Support NeoGAF

WaterAstro · Nov 21, 2017

It's like they casted the complete opposite of what the character should be like from the comics for Flash and Aquaman. It was pretty bad, and all over the place. The finale wasn't an epic closure.

Superman just came in and they won

, the end.

Martinski43 · Nov 21, 2017

Its quite bad news when Justice league opens below man of steel, suicide squad etcetera .. movie bombed big time on a $300 mill budget.

$300 million and the CGI looks like cartoons.. hm

llien · Nov 21, 2017

Soo... how does one report a post, pretty please?

tkscz · Nov 21, 2017

WaterAstro said:
It's like they casted the complete opposite of what the character should be like from the comics for Flash and Aquaman. It was pretty bad, and all over the place. The finale wasn't an epic closure.

Superman just came in and they won

, the end.

To me that was the best part. I hate when

someone is introduced as a powerful force of nature, but then starts to weaken with everyone else. There was no point in saving that character or building them up if they aren't just going to own everything. Hulk had this issue for me in both Avenger movies, but the first one especially. Don't sit there and tell me how strong he is. Don't have him come in a one punch one of the giant worms and then have him being overwhelmed. At that point he should've been there the entire time and with little build up.

WaterAstro · Nov 21, 2017

tkscz said:
To me that was the best part. I hate when

someone is introduced as a powerful force of nature, but then starts to weaken with everyone else. There was no point in saving that character or building them up if they aren't just going to own everything. Hulk had this issue for me in both Avenger movies, but the first one especially. Don't sit there and tell me how strong he is. Don't have him come in a one punch one of the giant worms and then have him being overwhelmed. At that point he should've been there the entire time and with little build up.

Not sure how the best part just makes the climax feel trivial.

They built up Steppenwolf to be an incredibly powerful antagonist, even killing a Green Lantern and almost destroying the world, then he loses in a few hits.

Setsuna · Nov 21, 2017

llien said:
Understandable, but then, how do you explain critics giving Age of Ultron 75%? (audience score is on par, AoU's is actually a bit lower)

Rotten Tomatoes is weird. Ie. Matthew Lickona gave Age of ultron a 2/5 and Justice League a 1/5, and yet somehow Age of Ultron is fresh?

autumnleaf · Nov 21, 2017

WaterAstro said:
Not sure how the best part just makes the climax feel trivial.

They built up Steppenwolf to be an incredibly powerful antagonist, even killing a Green Lantern and almost destroying the world, then he loses in a few hits.

Superman almost ruined the final battle. He instantly made Wonder Woman, Flash and Aquaman look useless and the idea of a League redundant. Not only did he have time to go rescue civilans with Flash (and rescue more of them) he returned in time to quip that Aquaman and Wonder Woman were still having trouble with Steppenwolf and casually beat him too without breaking a sweat (and THEN helped Cyborg with his job). What is the point in a Justice League when Superman can do everything on his own better than everyone else can do working together? Wonder Woman should be his equal but she was clearly put in her place when Superman returned.

Alx · Nov 21, 2017

autumnleaf said:
What is the point in a Justice League when Superman can do everything on his own better than everyone else can do working together?

That's the major flaw with the concept of the Justice League to begin with (not only the movie one).

tkscz · Nov 21, 2017

WaterAstro said:
Not sure how the best part just makes the climax feel trivial.

They built up Steppenwolf to be an incredibly powerful antagonist, even killing a Green Lantern and almost destroying the world, then he loses in a few hits.

Superman single handedly beat up the entire league without a sweat not long before the climax. He was built up with the idea of being able to take Steppenwolf.

I get how that can ruin a climax for you, I really do, but

when the build up was there that he should be able to just solo Steppenwolf, then I want to see the pay off for that.

dragonyeuw · Nov 21, 2017

tkscz said:
To me that was the best part. I hate when

someone is introduced as a powerful force of nature, but then starts to weaken with everyone else. There was no point in saving that character or building them up if they aren't just going to own everything. Hulk had this issue for me in both Avenger movies, but the first one especially. Don't sit there and tell me how strong he is. Don't have him come in a one punch one of the giant worms and then have him being overwhelmed. At that point he should've been there the entire time and with little build up.

Problem is that

it made the rest of the league look useless. Basically the entire situation could have been resolved just with Superman alone.

tkscz said:
Superman single handedly beat up the entire league without a sweat not long before the climax. He was built up with the idea of being able to take Steppenwolf.

I get how that can ruin a climax for you, I really do, but

when the build up was there that he should be able to just solo Steppenwolf, then I want to see the pay off for that.

The entire point of the Justice league forming was because a new villain had emerged( with an army of demons) powerful enough that no one hero could take him on alone. But as we came to see, all you basically needed was Superman who wiped the floor with Steffenwolf and would have then eradicated his followers in seconds. It was great seeing Superman back in his glory( and for my money, he was more Superman in tone here than in either MOS or BvS), but it defeated the point of the movie that this team was actually 'needed'. Even as cool as seeing Supes take on the league was, it just further hammered home how one-sided it is. Like, what's the actual contingency plan if Superman goes rogue? You gonna wave Lois in front of him every time? At the very least, they should have written that scene to make Wonder Woman be a better match for him than depicted.

WaterAstro · Nov 21, 2017

autumnleaf said:
Superman almost ruined the final battle. He instantly made Wonder Woman, Flash and Aquaman look useless and the idea of a League redundant. Not only did he have time to go rescue civilans with Flash (and rescue more of them) he returned in time to quip that Aquaman and Wonder Woman were still having trouble with Steppenwolf and casually beat him too without breaking a sweat (and THEN helped Cyborg with his job). What is the point in a Justice League when Superman can do everything on his own better than everyone else can do working together? Wonder Woman should be his equal but she was clearly put in her place when Superman returned.

Yeah, I was thinking about their roles in the movie.

Wonder Woman, despite her movie success, was just a beat-up dummy. She had her moment stopping the out-of-nowhere terrorists and recruiting Cyborg with some pretty lame dialogue.

Flash only had that one moment of charging the motherbox, which was painfully obvious that the moment was staged just so Flash could have a purpose in the movie. Also, they managed to make the speedster look really slow. Should have taken a page out of how X-men did it.

Aquaman only had that part where he stopped the water, which isn't really that fantastic. He was an overall stupid character that was as far from the benevolent, kingly Arthur from the comics.

It was pretty much all Batman and Cyborg with Superman finishing it off like it's nothing.

Thug Waffle · Nov 22, 2017

Kickz said:
Sure, WW was best Comicbook movie up there with Logan.

?????

Lokimaru · Nov 24, 2017

autumnleaf said:
Superman almost ruined the final battle. He instantly made Wonder Woman, Flash and Aquaman look useless and the idea of a League redundant. Not only did he have time to go rescue civilans with Flash (and rescue more of them) he returned in time to quip that Aquaman and Wonder Woman were still having trouble with Steppenwolf and casually beat him too without breaking a sweat (and THEN helped Cyborg with his job). What is the point in a Justice League when Superman can do everything on his own better than everyone else can do working together? Wonder Woman should be his equal but she was clearly put in her place when Superman returned.

Superman can't be every where at once. It's why they have multiple fire trucks at a station cause what if you have TWO fires. Captain America is Stronger then Both Black Widow and Hawkeye yet both are still on the team with him because they bring different skills to the Battle.

Matoko said it best: "If we all reacted the same way, we'd be predictable, and there's always more than one way to view a situation. What's true for the group is also true for the individual. It's simple: overspecialize, and you breed in weakness. It's slow death."

Basically it's Good to have overlap, Supes is the Heavy Hitter. He's the guy you sub in when the Bases are loaded and you need that homer, let your heavy hitter heavy hit.

EverydayBeast · Nov 24, 2017

Just got back from the theater, such a traditional super hero movie.

Raziel · Nov 24, 2017

Alx said:
I agree the ass-shots were too obvious, even I noticed them. Shirtless scenes are fan-service too, but you can at least try to make them fit a context, while framing a single part of someone's anatomy is just cheap.

By this logic, a Wonder Woman hot tub scene including full view scene of naked Gadot with one arm covering her nipples and the other covering her genitals, with eye rolling "context" is less cheap than a fully clothed ass. Because Chris Pine had pretty much the same scene, during which they also discussed his penis. This year also gave us shirtless Tom Holland, a guy that looks like he hasn't hit puberty.

Alx · Nov 24, 2017

raziel said:
By this logic, a Wonder Woman hot tub scene including full view scene of naked Gadot with one arm covering her nipples and the other covering her genitals, with eye rolling "context" is less cheap than a fully clothed ass.

Indeed it is. It's not about being clothed or naked, but being relevant. A close up on Wonder Woman's ass during a mission briefing is out of place. It's as gratuitous as a hot bath scene (provided that scene is gratuitous, in WW it doubled as an amusing character building moment), but it's not even trying to provide a justification. It's just "look, ass !".

Raziel · Nov 24, 2017

Alx said:
Indeed it is. It's not about being clothed or naked, but being relevant. A close up on Wonder Woman's ass during a mission briefing is out of place. It's as gratuitous as a hot bath scene (provided that scene is gratuitous, in WW it doubled as an amusing character building moment), but it's not even trying to provide a justification. It's just "look, ass !".

Uh huh. And of course it's about being clothed or naked because we all agree att the end of the day, this is all fan service, and more skin equals more fan service. One is fully clothed ass shot with no justification (Justice League), the others are tons more skin with justification so thin it might as well have none as well (Wonder Woman, and at least a dozen more examples). One is really no better than the other.

So by this logic, Justice League simply needed to have a character actuallly say "look, ass!" followed by Diana saying "what is an ass" and then the ass shots become "relevant" and "justified." If that's what counts as an "amusing character moment" - and almost anything can be made to fit that, even the infamous two-piece scene from Star Trek Into Darkness - I would rather the movie not even bother. At least it's more honest.

autumnleaf · Nov 24, 2017

Lokimaru said:
Superman can't be every where at once. It's why they have multiple fire trucks at a station cause what if you have TWO fires. Captain America is Stronger then Both Black Widow and Hawkeye yet both are still on the team with him because they bring different skills to the Battle.

Matoko said it best: "If we all reacted the same way, we'd be predictable, and there's always more than one way to view a situation. What's true for the group is also true for the individual. It's simple: overspecialize, and you breed in weakness. It's slow death."

Basically it's Good to have overlap, Supes is the Heavy Hitter. He's the guy you sub in when the Bases are loaded and you need that homer, let your heavy hitter heavy hit.

My point was

he isn't so far beyond Wonder Woman how this movie portrayed him and it was quite a slap in the face to that character how firmly they established she is nothing compared to him. He may be the strongest member but not to the point that Wonder Woman and Flash are redundant.

Also narratively given all the Amazons and Atlanteans killed by Steppenwolf it should have been Wonder Woman and Aquaman that beat him but they could do nothing and Superman had to fly in and casually quip how much trouble they were having and beat him without a sweat, it was poorly handed.

Alx · Nov 24, 2017

raziel said:
One is really no better than the other.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm just saying one is cheap, or lazy if you prefer. They didn't even bother trying.

Raziel · Nov 24, 2017

autumnleaf said:
My point was

he isn't so far beyond Wonder Woman how this movie portrayed him and it was quite a slap in the face to that character how firmly they established she is nothing compared to him. He may be the strongest member but not to the point that Wonder Woman and Flash are redundant.

Also narratively given all the Amazons and Atlanteans killed by Steppenwolf it should have been Wonder Woman and Aquaman that beat him but they could do nothing and Superman had to fly in and casually quip how much trouble they were having and beat him without a sweat, it was poorly handed.

What if I told you... a comic book movie didn't get the heroes' power levels right.

I agree with you though. Three things I wanted to see but didn't:

1. Atlanteans/Mera scene that was as extensive as the Amazons scene.

2. More Wonder Woman vs Steppenwolf. She's "killed things from other worlds before" (including a God from her own movie?).

3. Wonder Woman vs Superman with similar choreography/sfx as the Smallville scene from Man of Steel. MVP Faora made him look silly at time because of her combat skills.

DaveH · Nov 24, 2017

Re: WW v. Steppenwolf...

Originally...

- Original previs was Wonder Woman cutting off Steppenwolf head but later changed. Steppenwolf demise was reworked a few times

- Steppenwolf fear demise through the boomtube is Whedon

If they went with the original idea...

You'd get revenge for the Amazons, Wonder Woman plays a key role to ending the threat as a God Killer, you avoid the "I don't have to save you" oddity of the parademons turning on him, and the ending is unambiguous.

On the flipside, it is violent so you'd have people claiming this isn't their Wonder Woman- despite her killing Ares and trying to kill Doomsday.

Bleepey · Nov 24, 2017

DaveH said:
Re: WW v. Steppenwolf...

Originally...

- Original previs was Wonder Woman cutting off Steppenwolf head but later changed. Steppenwolf demise was reworked a few times

- Steppenwolf fear demise through the boomtube is Whedon

If they went with the original idea...

You'd get revenge for the Amazons, Wonder Woman plays a key role to ending the threat as a God Killer, you avoid the "I don't have to save you" oddity of the parademons turning on him, and the ending is unambiguous.

On the flipside, it is violent so you'd have people claiming this isn't their Wonder Woman- despite her killing Ares and trying to kill Doomsday.

That would have been so much better. What site is this from? Is ResetERA banned? Lol

Lokimaru · Nov 25, 2017

autumnleaf said:
My point was

he isn't so far beyond Wonder Woman how this movie portrayed him and it was quite a slap in the face to that character how firmly they established she is nothing compared to him. He may be the strongest member but not to the point that Wonder Woman and Flash are redundant.

Also narratively given all the Amazons and Atlanteans killed by Steppenwolf it should have been Wonder Woman and Aquaman that beat him but they could do nothing and Superman had to fly in and casually quip how much trouble they were having and beat him without a sweat, it was poorly handed.

Maybe if Wonder Woman hadn't been trying to cut a guy wearing basically fullplate armor she would have been more effective. What's more effective against and armored foe sharp weapons or blunt ones? Supes basically used sunder armor and sunder arms giving Wondy an opening.

MisterAnderson · Nov 25, 2017

I actually liked

the fear thing resulting in the Parademons attacking Steppenwolf. My issue is it felt like a missed opportunity to not somehow have it be part of Batman's plan. His whole shtick is supposed to be imposing fear...would have been a mildly cool spin on the climax I think if it was part of Bats' plan all along instead of being a happy accident (not that Steppenwolf wouldn't had been pummeled to death by Superman if it wasn't for the Parademons...)

JORMBO · Nov 25, 2017

I really enjoyed the movie. It was fun and the cast came together well. Overall it seemed most people in the theater enjoyed it. I don't really get the low RT score. It was a standard super hero movie and most of those have been getting decent scores.

Setmeni · Nov 25, 2017

For me personally I enjoyed the movie, however it did have drawbacks. These included poor CGI, it felt cheap having Superman come in at the end and wreck Steppenwolf, and finally how they kind of made Aquaman weak. The comics had him on par with Superman in strength and I get that he was just beginning with his powers but come on you had both Aquaman and Wonder Woman who are on par if not stronger in certain instances with Superman and they couldnt even put a dent in Steppenwolf. Thats my only really big gripe, CGI was a minor nuisance. However my wife did complain that Steppenwolfs CGI looked worse than his grunts.

Saturnman · Nov 25, 2017

Get ready for more bitter tears from GAF.

Despite a "disappointing" opening, it looks like Justice League has legs. The drop-off from the first friday and last friday is only 57%, similar to Wonder Woman's (58%) and nowhere near the freefall from BvS (78%) and Spiderman Homecoming (73%). The movie is likely to make 300+ million domestically by the end of its run.

Laserdisk · Nov 25, 2017

I dug it, flawed as it was it was at least fun.
And the inner 9 year old in me goes nuts hearing the elfman theme over batman on the big screen

Support NeoGAF

Justice League apparently stinks, because of course

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Darkness no more

Member

Banned

Member

Similar threads