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Touch Arcade vs. NeoGAF

C

charlequin

Banned
AShep said:
Essentially you're giving them money that would otherwise be earning you interest or paying for something else now.
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Money would "otherwise be earning you interest or paying for something else" for literally any other use of it as well. That's all money is good for!

The purpose of financing, on its core level, isn't to enable "investors" to make a profit; it's to enable companies to do actual things, with the promise of ROI really only present as a method of motivating large stacks of capital towards the end of providing that financing. Things like Kickstarter are alternate methods of financing, that remove almost the entirety of the risk and frictional obstacles of funding in order to draw said funding from sources that can't pledge large chunks of capital. The purpose is not achieving that secondary, side-goal of investment, it's to accomplish the real, underlying purpose of investment -- to let people use their money to bring into being the things that they want to exist.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
Night_Trekker said:
I like how, at first, there seems to be some microscopic grain of coherent half-thought behind his ranting (meaning, "Kickstarter is just great for a generation of lazy children with a sense of entitlement about everything. They don't even have to earn their start-up cash!"), but then it all goes to shit and the dude is just trashing Kickstarter, and Republique for no reason at all.

It's like he had an irrational outburst, realized he fucked up since he's somewhat in the public eye (apparently, never heard of the guy or his site), then decided he would take it all the way to save face.
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yup, the classic "double down" strategy.
 
S

soultron

Banned
Night_Trekker said:
Of course he's allowed to do it. It's just that he's being a cunt, and there's apparently no rational explanation or reasoning for his behavior. It's flat-out odd and fascinating to watch, like a train wreck.
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Shit-talking someone like Peyton (who is probably very well connected within the industry) won't do him any favours when the iOS space gets more "AAA-tier" stuff, I'm guessing.

Hodapp has enough rope.
 
H

hiro4

Member
BigDug13 said:
Though the parallels between kickstarter and superpacs is funny. Pay a superpac hoping the backed politician makes decisions you like. Pay kickstarter hoping the backed developer makes the game you like.
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Isnt the idea of a super PAC to get the person voted in office so that he makes the choices you want.

It seems to me that there is an additional step here to be taken.
 
W

Wrestlemania

Banned
thetrin said:
Maybe because he's a hardworking dev that liquidated his life savings to make what he calls his dream game, and doesn't deserve to be needlessly lambasted for using a website for its intended purpose?
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Oh boo hoo. I think what he's doing is cool, but people are rightfully cynical of Kickstarter and one guy being slightly crass about it in a handful of Twitter posts doesn't justify this sort of overreaction.
 
DCharlie

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
If this has really upset you then go out and tell as many of your friends as you can about Republique rather than wasting energy on this because it's a dead end.

Whether you like it or not, it's his site and he can do with it what he wants and he can say what he wants. I use Touch Arcade, and i like it. I will still use it despite this because it's a good source of info.

I know Ryan, i know what he's made of, and that's why i believe in Republique.

It's time to spread the word not get lost in these back alley arguments that frankly don't do anyone any favours.
 
G

GillianSeed79

Member
Wow. Who is this guy again? I know who Ryan Payton is, but I have no idea who this douche is. I saw the pitch for Rebublique on Kickstarter but since I don't have an iOS device I didn't pledge and the 500K thing was kind of asking a bit much, but hell if I don't want to chip in like 10 bucks now. I may have read this wrong, but is this coming out for PC now?

Also that lemonade stand analogy is the worst analogy I've heard in years. I might not have liked Payton's influence on MGS4, but at least he's a known quantity, is young and has actually worked in the business.
 
N

Nibel

Member
zITBP.jpg
 
F

FieryBalrog

Member
Personally, I see no reason to kickstart a game when I can also just buy it when it comes out. The only way this will change is if there is a particular project that I have a high degree of both trust and interest in.

I kickstarted the idle thumbs podcast but that was because 1) I'd already gotten oodles of value out of it and 2) there is basically no way for it to "fail".
 
R

reptilescorpio

Member
FieryBalrog said:
Personally, I see no reason to kickstart a game when I can also just buy it when it comes out. The only way this will change is if there is a particular project that I have a high degree of both trust and interest in.

I kickstarted the idle thumbs podcast but that was because 1) I'd already gotten oodles of value out of it and 2) there is basically no way for it to "fail".
Click to expand...

What if it doesn't come out because it doesn't get enough funding?
 
D

dragonelite

Member
One question what happens to peoples money if they miss their target budget do people get their money back?

Gave some kickstarter projects $5 because of hype never really expected something in return.
 
M

McBacon

SHOOTY McRAD DICK
dragonelite said:
One question what happens to peoples money if they miss their target budget do people get their money back?

Gave some kickstarter projects $5 because of hype never really expected something in return.
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Yeah, and your card isn't even charged until the day the Kickstarter ends.
 
M

MarkusRJR

Member
I don't even know this Eli guy (never visited his site before) but from what I've read so far on his twitter he seems like an immature self-entitled person. Honestly, being rude to your readers (when you were in the wrong in the first place) when you run an iOS gaming website? That's like the lowest bracket of gaming journalism, and gaming journalism is the low point of journalism in general. I think nearly any Apple fanboy who wasn't completely illiterate (and has a basic understanding of building a website) could make an iOS gaming website. You should get off your high horse.
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
What protection is there on Kickstarter to stop the dev's just taking the money and running? Just curious as I know funds are used at their discretion, easy to get $50k and after a few weeks hit a stumbling block, then you have $40k to live on for the year?
 
S

Shaneus

Member
SteveWD40 said:
What protection is there on Kickstarter to stop the dev's just taking the money and running? Just curious as I know funds are used at their discretion, easy to get $50k and after a few weeks hit a stumbling block, then you have $40k to live on for the year?
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Probably about the same amount of protection as, say, Red Cross, local tin-rattlers or Kony 2012.

Obviously there's a good amount of faith involved, because you wouldn't invest money in something you either weren't 100% sure of, 100% prepared to lose or a combination of the two. In the cases of the two Kickstarters I've donated in (Idle Thumbs and Double Fine Adventure) they both firmly fitted in the former.
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
Shaneus said:
Probably about the same amount of protection as, say, Red Cross, local tin-rattlers or Kony 2012.

Obviously there's a good amount of faith involved, because you wouldn't invest money in something you either weren't 100% sure of, 100% prepared to lose or a combination of the two. In the cases of the two Kickstarters I've donated in (Idle Thumbs and Double Fine Adventure) they both firmly fitted in the former.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I have no problem with it at all, I was just curious what fraud prevention there is, you can be assured that once people catch on there will be a few cases where people have raised money on false pretences, but as it's donated I can imagine no criminal case being made.

Sort of a fraudsters wet dream.
 
M

mavs

Member
SteveWD40 said:
Fair enough. I have no problem with it at all, I was just curious what fraud prevention there is, you can be assured that once people catch on there will be a few cases where people have raised money on false pretences, but as it's donated I can imagine no criminal case being made.

Sort of a fraudsters wet dream.
Click to expand...

Yep. Which is why I have no problem with the guy having a negative attitude towards covering game Kickstarters, since it would mean associating his work with potential crooks or inept people.

But it got fucking weird when he got upset at people funding the projects.
 
N

numble

Member
charlequin said:
This is actually a big problem for iOS games in particular on Kickstarter. With PC titles, you can always provide your own direct download if necessary, or ideally get your game on Steam. if you do, not only can you generate as many codes as you want (to give the game to all your backers), but you'll also tap into all the marketing that comes with it -- the Steam sales, the word-of-mouth effect of people seeing their friends launching your game, etc.

As an iOS developer, you can't generate arbitrary quantities of free codes and you can't sideload apps (which means you can't, or at least can't easily, promise to give a copy to every backer over a certain threshold) and your only real marketing vehicle on the App Store once you launch is purely through sales-driven placement -- towards which your promo codes won't count -- which means selling your units upfront has a real cost to future success that isn't present the same way on other platforms.

I definitely agree it's pretty suboptimal, but it's driven by a real difficulty of the iOS platform compared to PC or even Android.
Click to expand...
Besides the promo codes, they have an allotment of slots for "testing" for which they need to supply device IDs. They can also give promo codes outside of their initial allotment if they pay for more codes, costing them 30% of the price (they recoup 70% of the price), and those codes count on the sales charts when they are redeemed. Freemyapps, freeappdaily, etc. give thousands of codes out each day, that they pay for.
 
N

Nohar

Member
This is quite... "bizarre". Why does an editor in chief act like this ? Sure, everyone has their own opinion about Kickstarter, be it good or bad, but going as far as to flame Kickstarter, Ryan Payton and NeoGAF, and act immature (if not completly rude) in the process...

To be wary of Kickstarter is one legitimate thing. To trashtalk it and someone who tries to build a project thanks to Kickstarter is another.
 
A

Aselith

Member
SteveWD40 said:
Fair enough. I have no problem with it at all, I was just curious what fraud prevention there is, you can be assured that once people catch on there will be a few cases where people have raised money on false pretences, but as it's donated I can imagine no criminal case being made.

Sort of a fraudsters wet dream.
Click to expand...

Lots of legit developers having trouble getting funded so aim low and good luck to you. I'm always willing to see a fool and his money get parted.
 
D

DaBuddaDa

Member
It's funny how every internet troll, including this "touch arcade" guy, whatever the hell site that is, seems to devolve into the exact same arguments, word choices and cadences. It's like there is a troll hivemind that takes over people's souls and makes them do their bidding.
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
DaBuddaDa said:
It's funny how every internet troll, including this "touch arcade" guy, whatever the hell site that is, seems to devolve into the exact same arguments, word choices and cadences. It's like there is a troll hivemind that takes over people's souls and makes them do their bidding.
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They always do the "bai guy I have never heard of!" thing when being told of lost support, like you are supposed to know all your fans / readers off by heart. Pretending that lost ad revenue isn't going to sting ftw.
 
O

onlyindreams

Banned
I was never able to take anything this guy wrote on TA seriously, it's like he would get insanely enthusiastic over the most derivative twin stick shooter/endless running flavor of the week shit and ignore any game that tries to do something interesting. Terrible writer/person and I don't know how he ended up in charge of such a big website.
 
K

Kurdel

Banned
It's a shame. I enjoyed the enthousiam of TA, but I think he has really acted immaturely in all of this.

I won't pile on to the hate train, but I would like to see this end well.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Vehement anti-Kickstarter people should realize that they basically all come off like less profane versions of this guy. You all sound pretty much equally goofy and myopic.
 
C

Coal

Member
SteveWD40 said:
They always do the "bai guy I have never heard of!" thing when being told of lost support, like you are supposed to know all your fans / readers off by heart. Pretending that lost ad revenue isn't going to sting ftw.
Click to expand...

A few people on Twitter and here and there on various forums isn't going to be too much "lost ad revenue", so I doubt it will "sting" too badly.

Think about how many people on earth there are. Then think about how many people have internet access. THEN think of how many of those people have iPhones, just in America alone. That number is growing every single day. People hate IGN all the time for review scores and whatnot, but they sure aren't n64.com anymore.
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
Coal said:
A few people on Twitter and here and there on various forums isn't going to be too much "lost ad revenue", so I doubt it will "sting" too badly.
Click to expand...

Perhaps not, but all trolls (such as this guy) pull the same defence, that they don't care they lost support rather than be so introspective to question why they did. God forbid he might be wrong.

Learning to admit when your wrong is character building but also vital in the world of the adult.
 
I

iratA

Member
Yeah all class. Like I said earlier, this man acts more like a teen with anger issues. At this point he is just embarrassing himself to no end.
 
H

Hydrogen Bluebird

Member
This is just me but...

Ryan Payton has worked on games like Metal Gear Solid 4 and Halo

Who is this Hodapp guy again?

Also, most people don't pledge money to kickstarter game projects so that they could also get a share of the profits. They pledge money because they want to play the games the kickstarter projects will produce.
 
P

Pachterballs

Banned
This thing read full on crazy. The way he was like "neogaf" this that is just fuck nuts.

I am amused. Ah well, his website does target casuals and I've never gone to it nor will feel a need to. It's just a pity someone who's a non creative feels the need to shit on kickstarter and the creatives who want to get their projects of the ground

His refusal to acknowledge that republique isn't vapor ware is amusing to illustrate just how wrong he is.
 
C

Coal

Member
Nohar said:
@Coal: Pardon me, but I was wondering if you and CoalArcane (from the TouchArcade forums) were one-and-the-same person.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just registered. And saying that he worked on two successful games isn't much, fuck, Capcom and Square-Enix have been making game for years and isn't it pretty widely agreed upon that their quality has been slipping?

All I'm saying is I don't personally agree with Kickstarter as a foundation to get funding for ANYTHING, not just games, and definitely not just Republique. I just get a kick out of how people are white-knighting it, honestly. It's just a video game but people are up in ARMS about someone on a website on the INTERNET making fun of it.

Internet: serious business.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Coal said:
Yeah, I just registered. And saying that he worked on two successful games isn't much, fuck, Capcom and Square-Enix have been making game for years and isn't it pretty widely agreed upon that their quality has been slipping?

All I'm saying is I don't personally agree with Kickstarter as a foundation to get funding for ANYTHING, not just games, and definitely not just Republique. I just get a kick out of how people are white-knighting it, honestly. It's just a video game but people are up in ARMS about someone on a website on the INTERNET making fun of it.

Internet: serious business.
Click to expand...

i like how you're trying not to care bro. it's cute.
 
Alexios

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Coal said:
Yeah, I just registered. And saying that he worked on two successful games isn't much, fuck, Capcom and Square-Enix have been making game for years and isn't it pretty widely agreed upon that their quality has been slipping?
Click to expand...
What does that have to do with anything? Did someone ask for TA to favorably review a game that isn't even out yet or what?

All people asked for (actually, all people expected, everyone we don't know gets the benefit of the doubt, and this guy so failed) is honestly, instead of blatant lies to misrepresent the project (ie no gameplay shown, it's just concept and big talk, claiming they will take your money and run just because it may be possible to do so under certain circumstances) and to just let it go instead of keep attacking them, Kickstarter as a whole, and those willing to support such projects, for no reason, and once again with lies being the foundation of pretty much every attack against them, save for details that stand alone/with the truth wouldn't sound bad.
 
DCharlie

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
Yeah, I just registered. And saying that he worked on two successful games isn't much, fuck, Capcom and Square-Enix have been making game for years and isn't it pretty widely agreed upon that their quality has been slipping?
Click to expand...

So - if Republique was funded by some other method and was in development, you'd cover the game right?

I guess i just don't understand the notion that you don't "agree" with how something is funded therefore you decide not to cover it or be openly hostile to it as a project.

I guess a further query : if Republique does get funded and goes ahead will you still not cover the game because it was "kickstarted" ?
 
Alexios

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I still don't see how Republique being potentially a bad game if it's made has anything to do with, anything. Will the guy not have worked on those other games if that happens, and only ever have the potential for bad games from now on? Not that there's any reason to assume it will be bad at this point, all we have to go on is the concept and the initial (quality) work shown, which some like and are willing to back the project over (or just wait and see what happens) and some don't. Plenty of yet unfinished games that could end up either way (or altogether cancelled for many reasons) are pimped on TA anyway, usually with a positive tone instead of running around like mad prophets over the very real possibility of such games being pretty bad in the end.

So, yeah, nobody tried to force you or hodapp to like or to back any project, honesty and decency is all people expected, and all they got was proof such expectations were too high as blatant lies and a childish attitude were spewed forth. Pretty pathetic.

I like how you pretend anyone who disagrees with that is some Ryan/Republique fanboy, otherwise they apparently shouldn't care (enough to post on teh internets, lol, clearly I won't sleep over it), I don't even intend to back the project (though, again, the work shown is of high quality, everyone can see that, so first impressions can only be positive, if cautious) but this thread is merely about that idiotic attitude regardless of the project so what you think is or isn't a good game/developer has nothing to do it.
 
C

Coal

Member
DCharlie said:
So - if Republique was funded by some other method and was in development, you'd cover the game right?

I guess i just don't understand the notion that you don't "agree" with how something is funded therefore you decide not to cover it or be openly hostile to it as a project.

I guess a further query : if Republique does get funded and goes ahead will you still not cover the game because it was "kickstarted" ?
Click to expand...

No, I wouldn't fund the game because it looks uninteresting to me and unoriginal (unless you count for the iOS platform). As a game concept it just looks TO ME (note: my opinion, please don't get butthurt GAF) like something that has been done time and time again, whether it be Metal Gear Solid, Splinter Cell, etc. I don't see why everyone seems to be so pissy about me personally not liking the game. Are you guys Ryan Payton? Did you work on it? Then who the fuck really cares?

To answer your other question, I wouldn't play it even if it were to become a GOTY-contender. Which I REALLY don't see any Kickstarter projects doing anytime soon.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Coal said:
No, I wouldn't fund the game because it looks uninteresting to me and unoriginal (unless you count for the iOS platform). As a game concept it just looks TO ME (note: my opinion, please don't get butthurt GAF) like something that has been done time and time again, whether it be Metal Gear Solid, Splinter Cell, etc. I don't see why everyone seems to be so pissy about me personally not liking the game. Are you guys Ryan Payton? Did you work on it? Then who the fuck really cares?

To answer your other question, I wouldn't play it even if it were to become a GOTY-contender. Which I REALLY don't see any Kickstarter projects doing anytime soon.
Click to expand...

keep spinning it bro. make it look like you're the victim, that'll make you more sympathetic.
 
M

MG310

Member
I could swear Ryan Payton said he already has gotten as much money together as he can outside of Kickstarter when he was on Weekend Confirmed.

It sounded like he has a lot riding on it..not just asking for a handout like this guy wants you to think.
 
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