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Is bread really THAT bad for you?
- Thread starter Kraftwerk
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Boco_Jones
Banned
When people are saying fruit juice is bad what kind of fruit juice is that exactly? I have the orange one where I just put a thumbs thickness of juice in it and dilute the rest with water. Are these bad too? Or is it the pure orange/apple juice kind that are bad?
All juices are worse than the original product, since they mostly have no fiber and are made out of concentrate, worse, most of those are even 50%concentrate; 50%whatever.
Of course many of those have "good" ingredients too, like antioxidants in cherry juice, but never use it as a complete surrogate for cola/fruits/vegetables.
Of course many of those have "good" ingredients too, like antioxidants in cherry juice, but never use it as a complete surrogate for cola/fruits/vegetables.
Well as you saw canola oil is chemically removed and has healthy ingredients such as lye and bleach used in its production process (canola oil was first invented as fuel in the 1800s and it tasted like shit...until they found a way to remove its bitter taste). Contrast this with olive oil which you could extract from your home by using an olive presser if you wanted to. These vegetables oils at high heat produce free radicals which are known to be bad for you. On top of that, these oils are usually high in PUFA which should be limited. In contrast, animal fats are high in saturated fats which are good for you.
You can forget about paleo and just consider this: If you want to eat healthy, cut the vegetables oils, and replace them with stuff like butter, coconut oil, and lard. Olive oil is good too (I wouldn't cook at high heat with it, but it's great to put on your salads, vegetables, fish etc.). Reduce your carbs by cutting the simple carbs (pasta, bread, white rice) and reducing carbs in general (such as from fruits and potatoes). Cut processed foods. Exercise.
If it's too much for you try sticking to a 80/20 model. Meaning you follow this 80% of the time, and 20% of time you eat other stuff. So you could eat a sandwich once in a while, a bag of chips, etc. Just understand what you are putting in your system.
But forget it, it's all bullshit anyways.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Some are bad some are good but the real issue is the modern serving size. A tall glass of juice in general is way too much sugar. Either drink it out of a small cup or eat the fruit it originally came from.
I'm sure they eat the same Americanized Italian food over there.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
funny thing is the human gut never stops adapting to changing environments. It's a very efficient system.
The only "bad" bread is stuff like Wonder Bread. Buy good quality whole grain bread and pay attention to the ingredients. Modern bread has been about the same for a long time and the only difference is the spngy, white bread that you find in many supermarkets that is like $2 for a loaf.
The problems of the American diet in the last 50 or so years is the reliance on fast food and the lack of fruits and vegetables and drinking lots and lots of sugary drinks.
Low carb and paleo "work" in the sense that many people overeat starchy and carb loaded foods (look at the typical "american" food: fried breaded chicken, potatoes, corn; better choice: grilled chicken breast, "California mix" veggies). With substituting lean meats and vegetables, you've effectively changed your diet for the better. This isn't new. That's why in a lot of success stories, people have gone from a diet heavy in junk food to diets loaded with veggies and lean meat. It's a no-brainer.
You don't really transition to lean meats when doing low-carb.
ChubbyHuggs
Member
Man, I love me some potato bread.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks for the in-depth reply. I'll definitely look into this Ray Peat guy and his way of eating.
This. People say it's a no-brainer but it isn't as you can see from the post you quoted. To go LCHF is to go against what most of the dietary/nutritionist community advocates. You are going against the grain. Doing simple low crab without upping your fat is a terrible idea. You'll feel tired all the time and you'll become depressed.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I suspect this is the reason you see people in diet threads who complain about feeling lethargic all the time after going low-carb or full-on keto. They are probably eating like 80% protein or something, which is not a good idea.
Ugh, pages of people who don't know what they're talking about talking completely out of their asses.
Yes, (most) bread is unhealthy, yes because of the carbs. What do the large amount of carbs from bread do in your body after you eat it? How does it affect insulin? How much carbohydrate does the average person actually use as glucose fuel before those carbs are stored as fat? What are the affects that prolonged spans of very high dietary carbohydrates (aka the food pyramid diet), have on most people's insulin response?
If you disagree with the fact that bread is not healthy, can you answer any of these questions? And If you don't even know what bread does in your body, then how exactly do you think you're qualified to post on this subject? Please.
Thank you to the people in the thread who actually know what they're talking about.
Yes, (most) bread is unhealthy, yes because of the carbs. What do the large amount of carbs from bread do in your body after you eat it? How does it affect insulin? How much carbohydrate does the average person actually use as glucose fuel before those carbs are stored as fat? What are the affects that prolonged spans of very high dietary carbohydrates (aka the food pyramid diet), have on most people's insulin response?
If you disagree with the fact that bread is not healthy, can you answer any of these questions? And If you don't even know what bread does in your body, then how exactly do you think you're qualified to post on this subject? Please.
Thank you to the people in the thread who actually know what they're talking about.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
You'll have to give it a try to find out. Weight loss (and gain) can be affected by a wide variety of factors and everyone is different, so it's really not that simple.
It's a bit difficult for me to believe a ton of people can eat plenty of carbs while other people can't at all. Why would fat storage vary so much? It's just weird. My Japanese relatives would have two bowls of white rice with breakfast alone, and they're absolutely not overweight. Nor athletes. I mean, it's just weird to me, I don't claim to be right.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
That's what carbs are for. A reduction not complete removal. That's why the standard diet guide contains suggestions for stuff like whole grains.
People get depressed and other stuff on restrictive diets. There has been psychological studies that show that stress is increased when presented with food you cannot eat due to diet or peer pressure.
That's why I always say go to a dietitian first to get a personal and professional suggestions.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It all depends on the person's lifestyle and what they eat. It's not as simple as just saying under X calories or X carbs = weight loss. Only general guidelines can be offered because everyone is different and most people simply don't, or can't, evaluate every aspect of their lives.
You won't really gain weight at a caloric deficit like that but time may catch up to you later on. By eating like that you may be skinny but still have a less than flattering amounts of body fat on you (skinny-fat like body) ). But there are other health issues as to why you'd want to reduce your carbs (such as the increase of the small dense LDL cholesterol (pattern B) or mouth hygiene). If you want to lose weight, nothing beats low carb + caloric deficit.
No. That's what fat is for. If you eat a lot of carbs your body won't use its fat reserves as effectively due to insulin. The food pyramid is fucked and advocates wayyyy to many grains, and too little fat (dat Agricultural subsidy). They advocate something like 6+ servings of carb heavy food products and only 0-3 servings of fat. That's ridiculous. No wonder everyone is getting fat.
ForeverZero
Member
It's the amount of carbs you eat a day is what matters the most.
Doesn't matter if its bread,rice,etc.
Keep it at around 100g or so a day(less might be a little better) and your good.
Doesn't matter if its bread,rice,etc.
Keep it at around 100g or so a day(less might be a little better) and your good.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Uh, they have updated the food guide since then. They also make the distinction between whole grains and refined ones.
Everyone is getting fat because of sugary drinks and bad food and no exercise. You have like a large percentage of Americans getting most of their caloric intake from soda alone.
If Americans were to change two meals a day to a healthier alternative and cut soda out, we'd be in a much better situation.
Ken K in the Fresh!!!
Member
sorry but I love breads too much to give it up. any food is fine, including fast food, as long as it's in moderation
hydragonwarrior
Member
It explains why so many vegetarians I've met are so heavy - they load up on the breads to feel more full when lacking protein.
Just on the almonds thing - wouldn't you be at risk of developing a nut allergy that way?
triplestation
Member
what about oats and brown rice they better be good cause theyre literally whole grains they haven't been FUCKED with
Still says the same thing: http://www.health.gov.sk.ca/canadas-food-guide
Fat isn't even on the list.
What does the USDA say?
http://www.choosemyplate.gov/
Again no fat shown in the image. Most of your energy comes from the carbs since they exclude fats and promote grain. And when they do they claim canola oil is healthy.
HoodWinked
Member
just dont eat anything ever.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
True. I'm not saying I completely agree with the USDA suggestions. Stuff like olive oil, nuts and meats have been quite demonized when they're actually beneficial.
That's the problem with demonizing foods, it leads to extremes. Yes, most people need to limit their carbs to 2-3 servings of whole grains . Yes, they need to add more fats to feel full. They also need to eat a lot more vegetables, which to a lot of Americans mean bland, boiled all to hell vegetables which is not the case in many other cultures.
And eggs, people still believe they raise cholesterol.
As always, go to a professional and don't rely on the internet.
ipukespiders
Member
Keto for 2 years now. Don't miss the carbs at all, and love the meat, eggs, cheese and green leafy veggies.
I do, however, use heroin. But only in moderation.
I do, however, use heroin. But only in moderation.
blame space
Banned
haha
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I disagree because a lot of professionals just get their official opinion from organizations that get their opinion from the USDA, who get their opinion from lobbyists and "scientific studies" funded by industry giants.
But, do whatever you feel is best, obviously. I'm not advocating that you take any specific post you find on the Internet, but I think it's a much better idea to really research this stuff on your own rather than ask any one person or organization for an opinion on what you should do.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
That doesn't solve anything and that's exactly why everyone is so confused about what to eat and what not to eat. There's too much noise.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
All it takes is time and a will to learn to sift through it. I think most people will come to a similar conclusion after a while. I've seen it happen a dozen times in the Weight Loss thread.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Eh, I still suggest seeing a professional. It's simple and they'll work out goals and diet plans with you. Saves a lot of time and effort.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/calories-in-calories-out/
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/calories-in-calories-out/
Horseticuffs
Full werewolf off the buckle
Ok, take me for example.A year ago I was between 350-400 pounds, being a lacto-ovo vegetarian whose diet was almost exclusively junk food. For dinner each night I'd have 4 blocks of fucking RAMEN with marinara sauce. Every night. for years. I say I was between 350-400 pounds because I could never find a scale that went high enough even if for some reason I'd WANTED to know the ugly truth.
A year later, still a lacto-ovo vegetarian but now out of a shitty marriage and reclaiming my life. Now I'm down to 195 and log every one of my daily 1,750 calorie allotment on My Fitness Pal. I have good reason to suspect that I'll hit my goal of 160 by the end of summer.
Now, being a vegetarian a lot of sources of protein and fat are lost to me. I eat TONS of eggs, full-fat yogurt, peanuts, etc... because otherwise my diet would be entirely plant-based carbs. As it is my diet is between 55-60% carbohydrates daily, and I eat roughly 250g of carbohydrates daily.
Carbs aren't the devil necessarily, it's largely due to what they come from to my understanding. I may eat 250g of carbs a day, but it doesn't come from much bread which I eat exceedingly rarely. I eat tons of beans, lentils, and every morning for breakfast I eat 12 ounces of oatmeal, which is a real treat.
I keep my sugar intake to around 35g daily and my fiber intake is up around 50-70g daily.
As has been said, carb source is so important and while I'm no scientist perhaps your Japanese relatives have evolved subtly over time to metabolize rice more efficiently due to it being a staple. It might also be due to their activity levels, genetics, or what the REST of their diet consists of.
In several weight loss communities I belong to, including here on GAF, I'll admit the zeitgeist seems to be centered around low-carb eating. Maybe if I could do it and ate meat I would have lost even more weight even more quickly. I can't really attest either way.
What I can promise you is that low-carb, while an excellent way, is not the only way. Even with my ingesting huge amounts of carbohydrates every day I've done alright.
I can't really answer the question "Is bread really that bad for you?". It's quite complicated, as you can see. I still eat it occasionally, myself. I can answer, from my own experience, that carbs themselves aren't necessarily that bad for you.
I'd sincerely like to try low-carb some time, but I just can't bring myself to eat meat and don't feel like putting the effort to figure out if there is a way for vegetarians to do it since I'm having pretty good luck with my current system.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Now that is a good post.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
I love bread but my digestive system really hates wheat. When I go wheat free I feel so much better.
That's the way it is and unfortunately it won't change. The USDA has it's stamp of approval on all sorts of bullshit products. Now imagine if they did a 180 on their stance. They'd lose all credibility.
The worst part is that when the anti-fat craze started, maybe people were skeptical and scientists wanted the government to do more research before committing to the idea that fat and cholesterol leads to heart disease.
George McGovern's response to that was: "Well I would only argue that senators don't have the luxury that a research scientist does of waiting until every last shred of evidence is in"
Imo, you should support diets such as paleo whether you agree with them or not since they try to break the status quo. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the food industry is fucked.
For weight loss I'd say low carb is the the best way: http://www.dietdoctor.com/science
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Difference between a nutritionist and dietitian.
The whole idea that all dietitians are under the spell of the food industry is really disingenuous and in the same ballpark as those who believe that all doctors are all under the spell of "big-pharma".
And quackwatch article on low-carb (Atkins)
Review of Pollan's In the Defense of Food
The whole idea that all dietitians are under the spell of the food industry is really disingenuous and in the same ballpark as those who believe that all doctors are all under the spell of "big-pharma".
And quackwatch article on low-carb (Atkins)
Review of Pollan's In the Defense of Food
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Geez, 400 pounds while being a vegetarian. My dreams of eating health & not gaining any weight just shattered.
The fact you lost over 50% of that in a year is proof whatever diet you are on now is solid.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I've read a bit about carb backloading and am interested in learning more about it. What sources did you use to get started?
Well, the first step is to stop equating vegetarianism with "eating healthy."
Horseticuffs
Full werewolf off the buckle
Oh man, there are so many awful ways to eat even when you're a vegetarian. The concept is so beautiful- Don't eat meat. You'd think that means load up on fruits and veggies, huh? Not for many vegetarians I knew.
You've REALLY got to train your system to stop expecting to feel "full" from fruits and veggies the same way it would feel "full" from another one of my favorite ol' dishes, taking about 8-9 small Yukon Gold potatoes and baking them with about half a cup of margarine.
Basically, it all comes down to educating yourself and learning how to have a healthy relationship with food. The thread last month that showcased the insidious lengths that the food industry will take to override your personal agency just goes to show that modern man sorta has the deck stacked against them when it comes to learning healthy eating.
It's hard to compete with food lobbies seducing politicians and spending millions of dollars finding the exact right flavoring and mouth-feel to make something irresistible to humans.
I am going to say it depends on the person, their metabolism, their level of insulin resistance and their level of physical activity. I eat bread all the time, have done so all my life and I have maintained a perfectly normal bodyweight for my height and age. I'm 5'11" 185lbs and I'm lean. I'm have a little tiny bit of "fat" in the tummy but its negligible. I work a desk job 8-5, do a lot of driving and still eat bread and don't put on poundage. Now I usually eat organic multigrain bread so which is full of fiber and nutrients so maybe that helps. I also eat a lot of rice, but also eat a lot of fat and protein.
JehutyRunner
Banned
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