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FINALBOSS
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:22 AM)
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In this thread: Wii U fanatics putting on tin-foil hats saying EA doesn't wanna make money hand-over-fist in a new demographic.


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TheGreatDivide
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:22 AM)

Originally Posted by Nibel

Wait

So you compare the backwards compatibility of the 360 to the ability of Wii U to play current gen games because EA just don't give a shit to invest much into the new platform? Do you really think that the 360's ability to run Xbox games (because it's from the same company) is the same thing like the Wii U being able to run 360 games?

THIS JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE

Calm down, Nibel. You just had a brain fart. We'll all ignore your display and pretend it never happened.
rdrr gnr
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:22 AM)

Originally Posted by Durante

No. If the Wii U was unquestionably faster than PS360 in all aspects (as was the case in previous generational transitions -- except for Wii) then this wouldn't be happening.

What would your guess be as to what component is responsible for the ostensible "bottleneck"?
Reiko
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:22 AM)

Originally Posted by guek

Hey I hear PS3 can't properly handle BLOPS2. That's what it gets for being a sub-par system that can't even match hardware that came out a whole year before it did. How embarrassing for Sony, mirite? And they had the gall to charge $599 USD at launch when it's clearly far and away inferior to the 360? WTF!

Because Sony tried the PS2 method of having devs work with exotic hardware and it bit them in the ass this gen.
KillerTravis
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:23 AM)

Originally Posted by MormaPope

...

Alien Colonial Marines will supposedly look better on Wii U.
NFreak
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:23 AM)
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I would have thought anyone who wanted to play Mass Effect 3 right now would have bought it already.... especially people on NeoGaf but I digress.
GhostTrick
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:24 AM)
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I just have a question.
Considering ZOE HD performs worse, or Silent Hill HD looks worse than the PS2 versions, does it mean PS3 and Xbox 360 are clearly not more powerfull than PS2 ?:)
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:24 AM)
No wonder EA was a in the finals for worst company of 2012 on that one consumer "March Madness" type tournament.

Did they win(lose) the championship???

I forget.
Durante
Come on down to Durante's drivethru PC port fixes. 15 minutes or less. Yelp: ★★★★★

Fixed Souls, Deadly Premonition, Lightning Returns, Umihara Kawase, Symphonia, Little King's Story, PhD, likes mimosas.
(11-16-2012, 09:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by guek

Oh man, you don't know the half of it. I was playing GoW collection the other day and that framerate was stuttering MAD crazy. I mean, who would of thought Sony would put out sub-PS2 hardware for its successor? Sure was a bold move.

I wasn't aware ME3 Wii U was rendering at 4k resolution.

Originally Posted by GhostTrick

I just have a question.
Considering ZOE HD performs worse, or Silent Hill HD looks worse than the PS2 versions, does it mean PS3 and Xbox 360 are clearly not more powerfull than PS2 ?:)

See above.

Originally Posted by MuseManMike

What would your guess be as to what component is responsible for the ostensible "bottleneck"?

If I had to guess? CPU FP performance.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:24 AM)

Originally Posted by NFreak

I would have thought anyone who wanted to play Mass Effect 3 right now would have bought it already.... especially people on NeoGaf but I digress.

Its not the same game
AniHawk
Cranky. Very cranky.
Rather sarcastic to boot.
(11-16-2012, 09:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Clay Davis

sorry of this has been talked about, but have ea said why they aren't releasing the trilogy on the wii u like they are on the playstation 3?

it's an odd decision by ea not to release the trilogy on wii u, what better way to introduce new players to the series and universe?

quoting a gaffer who asked this question:

EA did not expect Wii U owners to buy Mass Effect, anyway, so no point in porting over three games. If ME3 sells gangbusters, they'll consider it a proper summer home for Mass Effect.

so the wii u will have the problems the vita's having, but in console form.
StevieP
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:24 AM)

Originally Posted by guek

Oh man, you don't know the half of it. I was playing GoW collection the other day and that framerate was stuttering MAD crazy. I mean, who would of thought Sony would put out sub-PS2 hardware for its successor? Sure was a bold move.

If we're going to do this lol: My beast of a gaming PC with an i7 2700k and dual 7850 GPUs is also inferior to the 360. Damn you Saints Row 2 for exposing this

In this thread: Wii U fanatics putting on tin-foil hats saying EA doesn't wanna make money hand-over-fist in a new demographic.


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It's a bad launch port, dudes. No need to get your knickers in a twist. This isn't an industry first.
herod
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheGreatDivide

If the system was more powerful than 360 and PS3 by any significant margin, why is this an issue? I don't remember 360 struggling to play Xbox ports.

You must have missed tony hawk and gun
GhostTrick
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

No. If the Wii U was unquestionably faster than PS360 in all aspects (as was the case in previous generational transitions -- except for Wii) then this wouldn't be happening.

What he's saying makes perfect sense, your rage is preventing you from reading correctly. He's talking about ports, not backwards compatibility.




Then you confirm PS360 aren't faster than PS2 in all aspects ?
Nibel
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

What he's saying makes perfect sense, your rage is preventing you from reading correctly. He's talking about ports, not backwards compatibility.

So let me get this straight great Durante

There are not many Xbox -> Xbox 360 ports, I only remember Gun and maybe a few Activision/EA titles like Tony Hawk (?)

Now, I assume that the 360 has in some way a similiar architecture to the Xbox which should make it easy to port games from the XBox to the 360

But now he's "wondering" why the Wii U can't run ports from the 360 - consoles of two different companies and not 1:1 same architecture

Maybe I'm wrong, so please enlighten me how this is the same thing (serious question)
neoanarch
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

No. If the Wii U was unquestionably faster than PS360 in all aspects (as was the case in previous generational transitions -- except for Wii) then this wouldn't be happening.

What he's saying makes perfect sense, your rage is preventing you from reading correctly. He's talking about ports, not backwards compatibility.

Yes because all those shitty unoptimized console-to-pc ports prove the point that better hardware fixes lazy developer problems.
KillerTravis
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:27 AM)

Originally Posted by GhostTrick

I just have a question.
Considering ZOE HD performs worse, or Silent Hill HD looks worse than the PS2 versions, does it mean PS3 and Xbox 360 are clearly not more powerfull than PS2 ?:)

No, but Bayonetta and the Black Ops series run like shit on a PS3. Sony released the system a whole year after the Xbox 360 and they still couldn't put better hardware than a 360 inside it.
zoukka
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:27 AM)
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I am not surprised at all.
FINALBOSS
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by StevieP

If we're going to do this lol: My beast of a gaming PC with an i7 2700k and dual 7850 GPUs is also inferior to the 360. Damn you Saints Row 2 for exposing this


It's a bad launch port, dudes. No need to get your knickers in a twist. This isn't an industry first.


Not sure why you are saying it to us--we don't have the fin-foil hats on.


The company has been working on this since before ME3 even launched.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:27 AM)

Originally Posted by herod

You must have missed tony hawk and gun

I played TH. But the graphical improvement was there, at least it ran in HD and shit. It's not quite the same as "the exact same game with the exact same graphics" is it? The graphical boost can, to an extent, explain why it didn't run too smoothly. Although honestly I barely remember the game now.
Rezbit
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(11-16-2012, 09:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

No. If the Wii U was unquestionably faster than PS360 in all aspects (as was the case in previous generational transitions -- except for Wii) then this wouldn't be happening.

I know you're a bit of a wiz with computers, but is there really some quantifiable level of power where you can just go "Yep, let's dump this, it'll run fine and we can all go home."
Reiko
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:28 AM)

Originally Posted by herod

You must have missed tony hawk and gun

Haven't played Tony Hawk but Gun runs better on Xbox 360...


Originally Posted by GhostTrick

I just have a question.
Considering ZOE HD performs worse, or Silent Hill HD looks worse than the PS2 versions, does it mean PS3 and Xbox 360 are clearly not more powerfull than PS2 ?:)


Replicating the PS2's fillrate at higher resolutions is too much for consoles and modern PCs. Today's games aren't designed like ZOE2 on PS2.
Newton Crosby
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:28 AM)
This is a bad port, the Wii U has more powerful hardware.
End of story.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:28 AM)
E ffort A nti
GhostTrick
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

I wasn't aware ME3 Wii U was rendering at 8640*4860.

See above.

If I had to guess? CPU FP performance.




Sorry, this isn't an answer sir. Your point is that it's not more powerfull because it performs worse.
Should I conclude, going with your point, that PS3 and 360 can't run a PS2 game at 720p withouth sacrifices ?
Also, Dark Soul (without) your patch is locked at 720p and 30fps, even on a i7 2600k and a GTX680.
Does it mean my PC is just on par with PS360 ?
Erethian
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:29 AM)

Originally Posted by Rezbit

I know you're a bit of a wiz with computers, but is there really some quantifiable level of power where you can just go "Yep, let's dump this, it'll run fine and we can all go home."

If the architecture is the same but at a faster clock speed.

Originally Posted by Newton Crosby

This is a bad port, the Wii U has more powerful hardware.
End of story.

Well I think it's more appropriate to say that the Wii U is more powerful so long as you effectively utilise its different architecture. But yeah, pretty much.
- J - D -
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:29 AM)
- J - D -'s Avatar

Originally Posted by Game-Biz

I remember when people were hoping at least for a port that ran in 1080p 60 fps.

hahaha....

:(

Remember when people made peace with word that it was running at 720p and locked 30fps?

lol :(
NFreak
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheGreatDivide

Its not the same game

Not the same content either. Right, I forgot.
DonMigs85
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by KillerTravis

No, but Bayonetta and the Black Ops series run like shit on a PS3. Sony released the system a whole year after the Xbox 360 and they still couldn't put better hardware than a 360 inside it.

Nah, Cell is a much faster CPU if it's used for the right tasks.
The main strengths of the 360 Xenos GPU are its super-fast 10MB eDRAM and unified shaders. Otherwise in terms of fillrate it's the same as RSX in the PS3.

Also the PS2's 4MB eDRAM was 2560-bit in width and had a crazy fast 48GB/sec of bandwidth. That's likely what made it difficult to emulate on PS3.
Ashler
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:30 AM)
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Guys... Bethesda, Skyrim, PS3?

Yes?
rdrr gnr
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:30 AM)
I'm enjoying the passive aggressiveness being directed toward Durante.

Originally Posted by Newton Crosby

This is a bad port, the Wii U has more powerful hardware.
End of story.

Are you ignoring the elaborations being made; in some aspects, as stated, it may be weaker.
Durante
Come on down to Durante's drivethru PC port fixes. 15 minutes or less. Yelp: ★★★★★

Fixed Souls, Deadly Premonition, Lightning Returns, Umihara Kawase, Symphonia, Little King's Story, PhD, likes mimosas.
(11-16-2012, 09:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by GhostTrick

Sorry, this isn't an answer sir. Your point is that it's not more powerfull because it performs worse.

It performs worse while trying to do the same thing. Some PS3 HD ports perform worse while trying to render at ~6 times higher resolution. You'd have a point if all these Wii U ports were running at 4k.

Originally Posted by GhostTrick

Also, Dark Soul (without) your patch is locked at 720p and 30fps, even on a i7 2600k and a GTX680.

Yes, and without any effort from the devs, it still runs at 30 FPS compared to 10 (so 3 times better) in Blighttown. QED


Originally Posted by Nibel

So let me get this straight great Durante

There are not many Xbox -> Xbox 360 ports, I only remember Gun and maybe a few Activision/EA titles like Tony Hawk (?)

Now, I assume that the 360 has in some way a similiar architecture to the Xbox which should make it easy to port games from the XBox to the 360

But now he's "wondering" why the Wii U can't run ports from the 360 - consoles of two different companies and not 1:1 same architecture

Maybe I'm wrong, so please enlighten me how this is the same thing (serious question)

It's the same thing. If, say, the 360 had a 3-core 1 GHz in-order processor instead of a 3-core 3.2 GHz one, then I'm sure people would have had issues porting from Xbox1's ~700 MHz OOE chip. However, it was just so much faster overall that this was not an issue. This is not the case for Wii U. Clear now?
Writer_Head
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:30 AM)
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1080p 60fps is not going to be easy.
KillerTravis
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:31 AM)

Originally Posted by DonMigs85

Nah, Cell is a much faster CPU if it's used for the right tasks.
The main strengths of the 360 Xenos GPU are its super-fast 10MB eDRAM and unified shaders. Otherwise in terms of fillrate it's the same as RSX in the PS3.

Also the PS2's 4MB eDRAM was 2560-bit in width and had a crazy fast 48GB/sec of bandwidth. That's likely what made it difficult to emulate on PS3.

It was sarcasm... I know a PS3 is more capable than a 360.
JJConrad
Sucks at viral marketing
(11-16-2012, 09:31 AM)

Originally Posted by Nibel

CoD for Vita appearantly just took 5 months

I wonder how much time they had for this one

They apparently had about a year. One of the interviews states that they started on it before the original versions were finished.

But performance statement like those in the OP don't mean anything without a side-by-side. The original game wasn't without its issues but memories tend to be forgiving.
Oersted
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(11-16-2012, 09:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Valnen

It really is. The Wii U has more powerful hardware so there's no logical reason the 360 version would run better.

EA is the logical reason.
Pikma
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheGreatDivide

Welcome to the next generation of console gaming.

Ha! We meet again, hater.
I'll start counting your hit-and-run comments on Nintendo threads from now on, should be fun.
DonMigs85
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by KillerTravis

It was sarcasm... I know a PS3 is more capable than a 360.

Yes, but they REALLY have to work around its limitations.
Reiko
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:34 AM)

Originally Posted by GhostTrick

Sorry, this isn't an answer sir. Your point is that it's not more powerfull because it performs worse.
Should I conclude, going with your point, that PS3 and 360 can't run a PS2 game at 720p withouth sacrifices ?
Also, Dark Soul (without) your patch is locked at 720p and 30fps, even on a i7 2600k and a GTX680.
Does it mean my PC is just on par with PS360 ?

I think it's time for gamers to realize the strengths of the PS2 hardware. ZOE2 was one of them.
Clay Davis
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(11-16-2012, 09:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by AniHawk

quoting a gaffer who asked this question:



so the wii u will have the problems the vita's having, but in console form.

absolutely stupid reasoning from ea. do they not realise by having the trilogy as a launch title, more people might be inclined to buy it as launch titles are often snapped up by the bucket load.

their loss I guess, but the decision is a very stupid one.
GhostTrick
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(11-16-2012, 09:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

It performs worse while trying to do the same thing. Some PS3 HD ports perform worse while trying to render at ~6 times higher resolution. You'd have a point if all these Wii U ports were running at 4k.


It's the same thing. If, say, the 360 had a 3-core 1 GHz in-order processor instead of a 3-core 3.2 GHz one, then I'm sure people would have had issues porting from Xbox1's ~700 MHz OOE chip. However, it was just so much faster overall that this was not an issue. This is not the case for Wii U. Clear now?



I don't remember ZOE HD running 6x times the resolution considering it's running at 720p.
May I recall you that Wii U is running a second screen too ?



Originally Posted by Durante

Yes, and without any effort from the devs, it still runs at 30 FPS compared to 10 (so 3 times better) in Blighttown. QED




Any effort but a 15 times, if not more, powerfull hardware.
So we can consider this a no effort port, but with ME3, this is hardware fault ?
Why can't my PC run this game at 1080p without being patched by a modder ?
TheGreatDivide
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:36 AM)

Originally Posted by Pikma

Ha! We meet again, hater.
I'll start counting your hit-and-run comments on Nintendo threads from now on, should be fun.

Who's ran?

Who the hell are you and why are you talking to me so sinisterly?
Reiko
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:36 AM)

Originally Posted by GhostTrick

I don't remember ZOE HD running 6x times the resolution considering it's running at 720p.
May I recall you that Wii U is running a second screen too ?

Considering ZOE2 was sub 480p on PS2 it might as well be.
Ushojax
Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
(11-16-2012, 09:37 AM)
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A shoddy EA port at a console launch?

Shocking.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
(11-16-2012, 09:38 AM)
I hope the game sells two copies and there are two Youtube videos making fun of it.
AniHawk
Cranky. Very cranky.
Rather sarcastic to boot.
(11-16-2012, 09:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Clay Davis

absolutely stupid reasoning from ea. do they not realise by having the trilogy as a launch title, more people might be inclined to buy it as launch titles are often snapped up by the bucket load.

their loss I guess, but the decision is a very stupid one.

it would also back up the reasoning why the game is in a poor state. they never had faith in it, so they didn't devote too much in the way of resources to it. i don't think we can blame the porting company here- they probably did the best they could with what they had.

rumor also has it that ea wanted the wii u to be origin-exclusive. when nintendo said no, shut down whatever extra projects they were planning and basically pulled most support.

it sounds crazy, but this is the same company that wouldn't make any games for the dreamcast because sega had the nerve to develop their own line of sports games.
Anth0ny
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(11-16-2012, 09:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

Well, the answer is obvious. It's clearly not more powerful than PS360 in at least one aspect relevant to porting.

you gon die now. they are coming.



hey guys this is just a bad port job, i'm sure this totally won't be a problem in the future, especially when ps4 and 720 drop
Chanser
Member
(11-16-2012, 09:39 AM)
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Would be funny if EA publish all their Wii U discs with non-curved edges. Just to show they don't care.
DonMigs85
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(11-16-2012, 09:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Reiko

Considering ZOE2 was sub 480p on PS2 it might as well be.

A disturbing number of PS2 games actually ran sub-480p, despite that system's huge fillrate and bandwidth. Maybe they wanted to stuff the entire framebuffer into the 4MB?
Christberg
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(11-16-2012, 09:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

No. If the Wii U was unquestionably faster than PS360 in all aspects (as was the case in previous generational transitions -- except for Wii) then this wouldn't be happening.

What he's saying makes perfect sense, your rage is preventing you from reading correctly. He's talking about ports, not backwards compatibility.

Darksiders 2 runs way, way worse on my PC than the console versions, with constant frame rate stuttering at completely random intervals.

Rage had textures that were blurrier than the console version until I spent a significant amount of time tweaking the .ini file.

LA Noire is also completely unplayable on my PC due to frame rate instability.

I couldn't get GTA IV to look even comparable to the PS3 version until I upgraded my hardware a couple years later. (And this was with a Q6600 and a 5770 which smokes either console)

I respect you as a programmer but sorry, this line of reasoning is total bullshit.

Can we at least wait until we get some DF analysis with side by side comparisons before we use an EA title as a referendum on Wii U's hardware power?

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