davidwhangchoi
Member
Don't forget Rikishi
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WWE Raw Ratings: Viewership Hits Record Low
- Thread starter DMczaf
- Start date
Master_Funk
Member
I,d rather see jinder than one more day of freakin' Randy Orton as champ.
Basileus777
Member
Huh? The highest peak of wrestling was an era known for audiences cheering heels and anti-hero faces that acted like heels. The shows just weren't booked in a way that completely ignored audience reaction.
Show's way too long. That's the #1 problem.
Remember when wrestlers used to look into the camera and talk about hitting their signature moves on people? It seems like the announcers are the only ones who ever call out the moves. Shit-talking used to be way better too. God forbid anything catches on the announcers run it straight into the ground. Imagine Austin's character with Cole and JBL hard-selling it to the crowd.
Cole: He calls it Austin 3:16 and it says he just kicked his opponent's butt!
JBL: That's right Michael! He likes giving people Stone Cold Stunners and drinking Steveweisers! HAHA! He's having fun out there tonight!
It's like having your teacher read rap lyrics.
Remember when wrestlers used to look into the camera and talk about hitting their signature moves on people? It seems like the announcers are the only ones who ever call out the moves. Shit-talking used to be way better too. God forbid anything catches on the announcers run it straight into the ground. Imagine Austin's character with Cole and JBL hard-selling it to the crowd.
Cole: He calls it Austin 3:16 and it says he just kicked his opponent's butt!
JBL: That's right Michael! He likes giving people Stone Cold Stunners and drinking Steveweisers! HAHA! He's having fun out there tonight!
It's like having your teacher read rap lyrics.
I DID IT FOR THE ROCK
PHOENIXZERO
Member
You know, a lot of us have been looking at the ratings the wrong way and it's always bothered me that we had the rating number but rarely if ever would we get the actual total viewership count. I've known for a long time that 1 point didn't equal 1 million viewers on cable but I forgot just how it was calculated and of course that number is calculated differently today, for example here's Raw's ratings from November 15th 1999 from alt.pro-wrestling.wwf with the quarter hour breakdowns which we use to get.
November 15 Ratings Households
9:00-9:15 5.9 4,562,000
9:15-9:30 6.3 4,885,000
9:30-9:45 6.7 5,134,000
9:45-10:00 6.1 4,728,000
10:00-10:15 6.4 4,918,000
10:15-10:30 6.1 4,691,000
10:30-10:45 6.1 4,672,000
10:45-11:00 6.0 4,653,000
11:00-11:07 6.4 4,912,000
Hour 1 6.3 4,827,000
Hour 2 6.2 4,750,000
Average 6.3 4,788,500
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.pro-wrestling.wwf/vnWDY-7Htac
Of course this is also when WCW was still around and pulling a lot of people on its own (never mind all the switching back and forth) but still WWE's viewership numbers were never as high as we make it out to be during the AE. If WWE was getting 6's today their viewership numbers would be way beyond what they were during the AE. Of course if you want to talk about live event attendance that's still way down from where it was during the Attitude Era but it's been worse and it's better now than it was from mid-2002 to the end of 2006. I should look for another source with more up to date info but they've been average around 6,000 IIRC and maybe doing more aggressive international touring (?) I can't remember, I did have another but I lost it and can't find it, eh.
http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com/2013/11/annual-wwf-attendance-1994-2012.html
November 15 Ratings Households
9:00-9:15 5.9 4,562,000
9:15-9:30 6.3 4,885,000
9:30-9:45 6.7 5,134,000
9:45-10:00 6.1 4,728,000
10:00-10:15 6.4 4,918,000
10:15-10:30 6.1 4,691,000
10:30-10:45 6.1 4,672,000
10:45-11:00 6.0 4,653,000
11:00-11:07 6.4 4,912,000
Hour 1 6.3 4,827,000
Hour 2 6.2 4,750,000
Average 6.3 4,788,500
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.pro-wrestling.wwf/vnWDY-7Htac
Of course this is also when WCW was still around and pulling a lot of people on its own (never mind all the switching back and forth) but still WWE's viewership numbers were never as high as we make it out to be during the AE. If WWE was getting 6's today their viewership numbers would be way beyond what they were during the AE. Of course if you want to talk about live event attendance that's still way down from where it was during the Attitude Era but it's been worse and it's better now than it was from mid-2002 to the end of 2006. I should look for another source with more up to date info but they've been average around 6,000 IIRC and maybe doing more aggressive international touring (?) I can't remember, I did have another but I lost it and can't find it, eh.
http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com/2013/11/annual-wwf-attendance-1994-2012.html
Bruce Springsteen
Member
good thing you only speak for yourself
I think more than anything, this proves how considerable wrestling has declined in viewership. There's more people with sets and cable than they did in '99. WCW was still hitting 4's in this year and MNF was huge, hitting in the mid teens. In 2000, Smackdown is on UPN/CW hitting high 4's and 5's every week, meanwhile Raw (hits 7's a handful of times that year) goes to TNN and still maintains those marks.
The percentage of viewership has drastically gone down and the fact they're nearing 2m viewers in fucking May is inexcusable. It's excuse after excuse. There is zero competition and they can buy out any wrestler, past or present, they want (until they run them out i.e. Batista and CM Punk) and yet there's these results.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Pretty much. They're doing this to themselves with some of the most astonishingly bad booking I've ever seen and having everyone sound like robots singing off the same hymn sheet with those scripted interviews.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Again though each ratings point means more viewers today due to that, a 4.0 and a 7.0 did not mean WCW had four million viewers and Raw had seven million viewers, you also can't compare rating points for cable and broadcast because they're calculated differently and the rating points back then compared to today is as as well. However yeah there's more potential viewers WWE's lack of growth and flat out erosion in that area as their audience is getting older and not being offset by attracting new, a new younger audience to make up for it is something they seem strongly in denial about. WWE just isn't *cool* anymore to pull in kids and retain them as they grow into adults it's basically like the late 80s early 90s all over again except WWE is now the only game in town and a money making machine despite themselves, if Vince had this place back in the "New Generation" era he probably wouldn't have felt any pressure then to change direction either.
On the other hand we have this viewership myth that has built up with the heyday of the Attitude Era and the MNW that Raw was routinely doing six to eight million viewers a week when in reality the audience wasn't really that big. On the flip side you had more people who were eager and willing to spend money to go to shows which is why they were averaging crowd attendance figures above 10,000 people from 1998 to 2001, it was still an event to got to a WWE live event, now it's pretty much the core and maybe some families taking their kids to see the people they follow on social media.
WWE getting a 7 today would mean doing well above what WCW and WWE did combined back then and I think that's unrealistic. WWE also never went above a 6.0 after moving to TNN/Spike despite having a viewership bump due to rating recalculation and people who would flip back and forth staying on Raw as most of WCW's core fan base just stopped watching as I think is well established. As I posted in my last post, Raw doing a 6.3 (average of the two hours) back in late 1999 meant an average of 4,788,500 viewers, WCW on the same night did around half that. Last time Raw broke five million viewers was the Raw after WrestleMania in 2015 that did 5.4 million viewers and that gave them a rating of 3.67. This past Raw after WM couldn't even break four million. I wish I could find more actual viewership numbers (not the rating/percentage) for back then.
Raw isn't *must see* programming and hasn't been for years and any time there's anything remotely compelling up against it people jump over to it because they know nothing on Raw matters.
I should've held off on this until I got some sleep, this post is kind of a rambling, repetitive mess with how much back and forth/rewrites I did.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Are arenas still sold out for wrestling? By the odd chance I turn wrestling on the audience looks tiny.
Keyser Soze
Member
WWE still sells out many places, but it largly depends on the location. They recently almost sold out an arena for a PPV in Chicago without announcing a card. And sales only slowed down when the (terrible) card was announced.
No change with no NBA competition. LOL
Also the main event was basically their two top babyfaces in the main event. No one gave a FUCK.
So what's the excuse this week?
slightconfuse
Banned
Anthony start the clock
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
WWE, this is your life.
Violence Jack
Member
That's higher than I expected. I would've thought everyone bailed during that Alexa Bliss segment.
I'm shocked that two bland as fuck babyfaces facing off in the main event couldn't draw ratings. Shocked I tell you.
At least Lucha Underground is back tonight.
HazySaiyan
Banned
Host Samurai
Member
I wonder if this has to do with the obvious plans for Roman to ME Mania for the 4th time and beat Brock for the title.
I bailed after that segment .. the writing was awful and puts Bliss (decent heel champion) at the risk of being written off by fans.
oh shit youre right, i read something wrong.
Yeah, unless the Finals are a blowout game 5 is going to be huge
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Please save us Russo
Russo hasn't been able to save anything in almost 20 years
More to do with the fact that nothing ever happens on an episode of Raw or Smackdown. Even if you like Roman Reigns and love the idea of him in the main event, there's really no reason to watch week to week.
Mechanized
Member
I'm assuming he meant saving us by way of killing WWE once and for all.
HashtagLapsed
Member
I know that if it ends up confirmed that Russo is back on creative Ill be done with WWE, at least.
UberTag
Member
It's hard to get excited for any of Brock's title defenses when you know he's just going to win so he can make Roman look strong during a bloated 7-hour Part-Timer Mania match and then hold his arm up and proclaim how great he is. Especially when you know they've already earmarked Roman to retire Brock, Cena, The Rock and the rest of his Shield buddies because he's the greatest of all-time.
At best we may see the title hot potato back and forth between him and someone like Balor but shit like that requires a 3-match program due to that bullshit rematch clause nonsense.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
For reference here's how Raw performed WITH the NBA conference finals on Memorial Day last year.
That near 20% drop with less competition...
That near 20% drop with less competition...
The Faceless Master
Member
it's going 5 games?
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Let's look at ratings when he was writing for TNA and the 200,000 they draw today
Bruh
It's going 7 games, every game to overtime. Lebron averaging a triple double.
Dental Plan
Member
That Bayley segment on RAW was awful. I couldn't believe how bad it was. Looks like the ratings reflect it, I checked out right when it happened.
Let also looks at the reason why they left spike in the first place.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
On the TV deal front, NBCU/USA is paying WWE somewhere between $500,000 to $600,000 per hour, how much do they pay for a show like Colony or Mr. Robot which are both produced under the same umbrella as their parent company? There's not really anywhere else they could get ~260 hours of new (regardless of quality) programming a year even as WWE's ratings slide. They'd probably need more than just a couple hits to make up for it.
The problem I think when it comes to negotiation is to justify a sizable enough increase from USA that will keep shareholders happy. Remember when Vince's boasting blew up in WWE's faces with the 2014 deal? I still think Vince will offer Smackdown going three hours in an attempt to get more money, that seems like a likely negotiation so then Smackdown will eventually become just as much of a slog to get though.
EDIT: Oh and look at the demo drops... The only demo that's holding even remotely steady or at least not falling as much as the others is the 50+ one.
The problem I think when it comes to negotiation is to justify a sizable enough increase from USA that will keep shareholders happy. Remember when Vince's boasting blew up in WWE's faces with the 2014 deal? I still think Vince will offer Smackdown going three hours in an attempt to get more money, that seems like a likely negotiation so then Smackdown will eventually become just as much of a slog to get though.
EDIT: Oh and look at the demo drops... The only demo that's holding even remotely steady or at least not falling as much as the others is the 50+ one.
That's what I call the Ultimate Thrill Ride!
Host Samurai
Member
With ratings down, how's the revenue?
Revenue has increased due to escalators in USA's contract with them
Every year ratings drop significantly, but every year their contract pays them significantly more.
tl;dr : USA played themselves.
The lack of NBA playoffs did not prove to be much of a benefit for Raw's ratings on Monday night as the show did 2.61 million viewers, identical to the previous week when going against the playoffs.
While Memorial Day and the NHL playoffs did hurt the number, anything below 2.85 million should have been considered a disappointment. Still, because the news stations weren't broadcasting key programming and the NHL was on NBC rather than cable, Raw was the most-watched show on cable, a spot it hasn't had in a long time.
The Stanley Cup finals did 4.85 million viewers.
Memorial Day traditionally hurts the rating by only 40,000 to 50,000 viewers, so it's a factor, but not nearly a factor to where it ties a record low. In theory, next week should be up the day after a Raw PPV, although the split crew PPVs have not been a boon to next-day ratings as it used to be.
The June 12th Raw, unless the return of Brock Lesnar is gigantic, should be the lowest rated Raw of the modern era outside of football season unless the NBA playoffs are a four-game sweep, since it goes on against game five.
The other key is Memorial Day traditionally means viewers come in later, so the second hour is always bigger than the first, but this show's second hour actually dropped.
The three hours were:
8 p.m. 2.69 million viewers
9 p.m. 2.68 million viewers
10 p.m. 2.47 million viewers
Here's a chart from Paul Fontaine that looks at Raw ratings in 2017 and compares them to last year. The year-over-year declines in the last month have been the worst of the entire year:
While Memorial Day and the NHL playoffs did hurt the number, anything below 2.85 million should have been considered a disappointment. Still, because the news stations weren't broadcasting key programming and the NHL was on NBC rather than cable, Raw was the most-watched show on cable, a spot it hasn't had in a long time.
The Stanley Cup finals did 4.85 million viewers.
Memorial Day traditionally hurts the rating by only 40,000 to 50,000 viewers, so it's a factor, but not nearly a factor to where it ties a record low. In theory, next week should be up the day after a Raw PPV, although the split crew PPVs have not been a boon to next-day ratings as it used to be.
The June 12th Raw, unless the return of Brock Lesnar is gigantic, should be the lowest rated Raw of the modern era outside of football season unless the NBA playoffs are a four-game sweep, since it goes on against game five.
The other key is Memorial Day traditionally means viewers come in later, so the second hour is always bigger than the first, but this show's second hour actually dropped.
The three hours were:
8 p.m. 2.69 million viewers
9 p.m. 2.68 million viewers
10 p.m. 2.47 million viewers
Here's a chart from Paul Fontaine that looks at Raw ratings in 2017 and compares them to last year. The year-over-year declines in the last month have been the worst of the entire year:
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Meltz said only ONE episode of nitro ever did a worse rating then Monday's raw.
Broken Hardy's couldn't save TNA.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
And apparently Hardy's couldn't bother copy writing their own gimmick also
from what I remember, someone pointed out that the reason WWE would be fine paying TNA for the gimmick is if they went too hard on the Hardy's owning it, then wrestlers would have a case for their WWE gimmicks being theirs too...
ONE POINT SEVEN 5
HOLY FUCKING SHIT
I always confuse ratings and viewers.
So what's the record? Are we at TNA numbers?