dakkumauji
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Line Offline Salaryman 07
When everything goes wrong.
When everything goes wrong.
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Winter of Anime 2013 |OT -5| This is stupid, kayos90 sucks!
- Thread starter kayos90
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Jex
Member
[Nadia The Secret of Blue Water] - 16
General Impressions
This was another surprisingly sombre and effective episode. I've really enjoyed how far it feels like the characters have come since the start of the series and the adventure has taken it's toll on everyone. The shift from the Future Boy Conan-esque wackiness envisioned by Miyazaki to the darker story crafted by Anno is now complete. Some of you (theoretical Nadia watchers who also comment in this thread) might argue that the show got pretty dark ages ago when we first met Mari but I'd point out that overall tone is now far more consistent than it was ten episodes ago. Back then the show would have a fairly serious scene immediately followed by a wacky funny one - it didn't really work because the series was clearly trying to serve two masters at once. It appears that they've finally given up the pretence of making a wacky kids show. Of course, the Island-Arc regresses all this progress completely but that's why I elect not to view those episodes!
The writing for this show is surprisingly good, all things considered. While the script isn't anything outstanding the characters always feel true to themselves and there's not a lot of time wasted on pointless rubbish. One thing I liked in particular was
Animal Mascots
Those of you paying attention to the serious closely will have noticed that the lighthearted and mascot characters have largely been pushed to the side. King, the lion, is nowhere to be scene and Grandis' crew are marginalized. When animal mascots disappear it's generally bad news - see also Utena, Marco and Evangelion. They're pretty good barometers for the overall mood of a series because cute, cuddly characters have a hard time being onscreen next to shocking acts of violence and death.
Nadia's Legendary Production Problems Start to Manifest
Without an adequate understanding of the story behind the production of this series I don't feel educated enough to say where the series started to run into serious production problems. The Island Arc is clearly the most obvious example of these problems but I imagine that it must have begun long before then. Wikipedia informs me that as of the eleventh episode Anno was working up to 18 hours a day to try and get these episodes made to schedule, but as that's just Wikipedia I'm taking that claim with a grain of salt.
Regardless of when these problems began this episode is first in the series to clearly suffer due to the behind-the-scenes problems. The early scenes in the episode feature a number of stills, various shots throughout the episode take place from a distance so that the characters don't need to be animated very well or at all and on top of all that a few sequences feature jerky animation. In other words, all the traditional cost cutting measures are being brought to the fore. Due to the hard work of background artists most of this episode, miraculously, still looks pretty great but the relatively smooth animation that we've witnessed before is noticeably missing.
Direction
Of course, pretty art isn't enough to mask rough animation. Without some skilled direction you end up with a JoJo's episode fifteen situation where it becomes painfully apparent that animation isn't good enough for the story that it's trying to sell. I suppose that the team on Nadia actually had a real advantage when compared to say, the team working on JoJo's. As Nadia is an original work they can just re-write the episode or the arc around any problems they might be having and so create a low-key episode that won't be as much work for the team. On the other hand, a studio working on a manga adaptation should, theoretically, stay faithful to the material and therefore they don't really have much choice about how much work a given episode would take to create (except, of course, the power of filler).
The storyboarder for this episode was Mahiro Maeda, who according to this credentials is both an animator and director. He's worked on a number of Gainax properties but you may know him best as the director of Gankutsuou and Evangelion 3.0. As one might hope from such an figure, his storyboards are pretty damn good and the layout work is really impressive. While I didn't feel like this episode was quite as emotionally moving as it could have been I respect that he wasn't trying to manipulate the audience too overtly, instead there's a lot of time for both the characters and the audience to reflect on what's happened.
As I've mentioned before, one of the notable aspects of Anno's work is his appreciation for uncomfortable silences and pregnant pauses and this episode features a fair number of them given the fairly depressing subject matter.
Background Art and Design
Despite how shoddy the animation in this episode is I can't say the same about the background art. Gainax really went all out on this setting and there's a huge variety of really cool looking structures and landscapes in this episode. There are echoes of Evangelion's Tokyo-3 and as well as the mass grave site Shinji visits. I could just sit here and capture great images all day. You can really trace a lot of this stuff back to Nausicaa, which must have clearly impacted Anno's development quite considerably:
I tip my hat to the folks who did the general art design for all the settings in this series because despite the variety of places and people that the Nautilus encounters everything feels like it's part of the same cohesive universe. Also because it looks sweet.
General Impressions
This was another surprisingly sombre and effective episode. I've really enjoyed how far it feels like the characters have come since the start of the series and the adventure has taken it's toll on everyone. The shift from the Future Boy Conan-esque wackiness envisioned by Miyazaki to the darker story crafted by Anno is now complete. Some of you (theoretical Nadia watchers who also comment in this thread) might argue that the show got pretty dark ages ago when we first met Mari but I'd point out that overall tone is now far more consistent than it was ten episodes ago. Back then the show would have a fairly serious scene immediately followed by a wacky funny one - it didn't really work because the series was clearly trying to serve two masters at once. It appears that they've finally given up the pretence of making a wacky kids show. Of course, the Island-Arc regresses all this progress completely but that's why I elect not to view those episodes!
The writing for this show is surprisingly good, all things considered. While the script isn't anything outstanding the characters always feel true to themselves and there's not a lot of time wasted on pointless rubbish. One thing I liked in particular was
how both Nadia and Jean discarded their symbols. In Nadia's case she attempted to throw away the Blue Water, her only link to her heritage but an item that places a heavy weight on the person who holds it. Meanwhile Jean tosses away his spanner because he disappears of how man twists and manipulates science to further the art of warfare. It really shows both characters as equals in terms of the struggles that they face. Normally the show would show Jean trying to comfort Nadia but the positions are reversed this episode because it's confirmed that Jeans' farther was killed by Neo-Atlantis and he's the one that needs comfort.
Animal Mascots
Those of you paying attention to the serious closely will have noticed that the lighthearted and mascot characters have largely been pushed to the side. King, the lion, is nowhere to be scene and Grandis' crew are marginalized. When animal mascots disappear it's generally bad news - see also Utena, Marco and Evangelion. They're pretty good barometers for the overall mood of a series because cute, cuddly characters have a hard time being onscreen next to shocking acts of violence and death.
Nadia's Legendary Production Problems Start to Manifest
Without an adequate understanding of the story behind the production of this series I don't feel educated enough to say where the series started to run into serious production problems. The Island Arc is clearly the most obvious example of these problems but I imagine that it must have begun long before then. Wikipedia informs me that as of the eleventh episode Anno was working up to 18 hours a day to try and get these episodes made to schedule, but as that's just Wikipedia I'm taking that claim with a grain of salt.
Regardless of when these problems began this episode is first in the series to clearly suffer due to the behind-the-scenes problems. The early scenes in the episode feature a number of stills, various shots throughout the episode take place from a distance so that the characters don't need to be animated very well or at all and on top of all that a few sequences feature jerky animation. In other words, all the traditional cost cutting measures are being brought to the fore. Due to the hard work of background artists most of this episode, miraculously, still looks pretty great but the relatively smooth animation that we've witnessed before is noticeably missing.
Direction
Of course, pretty art isn't enough to mask rough animation. Without some skilled direction you end up with a JoJo's episode fifteen situation where it becomes painfully apparent that animation isn't good enough for the story that it's trying to sell. I suppose that the team on Nadia actually had a real advantage when compared to say, the team working on JoJo's. As Nadia is an original work they can just re-write the episode or the arc around any problems they might be having and so create a low-key episode that won't be as much work for the team. On the other hand, a studio working on a manga adaptation should, theoretically, stay faithful to the material and therefore they don't really have much choice about how much work a given episode would take to create (except, of course, the power of filler).
The storyboarder for this episode was Mahiro Maeda, who according to this credentials is both an animator and director. He's worked on a number of Gainax properties but you may know him best as the director of Gankutsuou and Evangelion 3.0. As one might hope from such an figure, his storyboards are pretty damn good and the layout work is really impressive. While I didn't feel like this episode was quite as emotionally moving as it could have been I respect that he wasn't trying to manipulate the audience too overtly, instead there's a lot of time for both the characters and the audience to reflect on what's happened.
As I've mentioned before, one of the notable aspects of Anno's work is his appreciation for uncomfortable silences and pregnant pauses and this episode features a fair number of them given the fairly depressing subject matter.
Background Art and Design
Despite how shoddy the animation in this episode is I can't say the same about the background art. Gainax really went all out on this setting and there's a huge variety of really cool looking structures and landscapes in this episode. There are echoes of Evangelion's Tokyo-3 and as well as the mass grave site Shinji visits. I could just sit here and capture great images all day. You can really trace a lot of this stuff back to Nausicaa, which must have clearly impacted Anno's development quite considerably:
I tip my hat to the folks who did the general art design for all the settings in this series because despite the variety of places and people that the Nautilus encounters everything feels like it's part of the same cohesive universe. Also because it looks sweet.
ZachDeKoromaru
Banned
Google says Devilman.
<Joseph> OH NO!
Ultimadrago
Member
Anime GAF, can someone tell me which show/film this gif is from?
Ran the url through google and Devil Man popped up.
Edit: Damnit
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Not one hundred percent.
I guess I should get used to seeing Jojo do less than four digit numbers in the weekly charts.Not one hundred percent.
?
It has a good chance to hit five digit numbers.
Well, actually I'm pretty new to dramas so I couldn't really recommend tons of things.
So far I only watched (I mean, every episode) Rich Man, Poor Woman, Freeter Ie wo Kau, Hungry! and the first season of Liar Game.
I'm currently watching Biblia Koshodo no Jiken Techo, Saikou no Rikon (both started a few days ago), Lucky Seven, Tokyo Dogs and the second season of Liar Game.
You might want to check them and see if the soundtracks sound good to you.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I'm preparing for a worst case scenario here. Lack of moé prepubescent girls makes me skeptical of its financial success!
Wandering Son 3
That was a great episode. Dealing with puberty at the same time as gender identity issues must be difficult. A lesser show would overact these scenes. Have the characters break down crying, but this doesn't, which is refreshing. You don't need to get that explicit to convey emotion successfully.
That was a great episode. Dealing with puberty at the same time as gender identity issues must be difficult. A lesser show would overact these scenes. Have the characters break down crying, but this doesn't, which is refreshing. You don't need to get that explicit to convey emotion successfully.
Jex
Member
Well, it's hardly like the presence of moe girls means guarantees financial success, most of those shows get crappy sales figures.
Earliest would be Fall 2013 I think.
Monster/butt ugly females
Look at that how am I meant to tell these woman apart supposedly they all have the same anatomy and faces.
^those are kinda ass
edit: second image works if a paste the url into a new tab and it also isn't a shit eating grin so i don't really see your point at all
The first image isn't a "shit eating grin" by any stretch of the word and the later two images don't even work.
edit: second image works if a paste the url into a new tab and it also isn't a shit eating grin so i don't really see your point at all
wide, smug grin fits my definition of a "shit eating grin"
and the grins in spice and wolf are wiiiiiiide
its a good thing fyi
more characters need to actually have teeth
wide, smug grin fits my definition of a "shit eating grin"
and the grins in spice and wolf are wiiiiiiide
its a good thing fyi
more characters need to actually have teeth
PorcellainThrill
Member
Japan's population pedophile/sexual deviants percentage is the only number that in any way influences anime sales IMHO.
Season 2 actually completely abandons the idea of explaining the neuroi. Seems like they decided they didn't want to take the show in the direction of focusing on that.
Thanks! Really appreciate it.
There haven't been many anime shows that have managed to keep me interested lately, so I guess this is as good an opportunity as any to try something different. I'll just consider any more good OSTs as a bonus along the way.
Honestly, a good example of bad One Piece art would be the slow "evolution" of Nami to the point where her waist is so thin it feels like a gust of wind could snap her in two at any moment.
Ehh, fair enough but they really aren't comparable to shit like this though:wide, smug grin fits my definition of a "shit eating grin"
and the grins in spice and wolf are wiiiiiiide
its a good thing fyi
more characters need to actually have teeth
no
its sonic fan art levels of wrong
Ehh, fair enough but they really aren't comparable to shit like this though:
yeah, that that kind of expressions just looks creepy in the anime
I think its the flat shading
Well, that's pretty much the same reason why I started watching dramas.
Yes it is.
Please stop Envelope-kun.
Im not a fan of One Piece either but this fighting is getting ugly on both sides.
We're better than that.
So to prove "the women look the same" wrong, you had to prove "the art is shit" right. You guys can't win.
Punch bowl mouth.Honestly, a good example of bad One Piece art would be the slow "evolution" of Nami to the point where her waist is so thin it feels like a gust of wind could snap her in two at any moment.
Ehh, fair enough but they really aren't comparable to shit like this though:
They aren't meant to win any beauty pageants the point is they don't all have the same body,face and height, their intend to be ugly their monster girls what did you expect.
...You're saying this in regards to Envelope's avatar? You think it is "sonic fan art levels of wrong?"
Uh... no. Not even close.
Character designs that don't look like total ass? The idea they have to be ugly because they're "monster girls" is just nonsense and comes across as nothing more than a pathetic defence of bad art.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The manga page posted looks great, though.
Perona is probably the most unique looking One Piece girl (that isnt supposed to be monstrous)
Cwarrior already posted the crazy old doctor too
its the same mentality of combining different shit from different worlds together into an uncharacteristic style, inadvertently making one of them look bad
Cwarrior already posted the crazy old doctor too
its the same mentality of combining different shit from different worlds together into an uncharacteristic style, inadvertently making one of them look bad
Theonik
Member
Golden Boy EP01 (ENG)
A work from the genius that gave use Pop Chaser this was pretty damn perverted and stupid, but charmingly so. Also the :Chet is off the charts. The MC is a complete moron but the tolerable kind of moron. Let's see what happens.
Golden Boy EP02 (ENG)
jacknod.gif Only in Anime.
A work from the genius that gave use Pop Chaser this was pretty damn perverted and stupid, but charmingly so. Also the :Chet is off the charts. The MC is a complete moron but the tolerable kind of moron. Let's see what happens.
Golden Boy EP02 (ENG)
Haha, you are my plaything I will do ecchi things to you so that my daddy kills you oh wait I fell in love with you now take my virginity.
But to call it SONIC levels of bad man. That is a very heavy statement!
SD happens.
But there's absolutely no way it even begins to come close to SONIC levels of bad here.
hyperbole for comic effect
nothing is as bad as sonic, that much was obvious
edit: apart from pony art
Well I guess I'll have to carry on being shtum about the events of JoJo a little longer then.
dakkumauji
Member
OreImouto 12.5
Best thing to ever happen to this show.
Best thing to ever happen to this show.
The only drama I've seen is My Boss, My Hero, but it was excellent.
For some reason, I haven't sought out any others.
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