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Kinyou
Member
(06-19-2017, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volphied

Uh, no. The soldiers look like Hollywood actors.

Uh, no. They look like people dressed as soldiers.

Originally Posted by Crossing Eden

Lol.

I guess that emphasizes how different this is from Call of duty 2
GasProblem
Member
(06-19-2017, 06:55 PM)
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To be honest, in games like of Day of Defeat, I always felt kind of bad playing as an Axis sniper picking off Allied forces running op the beach. It's just a game, but still. I've been to Point du Hoc, Omaha Beach, the American Memorial, Dead Mans Corner etc. during a holiday in Normandy. Saw the shit that happened. My grandfather had to do forced labor in Germany.

I'm happy the multiplayer part isn't that serious.
Volphied
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by CaptainSmirnov

As someone who's family was directly affected by WWII, I think it's pretty ridiculous they are censoring it for MP, but I suppose I am understanding why, you can say the problem is that they have to censor in the first place (some people will promote nazism and take everything too far)

As someone who lives in a country that was directly affected by nazi occupation, I'm absolutely fine with them removing it from the ridiculous multiplayer, while keeping it in the much more serious singleplayer.
Cynn
Member
(06-19-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

I imagine they did this so they can promote their esport events more easily. Might have been a bit awkward when their tv spots feature nazi symbols.

You nailed it.
HiiiLife
Member
(06-19-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Crossing Eden

Lol.

Goddammit lol
CaptainSmirnov
Member
(06-19-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volphied

As someone who lives in a country that was directly affected by nazi occupation, I'm absolutely fine with them removing it from the ridiculous multiplayer, while keeping it in the much more serious singleplayer.

I can agree on that


Especially if that image above my post is real
Iztli
Member
(06-19-2017, 06:57 PM)
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I'll post this here since my thread was shutdown because it came off like I was arguing in favor for playing as nazis... thats my fault for not being clear on where I stand. Still, this is something that has been my mind with the recent controversies of Wolfenstein and this game.

With the recent rise of neo nazis and hatred of Feminism. I've noticed that any game which doesn't let you control/play as Nazis and games like Wolfenstein where you kill Nazis, are being bombarded with negativity. I believe the reason developers are doing this is to take away the option for these people to feel validated and prideful while playing as Nazis.

In an E3 interview with Eurogamer, Sledgehammer Games co-founder Michael Condrey said --

"In campaign, we need to balance the authenticity with the respect for the fact 100 million people died in the darkest days of humanity. So, you will see the swastika in the campaign, using our military historian to make sure it's authentic, tasteful and respectful.

"But in our global community of multiplayer and zombies players, we've chosen deliberately not to include that. We want the community to play together. We want to be respectful of local customs and laws around the world. And frankly it's a dark symbol with a lot of emotion behind it we don't feel matches our multiplayer experience."

To those on the extreme right and neo nazis they see this has SWJ trash. They don't care about the meaning behind the swastika. They only care about being able to control these characters. The political climate is different at the present compared to what it was when COD 1 and 2 released, we have to acknowledge the fact that the extreme right has more power and has gained traction. We have the take that into account and realize that developers have also factored that into their gameplay designs. Remember, the singleplayer campaign is going to be historically accurate but that is not the issue... the issue is that you cant play as Nazis. For that I commend the developers for not giving them a playground where they can jubilate.
Volphied
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 06:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

Uh, no. They look like people dressed as soldiers.

So do cosplayers.

Still unrealistic.
Nepenthe
Member
(06-19-2017, 06:57 PM)
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They know their audience and are not about to help promote an environment where shitheads can make an even more hostile online environment for minorities.

Good on them for placing the play environment above "historical accuracy."
Kinyou
Member
(06-19-2017, 06:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volphied

So do cosplayers.

Still unrealistic.

Where exactly do you define a soldier looking realistic or not?
badcrumble
Member
(06-19-2017, 06:59 PM)
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some publisher should someday do this but also make all female multiplayer characters a sort of overpowered assassin class
Aizen.S.Kennedy
Banned
(06-19-2017, 06:59 PM)

Originally Posted by Kinyou

Where exactly do you define a soldier looking realistic or not?

Where do you?
pastrami
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:00 PM)
This seems like a reasonable compromise, but I'm not shocked that people are still pushing back against this. After BF1, I can't take realism arguments seriously.
Kinyou
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aizen.S.Kennedy

Where do you?

Accurate outfits, helmets, gear. Probably some tear and wear.
I find it fair to say that Call of duty 2 had realistic looking soldiers

I mean, is it really such an outrageous claim that Call off duty used to have accurate inagery in the MP? Like I already said, i dont even care for it, but I can see that others would.
AYF 001
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by NeoMetallix

You have to understand that since WAW came out society has gotten a lot more intolerant in the name of tolerance. Rofl

Clever, but not that clever:

Originally Posted by Karl Popper

Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.

As for the thread topic, if there's a choice that'll simultaneously work towards inclusion of women and PoC in a country with deep race issues and a subculture full of sexism, while also upsetting adolescent white supremacists on the internet, I say go for it.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
(06-19-2017, 07:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

Uh, no. They look like people dressed as soldiers.


I guess that emphasizes how different this is from Call of duty 2

Even with the color COD uses standard hollywood stylization when it comes to the costume design. The only thing they nail is weapon design and even those have unrealistic amounts of ammo and reload times for the sake of game balance.

Originally Posted by HiiiLife

Goddammit lol

Someone photoshop a swastika so that it can now be deemed realistic™
nbraun80
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

Where exactly do you define a soldier looking realistic or not?

What are you trying to prove at this point exactly? They've already shown multiple images of current COD games where your character is just a dress up doll got whatever silly fashion you unlock.
Volphied
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 07:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

Accurate outfits, helmets, gear. Probably some tear and wear.
I find it fair to say that Call of duty 2 had realistic looking soldiers

And you know this because you studied WW2 history extensively and went through thousands of documents and photographs to be sure.

Or maybe you know only pop history and thus you have only a "feeling" that the soldiers shown are accurate.
Kinyou
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by nbraun80

What are you trying to prove at this point exactly? They've already shown multiple images of current COD games where your character is just a dress up doll got whatever silly fashion you unlock.

Merely this point

I mean, is it really such an outrageous claim that Call off duty used to have accurate inagery in the MP? Like I already said, i dont even care for it, but I can see that others would.


Originally Posted by Volphied

And you know this because you studied history extensively and went through thousands of documents and photographs to be sure.

Or maybe you know only pop history and thus you have only a "feeling" that the soldiers shown are accurate.

And that's reason enough to throw all realism out of the window and have them run around in pink ghillie suits?
jedivulcan
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:06 PM)
It's a form of censorship and revisionist history. If certain countries outright ban Nazi imagery, devs could easily replace or discard the Nazi insignia.

It's a grey area because as a developer, they want to attract a wide audience but it seems odd given the material they are working with.

I see it as a work of fiction but people interpret it many different ways. Take, for example, an 60s Trek episode that was skipped in parts of Europe because of fears Neo-Nazism.




I understand the rationale. Isn't a big deal.
Volphied
Junior Member
(06-19-2017, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke


muh realism

These are realistic soldiers because they're wearing realistic clothes and wielding realistic weapons.
Kalentan
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:07 PM)
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As I posted in the other thread.

Another reason they're doing this (in extension to the quote Iztil posted), is also probably because of the youtube community.

I know some may scorn at that or be angry but I know some YouTubers when covering the initial reveal of WW2 got flagged by YouTube for their videos containing Swastikas. If you want popular YouTubers to cover your multiplayer to get more people interested but then are getting flagged by YouTube and thus unable to monetize their videos, they're probably going to be less likely to cover it. Less coverage = possible loss of sales.
nbraun80
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

Merely this point




And that's reason enough to throw all realism out of the window and have them run around in pink ghillie suits?

It hasn't been like that in nearly 10 years man. They aren't about to stop selling COD points to unlock funky gear for the sake of multiplayer ww2 realism, that ship has sailed.
Catphish
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:08 PM)
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I was actually thinking about this the other day, wondering how they'd deal with it.

I can see the case for authenticity, but I can also see the case for not wanting to be forced to represent the swastika when playing multiplayer. The thought I had was exactly how it appears to have been handled here. Swastikas in campaign, and something else, like an Iron Cross, for multiplayer.

Good job reading my mind. :)
Kinyou
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volphied

These are realistic soldiers because they're wearing realistic clothes and wielding realistic weapons.

I'm talking about realistic looking soldiers, not their actions, but I can see that you're not interested in a discussion and just want to get in some cheap shots
Daffy Duck
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cake Boss

I always go to Call of Duty multiplayer for realism and history accuracy fix.



I'm not sure what history you are referring to in a futuristic game.

Silly example
Hado
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:13 PM)
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I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side

There were no women in the Wehrmacht.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
(06-19-2017, 07:13 PM)

Originally Posted by Previous

I think this is a poor design decision. If you don't want to see swastikas, why are you playing a WW2 game?

.

Originally Posted by Cake Boss

If you want realism and history then why are you playing a video game?

By your logic, why watch a historically accurate movie then? If you like the history and the intrigue of WWII, you'll want to play a game or watch a movie about it and if the developer/director is constantly touting "historical accuracy", you kind of expect it to be just that.

Originally Posted by Ushojax

I think the Nazi-sympathising section of the gaming audience is probably in their minds as well. Anything that takes their Nazi fantasies away is a good thing.

I'm in no way, shape, form or fashion a Nazi sympathizer. I am however, someone that enjoys history and to have any aspect of it censored - especially related to the greatest global conflict ever - is off-putting and disturbing.
benicillin
Banned
(06-19-2017, 07:14 PM)

Originally Posted by Hado

I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side

Because women play video games too.
nbraun80
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

I'm not sure what history you are referring to in a futuristic game.

Silly example

Point is they have tapped into a market of selling loot crates to unlock silly gear and emotes, they aren't about to get off that gravy train to protect COD multiplayer 'realism'
Hado
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by benicillin

Because women play video games too.

So what? They can't play a male soldier in a world war two themed game? Where women were pretty much absent from the battlefield.
ArkkAngel007
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hado

I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side

It's a multiplayer game providing options for it's base of players, a sizable amount being women. It's not like we're talking of the campaign.

Is it really that offensive?

Zombies, duel wielding, respawning, drone marking, and whatever inaccuracies are fine, but women is where we apparently draw the line in our multiplayer.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
(06-19-2017, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hado

I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side

Because women play video games too. And if we're gonna tolerate magical UAVs in WW2 that reveal the position of the enemy that are activated via killstreaks then by god seeing a woman shouldn't be the thing breaking your immersion.
Hado
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Crossing Eden

Because women play video games too. And if we're gonna tolerate magical UAVs in WW2 that reveal the position of the enemy that are activated via killstreaks then by god seeing a woman shouldn't be the thing breaking your immersion.

Yeah I totally get that. However nowadays it just feels forced to have a woman/woman lead in almost every game or movie.

What's gonna be the next hollywood/marketing trend in 5 years? I wouldn't be talking about this if my girlfriend wouldn't complain about it every time.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Smart move, really stoked for this. The last thing we need in CoD is some asshole running around with swastika everything yelling out slurs or being forced to be a Nazi gunning people down.
nbraun80
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hado

So what? They can't play a male soldier in a world war two themed game? Where women were pretty much absent from the battlefield.

Again COD MP hasn't been about realism for some time now, it's about customizing your character with any silly colored gear and emotes you want.
mavo
Banned
(06-19-2017, 07:18 PM)
So, you are able to play as a Nazi just without Swastikas kinda like trying to block the sun with a finger, it won't stop idiots from feeling "empowered", also what do they mean with "removed swastikas" did German soldiers wear giant swastikas on their uniform or something, like i feel this is something people wouldn't even have realized if they didn't make a comment.

And i like that you will see black people on the Axis just because there will be idiots that will be upset.
Iztli
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hado

I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side

There were no women in the Wehrmacht.

Why wouldn't there be women in a multiplayer game where women play as well? Sledgehammer already said that the campaign is where you can get your fix for historical accuracy. That the mp is basically a playground where everyone is welcomed. Games are finally including a large sector that have been ignored for a long time. We should be happy and not mad at this.
Nepenthe
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hado

I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side

There were no women in the Wehrmacht.

"I...I can't imagine being.... WELCOMING to people who aren't men.... Aren't we the only ones who play games?!"
ViolentP
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(06-19-2017, 07:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nepenthe

"I...I can't imagine being.... WELCOMING to people who aren't men.... Aren't we the only ones who play games?!"

There were plenty of African American soldiers in WWII, however.
Reebot
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:21 PM)
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I'm strongly pro-inclusion, but strongly against cleansing the Nazi image.

My suggestion: all players, from their perspective, play for the Allies. Think America's Army; the enemy always plays the Axis. Players can now customize their avatars and represent a spectrum of humanity without burying the racially coded violence and slaughter perpetrated by the Nazis.

Racial and gender diversity fit great into an escapist WW II shooter. Just not on the Axis side.
Napalm_Frank
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Jazzed to play as a black female nazi at Stalingrad.
pastrami
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:21 PM)

Originally Posted by ViolentP

There were plenty of African American soldiers in WWII, however.

But if they are on the US side, they need to be segregated on their own servers.
ArkkAngel007
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hado

Yeah I totally get that. However nowadays it just feels forced to have a woman/woman lead in almost every game or movie.

What's gonna be the next hollywood/marketing trend in 5 years? I wouldn't be talking about this if my girlfriend wouldn't complain about it every time.

1. This is multiplayer as an option, not some "forced" lead in a narrative.

2. Imagine how women and minority groups must feel about all those forced white male protagonists
Yaphett Kotto
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Crying for Nazi symbols and questioning why we have women soldiers in the game. Smh
Nepenthe
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by ViolentP

There were plenty of African American soldiers in WWII, however.

True, but considering the kind of "historical accuracy" people ask for in video games, you probably would never know that.

I also edited my post not to assume the poster's race. Even men who are racial minorities can be weirdly sexist.

Originally Posted by Yaphett Kotto

Crying for Nazi symbols and questioning why we have women soldiers in the game. Smh

But watch the fervor when you claim gaming culture has a problem with simply not being a shithole.
NoMoreTrolls
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:22 PM)
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God I want a dab or hotline bling emote. Please make it happen SH.
Uncharted 4 taunts when?
Kolibri
Banned
(06-19-2017, 07:24 PM)
None of my female friends even like using female characters in games, which I find interesting.

I usually play as female for escapism because I'm a guy in real life. So I guess they are basically doing the same.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
(06-19-2017, 07:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volphied

Multiplayer is already extremely unrealistic, and has been so for many years now in every FPS.

The fact that the lack of swastikas is what makes some people suddenly cry "unrealistic" is hilariously suspicious.

Realism isn't the issue. It's the 2017 equivalent of "blood is now sweat." It's "find a stranger in the Alps."
ShiroAmakusa
Member
(06-19-2017, 07:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by RRockman

What self respecting black man would fight for the Axis willingly?

I mean it's fine to have, but it just feels weird.

These days hopefully no one would but back then? Nazi Germany's army employed people of various colour as well as religious beliefs like the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS or the Free Arabian Legion.

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