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Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove
- Thread starter Burbeting
- Start date
Post in question. Doesn't look like he personally believed that there was a 99% chance it was scum, just that 99% of the time they are scum.
why did this post just give me a strong sense of deja vu?
Thanks for finding that, I stand corrected. Going from memory on mobile is rough lol
That's because we blocked him
Sorian can answer those himself when he's not sleeping but for Day 2 specifically he did mention to me that he scum read both Kits and Ouro but felt more strongly about Ouro.
I'm not sure how that answers the comment about Kits/FEP. :x
???
CrimsonFist
Member
The post you're quoting proposes that scum didn't infact block Ouro both days though. You're not arguing with the point it put forward.
Your conviction that Ouro wasn't blocked both days ended in a mislynch, and now rather than considering that maybe scum did block him both days, which is the simplest explanation, you're looking for new excuses to justify your original premise eg. Star could have lied. That makes me wonder if your conviction goes beyond simply speculating that scum must have been virgin hunting.
CrimsonFist
Member
Full claim
CrimsonFist
Member
You role blocked him, and still tunneled him despite the scum kill going through?
You knew why at least one of his messages wasn't delivered and still tunneled him?
You knew why at least one of his messages wasn't delivered and still tunneled him?
If Sawneeks is about to claim a town RB then this is moot, but...
This entire post is disingenuous. If you think I'm scum then go for it and make an actual argument, but don't try and act like the conclusion I came to was all that unlikely or that I was the driving force in Ouro being lynched.
CrimsonFist
Member
Dr. Worm was fishing for info regarding roleblocks on Day 2 as well. Not sure if it's relevant to anything but putting it out there.
Sorian and I were talking about this over the Night Phase but we both agreed that it would be best to get this out of the way now if we had to instead of leaving it until the end of the Day Phase since we know how ridiculous it sounds.
We're Town Hookers.
Our targets were:
N1 - Ouro/KK
N2 - Ouro/KK
N3 - Kark/Xbro
Why Ouro and KK twice? For N1, Fat suggested in chat that they block him as his gut didn't agree with how he was acting and Sorian just wasn't entirely sold on anyone else at the time and was worried about accidentally hitting the Virgin. For N2, after seeing Kits flip and how Ouro was acting during that time, we figured it was best to stay on him instead of running the risk of hitting the Virgin as we were fairly certain on him being Scum. But...we all saw how that turned out so uh, sorry Ouro.
For last Night, since we knew a NK wasn't a worry, we went back and forth a lot on who to block. We decided to go for Kark/Xbro since neither of us like how much of a lack of presence Kark has this game and because we really couldn't agree on any other target. >.>
i'll be here for a while to answer questions n such
We're Town Hookers.
Our targets were:
N1 - Ouro/KK
N2 - Ouro/KK
N3 - Kark/Xbro
Why Ouro and KK twice? For N1, Fat suggested in chat that they block him as his gut didn't agree with how he was acting and Sorian just wasn't entirely sold on anyone else at the time and was worried about accidentally hitting the Virgin. For N2, after seeing Kits flip and how Ouro was acting during that time, we figured it was best to stay on him instead of running the risk of hitting the Virgin as we were fairly certain on him being Scum. But...we all saw how that turned out so uh, sorry Ouro.
For last Night, since we knew a NK wasn't a worry, we went back and forth a lot on who to block. We decided to go for Kark/Xbro since neither of us like how much of a lack of presence Kark has this game and because we really couldn't agree on any other target. >.>
i'll be here for a while to answer questions n such
CrimsonFist
Member
Why block anyone last night? With no scum kill, there would have been no information from it and you could have just as easily have hit a town PR.
Both messages didn't go through unless we were somehow stopped. We also knew that the kill wasn't stopped but the worry of hitting the Virgin was high and we figured it was best to block the person we thought was Scum rather than hit elsewhere and run that risk of disabling the virgin.
CrimsonFist
Member
I understand having town PR's as counters to other town PR's, I mean I just ran a game with town sleepwalkers as a counter to town's investigative roles.
It also means having to balance trying to block scum with not hitting the virgin.
Plus we've had a traditionally town role (loved) flip as scum.
On the other hand, it gives scum no counter to the virgins and just sounds pretty implausible.
It also means having to balance trying to block scum with not hitting the virgin.
Plus we've had a traditionally town role (loved) flip as scum.
On the other hand, it gives scum no counter to the virgins and just sounds pretty implausible.
That was something we discuss in our Chat as well but we don't know what Scum has and thought it was better to try and stop a potential Scum PR now that we didn't have the risk of hitting VereDragonz than just sit and do nothing. For all we know they have an investigative role or some other power and I thought it was silly to not act and at least try. :x
CrimsonFist
Member
No I'm questioning why Sorian was pushing for his lynch yesterday despite the information from the role blocking.
AbsolutBro
Member
Ouro sent messages to people based on "feeling them as town" or some such. Why on earth would a scum team NOT capitalize on that? What do they gain by keeping quiet, since Ouros action is invisible to the game thread otherwise so it's not like they could call him on it.
About to eat dinner, should be off mobile in a few hours. (Have to feed barn animals after dinner.)
Because Ouro's reads weren't based on anything but gut? Because confirming Ouro's role would potentially have shifted the odds of him, as a town player, being lynched? That being said my thought was clearly wrong so do now
Unvote
Trust me, I know. I questioned that as much when I got the PM as a Town Hooker made no sense but I'd assume Burb has it set up this way for a reason. I mean, so far the other Town roles we've seen are Virgin and Mailman ( one useful under certain circumstances and the other just kind of useless ) and not to mention we've seen a Loved Scum role too ( also somewhat useless ). We're lightly debating if this game is full of semi-useless roles but we can't really go far with role speculation until we have a better idea of the PRs at play but it would make sense given our role.
We sort of ended up in a tunnel, I won't deny that. I didn't like his reaction towards Kits' lynch and his lack of scum hunting, despite being active in the thread, was setting off alarm bells and KK only coming in to drop reads lists where he scum read everyone and leave wasn't doing them any favors either and Sorian agreed with me. We were echo chambering ourselves and believed we were right.
If you guys were going to open the day with a reveal, why not just reveal last night and let us talk about the information. I said yesterday that if we had any information to validate the claim, I would think they were town personally.
We did have some proof tho it was just omitted until it was too late. We got a game full of heroes
We did have some proof tho it was just omitted until it was too late. We got a game full of heroes
To be totally honest the thought never crossed my mind and I don't think it did for Sorian either unless he just never said anything to me. We didn't start reevaluating everything until our read on Ouro proved to be way off.
Heads up forewarning so nobody is caught off guard with this: I'm meeting some online friends for the first time on the 19th and 20th. Therefore, my activity will be a bit spotty on those days. I will have my phone on me tho, so I will not be completely gone and should be here for day's end.
I didn't even get to be here for the claim? Lame.
Because I'm not really convinced there is much bad that we can block at this point. I wasn't here for last day end so didn't get to comment on Flush and monkey but my theory is that they are town. Which leaves us with mailmen, silencers, and virgin so far. Blocking the mailman literally has 0 impact. Blocking the silencer is probably good the majority of the time. And blocking the virgin is an actual negative utility. At the end of the day, it's a 15 player game, the virgin is clearly the doctor role. The only thing missing is an investigative role of some sort. Meanwhile, we have two scum that have ??? for powers because I'm highly doubting they have a roleblocker too, why have both teams get a roleblocker but the town one is a hooker (unless there were two hookers but that sounds even dumber for the virgin role)?
They could have a role cop, that's honestly what I was expecting Ouro to be since he knew that he had been roleblocked since night 1 which is why his claim wasn't odd to me since they had time to craft a fake one around that fact. Past that, I don't know. Ouro was all in on the loved being basically a goon but there isn't much left for scum to be so there could just be a goon too.
Trust me, I've been debating this point for awhile. I already knew we had a weird role for town which is why I wasn't quick to think the silencers were scum. Seeing a scum flip loved and I figured it's more clear we were getting a game with standard roles reversed.
To be 100% transparent with the Kark block, a lot of it came because we discussed it at first and then it just kind of stuck since both of us weren't able to link back up to talk in chat due to conflicting schedules. I even asked late last night while I was at work if maybe we shouldn't even bother blocking but Saw never saw the post before actions were locked in and I figured it would be rude to rescind the action without some input.
Also, I saw no reason to claim yesterday. I was basically smacking all of you in the face with the hammer of soft claims and I figured Ouro dead as scum means we'd be able to to start treating night phases as investigative checks which obviously means we'd want to stay unclaimed as long as possible. Honestly, I'd probably have still stayed unclaimed now but I did tell Saw that we probably need to claim earlier rather than later because a town hooker claim at a day end was going to be completely mobbed and she was already getting antsy at the trash talk a potential town hooker was getting yesterday.
Because I'm not really convinced there is much bad that we can block at this point. I wasn't here for last day end so didn't get to comment on Flush and monkey but my theory is that they are town. Which leaves us with mailmen, silencers, and virgin so far. Blocking the mailman literally has 0 impact. Blocking the silencer is probably good the majority of the time. And blocking the virgin is an actual negative utility. At the end of the day, it's a 15 player game, the virgin is clearly the doctor role. The only thing missing is an investigative role of some sort. Meanwhile, we have two scum that have ??? for powers because I'm highly doubting they have a roleblocker too, why have both teams get a roleblocker but the town one is a hooker (unless there were two hookers but that sounds even dumber for the virgin role)?
They could have a role cop, that's honestly what I was expecting Ouro to be since he knew that he had been roleblocked since night 1 which is why his claim wasn't odd to me since they had time to craft a fake one around that fact. Past that, I don't know. Ouro was all in on the loved being basically a goon but there isn't much left for scum to be so there could just be a goon too.
Trust me, I've been debating this point for awhile. I already knew we had a weird role for town which is why I wasn't quick to think the silencers were scum. Seeing a scum flip loved and I figured it's more clear we were getting a game with standard roles reversed.
To be 100% transparent with the Kark block, a lot of it came because we discussed it at first and then it just kind of stuck since both of us weren't able to link back up to talk in chat due to conflicting schedules. I even asked late last night while I was at work if maybe we shouldn't even bother blocking but Saw never saw the post before actions were locked in and I figured it would be rude to rescind the action without some input.
Also, I saw no reason to claim yesterday. I was basically smacking all of you in the face with the hammer of soft claims and I figured Ouro dead as scum means we'd be able to to start treating night phases as investigative checks which obviously means we'd want to stay unclaimed as long as possible. Honestly, I'd probably have still stayed unclaimed now but I did tell Saw that we probably need to claim earlier rather than later because a town hooker claim at a day end was going to be completely mobbed and she was already getting antsy at the trash talk a potential town hooker was getting yesterday.
Also, I'm fine with this Star logic. I've said many times, I don't know how to read here because her play is always honest I guess? The mistakes she makes are clearly real, I don't think she'd make less of them as scum so it's harder to read. That said, I do still think there was a busser in the group of Xbro, Trigger, and nin1000. Wouldn't be surprised if both teams are in here.
For now I am going to
VOTE: Trigger
Because I haven't spent nearly enough time here and that's bothered me. Ty is always one that I go back and forth on when trying to read and he's been the face of the team for awhile. I haven't exactly gotten full town read from him and Trigger coming out for that vote makes it feel like they knew they had to be there for it.
-------
Also, i realize I glazed over Crimson's question because I saw that out claim happened. I'm not sure how else I can explain my votes so far. Orb at the end of day 1 was me trying to make a second wagon happen. I took who was in second place and propped them up more. Darryl tied Kitsune with Orb seconds before I voted Orb, could I have switched? Sure but I wasn't going to start flip flopping the second wagon since that tells me nothing, there are no stakes if the top wagon is still secure.
Day 2, I thought both kitsune and Ouro were scum and wanted to put scummates in a no win situation. kitsune lynch did not need my help for steam, it was all there already and. again, I want the competing lynch because no matter how sure I am, I can be wrong (shock) and didn't just want a barrel over on kitsune and potentially end up with another town lynch but with no real info. My day 3 is clear, theory 1 was right on kitsune, I now want to push over to theory 2 and lynch Ouro. Obviously I knew he was blocked and he clearly did too since he brought it up but that doesn't mean anything. Me blocking him or him knowing doesn't suddenly make him town. The fact that we're hookers who sat on him twice should also answer pretty much everything about the "weird" theories.
For now I am going to
VOTE: Trigger
Because I haven't spent nearly enough time here and that's bothered me. Ty is always one that I go back and forth on when trying to read and he's been the face of the team for awhile. I haven't exactly gotten full town read from him and Trigger coming out for that vote makes it feel like they knew they had to be there for it.
-------
Also, i realize I glazed over Crimson's question because I saw that out claim happened. I'm not sure how else I can explain my votes so far. Orb at the end of day 1 was me trying to make a second wagon happen. I took who was in second place and propped them up more. Darryl tied Kitsune with Orb seconds before I voted Orb, could I have switched? Sure but I wasn't going to start flip flopping the second wagon since that tells me nothing, there are no stakes if the top wagon is still secure.
Day 2, I thought both kitsune and Ouro were scum and wanted to put scummates in a no win situation. kitsune lynch did not need my help for steam, it was all there already and. again, I want the competing lynch because no matter how sure I am, I can be wrong (shock) and didn't just want a barrel over on kitsune and potentially end up with another town lynch but with no real info. My day 3 is clear, theory 1 was right on kitsune, I now want to push over to theory 2 and lynch Ouro. Obviously I knew he was blocked and he clearly did too since he brought it up but that doesn't mean anything. Me blocking him or him knowing doesn't suddenly make him town. The fact that we're hookers who sat on him twice should also answer pretty much everything about the "weird" theories.
hey_monkey
Banned
Sorian, if Trigger/Ty are one scum team, who's the last one? That's what I can't figure. I'm curious what you think. Curious to hear fran's theory, too.
acohrs: Surely by now you have some thoughts, eh? I know this claim throws a new wrench in, but I'd like to hear from you or rac. Even just a solid observation or two. We all need to get a sense of where you guys stand.
I have thoughts around this role claim and I need to let them gel a little because I feel like there's some small clue right under my nose. Was planning on reading all of this thoroughly and doing some backreading but I've had a VERY long week and I'm exhausted. Gonna take a little nap and then see what I can parse.
acohrs: Surely by now you have some thoughts, eh? I know this claim throws a new wrench in, but I'd like to hear from you or rac. Even just a solid observation or two. We all need to get a sense of where you guys stand.
I have thoughts around this role claim and I need to let them gel a little because I feel like there's some small clue right under my nose. Was planning on reading all of this thoroughly and doing some backreading but I've had a VERY long week and I'm exhausted. Gonna take a little nap and then see what I can parse.
Why are you looking for the third scum when we still haven't found the second?
Not really. But 3 is the more logic number. 2 is too low and 4 seems too much.
How long do Gafia games usually last? It would take 6 days for a 3 man scum team to win on a perfect run.
I'm not even formally accusing Trigger and Ty yet. I know they have been mostly in a blind spot for me and I think there is one or both scum in those last minute votes on kitsune so I want to hear more from the ones that I haven't really pressured at all. I haven't gotten much from Kark either but at least I still like Xbro.
It's likely 3, no way its only 2 and 4 sounds high unless there has been some neutral working things behind the scenes and they naturally lean towards town alignment. 6 days sounds normal.
I'm honestly feeling really unsure of my reads right now. I think I need to try and scrap it and do a reread of the thread but I don't think I'd have time to until Saturday. I came into today feeling pretty good about Star and Royal being scum. My strongest reasoning on Star is shot to shit. I would still lean towards Royal as being scum but maybe my reads are just bad this game. I don't know if this game would be designed with almost all town PRs being worthless or having a big drawback. Hooker would be a decently strong one even with the chance of hitting the virgin, but giving town the silencer seems guaranteed to just backfire on town more often than not. Due to that I could see it actually being scum since it would make a decent scum role, but I'm not sure if it would be limited in that scenario. Just sort of rambling, but the quietness in the thread has me uneasy so I figured I'd at least share what my perspective is currently.
Plus my lover is still MIA
The upside to a town hooker makes it easier to accept, the best case of it is quite good. The silencer just feels underwhelming if it's a town power. Limited and the "best case" is scum have a couple day phases in which they play in a manner that a recent game just was by default.
The silencer almost sounds like it was conceived to be a pseudo cop. I read it after the day phase had ended so maybe I'm remembering wrong but wasn't the whole point a potential gotcha moment on how town and scum had different time frames of being silenced? Or at least that's how Flush was hoping to play it?
That's kind of how I took it; That he wanted to play it as a pseudo cop, but then second guessed himself when Burb referenced Love Boat 1. Assuming of course he's telling the truth.
before the claim, I was scumreading Sawneeks based on my exposure to this game so far. Her prod vote of rac (and me) reminded me of when we first played together so many moons ago. Since the claim though, I'm not sure, might have been more a nostalgia/meta read.
There are two other pairs that interest me though, need to read more into them.
There are two other pairs that interest me though, need to read more into them.
How do you feel about StarBro?
hey_monkey
Banned
I'm also feeling really unsure about my reads and my nap turned into "sleep all night," so I'm gonna do some re-reading this morning before work and between meetings today, because I just don't really suspect many people here for reasons I think are strong enough and that in and of itself is a problem. Blind spots, too; I felt pretty strongly about Schmuffin but that's shot because it's like starting all over again with racohrs. Star is such a null. Kark is pretty null, though it doesn't look like scum got silenced that day, so probably town. Nomadic is pretty null. That's a big chunk of the game.
As for the silencer, yeah, pseudo cop is how Flush started it and I picked it up with him. Silencing town sucks if you miss but it's not the end of the world. Silencing scum would have been a big hit if Brexit was any indication. I would never second-guess my boo but I don't think I would have been on board with the xKark silence n1, though I understand why he did it.
hey_monkey
Banned
So just thinking about roles so far, if we assume everyone is telling the truth (because why not):
scum: loved
town: mailmen, hooker, virgins, silencer
meta: real lovers versus weird shippers
Just thinking about the way things fit together. This is what's been nagging at me, like there's something here I'm missing. I'd wonder if we didn't have some kind of voyeur/follower/stalker type but if so I'm guessing they haven't hit anything so far and so are staying quiet. I feel like it would fit. But that's just base speculation. I'm just curious where that leaves us in terms of scum roles.
Gonna start re-reading the stuff from today that I only had time to skim.
scum: loved
town: mailmen, hooker, virgins, silencer
meta: real lovers versus weird shippers
Just thinking about the way things fit together. This is what's been nagging at me, like there's something here I'm missing. I'd wonder if we didn't have some kind of voyeur/follower/stalker type but if so I'm guessing they haven't hit anything so far and so are staying quiet. I feel like it would fit. But that's just base speculation. I'm just curious where that leaves us in terms of scum roles.
Gonna start re-reading the stuff from today that I only had time to skim.
How about we start taking about nomadic sparks?
I tried to confront him ( bad time around the end of the day ) yesterday but he just gave me vibes that came of as really off putting.
Will quote in a bit since i am now off to work.
Vote: nomadic sparks
The way you have been coasting avoiding questions and especially the day end yesterday put me in this position to vote for you.
Hope that you will at least give a damn now.
CrimsonFist
Member
That sounds about right, but it's a really weak pseudo cop if Burb was evasive about whether scum would be given the info to fake claim blocked or not.
CrimsonFist
Member
If everyone's telling the truth, that's probably about it for town roles, maybe one other, but it covers protective and investigative, and a few fluffy mostly useless things.
And now I remember what's missing: Anything to interact with the shipping pairs. So far they've been exclusively flavour, I thought there would be some sort of role or mechanic to go along with those.
No sign of any neutral activity at all unless the silencers are neutral or something too.
Acohrs, now that you are here:
Is this true? Did Kark gambits help you find scum in Just Mafia?
Is this true? Did Kark gambits help you find scum in Just Mafia?
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