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ViolentP
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:10 PM)
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Nothing about Call of Duty is lauded for authenticity. Open up the options and let people be free to make their own choices.
Ushojax
Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
(06-19-2017, 05:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheWorthyEdge

Honestly I think they should've kept the swastikas and not had African American soldiers on the Axis? It's totally fine that they didn't and went this direction, I just feel like maybe they shouldn't for game purposes. Seems like they're worrying about the consumer more than the game itself.

I don't really think we should spend any time trying to preserve the historical accuracy of a laughable and contemptible faction like the Nazis in a silly videogame multiplayer mode. The story of WW2 is utterly irrelevant to multiplayer, all it provides is a backdrop and the style of equipment. Preserving the swastika and whites-only structure is not necessary in a narrative-free mode.
Arkam
(06-19-2017, 05:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by feint_ruled

10 years ago: We won't have swastikas in the MP as no-one will want to play as Nazis
Now: We won't have swastikas in the MP as too many people will want to play as Nazis

But yeah, joking aside. Forcing people to play as Nazis with associated iconography would be pretty poor taste. It's right they whitewash it a bit for MP.

That is a good point. Not many people actually want to be a Nazi... even in a game. But then again I keep being forced to be Soviets and "terrorists" in other games. Guess no one really wants to be legit bad guys.
ROUGE_BLOCK
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by IcyStorm

The amount of people upset at this is mindboggling, but I shouldn't be surprised I guess?

EDIT:



No one is going to learn anything from the multiplayer part of an FPS like COD or Battlefield, which is often symmetrical anyway. They're using it in singleplayer and they're going to be able to show how awful the Nazis were there.

Thats no excuse for its removal, nor is it the point. The point is if you're making a WWII game you show the iconography in all modes and aspects of the game. It makes no sense to shy away from it in one mode over the other even if people dont learn shit from it. Historical authenticity at least a fucking attempt at it should be shown in single player, MP and Nazi zombies. I mean if we're playing as them in MP and using their guns how is that any better?

The only reason I would accept is the esports angle as its true advertisers wouldnt want to sponsor it and Activision owns both cod and MLG which is their debut competitive FPS. If that's the case come out and say it and i also agree with adding a tiggle to it then.
Fury451
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(06-19-2017, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by ViolentP

Nothing about Call of Duty is lauded for authenticity. Open up the options and let people be free to make their own choices.

Pre-modern warfare 2, the campaigns were fairly authentic(ish). Full of a ton of set pieces, yes, but the games do their homework in terms of historical context and background.

That said, they're keeping that for the single player so the multiplayer can be whatever they wanted to be. I'm OK with that
kiguel182
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(06-19-2017, 05:13 PM)
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With alt right and all of that I think that playing as a Nazi is even worse today than it was like 10 years ago. Multiplayer is supposed to be mindless fun and having you as a Nazi shooting down black people in the allied side isn't pleasant or fun.
Straight Edge
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(06-19-2017, 05:14 PM)
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There is a difference between realism and verisimilitude. Regenerating health breaks one and an ersatz German army breaks the other.
Deckard Chapel
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(06-19-2017, 05:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by killroy87

I'll be the fake spokesperson for Sledgehammer, and tell you why they don't do that;

1) the amount of players who would actually use it would probably be minuscule.

2) Since the game includes cosmetics that (I assume) are tied in some way to microtransactions, I as a consumer would feel a whole lot less enticed to spend money if I knew people might not see my cool shit. That's the whole point of cosmetic items, you want to show them off.

The cosmetic thing is another issue entirely. There are two camps on that as well, I for one am in the camp that thinks that none of that goofy Neon, weed or whatever cosmetic skins should be featured in the multiplayer because of the setting. People do like to show off their customizations, but that just completely breaks the immersion of the conflict that you are in the middle of. No one in WWII ever dressed like this:



Lol
ViolentP
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(06-19-2017, 05:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fury451

Pre-modern warfare 2, the campaigns were fairly authentic(ish). Full of a ton of set pieces, yes, but the games do their homework in terms of historical context and background.

That said, they're keeping that for the single player so the multiplayer can be whatever they wanted to be. I'm OK with that

Point being when you want to refer to historical accuracy in gaming, do you usually go to CoD? I certainly don't. That being the case, I think the franchise should just lean into it and throw all options into multiplayer. Hell, they should let you play as aliens and werewolves for all the importance accuracy has in that context.
Cake Boss
go home you're drunk
(06-19-2017, 05:16 PM)
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I always go to Call of Duty multiplayer for realism and history accuracy fix.



Volphied
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 05:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by kiguel182

With alt right and all of that I think that playing as a Nazi is even worse today than it was like 10 years ago. Multiplayer is supposed to be mindless fun and having you as a Nazi shooting down black people in the allied side isn't pleasant or fun.

Ding ding ding! Correct answer. It's also telling to see that the majority of complaints about this on the internet are coming from youtube comments and 4chan
HiiiLife
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(06-19-2017, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cake Boss

I always go to Call of Duty multiplayer for realism and history accuracy fix.



*nazi dab*
Valar Morghulis
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deckard Chapel



Lol



You know it'l happen though. Activision doesn't give a fuck.
Jeff6851
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(06-19-2017, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Arkam

I think you might want to re-read your history books comrade. Tens of millions died at the hands of Socialism. Unless that just wasnt pure enough.

To the OP I am surprised they are not putting the swastikas in MP. Seems pointless to me. You can slaughter Nazi like dogs in SP but heaven forbid we role play a minute as one in MP. This is like when people were getting up in arms as playing as middle east insurgents shooting at Americans.... its a game people.

I wouldn't read American history books since they downplay all kinds of murder carried out by the US and Europe and vastly exaggerate anything in socialist countries.
feint_ruled
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(06-19-2017, 05:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by ROUGE_BLOCK


The only reason I would accept is the esports angle as its true advertisers wouldnt want to sponsor it and Activision owns both cod and MLG which is their debut competitive FPS. If that's the case come out and say it and i also agree with adding a tiggle to it then.

So you wouldn't accept it on grounds of taste and decency, but you would accept it on commercial grounds? Sounds like your priorities are out of whack!
Alkastelca
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(06-19-2017, 05:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by nhlducks35

More at the link. Personally I'm not a fan of getting rid of the swastika in MP, but for some reason the hammer and sickel is allowed

Meanwhile the United States dropped two atomic bombs, firebomb civilians and committed numerous war crimes...
ROUGE_BLOCK
Member
(06-19-2017, 05:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deckard Chapel

The cosmetic thing is another issue entirely. There are two camps on that as well, I for one am in the camp that thinks that none of that goofy Neon, weed or whatever cosmetic skins should be featured in the multiplayer because of the setting. People do like to show off their customizations, but that just completely breaks the immersion of the conflict that you are in the middle of. No one in WWII ever dressed like this:



Lol

Oh no, that will be a thing along with the all the supply drops to fuel it.
Volphied
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 05:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jeff6851

I wouldn't read American history books since they downplay all kinds of murder carried out by the US and Europe and vastly exaggerate anything in socialist countries.

Just the millions who died during the transatlantic slave trade makes it hypocritical for the West to accuse others of being mass murderers.

Nevertheless, I'm OK with Nazi symbolism being banned, since unlike other ideologies, Nazism doesn't have even a tiny speck of anything good about it. It's evil from top to bottom.
Deckard Chapel
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(06-19-2017, 05:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by feint_ruled

So you wouldn't accept it on grounds of taste and decency, but you would accept it on commercial grounds? Sounds like your priorities are out of whack!

I keep hearing people say that, regarding "taste" and Nazi iconography. Nazi iconography and World War II itself actually happened - censoring it in multiplayer [a global conflict] is kind of ironic, since World War II itself was a global conflict.

Why should Nazi iconography have to be censored, when it actually happened historically?
killroy87
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(06-19-2017, 05:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deckard Chapel

The cosmetic thing is another issue entirely. There are two camps on that as well, I for one am in the camp that thinks that none of that goofy Neon, weed or whatever cosmetic skins should be featured in the multiplayer because of the setting. People do like to show off their customizations, but that just completely breaks the immersion of the conflict that you are in the middle of. No one in WWII ever dressed like this:



Lol

I mean, like you said, it's just a matter of how much that means to you. Call of Duty is far, farrrrrr away removed from a point in their heritage where they adhere to realism. The multiplayer aspect has been like that for a good long time, and if that bothers you in this game more than past COD titles simply because of the time period, you're probably barking up the wrong tree here.

People are free to not like it, but things like that have been part of COD for years now.
Volphied
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 05:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deckard Chapel

I keep hearing people say that, regarding "taste" and Nazi iconography. Nazi iconography and World War II itself actually happened - censoring it in multiplayer [a global conflict] is kind of ironic, since World War II itself was a global conflict.

Why should Nazi iconography have to be censored, when it actually happened historically?

Multiplayer is so far away from what happened historically that removing swastikas is the least non-historical thing about it.
TimeEffect
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(06-19-2017, 05:28 PM)
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One of the reasons I was happy with WW2 setting was a better defined faction system.

I hated seeing colourful guns and taunts and a lack of "Armies" in the futuristic games and wanted to play some traditional MP where it was two warring factions against each other.

I dont want or expect the customization to go as crazy as past games, and I think BF1 has largely done it pretty okay.

I think Id be put off seeing black Nazi soldiers fighting alongside white Nazis. Seeing the Nazi symbol isnt a big deal to me, but I just want the factions to feel like factions, meaning differentiating voice work and no repeat "heroes" like in BO3 and IW that dab and dance together.

I enjoyed playing the older COD games for the thematic factions, with their music, soldiers, etc., though the weapons themselves are all shared.

I draw the line at colourful customization in these games. I know soldiers didnt respawn and jump out windows, but I drew the line at crazy dumb personalization where the game was about making a "you" character instead of playing a defined soldier of a faction.

Itd also be weird to see black or white soldiers in the Japanese faction. It's got nothing to do with realism and more to do with making factions feel like their own group. It's not a deal breaker, but I dont see the necessity to mix up the factions like that, but as long as they dont do what they did in BO3, it wont bother me as much as it bothers others.
Deckard Chapel
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(06-19-2017, 05:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volphied

Multiplayer is so far away from what happened historically that removing swastikas is the least non-historical thing about it.

The issue is that the maps we're playing on in Call of Duty: WWII multiplayer are historical WWII battlegrounds, like the Ardennes Forest and Pointe Du Hoc.

The Nazi bunkers there had Nazi iconography on them, so I just don't see the point in censoring those markings when you're playing in an actual historical landmark battleground.
BetterThanNothing
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(06-19-2017, 05:29 PM)
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The lack of a swastika is unacceptable. Showing what is supposed to be historically accurate while excepting the most recognizable symbol of hate of all time does more damage than showing it.

I guess we should just learn from history books that only tell of good things.

I don't care about having women as soldiers because there's a good reason for that: women play video games.

It's a joke. It's like they made a game about the American Civil War and told everyone the South seceded because they wanted the cotton all to themselves. It's fucking ridiculous.

Though, it's reasonable that you shouldn't force people to be a particular side in MP. I still remember feeling a bit guilty about playing the Germans in CoD2 because I preferred their rifles. Still, the MP is the only reason anyone plays this. It just feels half assed, but then again, we're probably going to be calling in packs of dogs that take 30 bullets each or some shit.
Last edited by BetterThanNothing; 06-19-2017 at 05:32 PM.
ROUGE_BLOCK
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(06-19-2017, 05:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by feint_ruled

So you wouldn't accept it on grounds of taste and decency, but you would accept it on commercial grounds? Sounds like your priorities are out of whack!

Woah! Gotta watch where I step I almost fell into that straw man you set up there ;)

I don't like it anymore as the reasoning for it but it would be more expected as someone said Activision doesn't give a fuck and is all about that money, especially advertising money so at least it makes sense despite it being just as bad.
Previous
check out my new Swatch
(06-19-2017, 05:33 PM)
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I think this is a poor design decision. If you don't want to see swastikas, why are you playing a WW2 game?
Volphied
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(06-19-2017, 05:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deckard Chapel

The issue is that the maps we're playing on in Call of Duty: WWII multiplayer are historical WWII battlegrounds, like the Ardennes Forest and Pointe Du Hoc.

In name. They're historical in name and maybe in one or two landmarks. Otherwise they're so thoroughly gamified and artificial that even Hollywood would be able to stick closer to history.

If you think they can be used as a documentary or to help with your history exam, then lol
Fury451
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(06-19-2017, 05:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by ViolentP

Point being when you want to refer to historical accuracy in gaming, do you usually go to CoD? I certainly don't. That being the case, I think the franchise should just lean into it and throw all options into multiplayer. Hell, they should let you play as aliens and werewolves for all the importance accuracy has in that context.

No, you make a fair point. I think there's some campaign stuff to stir the interest level and read about history there, but multiplayer is certainly not anything I give a shit about terms of accuracy. It's not a franchise I would use to point out any kind of reality though.

Kind of reminds me how assassins creed is probably a series or you could get a ton of historical information because it's incredibly detailed and extensive, but in general I would imagine most people don't even pay attention to it. I'm usually interested in the time and subjects that the games touch on, and even I ignore it most of the time.
Cake Boss
go home you're drunk
(06-19-2017, 05:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Previous

I think this is a poor design decision. If you don't want to see swastikas, why are you playing a WW2 game?

If you want realism and history then why are you playing a video game?
Alex_Mexico
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(06-19-2017, 05:37 PM)
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I'm okay with this. I don't want white supremacy idiots or 4chan trolls feeling empowered by being able to play a Nazi killer.
Button
Banned
(06-19-2017, 05:37 PM)
I want that black female nazi character in MP.
Kinyou
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(06-19-2017, 05:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cake Boss

I always go to Call of Duty multiplayer for realism and history accuracy fix.

I'm not sure why people act like it's so insane to have some expectation for staying close to the setting. What's the whole point of the scenario then?

People simply have different criteria and expectations, no need to pretend that realism or accuracy doesnt matter in any capacity at all.

Personally I don't care that they'll do this with the MP, but I can understand why others do
Afrodium
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(06-19-2017, 05:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chozo_Lord

For a big massive game series like Call of Duty, I don't understand why they can't just add a realism toggle to the multiplayer. Like if you have it off, you see the character everyone chooses (including black female nazis), you see the crazy skins on the guns and uniforms, you don't see swastikas. If you turn it on, you only see a german male as a nazi, all the guns and uniforms look realistic, swastikas where appropriate. All of these visual changes would only be client-side, so only the player would see these changes. Sure it would cost more for the developers to make multiple assets, but for a huge series like COD that makes a buttload of money it shouldn't be a big deal. It would appeal to everyone at the same time with little controversy from either side.

I can't see any reason a toggle to add swastikas and make everyone white wouldn't go over well.
ViolentP
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(06-19-2017, 05:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fury451

No, you make a fair point. I think there's some campaign stuff to stir the interest level and read about history there, but multiplayer is certainly not anything I give a shit about terms of accuracy. It's not a franchise I would use to point out any kind of reality though.

Kind of reminds me how assassins creed is probably a series or you could get a ton of historical information because it's incredibly detailed and extensive, but in general I would imagine most people don't even pay attention to it. I'm usually interested in the time and subjects that the games touch on, and even I ignore it most of the time.

Agreed. I remember playing through CoD 2 on veteran and my entire experience revolved around trying to survive while mayhem occurred around me through the streets of Europe. It was an effective experience.
Volphied
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 05:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

I'm not sure why people act like it's so insane to have some expectation for staying close to the setting. What's the whole point of the scenario then?

People simply have different criteria and expectations, no need to pretend that realism or accuracy doesnt matter in any capacity at all.

Personally I don't care that they'll do this with the MP, but I can understand why others do

Multiplayer is already extremely unrealistic, and has been so for many years now in every FPS.

The fact that the lack of swastikas is what makes some people suddenly cry "unrealistic" is hilariously suspicious.
Ushojax
Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
(06-19-2017, 05:40 PM)
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I think the Nazi-sympathising section of the gaming audience is probably in their minds as well. Anything that takes their Nazi fantasies away is a good thing.
nbraun80
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(06-19-2017, 05:41 PM)
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I usually fall on the side of authenticity, but to me their reasons make sense. SP will be more authentic, MP won't, which is fair. COD mp at this point is about fast gameplay and running around with your pink skinned guns. How much some of you lust for swastikas in mp is rather disturbing tbh. But at least you can sleep easy knowing there will be plenty of swastika player emblems for you to see.
Last edited by nbraun80; 06-19-2017 at 05:49 PM.
KAOz
Short bus special
(06-19-2017, 05:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by RRockman

What self respecting black man would fight for the Axis willingly?

I mean it's fine to have, but it just feels weird.

Quite alot of Africans volunteered to be part of the German Army during WW2. Specifically in the African Campaign of course.

The German army had a very diverse set of people. From Africans, to practicing muslims from all over the world, and Indians.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
(06-19-2017, 05:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deckard Chapel

I keep hearing people say that, regarding "taste" and Nazi iconography. Nazi iconography and World War II itself actually happened - censoring it in multiplayer [a global conflict] is kind of ironic, since World War II itself was a global conflict.

Why should Nazi iconography have to be censored, when it actually happened historically?

Because nothing about call of duty multiplayer is even REMOTELY historic....

Originally Posted by Volphied

Multiplayer is already extremely unrealistic, and has been so for many years now in every FPS.

The fact that the lack of swastikas is what makes some people suddenly cry "unrealistic" is hilariously suspicious.

This, for all of the shit that comprises CoD multiplayer, the lack of swastikas is somehow the place where people draw the line on historical accuracy. What? One of the killstreaks, is literally magically disabling all enemy killstreaks:

Flak Guns — Destroy all enemy Scorestreaks and block enemies from using new ones.

^
This is in the MP but suddenly people trying to pretend that swastikas will make COD MP historically accurate lol
Last edited by Crossing Eden; 06-19-2017 at 05:48 PM.
NeoMetallix
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(06-19-2017, 05:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by ROUGE_BLOCK

What? Thats half assed. If youre going to make a WWII game especially years after the last one in the series use the full iconography in all parts of the game. No ifs and or buts, if prior titles in the series were unrelenting theres absolutely no reason we should censor certain parts of the game especially the one that is played by the most players. Show the atrocities of the Nazis and every damn perversion that came with it, including hiw they bastardized the swastikas and made it a symbol for their hatred.

Wolfenstein is comedic take on the results of the war and they are holding absolutely nothing back in the iconography part.

You have to understand that since WAW came out society has gotten a lot more intolerant in the name of tolerance. Rofl
Spaced Harrier
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(06-19-2017, 05:44 PM)
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Good god this medium is moronic at times.
Volphied
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(06-19-2017, 05:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ushojax

I think the Nazi-sympathising section of the gaming audience is probably in their minds as well. Anything that takes their Nazi fantasies away is a good thing.

^^^This. The reason why there's no swastikas in MP is because of edgy kids who would constantly role-play as nazis.

Right now the alt-right kiddies on 4chan are the most pissed off about this.
Last edited by Volphied; 06-19-2017 at 05:48 PM.
Kinyou
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(06-19-2017, 05:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volphied

Multiplayer is already extremely unrealistic, and has been so for many years now in every FPS.

The fact that the lack of swastikas is what makes some people suddenly cry "unrealistic" is hilariously suspicious.

It has not been unrealistic when it comes to imagery. The soldiers look like the soldiers who fought back then etc. Some people simply care more anout one than the other.
RecRoulette
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(06-19-2017, 05:46 PM)
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I honestly haven't paid attention to what "side" I was on in CoD Multiplayer since Modern Warfare 2.

Winning the game and having the Soviet anthem play was pretty amusing.
Joezie
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(06-19-2017, 05:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ushojax

I think the Nazi-sympathising section of the gaming audience is probably in their minds as well.

This has been my experience. Not so much on GAF(though a few posts in this thread unsettle me), but on Reddit/Steam ect...Wehraboos have been coming out of the woodwork recently with their usual "BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME" rhetoric and their clean Wehrmacht myths in force as they run amok demanding their "historical accuracy" and Nazi campaigns..

Some people are even bitching about not being to play as a Nazi in a fucking Wolfenstein game of all things.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
(06-19-2017, 05:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by NeoMetallix

You have to understand that since WAW came out society has gotten a lot more intolerant in the name of tolerance. Rofl

Consider what society has become intolerant of and also why. Hint hint,
Nazism isn't something that's ever been tolerated since WW2....
Volphied
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 05:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

It has not been unrealistic when it comes to imagery. The soldiers look like the soldiers who fought back then etc. Some people simply care more anout one than the other.

Uh, no. The soldiers look like Hollywood actors.
CaptainSmirnov
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(06-19-2017, 05:53 PM)
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As someone who's family was directly affected by WWII, I think it's pretty ridiculous they are censoring it for MP, but I suppose I am understanding why, you can say the problem is that they have to censor in the first place (some people will promote nazism and take everything too far)
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
(06-19-2017, 05:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

It has not been unrealistic when it comes to imagery. The soldiers look like the soldiers who fought back then etc. Some people simply care more anout one than the other.

Lol.
Eidan
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(06-19-2017, 05:55 PM)
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Smart decision on Activision's part.

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