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DenogginizerOS · Nov 22, 2017

What if a person wastes hours of their life trying to get a Fatebringer in Destiny and is less productive or plays Diablo 3 for days and days to get the best loot? Or plays World of Warcraft every day and ignores friends and families? First of all, that is the gamers choice (or addiction). Second, when issues that concern the gaming community, people and developers respond. When the ability to spend tons of time and money on games digitally on consiles has come up in the past, the game companies responded with parental controls on accounts and awareness was raised about addiction. The simple solution to Battlefront 2 is remove the ability for a child to make purchases on the console by enacting a password that only the parent knows. If a grown up spends the money, then that is literally their choice (and their problem). I have played BF2 for several hours over the last few days and it is great Star Wars escapism and I have not spent one dime to level up my character not have I been tempted to do so.

DESTROYA · Nov 22, 2017

Good, instead of publishers looking for a way to squeeze every hard earned penny from your hands maybe they can put more effort into making a better game.

DenogginizerOS · Nov 22, 2017

DESTROYA said:
Good, instead of publishers looking for a way to squeeze every hard earned penny from your hands maybe they can put more effort into making a better game.

If you are referring to Battlefront 2, have you played it and what did you not like about it besides the loot boxes?

vesirott · Nov 22, 2017

Woo-Fu said:
You're confusing two different issues, and maybe they are too.

"Cosmetic is fine" is a comment on DLC, with direct comparison to pay-to-win.

As far as gambling goes, the big difference is whether or not you can buy those boxes with real-world currency. Which means you can have lootboxes without it being gambling as such, and/or not any different than other random-drops in-game, you just can't sell those boxes.

I dont think so. I am hinting at "lootboxes bought with money". Doesnt matter if its some special in game currency or direct money-to-box deal. Like I said, cosmetic or game balance changing items from real world money lootboxes are gambling. You pay for something and there is an RNG behind what you get. Gambling.
If the boxes are for in game currency which has no connection to real-world money then it falls outside of the scope of my argument.

LordRaptor · Nov 22, 2017

primovinny said:
So you would rather make someone with compulsion problems pay for content to be free than paying it yourself? Really classy mate...

Are you claiming that anyone who buys a lootcrate is doing so under "compulsion" and that their behaviour is "problematic"?
Because thats not just obvious horseshit, its deeply patronising too.

MilkyJoe said:
How is paying for a chance to get something not gambling? Do you hear yourself?

Do you understand the difference between "figurative" and "literal"?
Buying a Kinder Egg is figuratively gambling. It doesn't need governmental regulation even though its a total gamble what kind of toy is inside.

Getting dumped by someone you love figuratively kills you. You don't need to call the police to report a murder.

Dr. Mario said:
Like?

What's shittier than constantly being taking out of my immersion by gambling practices?

Pay to win dlc only weapons or abilities, community dividing map packs, damage 'boosters' consumables, deliberately grindy progression systems that are designed around buying EXP boosters, limiting allowed playtime with 'stamina timers'...

I mean, if you can't think of games that have shittier monetisation than Overwatch style "Just playing earns you lootcrates, but you can also buy them. All lootcrates are ultimately frivolous and non gameplay affecting." then good news, you're going to find out just how much shittier the alternatives can be.

If on the other hand you're sat there thinking, "Wow, this is great news, EA are going to do the work now and come up with additional funding that is so much fairer for everyone and will make games so much better"... well, here's a talk someone from EA did a while ago about how forum dwellers are full of shit and pay to win is the best selling kind of monetisation.

you goddamn marks.

Alebelly · Nov 22, 2017

Schrödinger's cat;253046531 said:
I'm working on a proven precedent, not fiction.

Reactionaries don't think about things fully. Then they complain about things when the reality of the situation dawns on them.

As someone who has enjoyed this hobby since the early 80s and seeing it transform from cottage to a global industry I saw, so many times, the wishes for computer games to be accepted by the mainstream, as a legitimate hobby that wasn't sneered at..

..and since that happened, the littany of complaints ranging from 'good old days' and 'filthy casuals' to 'it's all driven by profit' show that people should be careful about what they wish for.

Reactionaries... I kinda hate that, easily labeling a group or topic into one lump sum makes it easy to not participate and view things like some omniscient asshole. I get it though, you're not the only one thats seen things come and go.

Pila · Nov 22, 2017

Froz3n said:
This could mean price rises for games in the future as a result, or simply more games that eschew loot boxes and "randomess" in exchange for buying concrete items, i.e. just selling the items inside the crates in the first place.

Cool. Way better if you ask me.

Croatoan · Nov 22, 2017

If more countries do this so many mobile devs will be going out of business. I feel for the devs but not the designers. Creating gambling habits in games that have children playing them is absolutely aweful.

Wonder if I will finally just be able to buy a car skin in rocket league. Opened 20 crates and haven't gotten a single one.

Omoiyari · Nov 22, 2017

DenogginizerOS said:
What if a person wastes hours of their life trying to get a Fatebringer in Destiny and is less productive or plays Diablo 3 for days and days to get the best loot? Or plays World of Warcraft every day and ignores friends and families? First of all, that is the gamer's choice (or addiction). Second, when issues that concern the gaming community, people and developers respond. When the ability to spend tons of time and money on games digitally on consiles has come up in the past, the game companies responded with parental controls on accounts and awareness was raised about addiction. The simple solution to Battlefront 2 is remove the ability for a ”child' to make purchases on the console by enacting a password that only the parent knows. If a grown up spends the money, then that is literally their choice (and their problem). I have played BF2 for several hours over the last few days and it is great Star Wars escapism and I have not spent one dime to level up my character not have I been tempted to do so.

the two major issues of lootboxes are that they entice you to use real money to buy RANDOM loot and (most importantly imo) is the fact that most of these games are specifically targeted at minors, the two biggest players in this controversy, overwatch and battlefront 2, are rated T for teen for example.
Games Are Addicting, no doubt about that, but when real-money is introduced in a gambling-like system targeting minors it starts to become problematic.

rexpro · Nov 22, 2017

Night.Ninja said:
The prices of games will just go up

Why would they go up ? please explain.

DenogginizerOS · Nov 22, 2017

Croatoan said:
If more countries do this so many mobile devs will be going out of business. I feel for the devs but not the designers. Creating gambling habits in games that have children playing them is absolutely aweful.

Wonder if I will finally just be able to buy a car skin in rocket league. Opened 20 crates and haven't gotten a single one.

There is this place in America that is being promoted as a great place to take your family. It is called Las Vegas. We need Belgium to ban Vegas, too.

DenogginizerOS · Nov 22, 2017

thedrunkenchild said:
the two major issues of lootboxes are that they entice you to use real money to buy RANDOM loot and (most importantly imo) is the fact that most of these games are specifically targeted at minors, the two biggest players in this controversy, overwatch and battlefront 2, are rated T for teen for example.
Games Are Addicting, no doubt about that, but when real-money is introduced in a gambling-like system targeting minors it starts to become problematic.

Grocery stores and candy makers are jerks for creating all of these fat kids in the world who buy flashy yummy candy and sugary cereal in checkout lines along with Mountain Dew that they later consume while they nobly play through the wholesome time-sink that is Mario Odyssey while other kids are outside playing kickball in the cul-de-sac.

goldenpp72 · Nov 22, 2017

I hope the outcome of this doesn't prove worse then the issue itself. I do find it amusing that EA seems to always be at the front of anti consumer stuff. This and the online pass being the most recent examples.

Croatoan · Nov 22, 2017

DenogginizerOS said:
There is this place in America that is being promoted as a great place to take your family. It is called Las Vegas. We need Belgium to ban Vegas, too.

Lol wut? Children can't gamble in vegas either...

At the very least all games with loot boxes should be age gated and given a Mature rating. Not that that does much but it would at least be something.

Pila · Nov 22, 2017

Croatoan said:
Wonder if I will finally just be able to buy a car skin in rocket league. Opened 20 crates and haven't gotten a single one.

I'd love to buy some cool stuff for my main car but they won't lemme.

(._. )

Sell this stuff FFS, I'm not opening no crate.

Omoiyari · Nov 22, 2017

DenogginizerOS said:
Grocery stores and candy makers are jerks for creating all of these fat kids in the world who buy flashy yummy candy and sugary cereal in checkout lines along with Mountain Dew that they later consume while they nobly play through the wholesome time-sink that is Mario Odyssey while other kids are outside playing kickball in the cul-de-sac.

"The simple solution to Battlefront 2 is remove the ability for a ”child' to make purchases on the console by enacting a password that only the parent knows."
let me get this straight, are you suggesting that games like overwatch and battlefront should be rated 18+ to prevent children (at least on paper) to access the lootbox feature? if that's what you're saying I would actually agree, I'm not against lootboxes on their own, but I am against the practice of targeting minors with it.

Z3M0G · Nov 22, 2017

Pila said:
I'd love to buy some cool stuff for my main car but they won't lemme.

(._. )

Sell this stuff FFS, I'm not opening no crate.

I'd love to see numbers for how successful Dead or Alive 5 has been for NEVER resorting to this (loot crates). Cosmetics only, buy exactly what you want. BAM! Best model EVER. Game even has a F2P version where you can buy the specific fighters you want.

It feels like it was MASSIVELY successful, since they are on, what, year 3 or 4 of content for the same. damn. game.?

Warframe deserves massive props too. Though last time I logged in the store seemed very bare compared to 1+ years ago... so I'm not sure what they have been up to exactly...

DenogginizerOS · Nov 22, 2017

Croatoan said:
Lol wut? Children can't gamble in vegas either...

At the very least all games with loot boxes should be age gated and given a Mature rating. Not that that does much but it would at least be something.

But we market Vegas to them as a Family Friendly Place. They grow up thinking gambling is ok and family friendly cause daddy looks like James Bond losing at Blackjack or mommy looked so happy when she jumped up and down when the slot machine gave her $25 of the $50 she spent back in a ceremony of loud bells and whistles with shiny coins. Cmon Belgium, ban Vegas too!!

DenogginizerOS · Nov 22, 2017

thedrunkenchild said:
"The simple solution to Battlefront 2 is remove the ability for a child to make purchases on the console by enacting a password that only the parent knows."
let me get this straight, are you suggesting that games like overwatch and battlefront should be rated 18+ to prevent children (at least on paper) to access the lootbox feature? if that's what you're saying I would actually agree, I'm not against lootboxes on their own, but I am against the practice of targeting minors with it.

No, the parent can do that by using the thorough controls provided by consoles and can take the time to read the box that stating that the game has in-game purchases (that is if the kid doesnt respect mom or dad saying, Do not spend a dime inntgemis game, or if you do, you lose the PS4 for a month.)

Pila · Nov 22, 2017

Z3M0G said:
I'd love to see numbers for how successful Dead or Alive 5 has been for NEVER resorting to this (loot crates). Cosmetics only, buy exactly what you want. BAM! Best model EVER. Game even has a F2P version where you can buy the specific fighters you want.

It feels like it was MASSIVELY successful, since they are on, what, year 3 or 4 of content for the same. damn. game.?

Warframe deserves massive props too. Though last time I logged in the store seemed very bare compared to 1+ years ago... so I'm not sure what they have been up to exactly...

I'm afraid loot boxes make more money? I guess they all embrace them for a reason.

Sucks, good thing we still have games that respect the user.

Z3M0G · Nov 22, 2017

Pila said:
I'm afraid loot boxes make more money? I guess they all embrace them for a reason.

Sucks, good thing we still have games that respect the user.

Oh for sure they do, sadly. It's been a massive wave that has been coming since it has been uncontested in the Mobile space for quite some time... Pay-to-Win randomized loot items are absolutely STANDARD in Free-to-Play games now...

Pretty much every AAA mobile F2P RPG teases you with a few Low grade random gear items per day, one High grade random gear item per day, and hound you to pump in $$$ to buy more and get that stronger gear faster. You don't even need to play these games to gear up anymore, you only need to log in once per day.

There is a reason that "play timers" are completely gone in these games now... or where they do still exist, they throw those "stamina points" at you in abundance so it is a non issue. The real money is now in buying premium gear crates/chests/whatever.

tim_pkmn89 · Nov 22, 2017

This reminds me of how fictional in-game gambling forces a game to have a higher rating in the EU.

That's why the VC releases of Pokemon Red/Blue had a PEGI 12+ rating, and the feature was removed from every new game HGSS-onward.

Seems silly that fake gambling is controlled but real gambling isn't.

CaptainDreads · Nov 22, 2017

Full disclosure: I work in the gambling industry so am probably more liberal than most when it comes to gambling

To be honest, I think it's great that governments are starting to investigate loot boxes but I don't think they should be banned outright. Regulate instead.

In most of Europe there is legal gambling anyway (Belgium included) so why not regulate it in the same / a similar fashion?

My main problem with lootboxes isn't that they make bad games, it's that the wild west nature of it all at the moment allows them to very predatory. Especially towards children.

Bad games are just another reason to dislike them but I'm not morally against bad games!

Memorabilia · Nov 22, 2017

DenogginizerOS said:
But we market Vegas to them as a Family Friendly Place. They grow up thinking gambling is ok and family friendly cause daddy looks like James Bond losing at Blackjack or mommy looked so happy when she jumped up and down when the slot machine gave her $25 of the $50 she spent back in a ceremony of loud bells and whistles with shiny coins. Cmon Belgium, ban Vegas too!!

I'm not saying that I disagree with you on every point in prior posts... Because I can very easily see both sides of this argument. But... This particular post is total bullshit and by far the weakest part of your argument I've seen. When you post stuff like this it really detracts from your overall point because you're being intellectually dishonest here.

Alebrije · Nov 22, 2017

Well , hope this grows and more countries ban loot boxes or rate the games just for adults if developers use them.

BlitzerRadic · Nov 22, 2017

thedrunkenchild said:
the two major issues of lootboxes are that they entice you to use real money to buy RANDOM loot and (most importantly imo) is the fact that most of these games are specifically targeted at minors, the two biggest players in this controversy, overwatch and battlefront 2, are rated T for teen for example.
Games Are Addicting, no doubt about that, but when real-money is introduced in a gambling-like system targeting minors it starts to become problematic.

This same mechanic has existed for decades with baseball cards. Yet no one complains about that. Now its a problem and we have to "think of the children" because its in games that you play.

It's funny how the "think of the children" argument is always dismissed as a cop out except for now.

Z3M0G · Nov 22, 2017

tim_pkmn89 said:
Seems silly that fake gambling is controlled but real gambling isn't.

Real gambling is HEAVILY controlled / regulated / standardized / certified / etc.

Memorabilia · Nov 22, 2017

BlitzerRadic said:
This same mechanic has existed for decades with baseball cards. Yet no one complains about that. Now its a problem and we have to "think of the children" because its in games that you play.

It's funny how the "think of the children" argument is always dismissed as a cop out except for now.

Collectible cards can be traded and sold. And they often appreciate in value. There's a lot of other differences, but to me that's the big one. Real life cards also don't encourage (or even allow by their nature) rapid-fire, dopamine excitatory impulse buying like loot-boxes do. This false equivalency keeps getting thrown around and it needs to stop.

LordRaptor · Nov 22, 2017

Memorabilia said:
Collectible cards can be traded and sold. And they often appreciate in value. There's a lot of other differences, but to me that's the big one. Real life cards also don't encourage (or even allow by their nature) rapid-fire, dopamine excitatory impulse buying like loot-boxes do. This false equivalency keeps getting thrown around and it needs to stop.

So collectible cards are more like actual gambling, not less, as the reward has an intrinsic real world value.

Memorabilia · Nov 22, 2017

LordRaptor said:
So collectible cards are more like actual gambling, not less, as the reward has an intrinsic real world value.

Nope. You don't pull a slot and get instant dopamine rush from a physical card appearing in your hand. Try again. Christ, where do you people come up with these horrible arguments?

lefty1117 · Nov 22, 2017

DESTROYA said:
Good, instead of publishers looking for a way to squeeze every hard earned penny from your hands maybe they can put more effort into making a better game.

effort = money

Omoiyari · Nov 22, 2017

BlitzerRadic said:
This same mechanic has existed for decades with baseball cards. Yet no one complains about that. Now its a problem and we have to "think of the children" because its in games that you play.

It's funny how the "think of the children" argument is always dismissed as a cop out except for now.

the fact that no one complained about trading card games until now doesn't mean that it wasn't problematic, like sexual scandals in hollywood, the fact that nobody talked for decades doesn't make that behavior acceptable.
Also baseball cards ecc are not exactly like lootboxes because you are buying a physical tradable good that you own completely unlike virtual items that are only yours as long as the game servers keep running. I still consider them problematic because they also exploit the addicting properties of RNG risk/reward by introducing real money into the mix, but yeah I think all this shit is a wake up call for everybody and it's time we ask for widespread regulation for all kind of exploitative system targeting minor, whether it's trading card games or lootboxes.

LordRaptor · Nov 22, 2017

Memorabilia said:
Nope. You don't pull a slot and get instant dopamine rush from a physical card appearing in your hand. Try again. Christ, where do you people come up with these horrible arguments?

I'm sure you will find some way to reconcile this being the exact same thing as not being the exact same thing somehow though.
there's no lever I suppose.

amdb00mer · Nov 22, 2017

So now I'm reading that Belgium has actually NOT declared loot boxes gambling per say, although they still want to stop and remove them altogether. They are still investigating them though.

Omoiyari · Nov 22, 2017

LordRaptor said:
So collectible cards are more like actual gambling, not less, as the reward has an intrinsic real world value.

in a way you're right, but none of the two systems is better than the other really, one is more like gambling and the other makes you gamble for virtual goods with an expire date that you never really own, they're both shitty systems.

DenogginizerOS · Nov 22, 2017

Memorabilia said:
I'm not saying that I disagree with you on every point in prior posts... Because I can very easily see both sides of this argument. But... This particular post is total bullshit and by far the weakest part of your argument I've seen. When you post stuff like this it really detracts from your overall point because you're being intellectually dishonest here.

I disagree. People need to take responsibility for their actions, and my point on Vegas is just one of many examples of where people can try and find fault in something when it is a lack of control, communication, and discipline. The Vegas point is more in jest but it seems that we are drifting into realms of regulating people to the point it hinders others from enjoying something while losing their minds over Star cards and working to win.

Memorabilia · Nov 22, 2017

LordRaptor said:
I'm sure you will find some way to reconcile this being the exact same thing as not being the exact same thing somehow though.
there's no lever I suppose.

You have to actually PHYSICALLY DRIVE/WALK/BICYCLE to that location and stand in front of a vending machine and hang out standing/sitting in a store or lobby for how long with little to no other reason to engage just to get a physical card? You don't see the rather obvious difference between the effort and mechanism of the transaction requires vs playing a video game from the comfort of your couch designed to elicit non-stop dopamine reinforcement?

Yes there are similarities to all of these various sales tactics. But collecting physical items involves inherent differences. Those differences are what's up for debate here. You seem hell-bent on defending loot-boxes by any means necessary. I'll give u that. Lol

Memorabilia · Nov 22, 2017

DenogginizerOS said:
I disagree. People need to take responsibility for their actions, and my point on Vegas is just one of many examples of where people can try and find fault in something when it is a lack of control, communication, and discipline. The Vegas point is more in jest but it seems that we are drifting into realms of regulating people to the point it hinders others from enjoying something while losing their minds over Star cards and working to win.

The reason that aspect of your argument is weak is precisely because real life gambling is regulated. Anecdotally saying some parents characterize gambling as "cool" doesn't change that fact.

Mooreberg · Nov 22, 2017

DenogginizerOS said:
There is this place in America that is being promoted as a great place to take your family. It is called Las Vegas. We need Belgium to ban Vegas, too.

Casino gambling is highly regulated. What is going on now in gaming is pretty much the Wild West. It probably would have continued unimpeded until something like this happened. I am surprised Disney did not smack some sense into EA prior to release.

CadetMahoney · Nov 22, 2017

Speaking of the term "gambling". . . why does Japan's gambling laws ban winning money on games of skill (like streetfighter arcade tournaments)?

Seems like gambling laws can be very different depending on what jurisdiction you are on. Europe can change it to suit their needs if Japan can.

Ubername · Nov 22, 2017

Well, that definitely took long enough.

LordRaptor · Nov 22, 2017

Memorabilia said:
You have to actually PHYSICALLY DRIVE/WALK/BICYCLE to that location and stand in front of a vending machine and hang out standing/sitting in a lobby for how long with little to no other reason to engage to get a physical card. You don't see the rather obvious difference between the effort and mechanism of the transaction there vs playing a video game from the comfort of your couch designed to elicit non-stop dopamine reinforcement?

Yes there are similarities to all of these various sales tactics. But collecting physical items involves inherent differences. Those differences are what's up for debate here. You seem hell-bent on defending lootboxes by any means necessary. I'll give u that. Lol

Buying trading cards in a sealed pack is a blind purchase. You don't know what you will get, other than it is a trading card.
Buying lootbox cosmetics is a blind purchase. You don't know what you will get other than it is a cosmetic for that game.

They are literally the same concept. It is laughable to try and pretend that the physical nature of a trading card is hugely different to the digital nature of a skin or spray or voicepack.
To say that you have to go to a location to buy makes a huge difference to just buying virtually is absolutely ludicrous, because by your own defintions it makes actual gambling at an actual casino somehow less gambling than buying lootcrates.

Tosyn_88 · Nov 22, 2017

EA seems to earn a certain degree of notoriety compared to other publishers. I mean, it's not as if loot boxes were new or anything, I think it's that EA are usually badly advised on how to go about things.

There's always been a debate about how it's unethical to try charge more for full priced games. The DLC model had been adopted to work around this but there seem to be a push to include full price plus dlc plus microtransactions plus loot boxes.

DenogginizerOS · Nov 22, 2017

Memorabilia said:
The reason that aspect of your argument is weak is precisely because real life gambling is regulated. Anecdotally saying some parents characterize gambling as "cool" doesn't change that fact.

But parents and adults of sound mind can regulate themselves on whether or not to buy crystals, crates, unlocks; etc. We do not need a government entity adding another layer of regulation on something that is already set up to give consumers a heads up. These games state that there are in-game purchases on the box. What more do we need?

DenogginizerOS · Nov 22, 2017

Mooreberg said:
Casino gambling is highly regulated. What is going on now in gaming is pretty much the Wild West. It probably would have continued unimpeded until something like this happened. I am surprised Disney did not smack some sense into EA prior to release.

Have you tried the game since crystal purchases were disabled or talked with people who have? What are your thoughts on the game as far as progression and balanced gameplay?

Omoiyari · Nov 22, 2017

LordRaptor said:
Buying trading cards in a sealed pack is a blind purchase. You don't know what you will get, other than it is a trading card.
Buying lootbox cosmetics is a blind purchase. You don't know what you will get other than it is a cosmetic for that game.

They are literally the same concept. It is laughable to try and pretend that the physical nature of a trading card is hugely different to the digital nature of a skin or spray or voicepack.
To say that you have to go to a location to buy makes a huge difference to just buying virtually is absolutely ludicrous, because by your own defintions it makes actual gambling at an actual casino somehow less gambling than buying lootcrates.

is online blackjack more gambling than casino blackjack? you don't think that the immediacy and complete anonymity of the whole online process can make a significant difference in how the mind approaches the gambling?

Memorabilia · Nov 22, 2017

LordRaptor said:
Buying trading cards in a sealed pack is a blind purchase. You don't know what you will get, other than it is a trading card.
Buying lootbox cosmetics is a blind purchase. You don't know what you will get other than it is a cosmetic for that game.

They are literally the same concept. It is laughable to try and pretend that the physical nature of a trading card is hugely different to the digital nature of a skin or spray or voicepack.
To say that you have to go to a location to buy makes a huge difference to just buying virtually is absolutely ludicrous, because by your own defintions it makes actual gambling at an actual casino somehow less gambling than buying lootcrates.

Lol Man you're on a roll. The mechanism of HOW each transaction is completed and the speed of those transactions has a major bearing on the addictive nature of the mechanism. Basic physiology. But, hey, you do you!

Memorabilia · Nov 22, 2017

DenogginizerOS said:
But parents and adults of sound mind can regulate themselves on whether or not to buy crystals, crates, unlocks; etc. We do not need a government entity adding another layer of regulation on something that is already set up to give consumers a heads up. These games state that there are in-game purchases on the box. What more do we need?

Try taking a 16 yr old into a casino in Vegas sometime. I dare ya.

I don't necessarily disagree that govt regulation isn't always the best route. But some is necessary at times to protect the public good.

LordRaptor · Nov 22, 2017

thedrunkenchild said:
is online blackjack more gambling than casino blackjack?

No. Obviously not.
Its why it is such a terrible false equivalency.

e:
I mean, if you've ever been to a casino, you will know that the owners of a casino use extensive techniques to make a casino as welcoming and comfortable an environment to continue spending money in as possible.
an online casino is just you at home as per usual.

Memorabilia · Nov 22, 2017

LordRaptor said:
No. Obviously not.
Its why it is such a terrible false equivalency.

But, you're the one engaging in false equivalencies. Lol We're trying to say these things are more different than alike in certain ways...while you're trying to conflate loot boxes with collecting physical cards. THAT is a false equivalency, at least insofar as HOW the sales mechanism is conducted.

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