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OSHAN · Jan 20, 2014

Sir British · Jan 20, 2014

brianmcdoogle said:
And this is why Youtubers are awful and the gaming equivalent of mommy bloggers. They either A: give you what you want or B: get paid to say certain things or give certain coverage, and all without any transparency or disclosure.

I never understood why so many people follow these people in the first place.

Excuse you, but there are certain Youtubers that I follow and enjoy listening to because they provide different content to the mainstream game journalism. Not all of them are like that and it takes recommendation to go through.

TotalBiscuit is as transparent as you can get.

nib95 · Jan 20, 2014

Disgraceful. How utterly embarrassing for both Microsoft and Machinima. That's Machinima's reputation down the tube (no pun intended).

Replicant · Jan 20, 2014

Not surprised. This is on par with MS' other dirty tactics/shenanigans. I did wonder how low this company can go though when it comes to vile tactics. The answer seems to be: there's no bottom they can't/won't reach.

Gorillaz · Jan 20, 2014

caliblue15 said:
Have to give props for using a #kstate gif.

would have been a Osu one but couldn't find one

anyway astroturfing on youtube is as old as the site itself, was wondering when MS would step it up along with sony finally doing it themselves

this is just the beginning

FunkyPajamas · Jan 20, 2014

Takao said:
Why would people need to get paid to advertise the all-in-one Xbox One? With tremendous exclusive hits like Dead Rising 3, Ryse: Sons of Rome, Lococyle and upcoming exclusives like Halo 5, and Titanfall the games are all there. It even allows you to experience live TV like never before with the new Kinect sensor, and Snap functionality. Xbox One is a great buy.

lol

Recall · Jan 20, 2014

Microsoft gotta lie, cheat and steal its way to "victory"

pixlexic · Jan 20, 2014

Talamius said:
The problem (and possible FTC violation) stems from not actually disclosing you're being paid.

It's one thing to run an infomercial with a disclaimer that it's paid for by the company whose product is being pushed. That's 100% A-OK.

To push the product without disclosing that you're being paid to do so? Big no-no.

but its just random blogger you tubers. Not real media companies.

Anth0ny · Jan 20, 2014

christ

as long as they aren't paying anyone on gaf this doesn't effect me but how fucked are these guys? don't they realize at all how something like this can backfire? jeez.

Kikarian · Jan 20, 2014

SolidSnakex said:
Don't count on it. Someone posted the Machinima twitter account that posted this in the other thread and those commented on it seemed hyped about getting paid. Machinima was advertising it as the "easiest/best promo we've ever done!". Of course the CM that posted it deleted that tweet.

I wouldn't expect them too either. Like they said, it's easy money.

Sidewinder · Jan 20, 2014

sillymonkey321 said:
So is this what Major Nelson was referring to when he said online hate needs to stop?

lol, well done

MS just can't get a break, this will blow up in their faces all over the net and fast. 100 page thread is coming and maybe cboat will make an appearance.

Rebel Leader · Jan 20, 2014

kurbaan said:
This is youtube. You think the FTC actually applies to videos people put up? This isn't tv.

but what if there is a youtube app on my tv? It's on TV

=D

Speedy Blue Dude · Jan 20, 2014

BocoDragon said:
So you like it because you are getting paid for it.

Isn't it nice that we know you're getting paid so we can put your viewpoint in the proper context?

Nah. I don't even get 100 views a video, on average. I'm a small channel that does all this for fun, but I'm just thinking about this from the viewpoint of a video creator.

Microsoft's paycheck to me will be a stunning $10 at most if I actually manage to get views. But seriously my latest videos all average at 200 views.

I would like to get paid, because, hey, easy money. But I'm so small I probably won't even get $3. I will make videos a lot this month though, mostly because I'm starting a new channel with friends for fun and what not. Fun fact, my other two friends only bought the Xbox One over the PS4 because they can't use the PS4 for YouTube as of now. I hope they fix this before Second Son, cause I want to make a review/Let's Play of it.

bishoptl · Jan 20, 2014

BocoDragon said:
So you like it because you are getting paid for it.

Isn't it nice that we know you're getting paid so we can put your viewpoint in the proper context?

ohohoho

SEGAvangelist · Jan 20, 2014

Chobel said:
MS defense force please read this

Now please come with better arguments than "Sony too!™" and "It's perfectly fine"

Or settle down and wait and see what happens once more facts are available. You're just trying to bait console warriors right now.

Nilaul · Jan 20, 2014

jschreier said:
Can you wait ~15 minutes?

Yeah.

________

So at the rate of this shady stuff appearing; You reckon Microsoft will get its console banned?

MormaPope · Jan 20, 2014

la flama blanca · Jan 20, 2014

fantomena said:
MS defense force incoming.

Expect more posts in a different fortress thread.

pixlexic · Jan 20, 2014

fastford58 said:
Absolutely you can't trust the content, but no one company has been this balls deep stupid as of yet. MS may just be the first to get caught and called on it (about par for the course over the last year).

I will agree with that! lol

Marauder Shields · Jan 20, 2014

Damn I would have been cool with this if the casters had been able to just disclose that they were being paid by MS to advertise for them. This, as reported, is pretty shady.

Although if all vids have to have to tag "XB1M13", then surely it would be pretty easy to figure out who was being paid by MS.

Quadraphonic · Jan 20, 2014

anexanhume said:
Quote relevant text?

Sorry. I linked to the wrong article.

Here: http://www.ftc.gov/policy/federal-r...-endorsements-and-testimonials-advertising-16

It's a 27 page PDF answering all these questions. It's long and boring.

Chobel · Jan 20, 2014

Speedy Blue Dude said:
I disagree with the "positive" part, because Microsoft isn't targeting and going after negative comments or negativity in general. Nor should they. If people think the Xbox One is a garbage system, they should be free to say so in videos, forum posts, tweets, etc what they believe. Microsoft is only supporting those who have positive opinions, which doesn't overshadow (and once again, shouldn't overshadow) negative opinions.

The problem isn't the positive part, it's non disclosure part. Everyone who applied to this is obligated by law to disclose that he's promoting Xbone and he's getting paid for it. This assignment says don't disclose that, it's illegal.

ironcreed · Jan 20, 2014

I still plan to get an Xbox One, but this is slimy as can be. It's not surprising at all, either.

Fracas · Jan 20, 2014

Speedy Blue Dude said:
I don't see the problem with this. All Microsoft is doing is paying and supporting the content creators supporting them. If other content creators who aren't fond of the Xbox Brand, decide to jump aboard and sell out on their personal beliefs for money, that's their fault and Microsoft's gain.

Just like any business contract, which this is, by the way, you aren't legally allowed to discuss the terms, conditions, or what you receive from it, so whatever.

The "you can't be negative about the Xbox One and it must be relevant" part also makes sense, why would the support you trashing their product? Besides, it's necessary. You already saw some posts on GAF discuss loopholes and ways to get money from Microsoft without doing anything. "Put it at the end of a totally unrelated video! Make a video discussing this bullshit and make money since it's about the Xbox One! Tall badly about the Xbox One and tag the video so you get paid!"

Can't blame Microsoft.

As a content creator and YouTuber myself, my channel is already practically a Xbox only channel (thanks Sony for making it so hard and BS to capture PS3 footage! And thanks even more for not allowing PS4 footage at all!), so I'm just getting paid for doing what I already do, I don't see the negative. Microsoft is just supporting those supporting them.

I know you're being sarcastic, and the hidden tag is hilarious, but seriously I sort of agree.

Come on man, this is downright filthy. Microsoft is literally buying ads that are disguised as neutral content.

weevles · Jan 20, 2014

I'm ok with shilling for MS, but I'm pretty sure you cannot hide that you are advertising/promoting MS or otherwise mislead that you are getting paid to promote them.

ZealousD · Jan 20, 2014

Quadraphonic said:
I am 100% sure that's an FTC violation.

http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pres...ises-online-advertising-disclosure-guidelines

Example 7 even gives an example of how a video game blogger would have to disclose their relationship to a console manufacturer.

Yeah, this isn't just shady as fuck.

It's downright illegal.

Example 7: A college student who has earned a reputation as a video game expert
maintains a personal weblog or “blog” where he posts entries about his gaming
experiences. Readers of his blog frequently seek his opinions about video game hardware
and software. As it has done in the past, the manufacturer of a newly released video game
system sends the student a free copy of the system and asks him to write about it on his
blog. He tests the new gaming system and writes a favorable review. Because his review is
disseminated via a form of consumer-generated media in which his relationship to the
advertiser is not inherently obvious, readers are unlikely to know that he has received the
video game system free of charge in exchange for his review of the product, and given the
value of the video game system, this fact likely would materially affect the credibility they
attach to his endorsement. Accordingly, the blogger should clearly and conspicuously
disclose that he received the gaming system free of charge. The manufacturer should
advise him at the time it provides the gaming system that this connection should be
disclosed, and it should have procedures in place to try to monitor his postings for
compliance.

alr1ght · Jan 20, 2014

McDougles said:
They removed that years ago.

View the source. I'm sure there's browser extensions that do it as well.

zeldablue · Jan 20, 2014

The funny thing is...

If Nintendo had done this I would've been okay with it and even happy to see them acknowledge their fanbase on Youtube. Hahaha...

*sigh*

krioto · Jan 20, 2014

Speedy Blue Dude said:
bending over backwards for ms.

is there anything ms does that you won't defend? I mean you even believed and defended penello's pr on here?

afternoon delight · Jan 20, 2014

That is very illegal, but I'll be interested to see if it can be prosecuted.

Overdoziz · Jan 20, 2014

Speedy Blue Dude said:
I don't see the problem with this. All Microsoft is doing is paying and supporting the content creators supporting them. If other content creators who aren't fond of the Xbox Brand, decide to jump aboard and sell out on their personal beliefs for money, that's their fault and Microsoft's gain.

Just like any business contract, which this is, by the way, you aren't legally allowed to discuss the terms, conditions, or what you receive from it, so whatever.

The "you can't be negative about the Xbox One and it must be relevant" part also makes sense, why would the support you trashing their product? Besides, it's necessary. You already saw some posts on GAF discuss loopholes and ways to get money from Microsoft without doing anything. "Put it at the end of a totally unrelated video! Make a video discussing this bullshit and make money since it's about the Xbox One! Tall badly about the Xbox One and tag the video so you get paid!"

Can't blame Microsoft.

As a content creator and YouTuber myself, my channel is already practically a Xbox only channel (thanks Sony for making it so hard and BS to capture PS3 footage! And thanks even more for not allowing PS4 footage at all!), so I'm just getting paid for doing what I already do, I don't see the negative. Microsoft is just supporting those supporting them.

I know you're being sarcastic, and the hidden tag is hilarious, but seriously I sort of agree.

I do not blame the mods for thinking your were a shill.

NullPointer · Jan 20, 2014

Well at least they're paying us to deal with it now.

joeblow · Jan 20, 2014

atomsk said:
edit: I know I give Polygon a lot of shit, but they did report on this, sourcing the Ars article.

Makes sense that Polygon would report the story. Why would they want any of the grin-and-hush money from MS going to anyone else but them?

UberTag · Jan 20, 2014

AkuMifune said:
This is just business as usual carried over from last gen. Didn't we already know they were paying Machinima under the table for mentions? Andrea Renee on Weekend Confirmed?

I just tune anything Andrea says out. She's like the exact opposite of the kind of advertising/shilling Microsoft should be paying for.

In fact, they should be paying the other guys on that show to say kind things about Microsoft while also paying Andrea to be immature and annoying while saying great things about Sony and Nintendo.

anexanhume · Jan 20, 2014

Quadraphonic said:
Sorry. I linked to the wrong article.

Here: http://www.ftc.gov/policy/federal-r...-endorsements-and-testimonials-advertising-16

It's a 27 page PDF answering all these questions. It's long and boring.

Thanks. Maybe someone else can pick out the choice bits.

What Ars says:

The arrangement as described might go against the FTC's guidelines for the use of endorsements in advertising, which demand full disclosure when there is "a connection between the endorser and the seller of the advertised product that might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement." The document offers a specific example of a video game blogger who gets a free game system that he later talks about on his blog. That blogger would need to disclose that gift, the FTC says, because his opinion is "disseminated via a form of consumer-generated media in which his relationship to the advertiser is not inherently obvious." That same reasoning would seem to apply to the opinions expressed by the video makers participating in this promotion. Neither Microsoft nor Machinima responded immediately to a request for comment on the matter, but we'll let you know if and when we hear from them.

Revven · Jan 20, 2014

I.... am quite frankly baffled.

Unbelievable. Just wow!

fantomena · Jan 20, 2014

This reminds me of cheating classmates.

Classmates are sitting back in the classroom cheating themself to A+ on tests while they give other classmates money to shut up about their cheating. Win-win for everyone!

FunnyBunny · Jan 20, 2014

This is borderline illegal in the broadcast industry. People are required to disclose they're being paid to talk-up a product or service.

ShapeGSX · Jan 20, 2014

KMS said:
Ones an advertisement the other is subversive propaganda aimed at brainwashing you into liking something you otherwise wouldn't.

You just described an advertisement.

ReturnOfTheRAT · Jan 20, 2014

Disgusting, but not surprising that a company would stoop to this level.

GrizzNKev · Jan 20, 2014

Speedy Blue Dude said:
I don't see the problem with this. All Microsoft is doing is paying and supporting the content creators supporting them. If other content creators who aren't fond of the Xbox Brand, decide to jump aboard and sell out on their personal beliefs for money, that's their fault and Microsoft's gain.

Just like any business contract, which this is, by the way, you aren't legally allowed to discuss the terms, conditions, or what you receive from it, so whatever.

The "you can't be negative about the Xbox One and it must be relevant" part also makes sense, why would the support you trashing their product? Besides, it's necessary. You already saw some posts on GAF discuss loopholes and ways to get money from Microsoft without doing anything. "Put it at the end of a totally unrelated video! Make a video discussing this bullshit and make money since it's about the Xbox One! Tall badly about the Xbox One and tag the video so you get paid!"

Can't blame Microsoft.

As a content creator and YouTuber myself, my channel is already practically a Xbox only channel (thanks Sony for making it so hard and BS to capture PS3 footage! And thanks even more for not allowing PS4 footage at all!), so I'm just getting paid for doing what I already do, I don't see the negative. Microsoft is just supporting those supporting them.

I know you're being sarcastic, and the hidden tag is hilarious, but seriously I sort of agree.

Ask again why people have called you naive.

McDougles · Jan 20, 2014

alr1ght said:
View the source. I'm sure there's browser extensions that do it as well.

The keywords element gets cut off if there are too many. Trust me, I looked and found one video from a Machinima user with ~400k subscribers. That's it.

10k · Jan 20, 2014

Now I can't stop refreshing my phone.

Oh Microsoft, you should switch from a devices company to a pure entertainment company since you provide so much of it unintentionally.

The Ps4 Looks Great · Jan 20, 2014

I like mafia tactics, Microsoft will buy good press

evangd007 · Jan 20, 2014

I should be surprised, but I'm not.

ironcreed · Jan 20, 2014

Welp, I sense one of dem big threads coming on, lol.

Confidence Man · Jan 20, 2014

Why can't everyone just stop hating and be happy Xbox One is doing well.

Speedy Blue Dude · Jan 20, 2014

Chobel said:
The problem isn't the positive part, it's non disclosure part. Everyone who applied to this is obligated by law to disclose that he's promoting Xbone and he's getting paid for it. This assignment says don't disclose that, it's illegal.

Oh. Didn't know that was illegal lol. Holy crap huge oversight by Microsoft if it is illegal then. Close down this entire promotion and punish Microsoft if this is against the law. Although I'm sure Microsoft thought it out... Right? They wouldn't be this ignorant?

Mind linking the legal terms they're breaking? I'm interested in reading this.

krioto said:
is there anything ms does that you won't defend? I mean you even believed and defended penello's pr on here?

I actually crtizied Microsoft many times on GAF, and I've even done it in this thread...

Anyways... Done responding to posts arguing against me as a person instead of my opinions on the matter. ;P

Finalizer · Jan 20, 2014

pixlexic said:
no i am not really into the console wars thing.

hahaohwow.jpg

Tsundere · Jan 20, 2014

BocoDragon said:
So you like it because you are getting paid for it.

Isn't it nice that we know you're getting paid so we can put your viewpoint in the proper context?

Mhmmmm

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