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Michael Larabel (of Phoronix) met with Valve today; tweets "steam is coming to Linux"

freddy

Banned
NdlHe.jpg
 

Victrix

*beard*
This is definitely good news if it's remotely true, but I'm thinking the years of progress Carmack made for OGL were pretty much lost entirely due to the years of 360 and DX9 dominance over the industry at large

I know my recent driver related experiences with OGL rendering have been... less than pleasing

Anyway, that aside, more fans having more access to more games and generating more revenue for their creators? Yes please. Nothing stopping a small but dedicated crop of indie devs who support linux to blossom on steam.

Unlike the occasional efforts by the indie scene and even some larger devs to provide linux ports, having such a huge distribution network with huge exposure dropped onto the OS could be a boon both for existing diehard linux nerds and for techies who have otherwise avoided even experimenting with linux as a serious non windows option.
 

itxaka

Defeatist
There are dedicated game distribution platforms on Linux? I've been using Linux for five years now, and I can't think of any.

But really, Steam for Linux can only be a good thing. I can't think of any legitimate negatives.



Desura?

I know it's not too big but it's the best we got. Also the Ubuntu software center which has some paid game on it :D
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
Gabe briefly mentioned he was working on a Linux project on the 7DCD podcast.

Wasn't this just the logical extension after porting Steam to Mac?

Same thing I was thinking. Gabe said he rolled his desk to the elevator, went to the Linux guys, plugged in, and is currently working with them lol.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
[21:37:03] <wh1t3fang> that is wonderful that they are really taking linux seriously

Yeah, just like they took "OS X seriously." Oh, wait, while the cilent/platform is there, the games didn't follow. And I feel that's going to be an issue for Linux as well. Outside of iD and Epic, who haven't done ports of their games to Linux in years. This leaves...?
 

aznpxdd

Member
Wait wait wait, and didn't someone get Linux running on mobile phones or something similar to that? Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.
 

Omikaru

Member
I think Linux is an important cog in getting Steam to the living room. It cuts a not-insignificant cost out of a system. Isn't a Windows license between $30 and $40 for the biggest PC manufacturers? When you're selling hardware to go under people's TVs, that's a big expense you don't have to account for if you're using Linux.

In the long term, I think Linux is vital for the future of the platform, if it's to grow. The sooner Windows is made obsolete for gaming, the better. Even for home builders it's great, since it cuts a rather significant cost out of the build (example: if I didn't have to buy a Windows 7 Home Premium OEM, I could've stuck more RAM into my system).
It also means we'd be shot of GFWL.

Though how would they achieve it in the short term? Would Valve put WINE into Steam to allow you to run legacy games? As hardware gets more powerful, does WINE's task on older games gets easier? I'm not that familiar with Linux from a technical perspective, so I don't know.
 
Not at all, sorry

How so? I've have a pretty comprehensive collection of 24 bit 96khz FLAC vinyl rips that I stream from a Solaris 11 server in my roof, and I use both regularly: Foobar when I'm booted into Windows and Banshee when I'm booted in to Linux. In my usage case, I've not noticed anything that I can do with Foobar that I can't do with Banshee. In your opinion, what exactly does Banshee lack that Foobar has?
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Yeah, just like they took "OS X seriously." Oh, wait, while the cilent/platform is there, the games didn't follow. And I feel that's going to be an issue for Linux as well. Outside of iD and Epic, who haven't done ports of their games to Linux in years. This leaves...?

How did you manage to selectively quote that sentence but miss the context? "They" is in reference to Valve, not game developers as a whole.
 

derFeef

Member
[22:10:55] <birch> he's a former Microsoft employee though right?
[22:11:01] <michaellarabel> yes
[22:11:06] <birch> even funnier to hear then.
[22:11:45] <michaellarabel> A quote from my upcoming article already, " Listening to Gabe Newell talk about Linux for hours made me wonder whether he was a former ex-Microsoft employee (where he actually did work in his pre-Valve days...) or the director of the Linux Foundation. "

A meeting topped off the day with Gabe Newell regarding Linux where he sounded more like a Linux saint than an ex-Microsoft employee.

I don't get it. Just because he is a former MS employee should him make love windows and hate linux? Some people have really limited point of view.
 
Though how would they achieve it in the short term? Would Valve put WINE into Steam to allow you to run legacy games? As hardware gets more powerful, does WINE's task on older games gets easier? I'm not that familiar with Linux from a technical perspective, so I don't know.

I would imagine that initially, they would add a flag and the Linux steam client would only display flagged games. Whilst it is in theory possible to run Windows games through WINE, it is in practice not ideal - even popular games like Portal can still be glitchy.

WINE is constantly evolving, and whilst 9 times out of 10, a new build means new features, sometimes new releases can, and do, break existing compatible apps. Therefore, with companies that sell a commercial distribution of WINE, such as Codeweavers, you'll notice that there are very few "officially" supported apps that are guaranteed by Codeweavers to run - usually Microsoft Office, Photoshop, Outlook, Steam, Half Life 2 and Portal. The more apps that are "officially" supported, the more potential work there is when WINE breaks something!

One possible option is to go to a company like Codeweavers and pay them to build wrappers around the windows binaries to do all the magic. This is the approach that Google took when releasing Picassa for Linux, and also Corel used to release their applications back in the day.

Lastly, one thing WINE can do is complement it's code with "real" Windows dll files - but the licensing for this is murky... one of the appeals of WINE is that you don't need a Windows license. Valve could potentially go down this route, and bundle together a package of the windows game and enough proprietory dlls to persuade it to run, but this would be a legal grey area.
 

itxaka

Defeatist
I think Linux is an important cog in getting Steam to the living room. It cuts a not-insignificant cost out of a system. Isn't a Windows license between $30 and $40 for the biggest PC manufacturers? When you're selling hardware to go under people's TVs, that's a big expense you don't have to account for if you're using Linux.

In the long term, I think Linux is vital for the future of the platform, if it's to grow. The sooner Windows is made obsolete for gaming, the better.
It also means we'd be shot of GFWL.

Though how would they achieve it in the short term? Would Valve put WINE into Steam to allow you to run legacy games? As hardware gets more powerful, does WINE's task on older games gets easier? I'm not that familiar with Linux from a technical perspective, so I don't know.



Wine + Developers + platform (Steam box) = More compatibility.

We can only hope that if Valve evere releases a Steam box, it's linux based so they can press other developers to move onto OpenGL.

On the other hand, it seems almost impossible so at least we will get source games + other several games (Civilization, GTA, indie games) which is ok in my book. I only need Civilization in my linux box :D


Ugh, Valve, Carmack and ID should be in charge of OpenGL. We will probably have something on par with Directx.



Lastly, one thing WINE can do is complement it's code with "real" Windows dll files - but the licensing for this is murky... one of the appeals of WINE is that you don't need a Windows license. Valve could potentially go down this route, and bundle together a package of the windows game and enough proprietory dlls to persuade it to run, but this would be a legal grey area.

I don't think Windows DLL are required anymore so that shouldn't be a problem.
DirectX, .net, VBrun dlls are the problem and they are installed trougth wine with no problem nor legal issues unless MS changes the license terms.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Why did he name the article "Valve's Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine" when it contains absolutely no quotes whatsoever?
 

STG

Member
How so? I've have a pretty comprehensive collection of 24 bit 96khz FLAC vinyl rips that I stream from a Solaris 11 server in my roof, and I use both regularly: Foobar when I'm booted into Windows and Banshee when I'm booted in to Linux. In my usage case, I've not noticed anything that I can do with Foobar that I can't do with Banshee. In your opinion, what exactly does Banshee lack that Foobar has?

I just dislike the UI and also foobar had nice SID support back in the days, the only thing on linux that kinda plays nice together with SID is xmms which I dislike even more
 

Clementine's better than Banshee :p . But does it beat Foobar? I'm not really sure.


Yeah, just like they took "OS X seriously." Oh, wait, while the cilent/platform is there, the games didn't follow. And I feel that's going to be an issue for Linux as well. Outside of iD and Epic, who haven't done ports of their games to Linux in years. This leaves...?

No no, Valve took OSX seriously. They did release all their Source games for it, and all their upcoming games will get Mac versions too. Shame they didn't release any of their GoldSrc titles, but they are still very dedicated to the OS. You can't really fault them here.

The biggest issues are with the third party publishers/ developers. One main problem is that a lot of third party developers have made timed contracts with companies like Feral Interactive and Aspyr to port the games for them. Most of these sub-porting developers release these games on their own downloadable services and refuse to sell them on Steam do to the profit cuts that Valve takes. So it becomes a bit of an uphill battle.

On the Linux side of things, I don't think we will be seeing too many big games for it, outside of Valves own titles. iD might release their games for the platform, but Linux will be indie game central for the most part. There are a lot of indie games for Linux (see all the hundreds of humble indie bundles), but no real big dedicated client to sell them on. Also, there have been quite a few Kickstarter funded games that have been announcing Linux versions too. The Doublefine adventure, Wasteland 2, maybe Shadowrun, Leisure Suit Larry, The Banner Saga, etc. I'm sure there will be games, just not many big names ones.
 

Omikaru

Member
I would imagine that initially, they would add a flag and the Linux steam client would only display flagged games. Whilst it is in theory possible to run Windows games through WINE, it is in practice not ideal - even popular games like Portal can still be glitchy.

WINE is constantly evolving, and whilst 9 times out of 10, a new build means new features, sometimes new releases can, and do, break existing compatible apps. Therefore, with companies that sell a commercial distribution of WINE, such as Codeweavers, you'll notice that there are very few "officially" supported apps that are guaranteed by Codeweavers to run - usually Microsoft Office, Photoshop, Outlook, Steam, Half Life 2 and Portal. The more apps that are "officially" supported, the more potential work there is when WINE breaks something!

One possible option is to go to a company like Codeweavers and pay them to build wrappers around the windows binaries to do all the magic. This is the approach that Google took when releasing Picassa for Linux, and also Corel used to release their applications back in the day.

Lastly, one thing WINE can do is complement it's code with "real" Windows dll files - but the licensing for this is murky... one of the appeals of WINE is that you don't need a Windows license. Valve could potentially go down this route, and bundle together a package of the windows game and enough proprietory dlls to persuade it to run, but this would be a legal grey area.

Okay, thanks for the feedback. When I was talking legacy titles, though, I meant games that won't ever get Linux ports, especially older titles like Deus Ex. But the point still stands, I suppose.

Maybe in the future WINE would be considered to let people bring their back catalogue over? I can understand the emphasis on proper porting at this point, since Valve want to encourage a certain developer mindset (i.e. making their games run natively on Linux) but after any transition happens, I guess they could start adding WINE compatibility for games that will never be ported for whatever reason.

What I was wondering is if this would get any easier as our hardware becomes more powerful (as emulation does), or if it's going to be problematic regardless.

The reason I ask is because as a long term goal, I'd like to be gaming on Linux and not having to use Windows at all. If I switched to Linux today, I'd need to keep a Windows partition for my legacy titles, and that's just a nuisance.

Wine + Developers + platform (Steam box) = More compatibility.

We can only hope that if Valve evere releases a Steam box, it's linux based so they can press other developers to move onto OpenGL.

On the other hand, it seems almost impossible so at least we will get source games + other several games (Civilization, GTA, indie games) which is ok in my book. I only need Civilization in my linux box :D
In my ideal scenario this is what would happen. Microsoft has shown little regard for the platform, so the people actually developing games for it should make the switch sooner or later. But on principle alone it would be nice for Linux to be a more prominent OS in the home/desktop space. The direction Windows 8 is going worries me, both from an open platform/digital rights standpoint, but also a usability one. It really is a dreadful OS and I'm hoping I won't be forced into using it or any of its like-minded successors.
 
What I was wondering is if this would get any easier as our hardware becomes more powerful (as emulation does), or if it's going to be problematic regardless..

No, because Wine Is Not an Emulator.

The way Wine works is that it takes the windows api calls and natively converts them to linux system calls - so there is no machine level emulation required. Therefore, mostly Windows apps run at exactly the same speed under WINE as they would in Windows, and in some cases, they actually run a bit faster....
 

Chinner

Banned
will see how this develops. i'm sticking to windows 7 because windows 8 looks like poop, but worst comes to worst i'll may swap platform (very eventually).
 
I use an iMac at work and went to see the Mac compatible games in my library and it turned out that nearly a third (about 100/300 games) were Mac compatible. If I can expect that kind of support on Linux, then windows is becoming my second operating system.

Of course I suspect that their real target isn't the Linux desktop, but rather that this is just a stepping stone to steam on Android and a steam box.

I'm pretty excite.
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
One of my friends pointed out last night that tons of indies have linux versions of their games and anyone who has been purchasing the Humble Indie Bundles will already have a sizeable linux catalog when this hits.
 
Desura?

I know it's not too big but it's the best we got. Also the Ubuntu software center which has some paid game on it :D

Well, OK :p . Desura looks decent, but it isn't exactly a well known service. And I am aware of Ubuntu Software Center, This is a nice alternative too. But it is a bit exclusive to Debian based operating systems (I have it installed on Mint 12).

And that is the problem, game services for Linux are either really niche and not very well know, or they are distro specific. Something big like Steam could really help Linux developers reach to a larger audience.
 

derFeef

Member
One of my friends pointed out last night that tons of indies have linux versions of their games and anyone who has been purchasing the Humble Indie Bundles will already have a sizeable linux catalog when this hits.

That sounds better. If they can release the Linux client paired with tons of indy games available (and some source games, TF2 hoho) - it's a real winner.
 

Jonnyram

Member
As a Mac user of Steam, I can appreciate the excitement you Linux guys must be feeling now.

But a couple of things you need to know:
- a game won't be on Steam unless it has a Windows version
- if a game is published by a different company on Linux than Windows, the Linux version won't be on Steam

That's how it is on Mac right now, and it sucks (a bit), but there's still plenty on the Store to choose from.
 

la_briola

Member
No, because Wine Is Not an Emulator.

The way Wine works is that it takes the windows api calls and natively converts them to linux system calls - so there is no machine level emulation required. Therefore, mostly Windows apps run at exactly the same speed under WINE as they would in Windows, and in some cases, they actually run a bit faster....

Yes, see all the Blizzard games.
 

Koren

Member
My thoughts exactly, the only thing thats keeping me on Windows is the games i have on steam.
The main thing that keeps me from playing game on PC is Windows. I use it on laptops, but I won't pay expensive licences regularly just to play games. I will only buy PC games if they work with Wine...
 
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