-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Physical punishment for kids? Does it work?
- Thread starter The Futurist
- Start date
Yes, that's the definition of anecdotal evidence. It shows nothing. You have no idea if what you see is because of, or despite of. When you try to contradict 20 years of research, your own recounts don't really surmount to much when juxtapositioned to no research finding any positive benefits to striking your child.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Yes, they would have. Like doctors advertising cigarettes or having to make a law to wear a seat belt.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It's almost as if it doesn't work at all and there is zero correlation?
BlueBadger
Banned
I was belted for most of my childhood whenever I was bad. It never really hurt that much. I think it was mainly scary just hearing the belt coming off combined with footsteps heading in my direction.
Regarding my current situation, I'm really over-apologetic and have had anxiety disorder and facial tics since I was a child. Really not sure if there's any correlation tbh.
If I had a child, I probably wouldn't use physical punishment (not that I plan to have kids anyway). I don't think it's right, tbh.
Regarding my current situation, I'm really over-apologetic and have had anxiety disorder and facial tics since I was a child. Really not sure if there's any correlation tbh.
If I had a child, I probably wouldn't use physical punishment (not that I plan to have kids anyway). I don't think it's right, tbh.
TheRagnCajun
Member
That's pretty much the crux of the whole debate. People are going to lean on their own personal anecdotes. If there happens to be a study that supports your side of the argument that's a bonus but I've never seen a study sway someone's opinion one way or the other on this subject. I'm saying this after seeing how often this subject comes up on NeoGAF and how the discussion usually goes.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Seriously...Just don't beat your children.
Culturally (my parents are both from the Caribbean), it's apparently a thing to hit you kids. Growing up, my sister and I never were hit or "beat". I never got threatened with the belt or whatever.
May parents just told me why they were upset, and if I was acting stupid they would take away something that I loved (item) or activity. I have a little one, and she's testing her boundaries but I could NEVER bring myself to hit her.
Culturally (my parents are both from the Caribbean), it's apparently a thing to hit you kids. Growing up, my sister and I never were hit or "beat". I never got threatened with the belt or whatever.
May parents just told me why they were upset, and if I was acting stupid they would take away something that I loved (item) or activity. I have a little one, and she's testing her boundaries but I could NEVER bring myself to hit her.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
old manatee
Banned
I'm 35 and I go into full fight or flight mode if my dad touches me in even a friendly way. Like if he is telling me a funny story and he gets excited and touches my arm I flinch or go totally rigid and stare at his hand and it gets super awkward, especially if other people are around because it's so obvious that I'm still terrified of him. He didn't even hit me that often when I was a kid. He was more of a yeller, but once in a blue moon he would lose control and hit me or throw something at me, and that was enough to make me a permanently defensive weirdo.
This is where I stand and I'm Asian too. I'll yell, but never strike them. I'm not going to normalize abuse to my kids.
Iva Demilcol
Member
lol. True
What is this even? You're saying you're not an expert but you state, as a fact, that physical punishment does work when an entire body of work regarding this topic suggests literally the exact opposite. If you turn out to be a decent human being and your parents hit you as a kid then it's despite that fact not because of it. You think the only way to teach children that their actions have consequences is to hit them? We've had this topic before and it's always the same shit with "yeah but I turned out fine" and "don't tell me how to discipline my kids".
Mammoth Jones
Member
Meh, I turned out fine w/ a belt spanking every now and then.
I don't think it works. But I don't think trying to be a kids buddy works either. Every kid is different. Some need that whooping. Others will change behavior just telling them how disappointed you are in them. Other will with the correct incentives.
Personally I don't plan to beat my kid. But I plan to run a tight ship. Cause NYPD don't give second chances w/ a black child so I gotta make sure they on the straight and narrow.
I don't think it works. But I don't think trying to be a kids buddy works either. Every kid is different. Some need that whooping. Others will change behavior just telling them how disappointed you are in them. Other will with the correct incentives.
Personally I don't plan to beat my kid. But I plan to run a tight ship. Cause NYPD don't give second chances w/ a black child so I gotta make sure they on the straight and narrow.
pureplayin2
Member
I don't think it does. I was born in the early 80's so I grew up in the 90's. My sister and I would get spanked with a belt or hand when we really acted up, but we still acted up in the future. When we swore as kids we would have to sit with a bar of soap in our mouth or if we really pissed my mom off she when we swore she would sit on top of us and squeeze liquid soap in our mouths. That didn't work either because kids will be kids.
It all stop once we got a bit older so the punishment changed. I could never be inside, I always had to be outside playing, that's just how I was, so the punishment became me be grounded. They punished me with taking what I enjoyed most away from me. It worked to an extent because again, kids will be kids and teens will be teens. As we mature with age we grew out of all the misbehaving and because my parents were actually parents and taught us right from wrong and were involved/interested in what we did, my sister and I grew up just fine and are better people than most. Raise you kid right, teach them right from wrong, about morality, and that there are consequences for their actions and you will raise good people. A good way to punish and make them feel, see, and sense the consequence is to find what they love/enjoy most and take it from them as punishment for a short time. For example: my friend's son is glued to his video games, his 3ds and ps4, so my friend takes his game time away from his kid when he acts up or not doing what he is told. The kid literally goes out of his way not to mess up, but again kids will be kids.
It all stop once we got a bit older so the punishment changed. I could never be inside, I always had to be outside playing, that's just how I was, so the punishment became me be grounded. They punished me with taking what I enjoyed most away from me. It worked to an extent because again, kids will be kids and teens will be teens. As we mature with age we grew out of all the misbehaving and because my parents were actually parents and taught us right from wrong and were involved/interested in what we did, my sister and I grew up just fine and are better people than most. Raise you kid right, teach them right from wrong, about morality, and that there are consequences for their actions and you will raise good people. A good way to punish and make them feel, see, and sense the consequence is to find what they love/enjoy most and take it from them as punishment for a short time. For example: my friend's son is glued to his video games, his 3ds and ps4, so my friend takes his game time away from his kid when he acts up or not doing what he is told. The kid literally goes out of his way not to mess up, but again kids will be kids.
I don't consider this any better.....if not more mentally hurtful.
See now...this...this is straight up child abuse. There's a line to discipline, and it seems a LOT of parents have trouble not crossing it.
Not to mention, you were probably swearing due to hearing the parents/adults in your life doing it.
SillyEskimo
Member
Its such a fucking lazy way to parent. There are always better alternatives, but they require way too much effort for shitty parents to bother with.
KarneeKarnay
Member
I don't think so. I got told off and punished as a kid, but I always knew what I did to cross the line.
As I got older it helped me stand up for myself, because I knew when I hadn't done anything wrong and when to stand up for myself.
Also I think child leashes are super embarrassing. Tell your kid to hold your hand and make sure they do. They aren't animals.
As I got older it helped me stand up for myself, because I knew when I hadn't done anything wrong and when to stand up for myself.
Also I think child leashes are super embarrassing. Tell your kid to hold your hand and make sure they do. They aren't animals.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The parenting is what decides what kind of kid needs what. If your child will only change behavior with a whooping, it's because of the parents.
sensui-tomo
Member
The best way is to think of it like this, If i cant do it to my partner in public chances are i shouldnt do it to a fucking child. (this is in response to seeing someone get hit and their hair pulled... like christ lets just imagine a boyfriend doing that to their girlfriend in a public setting and tell someone "Its alright, i'm hitting her to make her a better person and teach her she was wrong", yet seeing grown adults do that to a child may seem fine to some *)
Warm Machine
Member
Yelling at my son almost does nothing. He has that rare ability to disregard it. He also has the ability to not look at you or get distracted by other things while you are talking to him, meaning his thoughts will drift away from whatever you are saying to him when duress is involved. Ive had to slap his hands on a number of occasions because he did something foolish or straight up dangerous.
For non parents out there wait and see how measured your response is when your child sees human filth in a public shower drain and tries to put it in his mouth. An event like this lasts two seconds and there is no time with a two and a half year old, at the time, to have them understand what they are doing nor reason with them under those conditions. Yeah it hurts him to smack his hands and it hurts you to do it but the alternative is far worse.
Thankfully those sorts of panics are mostly over now that my son is almost 7. Everything ends with dialogue now.
For non parents out there wait and see how measured your response is when your child sees human filth in a public shower drain and tries to put it in his mouth. An event like this lasts two seconds and there is no time with a two and a half year old, at the time, to have them understand what they are doing nor reason with them under those conditions. Yeah it hurts him to smack his hands and it hurts you to do it but the alternative is far worse.
Thankfully those sorts of panics are mostly over now that my son is almost 7. Everything ends with dialogue now.
The Futurist
Member
To be clear, I'm not denying or refuting the studies.
I absolutely believe in them.
My parents are educated professionals. I was raised in a nice town with mostly educated people and went to good schools.
Not a ton of negative factors growing up.
Maybe I would have been fine even without the belt.
I absolutely believe in them.
My parents are educated professionals. I was raised in a nice town with mostly educated people and went to good schools.
Not a ton of negative factors growing up.
Maybe I would have been fine even without the belt.
My mother beating me was never about teaching a fucking thing... other than what a terrible world I got brought into where people who love you could hurt you so badly. It was mostly for her to vent all her frustrations about not having what she wanted out of life on me.
If you have a kid who could possibly reflect on such things maybe even latter in life, why risk damaging them? Because that was the most convenient way to control them? Because you felt better?
If you have a kid who could possibly reflect on such things maybe even latter in life, why risk damaging them? Because that was the most convenient way to control them? Because you felt better?
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Making them stand in the corner or taking away a toy isn't being their buddy.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
The truth is, there's a lot of forms of abuse. Mental, physical, emotional... Some of the people who claim they'd never even do a slight swat to the butt of their children might be emotionally isolating them or overpowering them in other ways.
So far, it seems to me that the most important aspect to any form of punishment comes in the reunification period. If your children feel like they can trust you to have their best interests in mind and aren't just punishing them for the sake of punishment (remember,this is from their perspective,not yours), then they're much more likely to grow up confident and secure while also gaining tools to help keep them out of trouble out in the world.
There are hard red lines to any punishment though. That varies for everyone. Find things that work for you and make sure you keep communication open between you and your child. Talk to them and take their feelings seriously. A lot of parenting is trial and error.
It's a frustrating reaction, people are not only convinced that because they have decided they are ok that it's therefore ok, they aren't even allowing the idea of what life would have been for them with the absence of violence in their upbringing.
Ninja Scooter
Member
This is what is the most puzzling about how relatively accepted corporal punishment is culturally. Like, if someone smacked their wife with a belt as a means of correcting her behavior, people would think it was despicable. In a workplace environment, it would be totally unacceptable, but with children somehow it's okay? When in reality as a parent all you are doing is taking advantage of the parent/authority relationship you have over your kids. Like, the only reason I didn't smack my dad back when he whipped me was because it was my dad, had it been anybody else I would have defended myself. It's pretty fucked up.
I honestly don't think it does, and I've never spanked my son (he's 6).
1) We tell kids not to hit other people, yet hit them when they do something wrong. I think that sends the wrong message. It's basically telling them that hitting is ok.
2) I couldn't bring myself to spank my kid. I couldn't live with myself when I'd see the look in his eyes from his dad hitting him. I remember looking at my dad that way when he spanked me and I'm not going to put my son through that.
There's other ways to discipline your kids. Your kids aren't your property, and you have no right to hit them. If you wouldn't hit another adult, why hit someone who looks up to you for everything, and is dependent on you for their survival. The absolute last thing I want is my son to be afraid of me.
1) We tell kids not to hit other people, yet hit them when they do something wrong. I think that sends the wrong message. It's basically telling them that hitting is ok.
2) I couldn't bring myself to spank my kid. I couldn't live with myself when I'd see the look in his eyes from his dad hitting him. I remember looking at my dad that way when he spanked me and I'm not going to put my son through that.
There's other ways to discipline your kids. Your kids aren't your property, and you have no right to hit them. If you wouldn't hit another adult, why hit someone who looks up to you for everything, and is dependent on you for their survival. The absolute last thing I want is my son to be afraid of me.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
There are childless child psychologists. Our pediatrician doesn't have children.
Messofanego
Banned
Do people who use anecdotal evidence want a pat on their back that they didn't turn out to be troubled, doing crimes, and end up in juvie? When you say "I turned out fine", you must realise you yourself are qualifying it as for most people it doesn't turn out fine and they don't become better people. Like others point out, you don't abuse other people so why is it acceptable only within the family? Cause you know that family members won't rat you out to the authorities?
You can become better at tolerating the abuse but you're using a hypothetical parallel reality where if you weren't hit, you would become a worse person. Which is useless, unless if you've got a time machine to test this out. You're the minority in this belief and that's what it is, a belief, not actual evidence that can be generalised to others.
You can become better at tolerating the abuse but you're using a hypothetical parallel reality where if you weren't hit, you would become a worse person. Which is useless, unless if you've got a time machine to test this out. You're the minority in this belief and that's what it is, a belief, not actual evidence that can be generalised to others.
N7 MRP Weasel
Banned
Jeez this is really something for some of y'all.
Parents beat their kids in some parts of the world even in the good ole US of A, shocker!
It's as old as time disciplining your children. Get over it. There is straight up torture and then there's getting the belt for playing with fire and almost burning the house down (that was my cousin)
I'd argue that parents who verbally abuse their kids are worse than those who spank etc.
Parents beat their kids in some parts of the world even in the good ole US of A, shocker!
It's as old as time disciplining your children. Get over it. There is straight up torture and then there's getting the belt for playing with fire and almost burning the house down (that was my cousin)
I'd argue that parents who verbally abuse their kids are worse than those who spank etc.
HiredN00bs
Member
*nutshots cps agent*
Ninja Scooter
Member
What a well thought out, eloquent post.
That's called a false equivocation. Just because some people are able to be worse to their kids without being violent, doesn't invalidate 20 years of research showing there's no positive outcome from physically hurting your children as a form of discipline.
You're also downplaying the issue, and you're cherry-picking. That's a good set of things to pack into such a short reply.
Sun Bather
Member
Well it works or at least appears to work often immediately, that's why it has been traditionally used so much. An extremely quick and easy fix. However (and this is a big however), it more often than not, comes with other big consequences that are not as instant or obvious, and that's why I'm well happy any form of physical punishments is illegal in my country.
I don't think parents that used physical punishment on their children are necessarily bad parents or people, could be extremely desperate parents in a situation or simply ignorant/living in a culture where it's the norm. But the "i was hit and I turned out fine" line that goes through all debates like this, is a weak argument, even if your parents are lovely people.
I don't think parents that used physical punishment on their children are necessarily bad parents or people, could be extremely desperate parents in a situation or simply ignorant/living in a culture where it's the norm. But the "i was hit and I turned out fine" line that goes through all debates like this, is a weak argument, even if your parents are lovely people.
N7 MRP Weasel
Banned
I mean i guess ill have to elaborate more on my sarcasm?
Ninja Scooter
Member
Expect a reply referencing the GAF hivemind, possibly using the words "triggered" and "SJW" or "PC" and an announcement that they will be leaving this thread.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
This is a great post. Honestly, if you really listen to your parents/grandparents who were beat, they'll rarely speak about it in a positive light. Imagine being a small child and having a large adult who is suppose to protect you, physically harm you.
There's plenty of more ways to build character. Education, physical play, any sort of bonding time, etc.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Ninja Scooter
Member
Separate from the fact that you were conditioned, how can you know that you wouldn't have turned out the same or better had your parents simply disciplined you w/o violence? How exactly can you know that it "worked" in your individual case?
Dougieflesh
Member
Everytime I got in trouble as a child, my parents would give me a spanking, ground me for extended periods of time, and give me like a 2 hour lecture. The spankings were the easiest part of getting in trouble, and I never was "beaten" or feared my parents. People have different methods for disciplining their children. I'm ok if people spank their children as long as they don't go overboard with it.
tonysidaway
Member
I grew up in a period of British history when this was part of the culture. It was assumed that most normal people hit their children (but mostly the boys). Comics and TV shows celebrated teacher and parent characters who took great pleasure in abusing children. It was just the way things were, kids existed to be beaten. Even as a teen I was beaten once, having broken no rules, for failing to report the valence of oxygen correctly in class.
I didn't beat my kids. I wanted no part in it, and in any case the culture had changed again. Surprise, they're not hooligans.
I didn't beat my kids. I wanted no part in it, and in any case the culture had changed again. Surprise, they're not hooligans.
Tragicomedy
Member
No.
The Futurist
Member
At least my dad never hit me, so I never internalized that a father should be the one hitting.
The mother dynamic is very specific and part of the culture point I was trying to make.
Again, I think a lot of people are immediately assuming that any amount of hitting is serious physical harm.
It was never that. I wasn't going to school the next day limping. I didn't have black eyes or any sort of bruises or marks.
Haha. Both my parents have backgrounds in science.
The mother dynamic is very specific and part of the culture point I was trying to make.
Again, I think a lot of people are immediately assuming that any amount of hitting is serious physical harm.
It was never that. I wasn't going to school the next day limping. I didn't have black eyes or any sort of bruises or marks.
Haha. Both my parents have backgrounds in science.
Similar threads
- Locked