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Dice 2013: Thatgamecompany was bankrupt when they shipped Journey

G

Gannd

Banned
I don't want to discount that e-mail they received. I think it's great that the game helped that girl with her father's passing. I just don't get it. I think this is a game that is so shallow and lacking in everything. It lacks gameplay, it lacks story and it lacks meaning so people in our mind build it up and put it there for them.
 
fvng

fvng

Member
jCyi2R5FP8lO5.jpg
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That Jenova Chen man. I remember reading about some Japanese businessman that broke into tears when he was done playing Jenova's game 'cloud'
 
C

Chuck Norris

Banned
Gannd said:
I don't want to discount that e-mail they received. I think it's great that the game helped that girl with her father's passing. I just don't get it. I think this is a game that is so shallow and lacking in everything. It lacks gameplay, it lacks story and it lacks meaning so people in our mind build it up and put it there for them.
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No it does not lack meaning. Just because you can't perceive it, doesn't mean it lacks meaning.
 
B

BlackLagoon

Member
Nibel said:
For real?

SSM is like Sony's go-to studio if shit goes wrong
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Well, it's more SSM has an entire division built up around supporting external projects, I guess letting smaller developers try their hand at making technically accomplished games without having to bulk up and put as many engineers on the payroll. Thatgamecompany was part of their "incubation program", same as Superbot, starting out located inside SSM, until they're ready to move into their own space, so the connection was always there.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Gannd said:
It lacks gameplay, it lacks story and it lacks meaning so people in our mind build it up and put it there for them.
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And to spin it positively:
"It seems that perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away"
 
N

Nibel

Member
BlackLagoon said:
Well, it's more SSM has an entire division built up around supporting external projects, I guess letting smaller developers try their hand at making technically accomplished games without having to bulk up and put as many engineers on the payroll. Thatgamecompany was part of their "incubation program", same as Superbot, starting out located inside SSM, until they're ready to move into their own space, so the connection was always there.
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Thanks for the insight :)

Didn't know about that
 
H

Huff

Banned
fvng said:
Gotta respective business hustle.

I still don't see Shadow Complex on Steam




It's amazing that Sony dropped the ball on acquiring them. Or maybe TGC resisted their advances.
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I think rumor was some people wanted to be purchased, some didn't. People ended up leaving. Dunno where they went. Maybe to Sony?
 
fvng

fvng

Member
funkystudent said:
EXACTLY.

SCEA must really just be treating 2nd party partners like crap.
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They probably compensated a flat fee to produce the game, and at some point went over budget. There's no way to tell at this point, though I wouldn't start pointing fingers and assigning blame without all the details

Huff said:
I think rumor was some people wanted to be purchased, some didn't. People ended up leaving. Dunno where they went. Maybe to Sony?
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That's sad. I hate when talent splits up like that. Especially if they had a solid working dynamic/relationship
 
J

JehutyRunner

Banned
benny_a said:
Did that also come out of DICE or where is that information from?
I know that SSM helped out, but I just assumed it was like with The Unfinished Swan where they had one dedicated person plus random people helping out over the project's lifecycle.
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It's absolutely well known for a long time. Sony Santa Monica helped out on Flow, Flower and Journey as a co-developer, whilst Thatgamecompany was incubated into SSM's office.

Giant Sparrow got the same deal with its publishing deal with Sony for The Unfinished Swan and its two upcoming games.
 
K

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
funkystudent said:
EXACTLY.


SCEA must real be treating there 2nd party partners like crap.
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they were bankrupt when they shipped journey. journey went on to become the best selling psn game, having a retail sku, even a artbook, and winning countless awards. thatgamecompany is still alive, after the sony contract people just left to other places. sony funded 3 games supposedly, and if the previous two games and the funding left TGC with 0 cash when they shipped journey, i don't think they're that bad right now after journey. at least the tweet doesn't say anything about it.

wikipedia quote:
The company's latest project is Journey, which was released on March 13, 2012. It is the final game in Thatgamecompany's three-game contract with Sony, and was developed by a team of fourteen. This team does not include Santiago, who, in order to concentrate on her role as the company's president, was replaced as a producer by Robin Hunicke. The game was in development for three years, despite originally being expected to take one, and the development team faced several problems in expanding the company from seven employees as they began the game to eighteen, as well as risking running out of money. Upon release, the game achieved both critical and commercial success. It became the fastest-selling game to date on PlayStation Store in both North America and Europe. After the game was released, as the company began work on another project, several employees left for other opportunities. Santiago left the company to pursue other, unnamed ventures, designer Chris Bell left to form his own studio The Willderness, while Hunicke resigned to work at Tiny Speck. The company, with its contract with Sony complete, raised 4.07€ ($5.5) million in venture capitalist funding, which they hope to use to develop future games for multiple platforms without influences by publishers.
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B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
JehutyRunner said:
It's absolutely well known for a long time. Sony Santa Monica helped out on Flow, Flower and Journey as a co-developer, whilst Thatgamecompany was incubated into SSM's office.

Giant Sparrow got the same deal with its publishing deal with Sony for The Unfinished Swan and its two upcoming games.
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The question is not whether they were a co-developer. That part is evident from playing the game because of the splash screen when you start it up.

The Giant Sparrow people have quantified how much support they've gotten, hence my question.
 
T

TimeEffect

Member
Wow. What the hell?

Does that say anything about TGC ever signing with Sony exclusively?

Edit: Whoops,didnt read bolded. I'm very surprised to hear this, but seems Sony granted them an extra year?
 
A

Alchemy

Member
Small team that was likely communicating verbally the entire process and iterating on the game like crazy didn't bother keeping up to date documentation. Not surprising.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
TimeEffect said:
Wow. What the hell?

Does that say anything about TGC ever signing with Sony exclusively?
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They are going multiplatform and are hoping to use the proceeds from Journey to be free from publisher influence.

Edit: Maybe not multiplat but:
"Right now we are very much exploring ways to bring our games to a bigger audience, beyond just PlayStation," Journey developer Jenova Chen told Push Square.
 
C

Chakan

Member
So, basically, the employees left the company and some of those that remained decided to leave as well to develop iOS games and after that Sta Monica came and helped the remaining staff to finish Journey.

Thats some fucked up stuff.
 
T

TimeEffect

Member
benny_a said:
They are going multiplatform and are hoping to use the proceeds from Journey to be free from publisher influence.

Edit: Maybe not multiplat but:
"Right now we are very much exploring ways to bring our games to a bigger audience, beyond just PlayStation," Journey developer Jenova Chen told Push Square.
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I talk to Jenova sometimes, I think I may know what he's doing, but would rather not say :D

Regardless, I am excited for them, Sony must be hurting to have them go multiplat after Journey's monumental success
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Chakan said:
So, basically, the employees left the company and some of those that remained decided to leave as well to develop iOS games and after that Sta Monica came and helped the remaining staff to finish Journey.

Thats some fucked up stuff.
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I'm very sure you're misremembering the chronology here.

Key members left after Journey's launch.
Bell, Nesky almost immediately.
Santiago and Hunicke a little over a week after that.
 
D

dragonelite

Member
Clear said:
Speaking of MS and Indie-games, kinda surprised them discontinuing XNA hasn't gotten more coverage; evidently no Indies on the new XBox.

And as for TGC being bankrupt at ship-time... nothing strange about it. When a team is "funded" its typically an advance on royalties that won't be recouped until months after release. Its a fixed sum to cover costs on the project, not a stipend to keep the contractor afloat - this is why there are so many layoffs/closures shortly after shipping.

Without a paying project to maintain continuity, you have all the burn-rate expenses built up over the course of development and no income to cover it.
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Could go through WinRT development even gives devs options for C++.
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
CrunchinJelly said:
Creatively or financially?
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I dont get it, sorry. They only made Flow and Flower before Journey. Both those games are unique, what is wrong with the creativety in those games? I dont like to be a party pooper on a joke, but i'm honestly wondering about it, so i had to ask.
 
T

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
That's a very eloquent 15 year old. That email brought a tear to my eye. Amazing that a game can do that to someone.
 
V

Vhalyar

Member
Seems to be the exact same presentation they did at GDC Europe 2012. It was weird how they admitted to feeding Sony lies about their milestone roadmap and release date(s), knowing full well none of them were realistic or even outright possible. They banked on Sony being generous and forgiving.
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
JohnnySasaki86 said:
Nothing. Flower was totally different from flow IMO.
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It caught my attention since so many commented on it, so i was honestly wondering what i was missing in what was said :) There is one thing to find the games enjoyable or not, that is 100% subjective, but to question if those games arent creatively made? I dont know about that. I see the games as very unique and creative at least. I guess this can be somewhat subjective as well though.
 
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