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Falk
that puzzling face
(06-19-2017, 09:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by James Scott

He's a composer

It does get a little more nuanced than that since he made Ancient specifically to handle the Master System/GG versions of Sonic, and they still dabble in development from time to time, (a fact cleverly concealed in the linked article, which is a great read btw) so technically he's also a dev, but yeah, didn't have much to do with EO past music.

Originally Posted by Ganondorfo

At least Nintendo still make amazing games. You havent made awesome music since the Actraiser days. Etrian Odyssey music is good, but you are not anymore on your Streets of Rage level.

Harsh
entremet
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aostia

So no EO switch version?

Not his call. He's only the composer not the dev/publisher.
Lylo
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:28 PM)
Nintendo has no reasons to rush the 3DS retirement, they are not going to say that the Switch is a successor to the 3DS until the day the 3DS is officially dead. It's up to the developers believe Nintendo words or not. I guess Yuzo believes...
tuffy
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aostia

So no EO switch version?

He's not an EO developer, so that's up to Atlus. With the 3DS winding down and dual screen gaming along with it, where the series goes next is uncertain.
Skittzo0413
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:28 PM)
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This really does seem like him taking Nintendo's statements about it not replacing the 3DS at face value. I mean, they also said it wouldn't be replacing the Wii U but that's dead now. The real difference between the Wii U and 3DS is the massive userbase and library the 3DS has.

They have talked far too extensively about combining everything under a single platform for the Switch not to be their sole future platform going forward. The Pokemon announcement at E3 just underscored that fact.
AtomicShroom
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by badcrumble

I realize that (as Koshiro mentions) Nintendo says the Switch is not a replacement for the 3DS

Anyone who believes that is a grade A fool.
James Scott
Banned
(06-19-2017, 09:30 PM)

it could become a replacement for the 3DS ... but, of course, Nintendo has said themselves that that is not what they're planning to do.

This is something I hear cited a lot.
It's a difficult decision, but I see why Nintendo made it.
It's really not either, but they have a home console that was on its way out way before the system was even announced and a handheld that had a YoY growth.
Better to say "new home console, please keep buying 3DSs".
It is basically both, a good handheld and a decent console thanks to the docked mode offering things they couldn't previously in the past (multiplayer on the go on one device/local multiplayer when you buy a portable console and a home console you can take with you).

They're seemingly moving handheld only franchises over to Switch like mainline Pokemon which have never been on home consoles even when they were massive successes. They just have a couple title that were in the works for 3DS they'll put out in the meantime.
The Lamp
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:30 PM)
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His comment confuses me. I find a lot of novelty in what Switch offers and why it exists separately to the 3DS. As I mentioned, I took it to the gym yesterday, propped the screen up on a stairmaster, and played Mario Kart with wireless joycons in each hand to get 30 minutes of high intensity cardio in, effortlessly. It has changed my life. I couldn't do this with the 3DS for example. I have an instant 2P multiplayer arcade cabinet wherever I go, as well. The Switch is extremely novel.
Spirited
Mine is pretty and pink
(06-19-2017, 09:30 PM)
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I don't really see why their new console has to be "adventurous", it just needs to be somethign that can internally unify their two consoles as to not spread themselves too thin.

Personally I think it's a very neat device that I mostly play in handheld mode and it works out fine, it's not much bigger than a N3DSXL so I don't get how it's a problem to have it handheld.
NotLiquid
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:30 PM)

Originally Posted by WonderzL

About Switch not being a successor to 3DS:

Recent Nintendo 3DS games/announcements:

Pokémon Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon - enhanced version of a pre-existing game
Metroid - MercurySteam
Hey! Pikmin - Arzest
Ever Oasis - Grezzo
Sushi Striker - indieszero
Fire Emblem Echoes - last Fire Emblem game for 3DS
Atlus games - all DS ports
Kirby Clash Deluxe and the 3D one - eshop games
Dragon Quest 7 and 8 - late localizations
BYE-BYE BOXBOY - eShop
Tank Troopers - eShop
Yoshi - port
Mario Maker - port
Culdcept Revolt- late localization
Yo-kai Watch Physic Specters - late localization
Fire Emblem Warriors - cross w/ Switch
Mario & Luigi - remake
Monster Hunter Stories - late localization

So yeah, no big projects (Miitopia is the only game I didn't mention). People should really expect either a 3DS successor or they fully investing on Switch.

Game Freak announced that the next mainline Pokémon game is going to be on the Switch. For all intents and purposes, much like how Nintendo kept claiming the DS wasn't replacing Game Boy, the Switch is the 3DS successor. They just have no reason to stop supporting the 3DS, and in Japan especially it takes a good year or so until developers start winding down on current consoles that are still selling in order to look forward. People aren't going to abandon their 3DSes instantly just cause the Switch exists, just like no one was going to instantly abandon the PS3 and PSP for the PS4 and PSV.

I'd expect a lot of games announced in 2018 that would be "3DS franchises" to start getting simultaneous Switch ports, and by 2019-2020 I'd expect most of the companies who did work on 3DS to be fully focused on Switch. The advantage of the console is that you don't need a big budgeted title to be able to exist on the console. It's just as much of a home for portable experiences as it is console ones.
10k
Banned
(06-19-2017, 09:31 PM)

Originally Posted by Bronetta

Explain to the rest of us in detail what differentiates a "true portable" from a "fake portable"? I'm baffled this stuff still comes up

I have no idea. Ask Koshiro. It seems to him a true portable is cheap and small like the 3DS. Switch isn't one because it's big, heavy (lol) and expensive.
mobilesworking
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Platy

The Switch IS a replacement for the 3DS.

No Company will say "stop buying this it is dead" unless people are already not buying it.

Their mouths say the 3DS is alive but their heart say "mainline pokemon for switch" which means 3DS is in it's dying bed

I think it's more correct to say the Switch is an eventual, even inevitable replacement for 3DS, but that isn't the case today and it won't be the case until next year at the earliest.
Hero
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oregano

I think we can lay that idea to rest now. Pokémon would have been the IP to sell a separate handheld with but that's confirmed for Switch. That one sentence from Ishihara cemented Switch's place IMO.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by WonderzL

Yeah, that's what I believe too

Nintendo has already acknowledged that supporting two platforms is hard because people expect a Mario Kart on the console plus a Mario Kart on the handheld, for most of their franchises. Now with one system to support they can ensure a steady release of games.
g11
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:31 PM)
I am a bit curious how the Switch will fair in Japan in the long run. Currently I understand it's sold out but that seems to happen to nearly every gadget in Japan. It does seem a little too big to replace the 3DS as a portable system and that seems to be the only thing that sells over there anymore.

I think he's got a valid point. It seems too big to be an everyday carry portable and weak for a home console (obviously Nintendo will use their sorcery to make solid games, but 3rd parties...)

Even then, I want one, and it seems like a lot of people do, so maybe it's not so crazy.
Calm Mind
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ganondorfo

At least Nintendo still make amazing games. You havent made awesome music since the Actraiser days. Etrian Odyssey music is good, but you are not anymore on your Streets of Rage level.

Where is the lie? And I say this as someone who follows him on Twitter.
nekomix
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:31 PM)
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I didn't know it was that hard to understand that Nintendo can't put something from the Switch family at the same price and same form factor as 3DS right now and that's why they keep alive the 3DS for the moment. You have money and want to invest in the future ? Switch. You want a cheap entry to Nintendo games ? 3DS. This is not rocket science.
They will stop supporting 3DS when they can propose a cheaper device in the Switch family or see that the 3DS is finally dying by itself. People already forgot how they quickly killed Wii and DS with much bigger install bases and how it hurt them in 2011-2012 financially. Many forgot but not Nintendo's bank account.
WonderzL
Banned
(06-19-2017, 09:32 PM)

Originally Posted by Spirited

I don't really see why their new console has to be "adventurous", it just needs to be somethign that can internally unify their two consoles as to not spread themselves too thin. Personally I think it's a very neat device that I mostly play in handheld mode and it works out fine, it's not much bigger than a N3DSXL.

I think to some people Nintendo has put themselves in a position of making "crazy new avant-garde" novelties since the DS so a console with a simple and effective use like Switch doesn't lit a fire to them.
JetSetRadio
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:32 PM)
It has MK8D, rest is shite.
Nanashrew
Banned
(06-19-2017, 09:32 PM)
Anyone wondering about the 3DS, I think they're keeping the 3DS around in similar fashion to how Sony keeps their previous console around. They'll still see 3DS releases, albeit, smaller titles. I can also see them keeping the 3DS around to weather the storm of the Switch stock situation as well.

Switch is definitely set to be 3DS's replacement as we're seeing it's getting a mainline Pokemon.
BluePigGanon
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:33 PM)
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I mean like: why does anything exist, dude? *takes hit*

Seriously though I SORTA get what he's saying. I want a Switch bad but am also a little confused about what niche it'll ultimately occupy. I wonder if we'll see it diverge: a lighter version to work more as a handheld, and a beefed up docked version that is a little more brawny.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
(06-19-2017, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by 10k

I have no idea. Ask Koshiro. It seems to him a true portable is cheap and small like the 3DS. Switch isn't one because it's big, heavy (lol) and expensive.

If thats the barometer people like him use to justify not calling the Switch a handheld then technically, the DS wasn't portable either because it was bigger and more expensive than the GBA.
cw_sasuke
If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
(06-19-2017, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shifty1897

I mean, this has been said before, but that whole line about 3DS existing alongside the Switch... they said that about the DS when the GBA was already out. As Switch hardware increases it's number of units sold and becomes cheaper to manufacture, they will start pulling more and more resources from supporting the 3DS and put it onto the Switch.

Switch hopefully will have ~20-30 million units sold by the end of 2018, and that's the time to focus development exclusively for it.

DS was only a bit more expensive that the GBA and could play GBA games. Switch is much more expensive that the cheapest 2DS/3DS and can't play any of those games.

I don't know why people bring up this comparison when the situations aren't similar. There is no reason for them to kill of the 3DS until the can sell a Switch for sub 200 and target that market.
Skittzo0413
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by mobilesworking

I think it's more correct to say the Switch is an eventual, even inevitable replacement for 3DS, but that isn't the case today and it won't be the case until next year at the earliest.

Yeah that's a good way to put it.

Originally Posted by g11

I am a bit curious how the Switch will fair in Japan in the long run. Currently I understand it's sold out but that seems to happen to nearly every gadget in Japan. It does seem a little too big to replace the 3DS as a portable system and that seems to be the only thing that sells over there anymore.

I think he's got a valid point. It seems too big to be an everyday carry portable and weak for a home console (obviously Nintendo will use their sorcery to make solid games, but 3rd parties...)

Even then, I want one, and it seems like a lot of people do, so maybe it's not so crazy.

It's doing extremely well in Japan. Depending on the stock situation it might surpass the 3DS's first year somewhat soon, but it's already tracking way better than the Wii U and PS4. Even with the severely limited stock. It's also really not too big to carry around like a portable. Very few people commute without a bag, and it will pretty much fit into any sized bag for you to take along with you. It's far smaller in person than it appears in videos.
James Scott
Banned
(06-19-2017, 09:35 PM)

Originally Posted by g11

I am a bit curious how the Switch will fair in Japan in the long run. Currently I understand it's sold out but that seems to happen to nearly every gadget in Japan. It does seem a little too big to replace the 3DS as a portable system and that seems to be the only thing that sells over there anymore.

I think he's got a valid point. It seems too big to be an everyday carry portable and weak for a home console (obviously Nintendo will use their sorcery to make solid games, but 3rd parties...)

Even then, I want one, and it seems like a lot of people do, so maybe it's not so crazy.

It's really not much bigger than the popular 3DS models, I feel. Makes up for it in comfort and control as well as graphical power as well.
I guess we'll see. They can likely make different form factors to suit demand, but it's probably not necessary for awhile

Originally Posted by Ganondorfo

At least Nintendo still make amazing games. You havent made awesome music since the Actraiser days. Etrian Odyssey music is good, but you are not anymore on your Streets of Rage level.

Not sure we need to go "hey, you suck" to argue a point.
Fancolors
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:36 PM)
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Oh wow, I had no idea Ancient only had 8 employees including himself
Danneee
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:37 PM)
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I guess a lot of smaller developers will have a hard time adjusting to the Switch with higher productions costs.
Intel_89
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:38 PM)
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I love his work and I think he's entitled to have his own opinion, I'll read the full interview as soon as I'm able to.

Originally Posted by Ganondorfo

At least Nintendo still make amazing games. You havent made awesome music since the Actraiser days. Etrian Odyssey music is good, but you are not anymore on your Streets of Rage level.

lol harsh.
Oregano
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by g11

I am a bit curious how the Switch will fair in Japan in the long run. Currently I understand it's sold out but that seems to happen to nearly every gadget in Japan. It does seem a little too big to replace the 3DS as a portable system and that seems to be the only thing that sells over there anymore.

I think he's got a valid point. It seems too big to be an everyday carry portable and weak for a home console (obviously Nintendo will use their sorcery to make solid games, but 3rd parties...)

Even then, I want one, and it seems like a lot of people do, so maybe it's not so crazy.

That's not completely true. Switch is supply constrained but is leaving less successful consoles in its dust:



There's a good chance it overtakes 3DS for at least a while following Splatoon 2 as well.
chrominance
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by GrantDaNasty

Nintendo should twilight the 3DS if the Switch is supposed to be the true successor to both the home-console and handheld generations of the past.

While I think in some sense this is true, it also exposes what Koshiro is trying to get at: as a successor to the 3DS, the Switch is... not. It's certainly portable, yes, but in the same way a tablet is portable versus a phone. One is a device you can play in pretty much any situation; the other is something you can carry with you but can't necessarily be played everywhere. I cannot imagine playing a Switch on public transit unless you get a seat or have a certain amount of space to stand in and lean against something for stability; a 3DS is playable standing up while holding on to a handrail or strap, though only barely. A 3DS can be thrown in the bag or a large pants pocket without much worry (something it has as an advantage over even the Vita). A Switch basically requires a case.

I think ultimately Nintendo would be better served going all-in on the Switch ecosystem, but that doesn't have to preclude the possibility of un-Switch-like form factors. Koshiro doesn't seem to think this is an option, given Nintendo's stance, and I think that means the system occupies a weird space for Koshiro. It's not the obvious handheld device the 3DS is.

I don't see Koshiro commenting on the financial or critical success of the Switch at all; I don't think he's saying it'll never replace the 3DS because it isn't going to succeed.
Celine
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:44 PM)
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The convenience to play anywhere, anytime with anyone is Switch novelty.
Yeah it has 3D rumble as a some kind of novelty but in reality its biggest appeal is its accessibility.
Nachos
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(06-19-2017, 09:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by MLH

Wow I didn't know he was the president of Ancient (never really thought about who they are other than the Protect Me Knight devs - can't say I've played many of their developed games), seems like he created it initially to make a contract with SEGA.

It's basically a family business. The company was started by Koshiro's mom, while his sister also works there, doing character and graphic design.
chronic_archaic
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(06-19-2017, 09:45 PM)
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I mean, it is sort of in a position similar to the Saturn only this time the 3DS is popular everywhere. It tries to fill a console and handheld role but they already have a handheld that is still selling and getting major support. It is kinda weird the Switch is already a thing. At least I'm not sure marketing it as a handheld is such a good idea right now.
g11
Member
(06-19-2017, 09:45 PM)

Originally Posted by Skittzo0413

It's doing extremely well in Japan. Depending on the stock situation it might surpass the 3DS's first year somewhat soon, but it's already tracking way better than the Wii U and PS4. Even with the severely limited stock. It's also really not too big to carry around like a portable. Very few people commute without a bag, and it will pretty much fit into any sized bag for you to take along with you. It's far smaller in person than it appears in videos.

I've held a friend's. It still seemed a little big to me but then again I don't carry a bag everywhere so maybe that's why. Kind of scary that even the PS4 has so little traction over there when so many great Japanese devs only make console games still (FromSoft, Platinum, Kojima, probably half a dozen more).

EDIT: Also I probably should have specified on the "everything sells out in Japan" as specifically at launch. At least that's how it seems. I knew PS4 wasn't doing so hot over there (although supposedly PSVR keeps selling out over there too).
Celine
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(06-19-2017, 09:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by g11

I am a bit curious how the Switch will fair in Japan in the long run. Currently I understand it's sold out but that seems to happen to nearly every gadget in Japan. It does seem a little too big to replace the 3DS as a portable system and that seems to be the only thing that sells over there anymore.

I think he's got a valid point. It seems too big to be an everyday carry portable and weak for a home console (obviously Nintendo will use their sorcery to make solid games, but 3rd parties...)

Even then, I want one, and it seems like a lot of people do, so maybe it's not so crazy.

The last console which was sold out months after release in Japan was the Wii in 2007.
This was due to weak demand for the new consoles (PSV, PS4, WiiU) or availability of enough stocks to meet demand early on (3DS which had to receive a big price cut 5 months in to sky rocket).
The japanese market for dedicated videogame ain't pretty, if Switch doesn't take off it will be really rough.
Spirited
Mine is pretty and pink
(06-19-2017, 09:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by chronic_archaic

I mean, it is sort of in a position similar to the Saturn only this time the 3DS is popular everywhere. It tries to fill a console and handheld role but they already have a handheld that is still selling and getting major support. It is kinda weird the Switch is already a thing. At least I'm not sure marketing it as a handheld is such a good idea right now.

The 3DS is 6 years old, it's really not that weird that nintendo is releasing something to follow it up with.
starmud
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(06-19-2017, 09:48 PM)
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We've been seeing some spoiler feelings about switch from developers who did well on the 3DS. Some of them don't seem to know how to adapt their DS franchise to a one screen environment...
DocSeuss
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(06-19-2017, 09:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shifty1897

I mean, this has been said before, but that whole line about 3DS existing alongside the Switch... they said that about the DS when the GBA was already out. As Switch hardware increases it's number of units sold and becomes cheaper to manufacture, they will start pulling more and more resources from supporting the 3DS and put it onto the Switch.

Switch hopefully will have ~20-30 million units sold by the end of 2018, and that's the time to focus development exclusively for it.

Right, but the key here is that the Switch, as it is, is not a great portable device. It doesn't fit in your pocket.
Duxxy3
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(06-19-2017, 09:53 PM)
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Whether we like it or not, the Switch is the replacement for the 3DS and the Wii U. Just look at which teams are developing for the Switch and which are developing for the 3DS.
ugly
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(06-19-2017, 09:54 PM)
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I feel the switch (nx) was a bold imagining but it's not taking long for Nintendo to fold back into their typical reservation and held-back approach to affairs. We'll see how it goes. A more ruthless belief in their new product would go a long way if they could stay in that bold space. Cancelling the 3ds would be a strong statement. All in Nintendo, come on
Spirited
Mine is pretty and pink
(06-19-2017, 09:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by DocSeuss

Right, but the key here is that the Switch, as it is, is not a great portable device. It doesn't fit in your pocket.

Did people really fit their 3DSXLs in their pockets, or do I just have really small pockets? Last console I used to put in my pocket was the GBA SP.

Also has the adoption rate of portables been smaller for women(compared to men) because most women's jeans and skirts wouldn't be able to fit even the smaller handhelds?
Tye The Czar
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(06-19-2017, 09:54 PM)
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This talk from Koshiro and Ancient is making me hanker for a new Gotta Protectors/Protect Me Knight for Switch.
IrishNinja
(06-19-2017, 09:55 PM)
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conceptually I can see asking this, but hands-on it's a great little system so far

also Koshiro is a legend and I hope he comes back stateside for MAG or something, I'd love to have him autograph my SOR2 vinyl
entremet
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(06-19-2017, 09:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by DocSeuss

Right, but the key here is that the Switch, as it is, is not a great portable device. It doesn't fit in your pocket.

I made the case before with the rise of phablets (is this term even used anymore lol) and tablets, that it doesn't matter. The audience has spoken, they love and prefer bigger screens. It's the new normal.
SciencePilot
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(06-19-2017, 09:57 PM)
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I still think Switch can be a replacement for 3ds. At first Nintendo didn't want to go all in on a replacement in case it bombed like the Wii U and they were left with nothing. But if it proves successful they can finally sunset the 3ds. I agree they will need a cheaper model though, if they are truly going to fill the 3ds niche.
NOLA_Gaffer
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(06-19-2017, 09:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spirited

Did people really fit their 3DSXLs in their pockets, or do I just have really small pockets? Last console I used to put in my pocket was the GBA SP.

Also has the adoption rate of portables been smaller for women(compared to men) because most women's jeans and skirts wouldn't be able to fit even the smaller handhelds?

I pocketed the original 3DS from 2011 to 2015 when I upgraded to a New Nintendo 3DS and continued to do so.

dan2026
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(06-19-2017, 09:57 PM)
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I would buy a smaller, cheaper, dockless version of the Switch in a heartbeat.
If they increase the battery life too, I'm golden.
Aostia
El Capitan Todd
(06-19-2017, 09:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by entremet

Not his call. He's only the composer not the dev/publisher.


Uh
Good to know
MutFox
Banned
(06-19-2017, 09:59 PM)
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The last year of the 3DS (Whenever that is)
Nintendo will announce a Switch Mini.
Maybe 2 years from now.
jroc74
Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
(06-19-2017, 09:59 PM)
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Dont believe Nintendo. And dont read too much into 3DS still getting games, exclusives.

This thing is the replacement for the 3DS. It basically already has replaced it.

Just not officially from Nintendo.

The purpose of them combining their development teams had to be for them doing the Switch as the main hardware for the foreseeable future.

That means eventually phasing the 3DS out. This is no different than home console still getting exclusives and cross gen games. Until Sony released Beyond 2 Souls and their other exclusives for PS4 I thought I was gonna have to get another PS3.
LordRaptor
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(06-19-2017, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by DocSeuss

Right, but the key here is that the Switch, as it is, is not a great portable device. It doesn't fit in your pocket.

Portable doesn't mean "fits in your pocket" though. It means "can easily bring with you".
Laptops are portables. iPads are portables.

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