Given that group has not actual power outside (or inside) an internet forum, that would be a colossal mislabeling of "authoritarian".
Which is sorta ironic.
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South Park raised a generation of trolls (The AV Club)
- Thread starter moffattron9000
- Start date
Which is sorta ironic.
This is a S+ Great post.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Kanhir
Member
Well done.
George Carlin had more self-awareness in the carbon cells of one of his pubes than the entirety of the alt-right combined.
hydrophilic attack
Member
This is what I've been saying for a while
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I guarantee "Jew" being used as a general insult and anti-Semitic humor in general would not be as prevalent and generally accepted without South Park. Kids love Cartman and kids take away all the wrong lessons from these adult comedy cartoons.
Eh, it's one of those things. You're either raised correctly or incorrectly and your habits based on what you're exposed to can vary greatly based on what kind of childhood you had. Not to keep using myself as an example but I've been watching SP since I was about 10 and I have not once in my life used "Jew" as an insult. Did your parents teach you to consider the feelings of others? Did they help you to understand context? The same can be said about most of adult media that kids are watching/experiencing.
Spieler Eins
Member
It must be alt-right because they dared to make fun of left extremists too (which kind of legitimates some of the jokes about them, ironically). But please ignore that whatever alt-right is has basically been the show's villain for 20 years. Also, notice how despite them shitting on "hippies" they never had any mean jokes about Obama? While Bush was portrayed as a complete idiot whose government was literally supported by Satan and Trump has now been constantly shit on for being a incompetent, inhuman, stupid fuck begging Clinton to win. Oh wait, I mean - they never made fun of Trump!?! (where does that narrative come from anyway, lol)
Maybe take your own fucking advice and actually read the article.
Audioboxer
Member
South Park really gets some hyperbole these days. I've almost watched every season, starting from being young and catching it on late night TV. Every season has arse blasted multiple things, from religion, to politics, to social beliefs, to music, to games, to culture, to good old toilet humour that has no reason to exist other than shock.
It's funny each time watching complete silence from some camps when they're not in the spotlight whilst it's the religious camp saying South Park is the 2nd coming of Satan, then they're quiet and it's someone politically getting wound up, then they're quiet and it's someone who's a music/sports/games fan who's in the spotlight getting wound up. That is South Park. It's often a litmus test for can the subject of the jokes handle it and move on accepting it's a cartoon TV show, not a University course. This doesn't mean you cannot critique TV shows/humour, but try and do so in a grounded way, not reaching for the sun.
Ultimately, if you do not like seeing yourself or your beliefs as the source of a joke, you stop watching South Park and have nothing to do with it. Writing articles that are border-lining on insane hyperbole whilst thinking this is a neat and easy way to blame all the ills of the world on a TV show is, in my opinion, a carelessly researched stance. It is, however, okay to laugh at times, even around serious things. No one sits down to watch South Park to honestly expect an education, just as you do not attend a stand-up show to get an education. It'll never be easy to prove this, but I think it's a safe bet countless people who act online like they're above all forms of humour and only deal in sanitised states of purity, often, at home, behind closed doors and in private kick back and laugh at some jokes. I refuse to believe anyone can truly go through life without ever laughing or finding it funny to hear some of the on the line jokes. What happens with many online is they feel pressure and an ever increasing need, never, absolutely never, to show that they're human and can both be progressive and have a laugh/bit of fun around serious topics. If you do not act super serious and morally on point 24/7 you're instantly denigrated to someone who is problematic. Such a stressful and ever increasingly unrealistic way to live your life. This has nothing to do with anyone being truly repugnant online before anyone jumps on that statement, but as I said earlier a normal everyday person being able to understand true humour from serious dialogue and being able to laugh every now and then. Even if it's at their own expense.
PC Principal and the Donald Trump election things being what the AVClub almost seem to be solely focussing on. With the usual throwing in of "alt-right" to try and get it to stick around South Park/Matt and Trey. About 50% of the article I'd say. This was 2 seasons. People weren't raised on 2 seasons. There are 18 seasons before these 2. If we ever reach season 30 people will still be hung up on these 2 seasons... And trying desperately to link the_donald if it hasn't been deleted to South Park. Let's not put some onus on the parents, extended family, friends and any failings of education systems for some of the behaviour of youth turning into adults, but as usual, video games, TV Shows, rap artists and so on.
It's funny each time watching complete silence from some camps when they're not in the spotlight whilst it's the religious camp saying South Park is the 2nd coming of Satan, then they're quiet and it's someone politically getting wound up, then they're quiet and it's someone who's a music/sports/games fan who's in the spotlight getting wound up. That is South Park. It's often a litmus test for can the subject of the jokes handle it and move on accepting it's a cartoon TV show, not a University course. This doesn't mean you cannot critique TV shows/humour, but try and do so in a grounded way, not reaching for the sun.
Ultimately, if you do not like seeing yourself or your beliefs as the source of a joke, you stop watching South Park and have nothing to do with it. Writing articles that are border-lining on insane hyperbole whilst thinking this is a neat and easy way to blame all the ills of the world on a TV show is, in my opinion, a carelessly researched stance. It is, however, okay to laugh at times, even around serious things. No one sits down to watch South Park to honestly expect an education, just as you do not attend a stand-up show to get an education. It'll never be easy to prove this, but I think it's a safe bet countless people who act online like they're above all forms of humour and only deal in sanitised states of purity, often, at home, behind closed doors and in private kick back and laugh at some jokes. I refuse to believe anyone can truly go through life without ever laughing or finding it funny to hear some of the on the line jokes. What happens with many online is they feel pressure and an ever increasing need, never, absolutely never, to show that they're human and can both be progressive and have a laugh/bit of fun around serious topics. If you do not act super serious and morally on point 24/7 you're instantly denigrated to someone who is problematic. Such a stressful and ever increasingly unrealistic way to live your life. This has nothing to do with anyone being truly repugnant online before anyone jumps on that statement, but as I said earlier a normal everyday person being able to understand true humour from serious dialogue and being able to laugh every now and then. Even if it's at their own expense.
PC Principal and the Donald Trump election things being what the AVClub almost seem to be solely focussing on. With the usual throwing in of "alt-right" to try and get it to stick around South Park/Matt and Trey. About 50% of the article I'd say. This was 2 seasons. People weren't raised on 2 seasons. There are 18 seasons before these 2. If we ever reach season 30 people will still be hung up on these 2 seasons... And trying desperately to link the_donald if it hasn't been deleted to South Park. Let's not put some onus on the parents, extended family, friends and any failings of education systems for some of the behaviour of youth turning into adults, but as usual, video games, TV Shows, rap artists and so on.
#notallsouthparkfans
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Wait what? Hold on, is this true?
Spieler Eins
Member
Yes. Anyone who can't get the basic gist that Cartman is bad can't be helped regardless of what shows they watch. I watched South Park early and knew that Stan/Kyle were mostly what their stance was (i.e. Cartman might be funny, but fuck anything he says really).
Isn't South Park snark as well?
It's not true. A lot of people think it's true, but it's not. At least there's no evidence to suggest it. People who use the Manbearpig episode as evidence for this didn't get the (albeit dumb)joke in that episode. Others might use "Two Days Before the Day After Tomorrow" as evidence but that doesn't point to this conclusion about Stone and Parker either.
Kain-Nosgoth
Member
i read the article, i was more talking about people in this thread criticizing the show without even watching it! I wasn't clear enough about that and that's on me, should have quoted someone instead
And you can tell who has and hasn't seen recent South Park as well.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I also grew up loving South Park. And I turned out fine. But I'm not gonna use myself as a barometer for the rest of the world and all the kids that shout Jew as an insult on Xbox live. Nor is South Park the sole reason and inventor of alt right trolls. But you're deluding yourself if you're saying South Park did not normalize anti-Semitic rhetoric. Why do you think no one batted an eye when PewDiePie built his empire off of Jewish jokes? Why people rushed to his defense saying he was just joking about the "Kill all Jews" sign? It's because South Park taught them that Jews are okay to insult. It's okay to make jokes at their expense!
I'm sorry but I do not believe there are that many anti-Semitic parents out there who teach their kids to use Jew as an insult when they are saying it in Cartmans voice.
Soooo, basically the article is right?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Fair point.
Is that inaccurate? Snark (and whatnot) is a very effective tool for shutting down discussion, isn't it? Trolls/Alt-Right employ it all the time. Unless I've misunderstood the term, shutting down discussion is quite an important characteristic of authoritarianism.
Well, as I said, I'm using the term a little liberally (pun intended), but I'd argue that there are power relationships everywhere, including within a humble internet discussion.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Did the writer ever even consider that SP is really heavily liberal and that you'd need to be completely blind to not see it?
If some people watching it managed to take it as reason to go alt right they're a lost cause anyway.
If some people watching it managed to take it as reason to go alt right they're a lost cause anyway.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
SP: The left are such insufferable idiots because they care about things.
Left: That's a stupid opinion.
SP: Ha, see. Look at them legitimize those jokes by caring about things.
I wonder why people are connecting trolling with south park...
Anyhow, they always were and will always be "both sides" no matter what either side does. It's just that the stuff you care about most will always hit the hardest. Trump fans don't care that much about most of the criticisms toward trump because they've already marginalized those things in their heads, while they see the Hillary critiques as super hard hitting, and the same visa-versa.
That's how I see it. For me current trends and Trump are the clear result of these social trends.
Not everyone's like this of course but a sizeable and worrying percentage of that demographic are.
Yeah. And that GAF thread on that Pewdiepie subject also had some defending the "joke", saying things like how it's no different from South Park or other shock comedians. That thread was just long and tiring with that stuff.
Maybe in America? In Europe there's more to being liberal than wanting weed legalised.
The sad part is that television is used by some parents to raise their kids. What is required for parents is to advice and tell their children of the negative implications of behaving like the terrible/bad kids in South Park. It was mentioned earlier but I - too - noticed there were 2 crowds of people enjoying South Park when I was watching the show growing up. One crowd was the one who recognised it as satire while the other crowd took it literally for what it was. South Park is not the issue here. If your child is watching the show without being told/warned that it isn't an appropriate representation of what real-life society is then you - as a parent/carer - aren't doing your job. It's all about the accompanying context. You can watch and enjoy South Park knowing full well that what Eric Cartman says and does is terrible because he is an asshole kid and he does get his come-uppins as a result. If you take the show for what it is it is really good satire. And let's be honest, we all knew a real Eric Cartman in our lives and they were a joke! a person that nobody liked who only said terrible things to get a reaction. Who wanted to be that kinda person? However, I too knew people who watched South Park and almost saw Cartman as a role model. They'd copy his catch phrases and controversial stances on issues. Say inappropriate things and just act like a spoiled kid. As a result, they'd get in trouble and instead of the parents warning their kids about copying/misinterpreting Cartman on South Park, they go and blame the show for its content...even though it was never intended for kids in the first time.
You see, I learned something today. One can argue that we have a generation raised on a politically incorrect show like South Park which is unfortunate and - as a result - we got unapologetic adults who go out and offend people. But the thing is, there's also numerous other people who are watching the exact same show and are incredibly kind, decent people. Look at how many people watch the show and see its relevance for what it is. It evolved into more than a show about fart jokes. It brought forward discussion about subjects that no other show would dare approach.
Not to draw comparisons but this is not just exclusive to South Park. It's goes with other shows, video games, books. Look, if a child is watching Tom and Jerry without being warned by a parent about the dangerous implications of jumping of a high-raised house or lighting someone on fire then you're just a fucking terrible parent.
Critique = policing. There's a difference in even the somewhat moderate right's hysteria towards books given to somewhat young school kids that handle sexuality (no matter if it's hetero or homo) & wanting to burn/ban them and left's critique of objectifying women.
But in general South Park respects the Jewish faith and its members. They satirize the stereotypes to make the stereotypes completely absurd. I can't speak to PewDiePie because I've never seen his show but is the context of his jokes similar in that way?
If you're suggesting the attitude required for true antisemitism sentiment was popularized by South Park I'd say you're dead wrong. A villainous character like Cartman using Jew as an insult in itself is not going to do anything besides make it known that there are people out there who feel the way Cartman does.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Watch the last 3 seasons and tell me they aren't liberal. The entire premise is to use satire to point out fucked up shit in the world, like most comedic avenues. I'm not American either.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Most kids who watch South Park don't get any of the satire or subtext of South Park. They watch it to hear Cartman scream obscenities, alien anal probe orgies, and singing dancing poos. They might think they feel smart because there's a political bend to it. But they don't fucking know who Al Gore really is.
Spieler Eins
Member
For "unexpected" anti-trump content from certain creators online I've seen a lot of comments in the vein of "that's why I stopped watching South Park, why is everyone calling me stupid".
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I think you're out of touch if you think people actually hate Cartman. Kids fucking love Cartman. They think he's hilarious.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
And I watched it as a kid. I knew not to say shit I heard on there because it's purpose is to offend. As the show grew up so do did I.
I knew lots of kids who grew up watching it too. Blame the parents for not raising their kids right rather than the creators of a show is my view.
OK. I don't like what you're saying.
(loud crack)
(seismic wave)
(camera tracking shot through the window and towards you; you fill the frame as wind blows your hair and clothes backward)
You are now forced to stop saying it anywhere else.
This is awesome.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
You might say they are libertarian, or radical centrists, but they are certainly not liberal.
Name me one episode that fits the word liberal but not libertarian.
I think Cartman is hilarious too! But I never used Jew as an insult because it's always been the wrong thing to do. What is the difference between me and those kids?
Cartman is a ridiculous character who is meant to take bad, lazy, and stupid views to the extreme. It's his whole shtick.
entremet
Member
The article mentions this but that never developed into a voting bloc.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Yup. I was 14 when the show started, and while like many young men, I went through a phase of being a provocative douchebag, it never had anything to do with South Park. And my oldest daughter, now 13, fucking loves South Park, but is pretty damn outspoken about her notions of justice in the world, and it sure as shit doesn't reflect the cynicism of the show.
As far as I remember from back in the day, Kenny and Cartman were always the most popular. Before memes became memes, there was Kenny and that famous "Oh my God! They killed Kenny!" line I heard everywhere as a kid and teen. Cartman being the a-hole that he is, also was fairly popular for being an a-hole and plenty found him to be funny because of the things he could get away with saying and the things that would happen to him.
Cartman has a strong personality in the show and things happen to him a lot so of course people are going to gravitate to him.
Cartman has a strong personality in the show and things happen to him a lot so of course people are going to gravitate to him.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
The whole last season was about how trolling is no joke. Liberal, Centrist or libertarian the message is always there in the episode particularly in modern ones. It may be satire but it's still there.
The episode of South Park that first stood out to me is Bloody Mary, from 2005, in which Randy develops a drinking problem. The episode posits that not only is alcoholism not a disease but that alcoholics who abstain from drinking are still having their lives controlled by alcohol and should continue to drink in moderation. This wasn't in a "Oh, isn't Randy being silly?" way, it was in a "Here's Stan on his soap box dropping some truth in a serious monologue" way. It was the most appalling bullshit.
South Park may be "liberal" but that doesn't mean it hasn't encouraged dangerous attitudes.
South Park may be "liberal" but that doesn't mean it hasn't encouraged dangerous attitudes.
That's awesome.
Clearly these attitudes are instilled into kids by their parents. Parents who don't contextualize these things to their kids or, god forbid, are actually horrible people themselves, are going to raise rotten kids who lash out against diversity and the ideals of brotherly love regardless of the media they watch.
I think giving South Park responsibility for our current culture is giving them far more credit than they deserve.
What's more interesting to me is that I heard an interview with Trey Parker about a month ago, saying that they know it's only a matter of time before the liberal/PC brigade puts their sights on them. He was saying he can't believe they've flown under the radar for so long and he knows their time will be up soon and him and Matt will just go back to Colorado and leave Hollywood behind.
This thread seems to be evidence that he may not be off base.
What's more interesting to me is that I heard an interview with Trey Parker about a month ago, saying that they know it's only a matter of time before the liberal/PC brigade puts their sights on them. He was saying he can't believe they've flown under the radar for so long and he knows their time will be up soon and him and Matt will just go back to Colorado and leave Hollywood behind.
This thread seems to be evidence that he may not be off base.
Spieler Eins
Member
Sacha Baron Cohen?
They might ape certain lines they took from South Park, but a single show certainly couldn't have turned or raised them into dumb punks. Without South Park, they would still act like goons and quote other material, they clearly have other problems for behaving like that. This reminds me of back in the day, when Counter Strike or something was blamed for massacres around here. As if a single piece of media could shape a person in such extremes.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
#notallsouthparkfans
I had a bunch of friends who threw around Jew as an insult and considered it to be a harmless non-racist jab. Some of them went through a lot of bullying in school growing up due to their race/ethnicity and it kind of blew my mind. It wasn't 100% the fault of Southpark, but it normalised the behaviour. They took away that anything can be a joke whilst divorcing the fact if somebody said a similar thing to them it would hurt them.
I had a bunch of friends who threw around Jew as an insult and considered it to be a harmless non-racist jab. Some of them went through a lot of bullying in school growing up due to their race/ethnicity and it kind of blew my mind. It wasn't 100% the fault of Southpark, but it normalised the behaviour. They took away that anything can be a joke whilst divorcing the fact if somebody said a similar thing to them it would hurt them.
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