No one buys physical PC games any more.
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Potato Masher (console-level used PC) vs PS4/PS4 Pro in Watch_Dogs 2
- Thread starter Sad Affleck
- Start date
Ok then skip the optical drive. It's still missing a controller and hard drive.
What do people do with their old pc games though? Just throw em away?
Hard drive $20, $10 of which is covered by the fact that I realized a few posts after the pcpartpicker post I actually accidentally chose a weaker more expensive cpu than I had in mind. Controller? Just use an old 360 controller you have lying around or one that works with whatever other consoles you have. If you want to play older games that are still on discs a drive for that will set you back around $10 if you can't just rip it from the old computer you used to play them on, but it's not like the consoles are great about backwards compatibility anyway.
For a 500GB maybe, but a TB is closer to 50. Also, the console comes with a controller for free.. You can't just not include one for the pc and hand wave away it lol
You can't use controllers from past gens on a console though, so... But a wired 360 controller is $10.
Lowest I can find is $25
New egg has it for 10. But w/e, you've successfully added $30 to the prices I originally posted that were already $10 more expensive than they should be and already had better hardware than the consoles they're competing with.
FutureProtagonist
Neo Member
Buy them on Steam for $5 or so is what I did.
Including peripherals and an HDD (2TB) and a $20 Windows license, you can get that PC for under $500 AR.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($59.48 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI B250M PRO-VDH Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($69.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill NT Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Hitachi Deskstar 7K2000 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.95 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon RX 470 4GB Red Dragon Video Card ($148.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Azza SIRIUS ATX Mid Tower Case ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Keyboard: Logitech K120 Wired Standard Keyboard ($9.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Mouse: Logitech G300S Wired Optical Mouse ($21.48 @ Amazon)
Other: Windows 10 Home ($11.99)
Total: $486.83
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-25 19:52 EDT-0400
And hey I included dual channel RAM and a 4-slot motherboard for good measure.
Lister
Banned
This desperate race to the bottom. The difference we're talking bout is $100 or so. FOR A MORE CAPABLE SYSTEM. And anyway it's not about getting you to change systems, or attacking consoles (except in so much that facts about performance hurt some crazy people's feelings). It's useful info for people interested in getting into PC gaming. I know that also offends some of you for some weird reason. People can't say, PC gmaing is pretty a fordable, and low end hardware cna go a pretty big way and opens up entire genres that don't or barely exist on consoles, without a segment of GAF descending on the thread to point out that, consoles are is still cheaper!! Nananananana (and often forgetting about higher game prices and monthly fees).
"Hey guys, with some planning, and a few sales you can actually spend a week sampling some of the best theater in NYC, for pretty cheap! It's affordable. you won't be getting prime seats or anything, but there are great performance to be had".
"But I can just watch my kid's high school play for free". Can I watch Wolf Hall for free? No? Well, suck it then!
(Just to be clear i'm ONLY talking about differences in performance here).
"Hey guys, with some planning, and a few sales you can actually spend a week sampling some of the best theater in NYC, for pretty cheap! It's affordable. you won't be getting prime seats or anything, but there are great performance to be had".
"But I can just watch my kid's high school play for free". Can I watch Wolf Hall for free? No? Well, suck it then!
(Just to be clear i'm ONLY talking about differences in performance here).
That is untrue for parts of Europe.
Lister
Banned
Pretty sure his point is that it's not necessary, not that you cna't do it if you really waned to.
His point is: No one buys physical PC games any more.
LittleBigGamer
Banned
If console only gamers really cared so much about those games, you could see them in the start or the end of a big conference like E3, instead of the last of us, horizon or Zelda.
They don't care that much or they don't care at all.
I can't believe that people really talk again about these genres. If we want them we will invest and buy these games. We are not idiots to punish ourselves.
Yes, a console is the cheapest way to play the best graphics out there imo.
Horizon, Uncharted, Detroit, GTsport, R&C etc.
It silly to discuss about multiplatform games that aren't optimised 100%, as the fact of what a console can do.
I like a console for the decent multiplatform games and I love it for what an exclusive game can bring out of the cheap machine. It amazes me and I feel that money are well spent.
In the end, it's all about preferences
All opinions are right if you follow what you like.
You are right in your post taking in consideration your preferences, but you are so wrong regarding my preferences.
funkystudent
Member
It's impressive what you can do with a smart budget build and a dodgy windows key but I wouldn't recommend someone goes that route. Personally I think $600 is minimum for a pc build. Cheaper is a cool exercise but you have way to many weak points.
Not including a sound system or a monitor I understand (a lot of people already have a monitor from previous usage and a sound system isn't vital to the system's functionality), but you can't even use a PC without an OS and at least keyboard + mouse, so yeah, it does skew the price to PCs favor by not including those.
wonderful103
Member
There are stores near me that can sell me a modern Lenovo factory refurb mouse and keyboard set for like 7.99. Canadian. I mean, there's being thorough and then there's being petty.
mrchampipi
Member
To me, those Potato masher vids are mostly aimed at the entousiast PC crowd. They show that one doesn't need a 1500$+ rig to play modern games decently, i.e "at console levels", and that frequent parts upgrades are mostly a luxury.
Now, I can't help but notice that playstation owners are always the most vocal in "defending" consoles in these kind of threads. The same guys that like to shit on other consoles for beeing technically inferior.
These videos are fun. Don't know why folks get so sore over them.
I want to know where people like you shop.
It's not just Sony people, there are groups from every camp that participate in the shit-flinging.
As do your posts.
You raise good points, but the same thing happens on both sides. Console warriors always make sure everyone knows they're cheaper, same as PC warriors making sure the console users know that PCs give better performance.
martincrimson87
Banned
Not sure why some console users need to get so defensive at times. Those boxes are not made of pixie dust... the technology was not high end 3 and a half years ago when released so it's only natural that pcs that target console like performance can be built for so cheap as of today.
The potato masher series is great because it allows us, users of older pcs to check how capable our configurations are at running the latest AAA games. I have a pc very similar to the masher (fx 6300 - gtx 760 - 8gb ram) It's good to know that I will be able to get at least 30 FPS with decent settings. And also that I can pop in a new graphics card and a RAM stick and give my aging rig a ps pro facelift.
The potato masher series is great because it allows us, users of older pcs to check how capable our configurations are at running the latest AAA games. I have a pc very similar to the masher (fx 6300 - gtx 760 - 8gb ram) It's good to know that I will be able to get at least 30 FPS with decent settings. And also that I can pop in a new graphics card and a RAM stick and give my aging rig a ps pro facelift.
Beerman462
Member
I find these videos interesting. When it comes to discussion on PCs it's always i3,5,7 and the newest GPUs. I think the idea of "generations" is sometimes wrongly attributed to PCs. My HTPC is running an i5 2400 and a 750Ti. I would have got something more future proof, but short slot cards are hard to come by. Either way it still works great for most games.
I bought the i5 2400 for $180 in 2011. It still averages well above 60fps in most games and maintains above 60fps minimum in most as well. I gave my 7870XT to my daughter for her PC. It's about a 3TF card so it's still decently powerful. I bought it in 2013 for $260 and added it to my then i5 2400 build.
That is one of the points of these videos. Let's say you build a $600 PC today that has a vastly superior CPU to the Scorpio or Pro for $200 more. You get 60fps at 1080 in a lot of games now and when the new consoles come out you buy a new GPU for less than the price of a new console and get better performance. You can also sell old equipment. When I bought my 6600K, I cobbled some old hardware together and sold it for $175. The guy I sold it to got a system that was somewhere between an X360 and an XB1 so not a bad deal for him either.
I bought the i5 2400 for $180 in 2011. It still averages well above 60fps in most games and maintains above 60fps minimum in most as well. I gave my 7870XT to my daughter for her PC. It's about a 3TF card so it's still decently powerful. I bought it in 2013 for $260 and added it to my then i5 2400 build.
That is one of the points of these videos. Let's say you build a $600 PC today that has a vastly superior CPU to the Scorpio or Pro for $200 more. You get 60fps at 1080 in a lot of games now and when the new consoles come out you buy a new GPU for less than the price of a new console and get better performance. You can also sell old equipment. When I bought my 6600K, I cobbled some old hardware together and sold it for $175. The guy I sold it to got a system that was somewhere between an X360 and an XB1 so not a bad deal for him either.
Liabe Brave
Member
I think that's a very premature conclusion to draw (though I know you're just repeating what the video said). As with the last Potato Masher video I saw, there are multiple errors and omissions of fact. Whether these issues are due to bias, ineptitude, or a lack of care I of course can't say. Carelessness is evident in the fact that he mislabels a piece of footage early on, but it doesn't seem sufficient to explain all the problems.
For example, the video claims there's no AO on the PS4 version, which is incorrect. It also goes unremarked that, while there are fewer reflections on PS4, the ones that are present are higher quality. Also unmentioned is the greater draw distance on PS4. Further, the video claims that reflections on cars are missing, but itself includes footage that shows this to be untrue. In addition, JERM does explain that the PM is using temporal filtering, but evidently doesn't understand (or simply doesn't say) that this means it's running below 1080p. Finally, the onscreen fps counter during some PM sections shows that the game is occasionally dropping frames while standing still or walking, and dipping as low as 27fps during regular driving. Digital Foundry found the PS4 to be locked 30fps during these activities.
So the actual comparison is something like this:
Potato Masher - ~763p +reconstruct, framerate 27-30fps; higher-resolution shadows, a few more reflections, selectable sharpening
PS4 - 1080p, framerate locked 30fps; higher-resolution textures, better reflections, higher draw distance
Interpretations may vary, but to me that looks more like a PS4 advantage rather than a draw, much less a Potato Masher advantage.
The PM Pro video shows a much clearer gap over the PS4 Pro, with actually higher resolution, all settings as good or better, and an identical performance profile. There is an error in the narration, but it's a common one--JERM does not understand what CBR is--and it's not material to the conclusions.
What does this mean!
This reaction always seems to happen.
Same with topics bringing up frame rates above 30 and to a lesser extent fov settings.
The entire point of the video is useful for exactly the reason you stated, but some people are just too sensitive about technical aspects of gaming.
I mean there are literally people that get upset over other completely unrelated people choosing not to play a game that's below 60fps.
I will say that it seems like pc gaming is becoming an even better long term investment considering the performance that can be achieved and the sheer catalog of games and the increased interest in backwards compatibility from distributors.
Which is exactly the point
Lionel Richie
Member
Yeah but can the videos play Bloodborne, Persona 5, Uncharted 4, Horizon, Yakuza, NiOh etc?
Huge Succeeded
Banned
y'know, the three threads linked in the first few posts are pretty good examples of how the 'fanboy shit' that these threads produce is pretty skewed in one particular direction. I don't understand those of you who choose to continue peddling this transparently bs 'both sides' narrative, when the contents of these threads clearly paint less of a 'both sides' picture than I'd imagine from the way you and others put it here. If you're talking about the gaming community beyond GAF, then make it known! because if you're trying to describe how PC threads on GAF usually go, then you're plainly full of it.
Oh my god
He's not trying to demonstrate that one is more valuable than the other. Value is subjective, not objective and varies from person to person by the way.
He's trying to show that if you want to get into PC gaming, but have a console budget, it can be done. You don't need thousands of dollars to get started.
How the hell is this so hard to understand? Did ANYONE watch the video? He literally explains this in every single one of his videos.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I know what you meant, but that's certainly not how I would have worded it, because that's arguable (and ultimately subjective) in any event.
some wires get crossed when you try and communicate that point to people, because there's still a lot of people who figure that the point of gaming on PC is to jack up the graphics. why play on a budget PC unless you have to? much less buy the parts to build one yourself?
Liabe Brave
Member
Let me append an addendum to my last post. I want to be clear that I don't think reconstruction methods are necessarily bad, and I think JERM is correct when he says that perceived flaws versus native resolution can be minor. But that said, the necessity to use reconstruction on the Potato Masher does mean it has to give up that advantage, however slight, to even come close to PS4's performance. This is meaningful data that should've been mentioned in the video...even if for some users, the tradeoff would absolutely be worth it.
I never understood masher videos either. the dude always uses old preowned parts yet doesn't include their price when comparing to a new console product and people are like ''well this is fine'' lmao.
What some people seem to miss here is that PC gaming isn't just about $2000 rigs running games at 1440p or 144Hz at ultra settings. It's about one thing: freedom.
That means the freedom to run what you want how you want on whatever hardware you want. It means people have options for how to get into PC gaming. The pretty graphics get the attention but at this point there's a shitload of gaming you can get done on just about any PC hardware. Many of the most popular PC games are optimized for the kinds of computers everyone owns.
It's just that people on GAF mostly care about the blockbuster stuff like Watch Dogs 2 or Mass Effect Andromeda, but as we see here, even that stuff doesn't need a four-figure beast to run. You just have to stop being obsessed with ultra settings and 60fps. Maybe 60fps is more important if you're playing on a monitor with a mouse and keyboard since the difference from 30 is more apparent in that environment, but on a TV with a controller it's fine. The only downside form consoles might be less consistent frame pacing.
To be honest, whenever I do try out PS4 games (on my original PS4) the overall look and performance doesn't disappoint me at all. I just prefer to buy stuff on PC because I feel a greater sense of permanence and freedom with my games. I can't play Persona 5 or Nioh on my PC, but I can still play Dark Souls 1 or Bayonetta on it without having to drag out my old computer or buy an HD remaster (I guess you can play those games on an Xbox One now). Like I said earlier though, I was fine with mid-range performance of AAA games until DOOM came out. Back in the day you would have that one bleeding-edge game that made you want to upgrade but to tell you the truth most games ran fine on modest hardware. The last time PC games made me want to do that was in 2011 with Witcher 2 and Crysis 2. That doesn't happen anymore, which has made PC even more accessible.
That means the freedom to run what you want how you want on whatever hardware you want. It means people have options for how to get into PC gaming. The pretty graphics get the attention but at this point there's a shitload of gaming you can get done on just about any PC hardware. Many of the most popular PC games are optimized for the kinds of computers everyone owns.
It's just that people on GAF mostly care about the blockbuster stuff like Watch Dogs 2 or Mass Effect Andromeda, but as we see here, even that stuff doesn't need a four-figure beast to run. You just have to stop being obsessed with ultra settings and 60fps. Maybe 60fps is more important if you're playing on a monitor with a mouse and keyboard since the difference from 30 is more apparent in that environment, but on a TV with a controller it's fine. The only downside form consoles might be less consistent frame pacing.
To be honest, whenever I do try out PS4 games (on my original PS4) the overall look and performance doesn't disappoint me at all. I just prefer to buy stuff on PC because I feel a greater sense of permanence and freedom with my games. I can't play Persona 5 or Nioh on my PC, but I can still play Dark Souls 1 or Bayonetta on it without having to drag out my old computer or buy an HD remaster (I guess you can play those games on an Xbox One now). Like I said earlier though, I was fine with mid-range performance of AAA games until DOOM came out. Back in the day you would have that one bleeding-edge game that made you want to upgrade but to tell you the truth most games ran fine on modest hardware. The last time PC games made me want to do that was in 2011 with Witcher 2 and Crysis 2. That doesn't happen anymore, which has made PC even more accessible.
People hardly finish watching because the narritive will always be the same for some.
The videos are more comparison of equal powered machines for the same price and the options you have with them as said above.
ivan.k
Member
But they are not the same price. Can you build a masher like that for 400$ ? No, you can't, unless you spent hours browsing Ebay for working used parts
Don't the console versions also use temporal filtering?
The fanboyism here is blatant and pretty embarrassing
Yes, you can build a masher like that. You don't have to browse eBay for hours looking for parts (talk about a fucking exaggeration lol), but even with new parts you can build a masher for pretty close to $400
The point that has been explained to you several times over but you conveniently gloss over is that this isn't about saying what's more powerful for $400. It's about showing what $400 can get you in the PC realm. For those interested in a PC, but at console prices
(Ps I built my pc back in like 2012 for $400. Had a hard cap of $400 and got a pretty capable PC. I'm still using that PC today, with a RAM and GPU upgrade. RAM cost me $20, the GPU was free)
Edit: and before someone tries to say that I'm a "PC fanboy" I own both a PC and PS4. But I haven't even played anything on my PC since late last year because I've been preoccupied with Horizon and UC4. (And BOTW)
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I feel like "used parts" can be replaced with /r/buildapcsales and patience
They definitely can. Hell, even bundles for certain parts on newegg would suffice
For cpus especially microcenter is a good place.
I got my 6600k for 150 there a while back.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Oh yeah microcenter is just straight up exceptional for prices. Bottom line, price is not really as big a sticking point as anyone here is making it out to be. It can be mitigated in a lot of different ways
I wanted to see if you can build a tiny pc on the cheap...
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($59.48 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock H110M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($69.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($55.45 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate FireCuda 1TB 2.5" 5400RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($65.95 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB SC GAMING ACX 2.0 Video Card ($120.66 @ Amazon)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 110 Mini ITX Tower Case ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA BQ 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($55.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $452.50
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-26 00:42 EDT-0400
Dang, PCs have gotten cheap to build now. I can only imagine what Ryzen 3 will do.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($59.48 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock H110M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($69.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($55.45 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate FireCuda 1TB 2.5" 5400RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($65.95 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB SC GAMING ACX 2.0 Video Card ($120.66 @ Amazon)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 110 Mini ITX Tower Case ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA BQ 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($55.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $452.50
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-26 00:42 EDT-0400
Dang, PCs have gotten cheap to build now. I can only imagine what Ryzen 3 will do.
Yup, new golden age for pc gaming honestly.
Between the glorious return of essentially dead genres, new bundles, some huge upgrades to performance on all ends of the price range, and a resurgent interest in maintaining compatibility from companies like GOG, it's a pretty great time to jump in.
Liabe Brave
Member
I thought that too, but comparing the footage it's very obvious that PS4 is rendering at a higher resolution than the Potato Masher. Given that both are supposedly set to the same size output, only the temporal filtering can explain it.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
This is bullshit. I bought a six year old Xbox 360 game on steam to play on my year old $400 laptop and it barely runs. If you want to seriously game on PC then you need to shell out on more expensive hardware and at that point you're better off buying a PS4 because it's $350 if not less and comes bundled with a game.
No offence but your argument is what's kinda silly.
Your laptop may be $400 but if you don't tell us the specs your example holds no water. There are $1k laptops that wouldn't run such games because they're designed for different tasks in mind.
Pumping money into something isn't the end all discussion in pcs.
And that's not getting into laptops will generally be more expensive than a pc that offers similar performance.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
The argument he's making is Joe Schmoe can use any computer to play any popular PC game when speaking from experience that's not how it works.