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In-depth review of the Samsung KS 8000

Karak

Karak

Member
Definitely wouldn't suggest the 8000. Actually have it sitting here for the second of video tests for another HDR primer video and its light pillaring, bad local dimming, and so forth just don't make it worth it compared to the nicer tech coming soon. If we were swimming in media maybe. But better tech is coming. Still ok if you want to say your doing HDR and just can't wait at all for better tv's because you will be doing HDR.
If your set on it, the numbers of returns is high and you can probably get one cheap on Amazon from their warehouse. This one here was 999 for a 65 inch. Prices come and go as folks get and return them.

Then again I am playing games on them and not just movies and that display IS different at times especially with stationary center mass focusing and such(characters right in the center never moving but the land does).

Also was astonished at how bad the light pillar was in Batman today. Got it to go away but by then a good deal of the improved picture(of course none HDR) was gone. Just no reason to cheap out.
UrbanRats said:
Suggested viewing before you decide whether or not to spend the cash on it.

i think i'll wait to see if next year they'll have a better solution w/ full array.
Click to expand...
Thanks that's mine.
 
H

Haines

Banned
Havel said:
Aesthetics and some TV tuning stuff.
Click to expand...

Oh good to know.

I still think im going to wait til next year. I can see 4k content being more accessible, project scorpio will be out and tvs will be more reasonable.

Feels like were still in early adopter territory which can be exciting but i dont want to impulse buy.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
Havel said:
Aesthetics and some TV tuning stuff.
Click to expand...

Other differences are include better CPU I believe for better 4k streaming via the built in app and better built in sound.

For gamers, these aren't worth it since most would be rocking their own sound setups and use thier consoles apps for streaming.
 
D

deadduck

Member
I've got the UK KS9000 (flat version of 9500) and game mode cannot be activated with HDR+ mode anymore. It could a month or so ago, but current firmware doesn't allow it.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
deadduck said:
I've got the UK KS9000 (flat version of 9500) and game mode cannot be activated with HDR+ mode anymore. It could a month or so ago, but current firmware doesn't allow it.
Click to expand...

HDR+ is not real HDR. Set it to Game Mode and open Netflix or wait for Forza Horizon 3.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
XiaNaphryz said:
Do we have any numbers on the input lag with a 4K HDR signal? There was some discussion on how 4K and/or HDR affects things in game mode, which is why I'm assuming this thread came up since it clarifies those numbers for the Samsung.
Click to expand...
I don't have numbers but I've tested HDR with my PC and it still feels responsive. This is when using mouse input which tends to suffer the most from added lag. I'm curious to see actual numbers.
 
longdi

longdi

Banned
Panasonic DX900/902 is pretty boss. It has 512 FALD zones vs 660 FALD of Sony new Z9D.

I prefer Japan brands because the sets in my homes lasted until i upgraded. Been hearing how Samsung/LG electronics break down after the 2-3 years mark.
 
D

deadduck

Member
MCD said:
HDR+ is not real HDR. Set it to Game Mode and open Netflix or wait for Forza Horizon 3.
Click to expand...

I'll try 'flix

Does it just automatically adjust? Because the menu features are mutually exclusive.

Edit: I see, HDR+ is fake HDR for non HDR sources.
 
C

CrayToes

Member
Buying a 4K HDR TV right now just seems to have regret written all over it for me. I'll wait until the market is more mature and you can pick up a full featured set without paying an arm and a leg.
 
D

Decado

Member
farisr said:
So I've basically decided now:

I won't be getting a TV this year, unless the 49 inch KS8000 (NA) comes down to around $1400 CAD or less during black friday or boxing day at a best buy/walmart etc (or around $1000 CAD from a US based online retailer that offers free shipping to Canada)
Click to expand...
Is there such a thing?

Also... getting a TV shipped from the US seems risky. Tempting...but risky.
 
F

flozuki

Member
FarFromAnyGame said:
Gaming consoles don't support Dolby Vision and Vudu ditched DV exclusivity so I think the format war is coming to an end.

and Samsung TV's have that One Connect Box which they could theoretically release an upgraded box to support DV. They did that with the older models.
Click to expand...

lol, I think you need to look into that again. The debate about formats is far from being over, it actually is just about to get started.


longdi said:
Panasonic DX900/902 is pretty boss. It has 512 FALD zones vs 660 FALD of Sony new Z9D.

I prefer Japan brands because the sets in my homes lasted until i upgraded. Been hearing how Samsung/LG electronics break down after the 2-3 years mark.
Click to expand...

As someone that is a big Pana fan: Awesome TVs but regarding built quality I had some issues with certain units, sometimes right out of the box including the DX900. You will find these myths about every manufacturer.
 
N

Narpas Sword0

Member
taoofjord said:
I had both the Samsung 65KS8000 and LG OLED65C6P and after going back and forth on what t do, decided to hold off on the OLED until LG gets their input lag down. I'm keeping the KS8000 and I'm super happy with it. The picture is freaking amazing once you have it properly calibrated. Light bleed, which initially bothered me, is no longer an issue once calibration minimized it (and I got used to it). There's no denying the superior OLED PQ but the KS8000 still looks astounding.

I'm having a blast playing Bioshock Infinite, Mad Max, and The Witcher 3 in 4K and I can't wait for Forxa Horizon 3 to come out so I can play a game with HDR.

Point is, if you want a 4K HDR tv this fall, this is the model to get. It's an amazing TV.
Click to expand...

What did you use to calibrate it?
 
R

Raybunny

Member
Karak said:
Definitely wouldn't suggest the 8000. Actually have it sitting here for the second of video tests for another HDR primer video and its light pillaring, bad local dimming, and so forth just don't make it worth it compared to the nicer tech coming soon. If we were swimming in media maybe. But better tech is coming. Still ok if you want to say your doing HDR and just can't wait at all for better tv's because you will be doing HDR.
If your set on it, the numbers of returns is high and you can probably get one cheap on Amazon from their warehouse. This one here was 999 for a 65 inch. Prices come and go as folks get and return them.

Then again I am playing games on them and not just movies and that display IS different at times especially with stationary center mass focusing and such(characters right in the center never moving but the land does).

Also was astonished at how bad the light pillar was in Batman today. Got it to go away but by then a good deal of the improved picture(of course none HDR) was gone. Just no reason to cheap out.

Thanks that's mine.
Click to expand...

That video was worth it. Thanks for the clarifications.
 
P

pswii60

Member
longdi said:
Panasonic DX900/902 is pretty boss. It has 512 FALD zones vs 660 FALD of Sony new Z9D.

I prefer Japan brands because the sets in my homes lasted until i upgraded. Been hearing how Samsung/LG electronics break down after the 2-3 years mark.
Click to expand...
Motion smearing on the DX902 was intolerable for me, especially when gaming at 60fps.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I always figured OLED would be the ultimate in picture quality - proper blacks for a start. But if HDR takes off, will that make LCD a better choice? Isn't OLED limited in brightness compared to LCD?
 
V

Vuze

Member
mrklaw said:
I always figured OLED would be the ultimate in picture quality - proper blacks for a start. But if HDR takes off, will that make LCD a better choice? Isn't OLED limited in brightness compared to LCD?
Click to expand...
I assume LED will be more attractive for daytime HDR consumption due to higher brightness but OLED should win hands down at dimmed lightning/in dark rooms.

Another question to those with some more knowledge. Am I supposed to run the backlight at full brightness in HDR mode? My TV switched over to 100% when it detected HDR content by default (I regulated it since the image was too bright for my taste overall when viewing at night). Does this in some way or form damage the dynamic range? The overall image brightness of course is lower when regulated but sun/moon/windows etc are still noticeably more bright and I don't think there's any detail loss in dark scenes. Still wondering why the TV would power up to full brightness by default.
 
D

Demonfang

Banned
Guys i need your help.

The US KS8000 is definety the KS7000 in the UK correct?

In the UK, the KS 7000 is £1100 and the KS 8000 is £1300. Should i drop the extra 200? Is it worth it? (49inch btw)

Edit: whats the upscaling like for 1080P
 
M

michaelius

Banned
farisr said:
The (NA) KS8000 price here in Canada is ridiculous. $2300. Even at the regular MSRP USD price, it should come out to $2000 at most. At the current sale prices ($1200 USD) it should be around $1600 CAD.

The Sony X800D models seem to be priced appropriately.
Click to expand...

That's kinda funny in Poland I can get

49X800D for 4500 PLN with 5 year warranty as a bonus
49KS7000 for 5000 PLN with second 32" Samsung tv thrown as a bonus

so Sony is overpriced as a novelty for the moment
 
F

farisr

Member
Demonfang said:
In the UK, the KS 7000 is £1100 and the KS 8000 is £1300. Should i drop the extra 200? Is it worth it? (49inch btw)

Edit: whats the upscaling like for 1080P
Click to expand...
You're better off saving the £200 and going with the (UK) KS 7000. Not enough of a difference to justify that extra price.

1080p upscaling is good on both.
 
D

Demonfang

Banned
farisr said:
You're better off saving the £200 and going with the (UK) KS 7000. Not enough of a difference to justify that extra price.

1080p upscaling is good on both.
Click to expand...

What exactly is the difference just so I can determine what I want?

Thanks for your help :)
 
F

farisr

Member
Demonfang said:
What exactly is the difference just so I can determine what I want?

Thanks for your help :)
Click to expand...
Like literally, it's so minor in aspects that it's different it'd be a waste of time to list them all.

Peak brightness is slightly less (as measured by actual instruments, so close that probably not noticeable by the average person)

response time is 2ms more
input lag is 0.4 ms more in 1080p game mode, 0.5ms in 4k HDR game mode.

Everything else is basically the same (the sound is actually slightly better for the 7000)

I would suggest going here, selecting the models (which would be ks8000 and ks9000 on this site) and looking the (very little) difference if you're interested: http://rtings.com/tv/tools/compare
 
M

Marmelade

Member
Neo_Geo said:
See the mention of no clouding, and good screen uniformity, has the time come to where I can finally move away from my aging 2009 Panasonic plasma set? Even recent "high end" LED LCD Tv's have looked like dogshit in comparison.
Click to expand...

No, it's like it's always been, a lottery (especially with edge-lit TVs like this one).
The one they reviewed just had a good panel, nothing more.
 
Vire

Vire

Member
Doesn't this thing have an edge lit display? Kind of enough right there to wait for a better model...
 
Dee Dah Dave

Dee Dah Dave

Member
Demonfang said:
What exactly is the difference just so I can determine what I want?

Thanks for your help :)
Click to expand...

Minor picture quality enhancement. Slightly different local dimming tech

Dual TV Tuner

Better build quality overall

Different stand (Centre instead of two outer legs)

If you are someone that watches and records a lot of TV, it's probably wiser to get the 8000, otherwise the 7000 is largely the same for cheaper.
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
Vire said:
Doesn't this thing have an edge lit display? Kind of enough right there to wait for a better model...
Click to expand...

problem is getting 20 input lag with HDR is not something you can really anticipate to be beaten

its just something you kind of have to hope can happen but right now nobody is close in matching it
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Vire said:
Doesn't this thing have an edge lit display? Kind of enough right there to wait for a better model...
Click to expand...

Full array backlights never really took off, so if that's what we're waiting for, we'll be waiting a while or paying a heavy premium. Edge lit just dominates with the obsession over thinness (and cost savings)
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
Evo X said:
So this is better than the LG OLEDs for gaming?
Click to expand...

OLED is in a different league to LCD in picture quality so that would be a no. Input lag on the OLEDs (C6. E6. G6) are fine in and out of game mode so HDR gaming should be no problem and this is without LG updating their firmware to enable HDR in game mode.

However, if you can't afford an OLED TV and don't want to save up for one then sure, the KS8000 is a good buy.
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
Kyoufu said:
OLED is in a different league to LCD in picture quality so that would be a no. Input lag on the OLEDs (C6. E6. G6) are fine in and out of game mode so HDR gaming should be no problem and this is without LG updating their firmware to enable HDR in game mode.

However, if you can't afford an OLED TV and don't want to save up for one then sure, the KS8000 is a good buy.
Click to expand...


LG EG:

4k @ 60Hz + HDR : 67.5 ms


The answer is that that is not acceptable
 
F

farisr

Member
mrklaw said:
Full array backlights never really took off, so if that's what we're waiting for, we'll be waiting a while or paying a heavy premium. Edge lit just dominates with the obsession over thinness (and cost savings)
Click to expand...
Vizio is pretty much the only hope in this matter right now if someone is looking for full array backlighting at decent pricing. All they need to address is the input lag in HDR.

Man I really want to know just what kind of input lag I've been dealing with/okay with. My TV is pretty old, so I can't really find any specific numbers of it in regards to input lag. For all I know, the current P series Vizios may have just as much, or less input lag in HDR than my current TV does. LOL.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
Future PhaZe said:
LG EG:

4k @ 60Hz + HDR : 67.5 ms


The answer is that that is not acceptable
Click to expand...

The C, E and G models have 50ms in HDR actually. That number you got is probably for the B model instead.

The B6 is a "basic" lower cost version with inferior internals therefore it has higher input lag.
 
S

SeeNoWeevil

Member
Kyoufu said:
OLED is in a different league to LCD in picture quality so that would be a no. Input lag on the OLEDs (C6. E6. G6) are fine in and out of game mode so HDR gaming should be no problem and this is without LG updating their firmware to enable HDR in game mode.

However, if you can't afford an OLED TV and don't want to save up for one then sure, the KS8000 is a good buy.
Click to expand...
The KS8000 has far, far superior motion resolution to any of the OLEDs. Much more important for gaming than some of the qualities provided by OLED, imo. Better latency also.
 
G

General Lee

Member
UrbanRats said:
So is Quantum DOT technology really comparable to OLED in terms of quality? It seems like Samsung is disappointed in the capacity for OLED to become cheaper to produce, and they won't bother with it in 2017, so i'm wondering if it's worth waiting for OLED to go down in price.
Click to expand...

QD is just a film placed before the light filters to increase the gamut of the display closer to the DCI-P3 standard. The panels are still just LCDs.

The VA panels Samsung use in the KS series are pretty good when it comes to black depth, and they reach higher brightness with HDR, so in a lit room they should be comparable, or even better, but in a dark room environment even the VA LCD's are prone to have backlight issues, and edge lit panels with dimming features aren't necessarily that good. Having a dynamic dimming feature that creates lighter pillars might look more noticeable than having it completely disabled. There's very few FALD models that actually work well enough to be of use, and those might impact input lag too much for gaming purposes.

I think the KS7000/8000 is probably the best you'll get in a while outside spending the money for an OLED. Maybe next year we'll get more models with better input lag and maybe some sets with usable FALD for gaming, but I wouldn't expect those to be cheap. I think the main reason for waiting is going to be just letting the HDR standard mature. There's not much content right now, and if HDR10 gets the dynamic metadata added to it and requires HDMI 2.1, all current sets and receivers are already outdated if they can't be firmware updated.
 
G

Goose_Se7en

Banned
Karak said:
Definitely wouldn't suggest the 8000. Actually have it sitting here for the second of video tests for another HDR primer video and its light pillaring, bad local dimming, and so forth just don't make it worth it compared to the nicer tech coming soon. If we were swimming in media maybe. But better tech is coming. Still ok if you want to say your doing HDR and just can't wait at all for better tv's because you will be doing HDR.
If your set on it, the numbers of returns is high and you can probably get one cheap on Amazon from their warehouse. This one here was 999 for a 65 inch. Prices come and go as folks get and return them.

Then again I am playing games on them and not just movies and that display IS different at times especially with stationary center mass focusing and such(characters right in the center never moving but the land does).

Also was astonished at how bad the light pillar was in Batman today. Got it to go away but by then a good deal of the improved picture(of course none HDR) was gone. Just no reason to cheap out.

Thanks that's mine.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I'm so hesitant to get the Samsung KS8000 or any 2016 model for that matter. I'm torn because on one side I'm getting a PS4 Pro on launch day and I want a 4K/HDR tv so bad just because I want the latest and greatest. On the other side CES is literally a few months away and what I really want is a Sony set that ticks off all the boxes I'm interested in ticking off.

Hopefully Sony comes through, until then (unless I see a crazy BF deal) I'll be rocking my 55 inch Sony W802a with 16.9ms of input lag while in game mode.
 
S

SeeNoWeevil

Member
General Lee said:
QD is just a film placed before the light filters to increase the gamut of the display closer to the DCI-P3 standard. The panels are still just LCDs.

The VA panels Samsung use in the KS series are pretty good when it comes to black depth, and they reach higher brightness with HDR, so in a lit room they should be comparable, or even better, but in a dark room environment even the VA LCD's are prone to have backlight issues, and edge lit panels with dimming features aren't necessarily that good. Having a dynamic dimming feature that creates lighter pillars might look more noticeable than having it completely disabled. There's very few FALD models that actually work well enough to be of use, and those might impact input lag too much for gaming purposes.

I think the KS7000/8000 is probably the best you'll get in a while outside spending the money for an OLED. Maybe next year we'll get more models with better input lag and maybe some sets with usable FALD for gaming, but I wouldn't expect those to be cheap. I think the main reason for waiting is going to be just letting the HDR standard mature. There's not much content right now, and if HDR10 gets the dynamic metadata added to it and requires HDMI 2.1, all current sets and receivers are already outdated if they can't be firmware updated.
Click to expand...
Where are you seeing FALD sets have higher latency for gaming?

Samsung have already said they would update their sets to support HDR Dynamic Metadata.
 
I

iMax

Member
Demonfang said:
Guys i need your help.

The US KS8000 is definety the KS7000 in the UK correct?

In the UK, the KS 7000 is £1100 and the KS 8000 is £1300. Should i drop the extra 200? Is it worth it? (49inch btw)

Edit: whats the upscaling like for 1080P
Click to expand...

It has more dimming zones.
 
K

ktroopa

Member
With Samsung releasing HDR update firmwares and CES not far off, i sense Sony and others will launch newer better HDR sets soon for gamers. Im happy to wait till then. As of yet there are few to no games with HDR and by the time they arrive, im sure there will be more tv buying choice out there.
 
G

General Lee

Member
SeeNoWeevil said:
Where are you seeing FALD sets have higher latency for gaming?

Samsung have already said they would update their sets to support HDR Dynamic Metadata.
Click to expand...

Processing the backlight based on the image would naturally increase input lag to some degree. I think most of the tests out there are done with game modes that have local dimming turned off anyways.

Samsung has said that, but like usual, I'd take promises of firmware upgrades to older models with a grain of salt.
 
A

Astrates

Member
I am thinking of going for this TV if it comes into sales for Black Friday or Boxing Day.

I am tempted to hold of for new sets but not sure if the wait would be worth it.
 
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