It's not the same. You are comparing rivalries in schools vs rivalries such as the one I mentioned which involves nationalism and clashing political beliefs. Rivalries in soccer are on a whole other level.
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Is America the best at Football (american)?
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It's not the same. You are comparing rivalries in schools vs rivalries such as the one I mentioned which involves nationalism and clashing political beliefs. Rivalries in soccer are on a whole other level.
MWS Natural
Member
No. Just anything that involves sprinting, jumping or explosiveness [see Olympics].
Exactly. If American's gave two fucks about professional Rugby we would dominate it.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
Nnamdi Asomugha
Pollux
Member
Well when your clashing countries are the same size or smaller than our clashing states then it's a valid comparison.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
and we dont really have that sort of thing here in america, so it should be obvious to europeans why we dont care about your game
Atari Bigby.
Next.
The only sports the USA doesn't win at are sports we don't care about. Like soccer, which to most Americans is a kids sport that stops being relevant at the age of 10 or so.
It's also interesting that the rest of the world plays sports with each other while Americans are only concerned with competing with ourselves (professional and college), because we're so out of everyone else's league. Our players don't even want to participate in the olympics because they might get injured for the regular season.
Lol, posting that chart actually proved yourself wrong (as others have stated) as the USSR have a higher medals per games ratio, meaning they were more successful/dominant.
Anyways, America has some unbelievable athletes in nearly all global sports, but to think it is just because Americans have better genetics or something else is extremely ignorant? it isn't just about the large population pool or natural talent, it is also heavily about the amount of money, facilities, support, training options and general emphasis put on athletics in this country.
Other countries put more emphasis on education and science, America puts more emphasis on athletics.
Also soccer stops being relevant for young Americans because it isn't as high profile (or have nearly as much financing) as NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.
To your last point, most countries have their own national sports league where they compete with themselves for sports like football and rugby, and compete in a world cup every few years. They don't just compete with other countries as you claim. Plus, the NHL, NFL, MLB, and NBA all have teams from Canada competing. MLB has many players from Cuba, Dominican Republic, etc. and NHL has many Canadians and Eastern Europeans. To your very last point, most football/soccer countries don't care about football/soccer in the Olympics either, so I don't see your point with that. Plenty of American athletes care about swimming, track and field, etc and constantly compete with other countries year round.
Btw, I live in America and am an American citizen (albeit I am an immigrant from Europe, and have dual-citizenship).
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I wanna see the USA win at karuta before they fucking tell me they could be the best at every sport if they gave a shit about them.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
this was my high schools football stadium
after i graduated they bought an indoor training facility that rivals most pro teams
after i graduated they bought an indoor training facility that rivals most pro teams
I'm not even talking about countries here. Europe has more history than the States and when you have teams representing different cities (or even different boroughs in the same city), they inherit a lot of historical baggage. Rivalries between countries are usually not as big since there are not as many international matches as club matches.
The stereotypes teams make up for each other create a cultural clash. I grew up near the University of Michigan, so I was raised with an irrational hatred of not only Ohio State University, but the entire state of Ohio. If there is a term like nationalism that relates to states within a country, that definitely comes out in CFB.
Though, I will say that CFB fans don't typically riot or yell racial slurs at nearly the level of soccer fans.
The sport doesn't need rivalries to be good although it makes it more interesting. However, rivalries form naturally with time anyways. The big reason why rivalries aren't as big in the States though is because for all (or most?) of your leagues you guys use franchises instead of clubs. It's kinda hard to have a large emotional for a team if another city could just buy the rights to it. This must be why rivalries in college football are more intense.
It's not that we care that American's don't give a shit about soccer, it's that we constantly hear that if American's did care about the sport and put just as much emphasis on it as American Football, that they would be better than everyone else just because American's are so much more naturally talented than everyone else.
Or claiming that college rivalries are the same as some European soccer rivalries. For example, the rivalry between Madrid and Barca is much more than just sport - it is between two nationalities (Spanish vs Catalan), two political differences, cultural and social differences. Celtic vs Rangers in Scotland is also heavily religious based as well - Irish-Catholic vs Protestant, etc. Many European rivalries go far beyond than just a sport.
Again, I have nothing against American football, I enjoy watching it from time to time, and people have a lot of passion for the sport, which I respect. And it is true that most soccer rivalries are similar to college rivalries in the US, but they are not all the same. I understand some college rivalry from going to an American university (UC Berkeley vs Stanford - I know it isn't as big a rivalry as some other colleges though, so it might not be a good example, I don't know).
Diprosalic
Banned
is this one of the 'nfl players are super humans who would crush any other athlete in the world' threads?
sans_pants
avec_pénis
i think that just has to do with our culture and history. america dominated the world in record time and believes it will always be on top.
and yeah, stanford games hardly ever even get televised. ohio state-michigan would be a better barometer, we usually cram about 110k people into a stadium and the rivalry is incredibly intense
Pollux
Member
For College rivalries I would put a handful up there with any you could name for European soccer as far as hatred goes:
Alabama-Auburn
Kentucky-Louisville
Ohio St. - Michigan
Texas-a number of schools
North Carolina-Duke
etc. There are a number of rivalries that are just as hate filled as the Real Madrid-Barcelona one, and we have more of them.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
im being serious, do other countries produce athletes that are 6'6'' 280 with 4.4 speed?
ive never heard of foreigners being that physically talented, because if they were they would probably be in america playing football
sans_pants
avec_pénis
americans couldnt dominate soccer for many reasons, none of which include athleticism. its just not our culture, you are never going to make it a big time sport here when we have football, baseball and basketball. european soccer has so much history and generations upon generations of training that its stupid to even think about
Wouldn't they still be foreigners?
For example there is Sebastian Vollmer, a German who plays for the New England Patriots
Are the doping rates much higher in the USA?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Anti-Doping_Agency
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Anti-Doping_Agency
Diprosalic
Banned
soccer isn't tailor made for biological freaks like american sports are. you know the best soccer player in the world, a game that is played by billions of people is 5 ft 7 in?
Willie Mason
sans_pants
avec_pénis
yeah i guess. he's a tackle, not the combination of size and speed i was looking for. there are very few. sometimes the somoas produce some guys, but often just big bodies as well
I can agree that the hate and emotional levels for some college rivalries could be bad and intense as many teams in Europe (granted I have never seen riots causing the national security force to be deployed, or heard of people being stabbed after college games - maybe someone can prove me wrong though).
But that's not what I am arguing, the rivalries in some (not all) European teams aren't just about hate levels - there is often a heavily rooted socio-political undertone to all of it that goes beyond what you would get between people who simply went to rival universities, or live in rival towns. It's not to undermine college rivalries, it's just to say that they aren't necessarily entirely comparable.
Diprosalic
Banned
we don't produce 'em because we don't need 'em. you see, being that big has absolutely no advantage in soccer or any other sport we like actually you would have disadvantages.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
so freak athletes in foreign countries dont see the monetary opportunity provided by football or basketball? you think freak athletes are somehow created for sports?
Diprosalic
Banned
well for one yeah, HGH says hello. and do you honestly think they would just fly over at the age of 15 since they know they could make tons of money in the nfl? nobody cares about football here. out of all people i know there are like 2 who ever seen a game and i'm the only one who knows the rules of the game. no one could you name even one football player.
likedamaster
Member
American Football = Football for men
Ofcourse they are the best at it. They invented it, they have a whole culture around it. It's kinda like why koreans are best at Starcraft (except the inventing stuff)
Still doesn't change the fact that it's largely irrelevant in the world. The only reported thing in the media in Europe that I've seen is a tiny part about the Superbowl the day after.
And it should be called handegg, not football.
Still doesn't change the fact that it's largely irrelevant in the world. The only reported thing in the media in Europe that I've seen is a tiny part about the Superbowl the day after.
And it should be called handegg, not football.
Are you trying to tell me that a high school rivalry is as vociferous as that of Liverpool and Manchester United?
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
I guess Olympic Weightlifting doesn't require explosiveness...
US doesn't dominate PL, strongman or weightlifting, not even close.
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
Really? I love to hear exactly why that's a terrible attitude.
The CFL is not trying to compete with the NFL talent level. There are canadian content rules but the top talent in the CFL are americans that were unable to make the NFL. The CFL is very much a minor league with leftover players that can still have the opportunity to play the game professionally.
The talent level in the CFL cannot compare and they're not trying to because of the salary structure. The CFL is/was more comparable to the "other" football leagues and never the NFL. The CFL saw a major loss in talent because of many factors like NFL Europe, XFL, indoor football, NFL expansion, and the loss of feeder football programs at the american and canadian high school and college levels. The NFL take the best, but competing for the leftovers has always been the major source for CFL talent.
There are football skills that are better suited for the canadian game, and it is still quite popular despite the talent level. In fact many feel that the canadian rules are better and if the CFL had equal talent level it would be a superior game over the NFL. A lot of people feel that the NFL is evolving into the CFL game with a greater emphasis on the passing game.
timetokill
Banned
:lol, okay
UNC-Duke aren't relevant enough to have a rivalry.
Kansas-Missouri would be a better pick for 5th spot. Real hate there.
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
Agreed.
College/University, not high school. And, yes, while some are gentlemen's rivalries and very courteous, some of these are extremely filled hate. Also, it should be noted that these rivalries are not only very heated, but often heated across several sports that the schools field, not just the one sport.
I don't think he is, considering that he listed a bunch of Universities there.
ToLateToLove
Member
This is of course true but a lot of it is money. Children in rich countries have more opportunities to learn and try out different sports. Parents afford gear etc. That is why soccer is so popular especially in poor countries.Seanspeed said:
Also take Sweden for example. Good at soccer, Ice Hockey, Track 'n field, blablabla. This is from a tiiiny population of 9 million. It's the money maan!
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
I dont think anybody is arguing that American football is popular outside of the US, but Superbowl viewership is right up there with the Champions League final, so I doubt a Man U vs Man City match is gonna even come close.
Yea, good point.This is of course true but a lot of it is money. Children in rich countries have more opportunities to learn and try out different sports. Parents afford gear etc. That is why soccer is so popular especially in poor countries.
Also take Sweden for example. Good at soccer, Ice Hockey, Track 'n field, blablabla. This is from a tiiiny population of 9 million. It's the money maan!
Gotta ask: how much are sports pushed in countries outside the US? Its pretty rare that a kid grows up here without having played something at some point.
shadowsdarknes
Member
One way to compare the NFL and Rugby is by looking at average career lengths. Football is about 4 years because of how physical it is. Is anyone aware of how long an average Rugby player plays professionally?
lol college rivalries are the most intense you'll get in America, outside of Yankees-Red Sox, but they still don't approach soccer rivalries.
Alabama-Auburn was given as an example, but most of the fans of those teams will cheer on the other over most anyone else because SEC SEC SEC SEC!
Alabama-Auburn was given as an example, but most of the fans of those teams will cheer on the other over most anyone else because SEC SEC SEC SEC!
I don't think soccer will ever gain traction in America, as transfers/calls up to the National Team are pretty detrimental to the sport, which are pretty disconcerting to the Big 3 sports fan in America, where those leagues are considered the top of the top.
Anyway, Football is so ingrained to our culture (especially in the Gulf States such as Louisiana/Texas/Alabama/Miss), plus the fact that football actually does have a lot of equipment requirements/field requirements that it's pretty hard to get an established non 7-7 team.
And yes, imho most football athletes are probably better in aerobic sports (and not nearly as strong as anaerobic sports) due to the fact that the facilities are superior and the fact that juicing/growth hormones are pretty common even at the high school level, but nothing intrinsic to bloodlines or anything like that.
Anyway, Football is so ingrained to our culture (especially in the Gulf States such as Louisiana/Texas/Alabama/Miss), plus the fact that football actually does have a lot of equipment requirements/field requirements that it's pretty hard to get an established non 7-7 team.
And yes, imho most football athletes are probably better in aerobic sports (and not nearly as strong as anaerobic sports) due to the fact that the facilities are superior and the fact that juicing/growth hormones are pretty common even at the high school level, but nothing intrinsic to bloodlines or anything like that.
I try not to tread in football vs. soccer threads, but those doubting the brilliance of football just need to watch a Ray Lewis mic'd up game or interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fFSvNXhkH4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mLOmWYtf_E&feature=related
I like soccer as well, but no sport comes close to the passion, intensity and comradery of football.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fFSvNXhkH4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mLOmWYtf_E&feature=related
I like soccer as well, but no sport comes close to the passion, intensity and comradery of football.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
well clearly people from other countries have played and done well in just about every area of football(american) so i think other nations could definitely compete. The US has a pool from all continents playing in the professional game...and even at the NCAA level. I dont see why the rest of the world couldnt compete , what makes it so great here is the effort and competition behind the sport. Not some abstract idea of people born on in the US have some basic advantage.
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