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Paying for content already on the disc, the EVIL side of the Xbox Live Marketplace
- Thread starter a Master Ninja
- Start date
plagiarize
Banned
well, see... that's the thing though isn't it. how many games did you buy that had content on the disc you couldn't get to or play with? pretend hot coffee was never discovered for a minute. you bought that game and it had that content on the disc but you couldn't play it.sp0rsk said:
there's tonnes of games that have redundant content left on the disc that you can't use. you aren't buying the content on the disc, you're buying the game. any enemies you can't fight, or levels you can't access or whatever, you don't care, because you don't know they exist. i don't buy discs full of content i buy games. if the GAME has more than $60 worth of fun i will buy it, even if there is some content locked away on the disc somewhere that i'd need to pay (or buy a gameshark to do it the old fashioned way) to access.
if the game is incomplete, if the stuff that's locked away is crucial to the enjoyment of the game, then i won't even think about buying it. if it's a few extra cars or types of tires or whatever, i won't lose any sleep as i don't buy them.
the problem with microtransactions are the people that buy them begrudgingly. no offence to Amir0x, but it's people like him that pay the expensive prices that they feel are too expensive that keep the prices of this stuff higher than it ought to be. i've hardly bought any microtransations or virtual console games. i have zero problem with looking at what i get for my money should i buy the additional content and deciding if it's worth it or not.
one last time, you aren't buying content on a disc, you're buying the final version of the game as decided by the developers/publishers.
plagiarize
Banned
i'm one of the people that says if no one buys it, AND if people voice their concerns loud enough, then they'll be heard. i'm also going to keep advising people not to deny themselves any game or content that they feel is worth the money, while advising them not to buy any microtransaction that they feel is over priced.Haunted_One said:Where are the people that said 'If no one buys it, it will go away.. don't worry, only EA will do it etc. etc."
This shit is quickly getting out of hand - we need more outrage and more boycotts.
Scoot, say something!
however, i really don't see this whole 'on the disk' argument as a sensible one.
the 'paying for stuff that was included in the last gen' argument was a good one. i thought that the whole GT:HD idea was ****ing awful, and voiced my concerns with everyone else there too, and look what happened. the market spoke and the manufacturer listened.
Couldn't agree morealkaline black said:You forgot the biggest offender.
This applies to the PS2 and PC versions as well, of course.
The Innocent X
Banned
It makes me laugh that people would rather developers held stuff back off the disc so that they could feel better about downloading it instead. Because that`s all that would happen.
Buy things based on the value they offer, not based on the delivery mechanism or some perceived slight against gamers.
Buy things based on the value they offer, not based on the delivery mechanism or some perceived slight against gamers.
pr0cs
Member
ChrisAllenFiz said:
well said.
If it doesn't add value to you then don't buy it.
What about the argument that you bought an application on CD that came with a trial of an upgrade of another app but you needed to buy a CD key to unlock it... do people get pissed off about that too? "The trial for Hollywood FX Pro is on my Pinnacle Studio 9 CD, I demand the copy to be unlocked because I already have it on the CD!"
eudaemonic
Member
*pulls out soapbox*
People have cash to blow... it may not be you... but there are still tons of people who are willing to just give their cash away for "silly" things.
So, if I am making a game, and I have full knowledge of this... why not let people give me that money for some bonus content I created? It's obviously not crippling the gameplay. You can still get enjoyment out of it (hopefully). Also, if you didn't like the game without the content, you are probably not going to like the game with it either.
I don't see why people have such a hard time with this.
*beats on a dead Horstashio* If you don't like the content, don't buy it. If you can't get over the fact that they store it on the disc versus making you download it, then you need to find a greater purpose in life. Your "rally against the microtransactionman" is one of the least worries in your life.
*steps down, puts it away, and goes out for coffee*
People have cash to blow... it may not be you... but there are still tons of people who are willing to just give their cash away for "silly" things.
So, if I am making a game, and I have full knowledge of this... why not let people give me that money for some bonus content I created? It's obviously not crippling the gameplay. You can still get enjoyment out of it (hopefully). Also, if you didn't like the game without the content, you are probably not going to like the game with it either.
I don't see why people have such a hard time with this.
*beats on a dead Horstashio* If you don't like the content, don't buy it. If you can't get over the fact that they store it on the disc versus making you download it, then you need to find a greater purpose in life. Your "rally against the microtransactionman" is one of the least worries in your life.
*steps down, puts it away, and goes out for coffee*
pancakesandsex
Member
what are the downloadables for samurai warriors? and are they in the ps2 version?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I thought many of those were full downloads. Man, that's horrible, even Viva Piñata got that crap =( I am definitely boycotting this trend.
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
I'm more pissed at having to pay $60 to play a game!
Semjaza Azazel
Member
Maybe someone can answer this for me because it's a honest question.
Have there been any downloads on the marketplace that have been smaller than 108kb? I've not honestly spent time looking, although I feel like that Oblivion book add-on might have been.
The reason I ask is because it makes me wonder if, perhaps for security reasons, this is the size required by games to actually utilize the things. I don't know and I've never really seen a decent answer to that one way or another. It's just a thought.
In Viva Pinata, these accessory packs contain three items. The ones I've seen are solid colors and hardly complex. Considering some of the things any of us have downloaded off the internet (and that most of the resources required by these items would probably already be in the game in some form as it is), it doesn't even strike me as odd for that content to be under 100 kb. It's not remotely out of the question.
In Viva Pinata, there's over a dozen items you can unlock for free with simple codes. I don't really feel ripped off by a few more being available for an extra price considering they don't do anything.
Have there been any downloads on the marketplace that have been smaller than 108kb? I've not honestly spent time looking, although I feel like that Oblivion book add-on might have been.
The reason I ask is because it makes me wonder if, perhaps for security reasons, this is the size required by games to actually utilize the things. I don't know and I've never really seen a decent answer to that one way or another. It's just a thought.
In Viva Pinata, these accessory packs contain three items. The ones I've seen are solid colors and hardly complex. Considering some of the things any of us have downloaded off the internet (and that most of the resources required by these items would probably already be in the game in some form as it is), it doesn't even strike me as odd for that content to be under 100 kb. It's not remotely out of the question.
In Viva Pinata, there's over a dozen items you can unlock for free with simple codes. I don't really feel ripped off by a few more being available for an extra price considering they don't do anything.
Phoenix
Member
john2kx said:
Yeah, and if people stopped paying high prices for gas, it would eventually go down in price too right? No, downloadable content is a business model to get more money out of gamers and its not going anywhere. The whole Xbox live business plan revolves around making you pay for stuff that used to be free - because well, shit you have no other way to get it
DLC and many of the components of 'requred to pay' from Live were always bad for gamers - but because the newness of it was there people bought into it. Because its simple, people will KEEP buying into it. There is too much money to be made from it so I can guaran-damn-tee you that the developers will not stop putting them in games - ever.
soul creator
Member
Phoenix said:Yeah, and if people stopped paying high prices for gas, it would eventually go down in price too right? No, downloadable content is a business model to get more money out of gamers and its not going anywhere. The whole Xbox live business plan revolves around making you pay for stuff that used to be free - because well, shit you have no other way to get it
DLC and many of the components of 'requred to pay' from Live were always bad for gamers - but because the newness of it was there people bought into it. Because its simple, people will KEEP buying into it. There is too much money to be made from it so I can guaran-damn-tee you that the developers will not stop putting them in games - ever.
I would imagine it's much harder to live without a car on Need for Speed, than it is fuel to get people to work.
And seriously, even with the "worst" of microtransactions, such as Need for Speed, none of them are needed to enjoy the game. The game isn't completely unplayable or broken when you buy it, so the "microtransactions" actually aren't needed at all.
BobFromPikeCreek
Member
ChrisAllenFiz said:
That's not the point. The point is the morons had content that could fit on the disc and be ready for the game launch, and are making us pay extra for it for no damn good reason. It's stupidity and I hate every one of the people who are actually buying that crap.
Last gen when a dev created a game you got 100% of it for the purchase price.
This gen not only is the purchase price more, but a dev only releases ~80% of what they created. To get all of it you have to pay even more. It's not "extra" content, it's all part of what they originally developed.
Microtransactions are the biggest ripoff the industry has ever encountered. It's a scam, plain and simple. You are getting less for the original purchase price, and this "just don't pay for MT" argument doesn't negate the fact that you are no longer getting 100% of a developed game.
This gen not only is the purchase price more, but a dev only releases ~80% of what they created. To get all of it you have to pay even more. It's not "extra" content, it's all part of what they originally developed.
Microtransactions are the biggest ripoff the industry has ever encountered. It's a scam, plain and simple. You are getting less for the original purchase price, and this "just don't pay for MT" argument doesn't negate the fact that you are no longer getting 100% of a developed game.
Howard Alan Treesong
Member
Parch said:
Well, an A-list current gen game costs about 5-10 times as much to create as an A-list last gen game. It sounds to me like gamers are getting a great deal.
a Master Ninja
Member
Nerevar said:
Was it really? I'm surprised/proud.
Congratulations a Master Ninja, you're famous!
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12491/Unlocking-Keys-Disguised-as-Downloadable-Content/
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12491/Unlocking-Keys-Disguised-as-Downloadable-Content/
Black Deatha
Member
Wario64 said:
Wow, a slight blurb in advance, and a quote word for word of his post, where is there follow up? :lol it would be intresting to see this go further, and call devs out on this. The only game on that list that I have downloaded any of the 'extras' for was Dead Rising, which was free, but it's still kinda sucks for those withOUT XBL.
Furthermore, I did wonder at the time why a hat, or sunglasses were the same file size as a full suit, good catch Master Ninja. I really hope this doesnt continue as a trend, but I feel it inevitably will.
I dont mind the idea of paying for something that's good. So far the only DLC I have bought as an extra for a game was the Saints Row extra outfitting one, it was ok, but nothing special. I think it was only 1-200 points though, no a huge deal. Now if DLC ends up being like the old SC extra missions, that's a better DL, but than again, that was FREE than
CrapSandwich
former Navy SEAL
How did anybody not know about this already? Do people actually not pay attention to the size of the files they're downloading? Or did they fail to piece it together? It's like some of you are asleep at the ****ing wheel or something.
FirstInHell
Banned
sp0rsk said:
I have bought a bunch of content off of the marketplace and I am happy to do so. If you guys don't like it, don't buy it. However this type of thing is not going to go away because the people who are outraged by it are in the minority.
Is that accessory pack preventing you from enjoying Viva Pinata? Is that extra car completely ruining Need For Speed? I am sure your gaming experience will survive if you just don't bother purchasing it.
a Master Ninja
Member
Wario64 said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
I am laughing so hard it hurts.
a Master Ninja
Member
So what are the odds that rather than stopping this practice of paying for unlock keys to access premium content on the disc, they just make the file sizes larger than 108kb to disguise it? If Viva Pinata Accessory Packs 5-10 are anything other than 108kb you'll know this is what they've done.
Diablohead
Member
One reason for keys instead of content is that if you play online with someone who unlocked the pay to play with character models there won't be a problem, otherwise it's like downloading a map or something you do not own each time you play a game online.
A bit of a shame but sometimes it works out better.
A bit of a shame but sometimes it works out better.
Z_Y
Member
Javaman said:
I would have paid $100 for Beach Invasion alone!! (it was one of the initial maps though)Those "d/l'able" maps were all free though so I really have no problem with it.
I just wish that over time developers discounted the DLC (better yet...make it free), i.e Halo 2. It may even help boost sales of some older titles. I know I'd probably pick up a bargain bin title if I knew all of its DLC was now free. Games get discounted...why not the DLC?
I'm still pissed that map pack 1 for PD0 is still 500 points...but it comes on the disc for anybody that picks up the platinum hits version. I paid $60 for the LE over a year ago and Johnny-come-lately goes out and gets a more complete version for less than half than what I paid. :lol (yes...I am bitter)
Diablohead said:
That is an interesting point and one that I have not thought of. This probably means that ALL of Chromehounds DLC is already on the disc.
ChrisAllenFiz said:
Way to miss the point completely. The issue isn't with the content being the disc, but with the developers purposely holding back content for their own profit. People don't mind paying extra for content thats created AFTER the game is shipped. If you're going to make a bunch of bonus content before the game is out and it's public ready, why not just put i on the ****ing disc for the people?
And to all the morons who thought this wouldn't happen - I told you so.
Kabuki Waq
Member
FirstInHell said:
How ignorant and shortsighted are you?
jakershaker
Member
Nerevar said:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Delete this topic now, we must save Gaf
dirtmonkey37
flinging feces ---->
sp0rsk said:
The way you put it makes it seem illegal.......
I'm getting sick of the microtransactions thing. I mean charging for full expansions is one thing, but for things like ****ing gamerpics? It just makes it all feel so cheap. Whatever happened to customer service and goodwill? Sure, the prices on most things are low, but I have something against paying for an avatar that is essentially a marketing ploy for some game. (like a pic of Master Chief or Marcus Fenix)
a Master Ninja
Member
I just found this, so forgive me for not posting this over a week ago.
http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/12/the_microtransa.html
^WIRED write-up by Chris Kohler. Thank you, good sir.
http://www.digg.com/gaming_news/Microsoft_Charging_People_for_What_They_Already_Own
^ 108 digg comments on 108kb download keys:lol
http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/12/the_microtransa.html
^WIRED write-up by Chris Kohler. Thank you, good sir.
http://www.digg.com/gaming_news/Microsoft_Charging_People_for_What_They_Already_Own
^ 108 digg comments on 108kb download keys:lol
a Master Ninja said:I just found this, so forgive me for not posting this over a week ago.
http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/12/the_microtransa.html
^WIRED write-up by Chris Kohler. Thank you, good sir.
http://www.digg.com/gaming_news/Microsoft_Charging_People_for_What_They_Already_Own
^ 108 digg comments on 108kb download keys:lol
Microsoft got back at you for this, didn't they? :O You got famous for this, and your 360 just broke... Coincidence?
a Master Ninja
Member
joaomgcd said:
Microsoft, you may have won this round, but I'll be back!
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This was already happening 10 years ago with Quake 1. Buy the shareware CD for $1 or so, unlock the full game already on the disc for $40.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
EmSeta said:
Agreed and it is also ridiculous paying to change your gamer name. I mean that is insanity.
Night_Trekker
Member
Sjoerd said:
No that's not even close to the same thing. That's one buck and upon purchase you were aware that you were getting a tiny portion of the game in the form of a demo. (Are games still sold this way these days, aside from Flash games? I have no clue but it sounds like a really, really stupid idea considering how quickly cracks can surface.)
We're talking about $60+ here, though. How many people pay 60 damn dollars for a game with the full knowledge that what they are getting is basically gimped? Very few. There's no way we're going to get a disclaimer on the box for that stuff, but it would be the decent thing to do.
But of course the developer can say, "Oh, but this is what was intended as the full experience and you can't prove otherwise. Everything else is additional content." That is, unless it's on the disc to begin with and you have to pay to access it. Then you know the content was compromised from the very beginning with the intention of fleecing you for more cash. I have no problem paying for extra multiplayer maps a year after the game has been released, but I don't like this inevitable trend to give us less for our $60, and I really don't like the idea of paying for something we technically already have.
It's depressing, because as other posters have said, there's no way microtransations are going to disappear. EA, for example, has done a disgusting but smart thing. They've found a way to nickel-and-dime the lazy, the rental crowd and time-challenged gamers for stuff they could unlock themselves. Anyone paying for that content is arguably an idiot, but at least you have the option to unlock the cheats and whatnot instead of paying for them if you would like.
What a Master Ninja is talking about is different. This is shit you obviously would have been given access to last gen, content that would have been yours with the initial purchase, but now you're denied access to it even though it's in your hands.
I'm interested in the legal aspects of this stuff but unfortunately know little about it. Do you actually own all the content on a disc when you buy it? Are you breaking the law by accessing unfinished material (without altering the game in any way permanently) with a device like a GameShark, by using a code or exploiting a bug? How about a user-made mod? If I make a rip of a game's soundtrack for my own personal use, am I doing something illegal? I own the game and the game contains the soundtrack, so I own the soundtrack... or do I?
Fascinating but frustrating stuff.