is lying too?

They're a subsidiary of Take Two. So yes, yes they are.
Jawmuncher
(06-19-2017, 02:03 AM)
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Signed.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
(06-19-2017, 02:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Budi

So Rockstar is lying too?

Yes, they're covering for Take Two's extremely dumb move. This is all a facade to go after FiveM and custom content.
Budi
Member
(06-19-2017, 02:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dick Justice

They're a subsidiary of Take Two. So yes, yes they are.

Originally Posted by Alexander DeLarge

Yes, they're covering for Take Two's extremely dumb move. This is all a facade to go after FiveM and custom content.

Originally Posted by BernardoOne

The studio owned by Take Two, that needs to repeat whatever T2 tells them as the PR line? Yes, they are lying.

All right, fair enough. Never used the mod so I have very little knowledge about it. If you guys say it can't interfere with online experiences, I believe you.
MUnited83
For you.
(06-19-2017, 02:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Budi

So Rockstar is lying too?

The studio owned by Take Two, that needs to repeat whatever T2 tells them as the PR line? Yes, they are lying.
shiyrley
Banned
(06-19-2017, 02:07 AM)
I never spent a single euro on microtransaction and will continue to do so even if I get to play GTA online again sometime, so it's not like they "lost" anything from me, but I still put a negative review on there. Fuck this decision.
Budi
Member
(06-19-2017, 02:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by shiyrley

I never spent a single euro on microtransaction and will continue to do so even if I get to play GTA online again sometime, so it's not like they "lost" anything from me, but I still put a negative review on there. Fuck this decision.

Are you continuing to support Rockstar and Take-Two financially in other ways than microtransactions?
Saucycarpdog
Member
(06-19-2017, 02:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Piers

"Rockstar come on release GTA6 on PC >:("
"No mods yeah? :D"
"Fuck you modding is everything"
"Pass :D"
"FUCK YOU!!"

Reading comprehension is hard for you I see. Don't worry. ;)
StereoVsn
Member
(06-19-2017, 02:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by User33

The corporate apology in this topic is disgusting.

It is really ridiculous, isn't it. Same shit is going on in the Paradox thread where they jacked up prices up to 2x due to "increased purchasing power and/or currency devaluations".

Corporate apologists will defend anything like the CF with previous attempt of Bethesda's paid mods.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Budi

Are you continuing to support Rockstar and Take-Two financially in other ways than microtransactions?

Personally I am strongly considering skipping NBA 2K18 and RDR2 despite really liking the previous games.
JesseEwiak
Member
(06-19-2017, 02:16 AM)

Originally Posted by StereoVsn

It is really ridiculous, isn't it. Same shit is going on in the Paradox thread where they jacked up prices up to 2x due to "increased purchasing power and/or currency devaluations".

Corporate apologists will defend anything like the CF with previous attempt of Bethesda's paid mods.

Edit:
Personally I am strongly considering skipping NBA 2K18 and RDR2 despite really liking the previous games.

Why shouldn't Paradox actually charge for things based on the actual power of the currency instead of what it was years ago?

Why shouldn't modmakers get paid if they wish?
The Albatross
Member
(06-19-2017, 02:17 AM)
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Anybody defending Take2's decision here is just... incredibly off base. The overwhelmingly huge majority of players are not using OpenIV to create online cheats in GTA Online or take money from Rockstar or Take2. GTAV sells way more copies because of PC mods and Rockstar has promoted those mods before. GTA Online has already been hacked to pieces by glitchers and exploiters, and none of those people are using OpenIV to do that. Banning OpenIV doesn't even solve the problem with cheaters in GTA Online, in fact, people playing online-enabled OpenIV mods are much less likely to be cheaters, as those communities are way smaller and much more dedicated (like GTA Roleplay servers).

Originally Posted by Fata1moose

What was the mod? I've seen Skyrim mods that shouldn't be allowed to exist, some enforcement from developers isn't a bad thing.

It's the tool that's used to make mods. Take2, the holding company behind Rockstar, randomly banned it even though Rockstar has openly supported and endorsed the tool int he past.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
(06-19-2017, 02:21 AM)

Originally Posted by Budi

All right, fair enough. Never used the mod so I have very little knowledge about it. If you guys say it can't interfere with online experiences, I believe you.

If I were to accidentally boot my modded version of GTA instead of the vanilla to connect to the online portion my account would be flagged for banning more or less immediately. Can also chime in for OpenIV being SP focused.

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