-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
- Status
slightconfuse
Banned
That legendary seems fine. Not game changing its a reverse bolf ramshield
They haven't really had any good class legendaries in a while. Hope the Mage one is good
They haven't really had any good class legendaries in a while. Hope the Mage one is good
Cobra shot was a mistake, its nothing but trash.
Fandral is a thing
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I sorta feel this way about a lot of cards both in Hearth and CCGs in general in that your stat odds just wildly decrease if the card you want to play relies heavily on another card to get good use.
Having to combo cards together to gain value is hard to do for a variety of reasons. You need to play them together on a curve. You need both cards in your hand. You need enough value in the outcome to overcome so many other cards that add immediate value either through charge/battlecry or death rattle.
Plus if a card isn't good on its own and you draw it then you've essential got a dead draw without the other card.
The only drops that seem to defy this logic are all basically 1 mana drops so you can buff out the gate asap like mana wyrm or secret keeper.
Yeah without buffs it's bad. Thing with Hunter, you cannot drop a minion that's just vanilla without stealth, deathrattle, battlecry. Your opponent will just kill it somehow because they have removal that you dodged earlier.
Tiger is just much more reliable in face hunter. So midrange is the only potential place for Knuckles. One upside for it is that the 5-drop slot isn't exactly crowded with premium cards in hunter, they have to play unoptimal stuff like the charge kodo.
Tiger is just much more reliable in face hunter. So midrange is the only potential place for Knuckles. One upside for it is that the 5-drop slot isn't exactly crowded with premium cards in hunter, they have to play unoptimal stuff like the charge kodo.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
If the face plays taunt, me still go face.
Oh it increases faster now, at over 50%.
Must say i like the new paladin "buff all minions in your hand" mechanic, but it doesn't fit the aggro playstyle i think, mainly because of the slower start. You have the small time recruits card for example which you want to play before buffing your hand, so you can flood the board next turn for a tempo loss. Obviously the mechanic requires you to have many cards for the best result, hope we will see a new deck type.
Really really hope it's not a aggro deck.
Aggro bubble paladin was a thing so a similar deck with these hand buff cards could work for sure.
For midrange I just don't see the value. You already play as cost effective minions as possible so a +1/1 buff doesn't really change anything and you might not have many minions in your hand to buff.
The card is at 60% now.
Looks like the card will barely make it. I guess most people out there care as much goons as we do.
The huntere legendary is alright, hardly the worst pick ever in arena.
It's probably a stat point or 2 too weak to get a spot in Midrange hunter (don't even think about playing this in aggro).
It's also another bad barnes target.
Looks like the card will barely make it. I guess most people out there care as much goons as we do.
The huntere legendary is alright, hardly the worst pick ever in arena.
It's probably a stat point or 2 too weak to get a spot in Midrange hunter (don't even think about playing this in aggro).
It's also another bad barnes target.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think the hunter legendary is pretty good. Good enough stats to be ran without being buffed and scales a bit better when it is buffed. It's not in a slot that is facing heavy competition for hunter.
3/7 is not good stat at all for 5 drop
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
"Good enough", and yeah it is good enough. 10 stats for a 5 drop is above average I think. 1 stat off from being a pit fighter.
Hunters have been known to play stranglethorn tiger in that slot. This is easily better than stranglethorn tiger. It basically has ignore taunts in a way too.
That card has as much of an impact as the 2/7 turtle 4 drop has 
that is to say, that terrible card is still scary with houndmaster but it's not really going to help you. It's easy enough to deal with it, 4-5 drops in the game with 5 attack eat it easy. You could say it's still a minion your opponent has to deal with but that goes for anything hunter plays. I don't think it's good enough when you can play something your opponent can't deal with like tiger. Tiger has proved itself in hybrid hunter in the past if you want a 5 drop. Right now it's just better to not play a 5 drop. 5 is a odd slot, you want to squeeze in a hero power in these kind of decks and 5 mana cards make it inefficient most of the time.
that is to say, that terrible card is still scary with houndmaster but it's not really going to help you. It's easy enough to deal with it, 4-5 drops in the game with 5 attack eat it easy. You could say it's still a minion your opponent has to deal with but that goes for anything hunter plays. I don't think it's good enough when you can play something your opponent can't deal with like tiger. Tiger has proved itself in hybrid hunter in the past if you want a 5 drop. Right now it's just better to not play a 5 drop. 5 is a odd slot, you want to squeeze in a hero power in these kind of decks and 5 mana cards make it inefficient most of the time.
You can't say that. Tiger and this serve very different purposes.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
They're both difficult to remove threats. I think it'll be played over stranglethorn tiger for sure. 7 health is not easy to remove and despite it's lower attack, your opponent wants to remove it.
Plus it scales better when buffed. It essentially has windfury-lite when it attacks a minion.
I'm glad someone else made this so I didn't have to.
They're completely different in terms of "difficult to remove". Stranglethorn is difficult because it's untargetable so it's a guaranteed 5 damage. Knuckles can be Executed, Shield Slammed, Sapped, Mulched, SW
ained, etc. It's essentially a vanilla 5 mana 3/7 and vanilla minions don't have a place in competitive meta. There is NO way it ever replaces the purpose of a Stranglethorn Tiger which is to be immune to Warrior/Druid/Rogue/Priest removal.Mobius and pet octopus
Member
They're completely different in terms of "difficult to remove". Stranglethorn is difficult because it's untargetable so it's a guaranteed 5 damage. Knuckles can be Executed, Shield Slammed, Sapped, Mulched, SW
It was never stated to be exactly as difficult. But my point remains in that 7 health is difficult to remove. Even a fireball doesn't cut it.
It's not accurate to call it a vanilla 3/7 though. Not only does it have beast, it has it's text which fits the hunter game plan no matter what archetype you're playing.
It's vanilla before it can attack. And fireball does indeed cut it with hero power.
But could axe flinger be viable in hunter if it was a beast? I'd say yes. Dunno if one mana more expensive Axe Flinger would.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Axe flinger sacrifices 2 stats for it's text and it's arguable that hunter actually might run it if it were a hunter card and a beast like knuckles is anyway.
I think it's a bad comparison, the stats just don't line up nor does the racial tag - let alone the class.
With hero power, meaning they're paying more for removal than you paid to put it out. It's not a really good answer nor would it necessarily cut it on curve.
Also this has beast tag before you attack with it. And your opponent may be forced into attacking it due to it's text, so even there the text plays a role in how the game plays. Lets say you're in a race, your opponent now might spend 7 attack on a minion it may not have otherwise done.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
That really doesn't consider how you use it or your opponent plays against it, making it a pretty reductive argument.
edit:
Does a vanilla minion deal face damage when it trades? Oh... it doesn't
There are so many good epics revealed so far though and I think there will be even more, those are going to make the set expensive still. Legendary ones are whatever. I like the paladin one and Kazakus, I'm guessing the other two gang heads should be ok too. that's like maybe 4-5 ones worth playing and that's standard for an expansion.
How is it going to impact? you deal with it as if it was a vanilla 3/7. Even if you leave it up it's not like you lose the game on the spot or anything, it's not a big deal. It's not like you're leaving a huge threat like Fandral or a high attack creature like highmane up. If you're playing a control deck and you have no board, its text doesn't even do anything! it's just so bad.
How is it going to impact? you deal with it as if it was a vanilla 3/7. Even if you leave it up it's not like you lose the game on the spot or anything, it's not a big deal. It's not like you're leaving a huge threat like Fandral or a high attack creature like highmane up. If you're playing a control deck and you have no board, its text doesn't even do anything! it's just so bad.
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
the stats on all of these new cards are freaking terrible. somebody literally needs to bring the blizz devs on a stage and go HOW IS ANY OF THIS BEATING MIDRANGE SHAMAN. There is nothing here at all.
The dragonfire spell is a direct hate card against midrange shaman.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Keep in mind, we're only talking about it's base stats in an expansion that has given you multiple ways in order to buff minions before it even hits the board. Evaluating it as a 3/7 is potentially just the wrong way to look at it and only shows the weakest state the minion is at. Unlike a stranglethorn tiger, this scales better due to it's text.
Also, would you call a trample minion in MTG just a vanilla minion? Because that is essentially what you're doing, except this is better than trample because it deals the full amount regardless of the health of the minion it attacks into.
I think it can very much be as devastating as letting highmane attack, because it's absolutely going to deal a lot of face damage if you permit it to. But unlike highmane it is going to impact the board while it deals face damage. Sometimes when you're behind you actually need to use highmane to attack other minions and you can't always count on it being able to hit face and force your opponent to trade. I've seen tons of hunters try to do that, without even realizing their move just lost them the game. And trading with highmane feels bad because you know you're missing all that damage to deal with minions instead. A slow card in hunter not producing face damage... is pretty bad when it costs 6 mana.
Aside from that, you're letting your opponent play out their strategy if you let the minion live a turn. If you're playing against a deck that chooses to not play a minion because it's "only a 3/7"... that is a win in itself. It's like saying... "well if I never kill the cairne it's just a vanilla 4/5 for 6 mana!", would you even wonder why you lost there? It only being a 3/7 doesn't even account for the fact that leaving it up a turn can easily make it a 5/9 from houndmaster.
Karsticles
Member
Wouldn't you rather have new cards to be excited about? lol
Mid range shamans and priests will love to farm my buff paladin after the expansion.
Many of the key components of that are rotating out in four months.
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
we dont know the timeline and four months is a long time.
Portugeezer
Member
It's a good card, doesn't feel legendary though, could easily be an epic.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It could be worse, face hunter could be top dog. There have been so many worse metas than this, tbf.
On the other hand they could always introduce replacements in Gadgetzan seeing as they have yet to introduce any Shaman cards.
Yeah good cheap cards. I'll probably only be buying 40 packs so I'll get 2 Legs at best. So I much prefer it when most of the card that end up good are easy to get or not too expensive to craft.
I'm not excited for this expansion at all anyway. I think I've lost faith in the HS team after ONiK.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
haven't the hunter buff cards been buff at random? So you're not only banking on having him in hand but also that it hits him randomly. You'd want to mulligan a 5 drop generally speaking as well.
And even then it's a vanilla creature until it hits a minion.
I'd call a trample minion in mtg that does nothing else draft chaff unless it's insanely statted. One of the most prolific magic cards is pretty much vanilla except its statline is super busted.
You have to compare it to other cards hunter could use straight up because the other cards can also be buffed.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It's also better than trample and has beast tag. Not only is it better than trample, because attackers choose where they want to attack it is way better than trample even if it was exactly what trample is. I think it's really weird that hunter gets a minion that can essentially attack past taunts and people want to call it vanilla.
But not every card scales the same way when buffed. Pack rat scales very well when buffed. So does Knuckles. I think knuckles starts out stronger too, relying less on buffs but excelling when he gets it and the trades line up.
- Status