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MasterOfPastures
Banned
(05-18-2017, 10:19 PM)
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THat last AtV.... damn. It's a featurette worthy of it's own thread here... if we didnt already know how those usually went down.
E3, or whenever they show off a SQ42 demo, can't come soon enough!
Shrike Alvaron
Member
(05-18-2017, 10:26 PM)
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Haven't really been keeping up with this lately but just got an email about some exclusive preview for the Eclipse, Reddit says it only went out to concierge members or something. Here's the picture for those who can't wait a day to see it. The "warbond" purchase (think that means no credits?) is $250.

I've really sunk far too much in this game than I'd like so I'm pretty much passing on everything from here on out. I saw the news about CCU changes and went ahead to finalize my ship lineup, since I hadn't yet applied the various CCUs I've collected. Now I have a Carrack, Constellation Andromeda, Sabre, 350R, Herald, Avenger Titan, Mustang Beta, and Dragonfly. At times I've regretted spending so much on the game, but it is what it is. I haven't even really played in the PU or anything since I keep waiting for the game to get to a more complete state. Hopefully it turns into something I'll enjoy. Until then, the only way I'll be getting new ships is by melting/upgrading what I currently have.
KKRT00
Member
(05-18-2017, 10:31 PM)
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https://fat.gfycat.com/ImmediateMind...asesponge.webm

https://zippy.gfycat.com/BestHugeHookersealion.webm

---
Ps. I watched AtV first and Destiny 2 trailer later, it was not pretty ;p
KOCMOHABT
Member
(05-18-2017, 10:34 PM)
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"our lighting is 100% physically correct"

I love your stuff guys, but I think not even movie CGI has 100% physically correct lighting :D

Great stuff though. Interesting that they talked about integrating some Signed Distance Fields into the engine, too. Seems like a real craze lately

The new fog is interesting, it's certainly a hot research topic for all engines. I wonder how cheap it is right now, the quality was most likely not final. Jaggies and resolution artifacts were clearly visible in the demonstration. Pretty cool though.
Since they are so ambitious with being physically plausible I wonder if fog actually dims the light that reaches the opaque surfaces.

What impressed me, too, actually was the light (with the Star citizen logo) being projected onto the smoke particles. This quality for transparent objects seems almost inconceivable, usually stuff like this is handled with very fuzzy, low res light approximations
XPE
Member
(05-18-2017, 10:36 PM)
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Come on CIG put planetary gameplay into our hands already =)
Dictator93
Member
(05-18-2017, 11:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by KOCMOHABT

What impressed me, too, actually was the light (with the Star citizen logo) being projected onto the smoke particles. This quality for transparent objects seems almost inconceivable, usually stuff like this is handled with very fuzzy, low res light approximations

https://fat.gfycat.com/GlamorousJitteryFrigatebird.webm

Projector light textures also projecting onto particles is cool, and it looks surprisingly high quality like you mention (also notice how the smoke particles are physically bending with torque when movement is applied to the emitter). I can already imagine some great artist tricks there to make some environments look very very cool. You could get some very itneresting blade runner kind of environments with that... It also makes me wonder if the frustrum aligned voxel fog also can have the proector texture from a spot light project 'through it'. That could give you a cool way too fake stained glass or just have a individual light beams of different colour cutting through the fog from an RGB light, for example.
Vigilant Walrus
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 02:46 AM)
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Wait... the sun is the actual key light source down on a planet?


That's unbelievable. How the fuck is that even possible?
Zalusithix
Member
(05-19-2017, 03:03 AM)
Since nobody's done it yet... The culmination of lighting, fog, planetside, and the Reclaimer.

WebM version

Edit: And the floodlight frontal shot, because it just looks so badass:
tuxfool
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:28 AM)

Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

Wait... the sun is the actual key light source down on a planet?


That's unbelievable. How the fuck is that even possible?

Sun is a light source as any other. What makes the planetary lighting cool is that all the atmospheric scattering of light is done in real time dynamically.
crazysapertonight
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:32 AM)

Originally Posted by Zalusithix

Since nobody's done it yet... The culmination of lighting, fog, planetside, and the Reclaimer.

WebM version

Edit: And the floodlight frontal shot, because it just looks so badass:

Is this realtime?
Zalusithix
Member
(05-19-2017, 05:19 AM)

Originally Posted by crazysapertonight

Is this realtime?

Impossible to say for sure. It's certainly in engine, but whether that branch of the engine is optimized enough right now to run such a scene in real time on reasonable hardware is conjecture. Most of what CIG shows is running in real time (like the previous webms), but unless I see a debug overlay or it being interacted with on ATV, I don't take that as a given. That said, even if it's not running in real time right now, it's certainly the goal to get it so.
trugc
Member
(05-19-2017, 05:40 AM)
So what's the difference between Lumberyard's volumetric fog and Cryengine's one? Seems their particle tech is based on somthing similar(ray marching voxel).
iHaunter
Member
(05-19-2017, 05:51 AM)
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New ship Eclipse!

Dubbedinenglish
Banned
(05-19-2017, 05:57 AM)
It's backwards
pottuvoi
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by crazysapertonight

Is this realtime?

Most likely, it should be quite efficient.

Love the summed ray method they use to prepare the final texture from which scene is sampled.
Basically you sum the light/fog contribution from eye outwards and add the change between voxels to the next.
This is done in voxel resolution, not final screen resolution so it's lot faster and has some additional benefits like an ability to take two values from different distances and tell lighting and total density change between them. (IE. 38-15=23)

Quality of stream was quite crappy, but I really hope they have or will add screenspace scattering to fog. (When light travels trough fog and scatters and makes things look blurrier further in fog.)
Should give even stronger impression when something creeps out from mist. (IE. Sathanas in Freespace2.)
Rains
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:06 AM)
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i am confused about this game is it in early access and did a read that right $100 for a ship how does that work is the base game free and you have too spend Money on ships or do you buy the game and ships the 2nd seems a joke
ryousuke
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

Wait... the sun is the actual key light source down on a planet?


That's unbelievable. How the fuck is that even possible?

That's what I understood too. This is incredible.
the power of the light source must be extremely high, but at the same time it shouldn't otherwise it would be way too bright on the surface of planets, and the dark side would be pitch black. Maybe they're using the atmosphere of each planet to tweak the light emited by the sun I don't know.

And the new fog, it's amazing. It feels way more natural. Even though it may be a bit too thick sometimes, especially when they showed inside a ship.
pottuvoi
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Rains

i am confused about this game is it in early access and did a read that right $100 for a ship how does that work is the base game free and you have too spend Money on ships or do you buy the game and ships the 2nd seems a joke

Star Citizen is in alpha phase.

You buy either or both of the games with real money. (And possibly a ship/s to use in MMO.)
Singleplayer = Squadron 42 (Wing Commander like military campaign, not in early access yet.)
MMO = Star Citizen

In Star Citizen you will be able to earn in game money which you can use to buy ships. (After needed components are implemented.)

Originally Posted by ryousuke

That's what I understood too. This is incredible.
the power of the light source must be extremely high, but at the same time it shouldn't otherwise it would be way too bright on the surface of planets, and the dark side would be pitch black. Maybe they're using the atmosphere of each planet to tweak the light emited by the sun I don't know.

Sun must be bright and large area light source.
Light Sources should have realistic values when using PBR or things look wrong. (Candle being brighter than sun, etc.)
What comes to bright day and dark night, it's up to tonemapping to fit it properly to screen. (And GI/Atmospheric scattering and additional lightsources to give some light.)

It should be given that atmosphere affects light that goes through it. (PBR)
Reflecting some of the light to space and some getting to surface of planet thus causing change in light conditions for different times of day. (Sunsets etc, should be 'easy' to get values from scattering function.)
Rains
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by pottuvoi

Star Citizen is in alpha phase.

You buy either or both of the games with real money. (And possibly a ship/s to use in MMO.)
Singleplayer = Squadron 42 (Wing Commander like military campaign, not in early access yet.)
MMO = Star Citizen

In Star Citizen you will be able to earn in game money which you can use to buy ships. (After needed components are implemented.)

Thanks so i can earn money in game to buy ships instead of real money
Dictator93
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:14 AM)
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Well that answers my question, cool :)

Projectors on particles happened at the same time as shadows on them (similar tech). Projectors on fog work but only at fog resolution obvs

pottuvoi
Member
(05-19-2017, 10:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Rains

Thanks so i can earn money in game to buy ships instead of real money

When the persistent economy has been properly implemented, yes. (So, not yet.)
Zalusithix
Member
(05-19-2017, 02:05 PM)

Originally Posted by ryousuke

Even though it may be a bit too thick sometimes, especially when they showed inside a ship.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the density shown in the ships. Hopefully that's entirely for demonstration purposes. The only time there should be that much vapor/particulate in the air is when there's something wrong with the ship.

Originally Posted by iHaunter

New ship Eclipse!

We have a leaker here! =P *Revokes iHaunter's TOP SECRET clearance*
staticneuron
Member
(05-19-2017, 02:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by ryousuke

And the new fog, it's amazing. It feels way more natural. Even though it may be a bit too thick sometimes, especially when they showed inside a ship.

I think that is because it is not fog, inside of a ship it would be smoke to represent a damage state. I am sure it is to make the situation even more scary since you are in a ship that is in a vacuum, so no way to adequately get rid of smoke.

EDIT: Closest I would imagine is a fire inside a submarine

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-fire/1990663/

Eric Hardy, a shipyard firefighter who suffered back and shoulder injuries fighting the blaze, called it the worst fire he had ever seen.

"The best way I could describe it, sir, is fighting a fire in a wood stove and climbing down a chimney," Hardy told the judge.

Hardy said the smoke inside the sub was so thick he couldn't see more than a foot and his flashlight was virtually useless.

pottuvoi
Member
(05-19-2017, 02:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by staticneuron

I think that is because it is not fog, inside of a ship it would be smoke to represent a damage state. I am sure it is to make the situation even more scary since you are in a ship that is in a vacuum, so no way to adequately get rid of smoke.

It certainly should be interesting to be within a burning ship with smoke starting to build up.
Vigilant Walrus
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 03:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by tuxfool

Sun is a light source as any other. What makes the planetary lighting cool is that all the atmospheric scattering of light is done in real time dynamically.

But.. how the hell can this light source travel all the way to the planet. I guess that's what I don't understand. If they turn the sun off in a solar system, all planet would be darkened like they would if our sun evaporated in the real world?


I assumed that you'd go to a planet and each planet would have its own unique skybox with its own unique sun.


Will planets rotate? does anyone know this? so the the opposite side of the planet will be night?
Zalusithix
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:23 PM)

Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

Will planets rotate? does anyone know this? so the the opposite side of the planet will be night?

Planets will rotate and thus derive their day/night cycle from that rotation. Whether there will be orbital mechanics in addition to that is still up in the air AFAIK.
Rains
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:30 PM)
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This game looks and sounds amazing anyone know when its going to be fully completed from what i have read its been in dev for years
tuxfool
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:33 PM)

Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

But.. how the hell can this light source travel all the way to the planet. I guess that's what I don't understand. If they turn the sun off in a solar system, all planet would be darkened like they would if our sun evaporated in the real world?


I assumed that you'd go to a planet and each planet would have its own unique skybox with its own unique sun.


Will planets rotate? does anyone know this? so the the opposite side of the planet will be night?

-Yes, if you don't have any other light source, without the sun a planet is dark. It remains to be seen what their solution will be for things like light reflecting off moons, they're considering a few options there each with some different trade-offs.

-Yes, planets will rotate, maybe even orbit.
Zalusithix
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:34 PM)

Originally Posted by Rains

This game looks and sounds amazing anyone know when its going to be fully completed from what i have read its been in dev for years

You're looking at years more for SC to hit a final release. We're still in alpha phase with many of the systems yet to come online. Alpha 3.0 should hit relatively soon which will be a big milestone, but there's a lot more to be done after that.
Danthrax
Batteries the CRISIS!
(05-19-2017, 05:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by iHaunter

New ship Eclipse!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/m...tation-007.jpg

Yeah, that looks like an F-117 alright
Gen.Grievous
Member
(05-19-2017, 05:06 PM)

Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

Wait... the sun is the actual key light source down on a planet?


That's unbelievable. How the fuck is that even possible?

http://i.imgur.com/Cs39K3i.gifv

It's an old gif though. Some things in the newish engine might be different.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
(05-19-2017, 05:16 PM)

Originally Posted by Danthrax

Yeah, that looks like an F-117 alright

Eh they were trying for more of a B-2 spirit or RQ-170 Sentinel. Still looks like it is backwards lol.
Graphics Horse
graphics horse
graphics horse
does whatever a
graphics horse does
(05-19-2017, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

But.. how the hell can this light source travel all the way to the planet. I guess that's what I don't understand. If they turn the sun off in a solar system, all planet would be darkened like they would if our sun evaporated in the real world?


I assumed that you'd go to a planet and each planet would have its own unique skybox with its own unique sun.

This is not much different to how a lot of games already work even if they don't involve space travel, eg. Horizon Zero dawn.
Last I heard they are still using a direction light for the sun for now, so find the vector between the centre of the sun and the centre of the planet once per frame and that gets used as the sunlight direction.
Danthrax
Batteries the CRISIS!
(05-19-2017, 05:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dubbedinenglish

Eh they were trying for more of a B-2 spirit or RQ-170 Sentinel. Still looks like it is backwards lol.

Well a Spirit looks like a Nighthawk, too, so it's all the same, really =P
Vigilant Walrus
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 08:00 PM)
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I'm a third person guy, so I found this really interesting. < The first thing I thought of was the first person mode in GTA5. It really does have that GoPro Forehead tilt haha.

It blows my mind that other first person shooters fake this. We can only hope that going forward, other games will use this tech. When SC is out, they should license all these tools to other developers as middleware.



Originally Posted by Graphics Horse

This is not much different to how a lot of games already work even if they don't involve space travel, eg. Horizon Zero dawn.
Last I heard they are still using a direction light for the sun for now, so find the vector between the centre of the sun and the centre of the planet once per frame and that gets used as the sunlight direction.

Right, but it's the scale of this. I never imagined that all the worlds within the same system would rotate their planets and use the same main light source as the largest key light.

I expected it would be like Horizon with just a lightsource in the skybox and that would be it.
Zalusithix
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:08 PM)

Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

Right, but it's the scale of this. I never imagined that all the worlds within the same system would rotate their planets and use the same main light source as the largest key light.

I expected it would be like Horizon with just a lightsource in the skybox and that would be it.

You have to remember how space to planetside is a seamless transition. You need the light source direction from space to match the direction in atmo to match the direction on the ground, no matter what your approach vector is.
Vigilant Walrus
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 08:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zalusithix

You have to remember how space to planetside is a seamless transition. You need the light source direction from space to match the direction in atmo to match the direction on the ground, no matter what your approach vector is.

Is there any game beside No Mans Sky that has seamless space-to-planet gameplay? Does NMS do this as well?

I'm trying to wrap my head around the logistics of all of this, because it seems pretty incredible. Like I want Neil Degrasse Tyson to explain it to me, haha xD
Newboi
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:38 PM)
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Are there any updates on vegetation? I remember CIG talking about showing off a planet that was highly forested. I would love to be able to land on a planet that had landmasses like the island Crysis 1 took place on, with the level of physics interactivity to boot. I loved being able to shoot down trees, then pick the them up!
Zalusithix
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:55 PM)

Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

Is there any game beside No Mans Sky that has seamless space-to-planet gameplay? Does NMS do this as well?

I'm trying to wrap my head around the logistics of all of this, because it seems pretty incredible. Like I want Neil Degrasse Tyson to explain it to me, haha xD

Unless things have changed in NMS, it's faked there. The planets don't rotate, and the "sun" skybox element rotates around the planet.
KKRT00
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(05-19-2017, 08:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vigilant Walrus

Is there any game beside No Mans Sky that has seamless space-to-planet gameplay? Does NMS do this as well?

I'm trying to wrap my head around the logistics of all of this, because it seems pretty incredible. Like I want Neil Degrasse Tyson to explain it to me, haha xD

I cant think of a game with lighting like SC. There same games with solar scale suns and seemless transitions to planets like Space Engine, Evochron or Elite (no atmospherics though), which also do not use Area Light for suns, just point lights.

NMS fakes their sun on the planets. Planets do not rotate at all in that game, sun just moves through the sky like most games like Skyrim for example.

---

Originally Posted by Graphics Horse

This is not much different to how a lot of games already work even if they don't involve space travel, eg. Horizon Zero dawn.
Last I heard they are still using a direction light for the sun for now, so find the vector between the centre of the sun and the centre of the planet once per frame and that gets used as the sunlight direction.

I know that Killzone SF, so probably also Horizon Zero Dawn, simulated area light sun to be at real distance from earth, but they do not factually have the sun on such distance.
In SC the sun is physically hundred thousands kilometers from planets.
iHaunter
Member
(05-20-2017, 04:55 AM)
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Derelict Starfarer Sneak Peak!
staticneuron
Member
(05-20-2017, 06:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zalusithix

Impossible to say for sure. It's certainly in engine, but whether that branch of the engine is optimized enough right now to run such a scene in real time on reasonable hardware is conjecture. Most of what CIG shows is running in real time (like the previous webms), but unless I see a debug overlay or it being interacted with on ATV, I don't take that as a given. That said, even if it's not running in real time right now, it's certainly the goal to get it so.

well....

Originally Posted by Ben Parry CIG

Its all done in-engine.

I asked Nate about that right after I saw it actually, wondering if it had seen some post-production, but it's just the engine running on some very high settings, having a bit of cinematic light placement here and there, that sort of thing.

I guess that is kinda an answer. Again no idea which version they are talking about and the optimizations.
Zabojnik
No, the other west!
(05-20-2017, 03:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

https://clips.twitch.tv/RenownedInex...ifyGingerPower

Vigilant Walrus
Junior Member
(05-20-2017, 03:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

https://clips.twitch.tv/RenownedInex...ifyGingerPower

Pomerlaw
Member
(05-20-2017, 04:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by iHaunter

Derelict Starfarer Sneak Peak!

I'd stay there for minutes doing fucking nothing lol
pottuvoi
Member
(05-21-2017, 05:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

https://clips.twitch.tv/RenownedInex...ifyGingerPower

A space gerbil.
iHaunter
Member
(05-22-2017, 05:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pomerlaw

I'd stay there for minutes doing fucking nothing lol

It's quite lovely.
Geist-
Member
(05-22-2017, 05:53 AM)

Originally Posted by KKRT00

https://clips.twitch.tv/RenownedInex...ifyGingerPower

Dictator93
Member
(05-23-2017, 11:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by tuxfool

-Yes, if you don't have any other light source, without the sun a planet is dark. It remains to be seen what their solution will be for things like light reflecting off moons, they're considering a few options there each with some different trade-offs.

Yeah this one is curious as to how they will handle it. There was one part of the most recent AtV where they showed this situation off, I think it was done primarily by probe capture and not a large area light like the sun (check out the moonlight glow from Crusader here on the planetoid surface).

The thing about moonlight glow though is it is stark enough at times to cause visible shadowing... I am curious how they could manage that... if at all. The picture above iwth the bounced light glow from Crusader (unless I am mistaking it for some other bounce light in the atmsophere) does not have any at all.


Originally Posted by tuxfool

-Yes, planets will rotate, maybe even orbit.

It already looks super fantastic.
https://fat.gfycat.com/ContentExcell...butterfly.webm
That makes me wonder a bit if the PlanetEd TOD settings change the planets orbit and tilt when you adjust sun settings - the inverse of what normal level editors do.

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