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In Destiny 2, shaders are now one-time use. (And yes, tied to microtransactions.)

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Sullichin

Member
I'm not missing the point, I'm just one of many who don't find a problem with the way they're doing it. I prefer this than paywalls for actual content.

Also so what if they're making money? They have historically released quality products, they deserve it.

Some of you need to look into the costs of game dev and how $60 isn't nearly enough. If people were willing to cough more than that much back when they made the push, DLC/F2P/microtransactions wouldn't be as prevalent.

I'm not speaking about just Bungie, I'm talking about game dev in general.

On top of all this... the tried and true response to whenever someone whines about DLC/etc... "No one is forcing you to pay for it"

Surely you know that Destiny has both
 

Wulfram

Member
I don't find this sort of system too bad in SW:tOR, but in SW:tOR you can effectively wear 1 armour for the whole of the game if you want, and you can trade the dyes in the auction house.
 

Ryuuga

Banned
I'm not missing the point, I'm just one of many who don't find a problem with the way they're doing it. I prefer this than paywalls for actual content.

Also so what if they're making money? They have historically released quality products, they deserve it.

Some of you need to look into the costs of game dev and how $60 isn't nearly enough. If people were willing to cough up more than that much back when they made the push, DLC/F2P/microtransactions wouldn't be as prevalent.

I'm not speaking about just Bungie, I'm talking about game dev in general.

On top of all this... the tried and true response to whenever someone whines about DLC/etc... "No one is forcing you to pay for it"

edit: cue the tears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laqx3C3HA4M&t=6m07s
 
Well this sucks, I'm glad D2 has been fantastic overall, but this seems.... oddly greedy. It really is chroma taken to a whole new level. I wonder if they will start dropping boxes you can get after doing weekly activities, like the ones they started doing in year 3 of D1? I guess it may become a nothing issue if they give you lots of chances to get it from drops and not just levels (still crap considering they want people to buy it). I'm glad I'm not consumed by destiny fashion like I was Fashion Souls.
 
In D1 I used to like having a bunch of different shaders

but with the time I got so many that they became more of a burden clogging up my post office and even though they made it simpler to delete them and get it back from the collection, I stopped caring by the end

so yeah this is kinda shitty, but I dont think I care that much so they wont get a dime from me anyway

I feel the same way but knowing game developers it'll be the opposite problem now.
 

D i Z

Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but D2 has no auction house or something similar to buy those shaders through a player market, right?

The most recent personal example I can think of is guild wars 2 but pretty sure they were permanent on your character after consumption and you could switch between your shaders at any time.

That's a good point. Them being item specific puts an extreme premium on them, but not have anything banked is really fucked. Not being able to get em back from items, or even previewing them properly is lame. Ok. I'm back on the hate this train.
 

Trickster

Member
This is a distinct, negative change from D1 that Bungie kept secret until launch. That's my biggest takeaway issue here.

Well hey, at least Bungie kept a bunch of stuff secret so people could discover it and be surprised come launch day! I mean who really cares about the details anyway
 
I'm not missing the point, I'm just one of many who don't find a problem with the way they're doing it. I prefer this than paywalls for actual content.
But Destiny is already paywalled with all of its expansion content. Destiny is more paywalled than most AAA games as its DLC is necessary to progress and not as optional like multiplayer map packs or optional side story DLC you find in other games.
 

Blam

Member
True but I wasn't a huge fan of Chromas. They didn't feel unique enough.

Well I mean now they really are. Since it's better like this. I just want to be able to buy my shaders again and I'm a happy boy.

If there's a shader kiosk then fuck yes. If not then fuck.
 

vg260

Member
It's a cosmetic feature. I have a hard time caring about this, and having any sympathy for those who do. I have zero concern with what companies do with their cosmetics and how they tie them to microtransactions.

This kind of attitude is not good for games, and is a disturbing trend. I guess people don't care what sort of techniques publishers concoct to take advantage people as long as it gets those who don't care about cosmetics their free content.

You can still have cosmetic microtranscations, and have them implemented in a reasonable manner. (i.e. not consumable)

Should I not have cared about online passes just because I bought all my games new and it didn't affect me personally or should I at least be able to recognize a trend going a bit too far, and understand why it's a legit issue for many?
 

TripleBee

Member
This is going to cause much indecision if there's rare shaders. Already fearing this. Perhaps not a huge thing in the long run, but still - just thinking about some rare gold shader and whether or not to use it on my current gear is already making me sweat.
 

Niosai

Member
Glad I'm waiting on D2 for the inevitable complete edition. Hopefully this is something they backtrack on. The fact they made them consumable shows that they are actively hindering players who enjoyed the customization from D1. (Or, how can we make this thing that everyone likes cost them money?)
 

ExVicis

Member
Pick your Defense:
1) "What's the problem? They're trying to add value to loot boxes"
2) Exaggerate posts expressing disappointment to appear rational
3) "Do you even play Destiny?"
4) "Devs gotta eat"
Surprisingly I've only seen 1, 2, & 4 in here. No one has (or I missed it if it has) claimed the people annoyed at this are people who've never played Destiny.


"Big deal" or not this change is a noticeable negative change from D1 to D2. It's a far more tedious feature and it costs more money. There's no denying this.

Glad I'm waiting on D2 for the inevitable complete edition. Hopefully this is something they backtrack on. The fact they made them consumable shows that they are actively hindering players who enjoyed the customization from D1. (Or, how can we make this thing that everyone likes cost them money?)
Yeah I'm starting to feel the same is going to be true for me. Playing the Demo made me really want to lean towards a preorder but every single one of these little things just inches me to the position of "Alright let's just wait for a complete edition and hopefully half this shit will be gone"
 

Gator86

Member
Well hey, at least Bungie kept a bunch of stuff secret so people could discover it and be surprised come launch day! I mean who really cares about the details anyway

This shit is absolutely corrosive, far more than shaders and such. Hiding features and information about a product isn't endearing or doing a favor to consumers. Look at No Man's Sky where they kept pretending they were hiding stuff as to not spoil it when it was fucking nothing all along. People should absolutely not be encouraging this. Alongside their war on reviews, developers/publishers won't be happy until people are buying games based entirely on one reveal trailer and a couple shitty partnered articles with IGN.
 

Blam

Member
Surprisingly I've only seen 1, 2, & 4 in here. No one has (or I missed it if it has) claimed the people annoyed at this are people who've never played Destiny.


"Big deal" or not this change is a noticeable negative change from D1 to D2. It's a far more tedious feature and it costs more money. There's no denying this.

This happened in the last thread. A lot of people shittalking the microtransactions never even played D1.
 

a harpy

Member
This is going to cause much indecision if there's rare shaders. Already fearing this. Perhaps not a huge thing in the long run, but still - just thinking about some rare gold shader and whether or not to use it on my current gear is already making me sweat.

At the very least, it'll make old content relevant for longer to more people. WoW accomplished the same thing instead by having ultra rare drops that people spend years farming.
 
Lame as fuck considering this game doesnt have vendors or auction house to get these shaders like any other MMO. Seems like this game wants to be an MMO in some parts but not others. Kinda frustrating. The amount of equipment swapping needing to be done throughout the game makes this especially heinous. No one should be defending a decision that literally goes backwards in terms of the first game.
 

blAAAm!!!

Neo Member
If the shdrers worked the same way as D1 then i would be really annoyed by this change, but since they can now be used to highly customize almost everything i feel that this change is fine. This is the way almost any other MMO works.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
I'm not missing the point, I'm just one of many who don't find a problem with the way they're doing it.

It's very clear that more people have an issue with this than don't. Two threads on Reddit right now.

I prefer this than paywalls for actual content.

This has nothing to do with paywalls for content. What are you talking about?
 

ExVicis

Member
This shit is absolutely corrosive, far more than shaders and such. Hiding features and information about a product isn't endearing or doing a favor to consumers. Look at No Man's Sky where they kept pretending they were hiding stuff as to not spoil it when it was fucking nothing all along. People should absolutely not be encouraging this. Alongside their war on reviews, developers/publishers won't be happy until people are buying games based entirely on one reveal trailer and a couple shitty partnered articles with IGN.

That's really a big problem in general with a lot of games and the industry. Everything being kept hush hush and a secret when it really didn't need to and would have gone a long way to prevent the extra outrage people gain when they find an aspect of the game that could have been communicated earlier. It's almost feels like a mentality of "If we just ignore it maybe no one will notice or question it."

This happened in the last thread. A lot of people shittalking the microtransactions never even played D1.
I can understand that and I used to be bothered by this but I can't gatekeep a discussion on something I can't confirm or deny for myself and, like someone else said, there can be a discussion about the practices of the industry without having played or experienced those practices.
 

finalflame

Gold Member
It's very clear that more people have an issue with this than don't. Two threads on Reddit right now.

It's not clear at all -- you're taking the opinion of what is a vocal minority relative to the game's entire base and making it sound like a resounding majority.

Most who post here or on Reddit are not really representative of the vast majority of those who play the game. People on both GAF and Reddit attribute a disproportionate amount of importance to their own opinions, when, in reality, they are minority communities for any large AAA title.

Will it get Bungie to look at the decision? Yes, probably. Will other metrics, such as how often players actually use and buy shaders, be what actually informs their decisions moving forward? Yes, definitely.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Sounds like an evolution of how Chroma was introduced to the first game, as a shader for spectific chroma-enabled gear. It was a consumable as well, and made toggling shaders difficult. And they appeared as drops in the weekly boxes.

I hated that implementation and sharded all chroma items, and the chroma itself. Now they've applied the concept to all shaders? Is that right?

If so that's a really awful decision. I loved finding new shaders and messing around with how they look on different sets of gear.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Sounds like an evolution of how Chroma was introduced to the first game, as a shader for spectific chroma-enabled gear. It was a consumable as well, and made toggling shaders difficult. And they appeared as drops in the weekly boxes.

I hated that implementation and sharded all chroma items, and the chroma itself. Now they've applied the concept to all shaders? Is that right?

If so that's a really awful decision. I loved finding new shaders and messing around with how they look on different sets of gear.

That's right, unfortunately. :(
 
I'm not missing the point, I'm just one of many who don't find a problem with the way they're doing it. I prefer this than paywalls for actual content.

Also so what if they're making money? They have historically released quality products, they deserve it.

Some of you need to look into the costs of game dev and how $60 isn't nearly enough. If people were willing to cough up more than that much back when they made the push, DLC/F2P/microtransactions wouldn't be as prevalent.

I'm not speaking about just Bungie, I'm talking about game dev in general.

On top of all this... the tried and true response to whenever someone whines about DLC/etc... "No one is forcing you to pay for it"

edit: cue the tears
giphy.gif
 

Daffy Duck

Member
It's not clear at all -- you're taking the opinion of what is a vocal minority relative to the game's entire base and making it sound like a resounding majority.

Most who post here or on Reddit are not really representative of the vast majority of those who play the game. People on both GAF and Reddit attribute a disproportionate amount of importance to their own opinions, when, in reality, they are minority communities for any large AAA title.

Will it get Bungie to look at the decision? Yes, probably. Will other metrics, such as how often players actually use and buy shaders, be what actually informs their decisions moving forward? Yes, definitely.

You're right about everything apart from the bottom paragraph. They won't change anything because this is how Activision want it.
 
If the shdrers worked the same way as D1 then i would be really annoyed by this change, but since they can now be used to highly customize almost everything i feel that this change is fine. This is the way almost any other MMO works.

Ehhh MMO's have vendors and auction houses to buy as many of any dye as you want, with rare dyes usually being exclusively for those who work for it with crafting while being on the auction house for others.
 

1044

Member
I don't like this change at all. The way shaders were in D1 was great. Often times I'd be happier getting a shader as a drop than if I got a weapon or armor. And it was pretty rewarding unlocking the faction shaders.

I liked to swap my shaders around a lot. There were definitely certain ones I liked better, but it would often take me a few hours of using one before making a final decision on it. So having them 1-use only now really messes up that entire little bit of extra enjoyment I got from D1.

I'd also like to switch shaders when I would change sub-classes. Little things like that to help me not mix up what abilities I was currently using. I really hope they eventually bring back the old shader method.
 

Bsigg12

Member
I think I would be on board with the changes if it meant the expansions were at no cost to all players but that's not the case.
 

finalflame

Gold Member
You're right about everything apart from the bottom paragraph. They won't change anything because this is how Activision want it.

They won't change anything because data will show that people are buying shaders and making them money, hence why Activision wants it this way. If the outcry was enough to gut shader microtransactions because enough people boycotted them, then they'd go back on their decision.

This would be wholly different if we were dealing with an independent studio that doesn't have a publisher who is accountable to shareholders controlling them, but that's not the case. Independent studios have an easier time being "responsible" to their users; once you involve a publisher, only one thing matters: $.
 
Reminds me a little bit of Titanfall 2's camo system. I'll accept this, but I won't be happy if if the shaders I want are extremely hard to get.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
I was told in the last thread that MTs for cosmetics are okay. So, i guess this okay. On the other hand, they allow you to customize more parts of your armor, so thats a plus?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
That's right, unfortunately. :(

Welp. Bad call, Bungie. Really bad call.

I'm okay with microtransactions that don't interfere with the core game, but they clearly redesigned the shader system with microtransactions in mind.

It's cosmetic, but part of why we get attached to our guardians is because we can make'm look great. Now that's tethered to a consumable, microtransaction driven item.

I hope they reverse it, but after the chroma blowback - which seemed to be abandoned in D1 - they went ahead anyways. Bummer.
 

Trace

Banned
Welp. Bad call, Bungie. Really bad call.

I'm okay with microtransactions that don't interfere with the core game, but they clearly redesigned the shader system with microtransactions in mind.

It's cosmetic, but part of why we get attached to our guardians is because we can make'm look great. Now that's tethered to a consumable, microtransaction driven item.

I hope they reverse it, but after the chroma blowback - which seemed to be abandoned in D1 - they went ahead anyways. Bummer.

Personally I'm hoping if there's a big enough blowback for this they will have it fixed by the time the PC version releases.
 
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