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QuicheFontaine
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(04-21-2017, 02:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by TimmmV

No, I wouldn't think so. A person can still be rich and choose not to make investments (or make bad ones)

Me and my partner are have a combined income of just under £60k and own a flat in Manchester, I would say we are comfortable rather than rich.

I have a mate in London who got an early job in a successful tech startup and is now able to afford to rent a Thames-side 2 bedroom flat somewhere near Chelsea. I'd still say hes rich, despite him having no chance of affording to buy the property he lives in

I get that its relative, but what you guys are talking about is more down to the mental nature of London property, not that you don't have an income high enough to be considered rich.

I get what you're saying, but if I close my eyes and try to visualise a rich person I just can't imagine them renting. If a rich person is renting, what does that make the person they're renting off? Super mega rich?

The reason I say two properties is because home ownership is normal in the UK - most people own homes. I think the rate is around 60-odd percent. So owning just one property can't make you rich.
Zafir
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(04-21-2017, 02:34 PM)
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Yeah, it put SNP at the top for me too, despite not being Scottish. xD

Lib Dems were a very close second though. Which I'm not surprised about really. The sad problem is they're just never going to have any power under the current system.
danowat
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(04-21-2017, 02:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by QuicheFontaine

I get what you're saying, but if I close my eyes and try to visualise a rich person I just can't imagine them renting. If a rich person is renting, what does that make the person they're renting off? Super mega rich?

There are a lot of reasons why someone who is deemed to be rich would be renting, not owning a house isn't a good metric to define richness.

I rent despite being able to afford a mortgage, but there are a number of factors that make buying a house, at least at my stage in life, not a clear cut decision.
Jazzy Geoff
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(04-21-2017, 02:39 PM)
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If you're really rich you may want to rent because you don't give a fuck about capital growth and don't want to tie yourself down
Royal_Phalanx
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(04-21-2017, 02:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by QuicheFontaine

I get what you're saying, but if I close my eyes and try to visualise a rich person I just can't imagine them renting. If a rich person is renting, what does that make the person they're renting off? Super mega rich?

The reason I say two properties is because home ownership is normal in the UK - most people own homes. I think the rate is around 60-odd percent. So owning just one property can't make you rich.

Not for long :P Sad times for us millennials

Every government says they will solve this issue yet they're so incompetent that they fail every time. Get it together, western world.
Dougald
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(04-21-2017, 02:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Royal_Phalanx

Not for long :P Sad times for us millennials

Every government says they will solve this issue yet they're so incompetent that they fail every time. Get it together, western world.

Yeah but if we reduce house prices, then I'll have made slightly less on my own house

Sarcasm obviously, but this is the problem. Voters have come to expect that their property will increase in value forever
Agent Gibbs
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(04-21-2017, 02:52 PM)
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This is exactly why I hate those policy comparison sites, they do not take into account deal breaker policies, I'd have minus points against parties for privatisation, the Conservatives stance on the NHS instantly makes them wrong for me


60%Conservative
60%Liberal Democrat
59%Labour
57%SNP
53%UKIP
48%Green
41%Plaid Cymru
37%Democratic Unionist
37%Sinn Féin
32%British National

Still all very middle of the road, I think my views on harsh prison sentences pushed conservative so high for me, its the most right wing views, next to my complex view of nuclear weapons (we keep them until a unilateral disarmament can be agreed amongst the biggest states)

I don't know who i'll be voting for this election, it would be Labour but I cannot stand Corbyn or the direction that Labour is taking under him, that said it feels a wasted vote to vote Lib Dem. No chance I'd vote conservative, May is just awful in her Brexit negotiations (I voted remain so I'd rather not have them at all) she seems to be rushing at any cost.

Still have to hand it to May for her tactics, Labour are unlikely to win and Corbyn will be decimated destroying labour, The SNP are also waning in popularity, its like watching a trilogy of films and were at the point where the bad guys is ruthlessly winning, the key differences being this is real life and there doesn't appear to be a clear good guy in this fight


EDIT as a side not whilst reading the OP, I noticed the Conservative logo that's meant to be a tree, kind of looks like a snake taking a piss, fitting
PowderedToast
Junior Member
(04-21-2017, 02:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by QuicheFontaine

Aye, my brother earns way over 100k and is struggling to buy a decent property in London. I've certainly never thought of him as particularly 'rich'!

i've lived on 10k p/y for the last 3 years. what would you describe me as then?
QuicheFontaine
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(04-21-2017, 02:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jazzy Geoff

If you're really rich you may want to rent because you don't give a fuck about capital growth and don't want to tie yourself down

Rich people tend to give many fucks about capital growth!

Originally Posted by PowderedToast

i've lived on 10k p/y for the last 3 years. what would you describe me as then?

Is this a trick question? How many houses do you own?
HandsomeCharles
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(04-21-2017, 02:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by twofoldd

If only it was that simple.

I thought that prior to moving to London, but the more time I spend here the less I want to go back to Leeds.

Biggest factors, for me, are how multicultural London is and how rarely I experience racism here compared to Leeds (I'm of South Asian descent and regularly received racist abuse in Leeds). The crappy career prospects don't help either.

Ah, sorry to hear that. Admittedly racial/social issues like that are something I'd be unlikely to be on the receiving end of. It's something I hadn't even really thought about.

Plus, I'm not really a "big city" kind of guy, so from my perspective I'd always be looking to get back up north of the border anyway. I doubt I could ever get attached to a city like London.
Jazzy Geoff
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(04-21-2017, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by QuicheFontaine

Rich people tend to give many fucks about capital growth!

Depends. Some do, particularly if they are 'old money'. A self-made billionaire may not give a single flying fuck if he's got more money than he or his family could ever spend.
danowat
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(04-21-2017, 02:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by PowderedToast

i've lived on 10k p/y for the last 3 years. what would you describe me as then?

Depends why you're living on 10k p/a I guess.

I am not sure "poor" really relates to poor these days, today, poor means not being able to have Sky, or a new mobile etc, when I was young, being poor meant the electricity meter running out on Wednesday and not having the money to put any money in the meter till the following Monday.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
(04-21-2017, 02:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by QuicheFontaine

Rich people tend to give many fucks about capital growth!



Is this a trick question? How many houses do you own?

no, i'm just a renting student living outside of london.

i understand that you can't live on 10k in london and that context is important, but taking all that into account there's still a huge disparity between 10-100k - and if the latter isn't rich i don't know what is.

i'm not so much having a go, but recognising that it's basically all about perception of your own 'comfort' in life

Originally Posted by danowat

Depends why you're living on 10k p/a I guess.

I am not sure "poor" really relates to poor these days, today, poor means not being able to have Sky, or a new mobile etc, when I was young, being poor meant the electricity meter running out on Wednesday and not having the money to put any money in the meter till the following Monday.

bills can be scary for me, but not gonna lie and say it's like it was for my parents who at times lived month to month. i think the standard of living is generally higher than it was, but level of stability is much lower and affects swaths of people across income levels. even people who earn considerably more than me aren't able to consider a mortgage, which is likely contributing to why they don't feel 'rich'
Agent Gibbs
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(04-21-2017, 03:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by twofoldd

If only it was that simple.

I thought that prior to moving to London, but the more time I spend here the less I want to go back to Leeds.

Biggest factors, for me, are how multicultural London is and how rarely I experience racism here compared to Leeds (I'm of South Asian descent and regularly received racist abuse in Leeds). The crappy career prospects don't help either.

Leeds is a very odd kettle of fish, a lot of areas are perfectly fine but you get pockets of areas which are filled with incredibly racist people, which are mainly the less affluent areas (Seacroft, Gipton, Harehills, Halton Moor to name a few) those areas have become incredibly isolated even within themselves with pockets of people who do not like people from other ethnicities. Harehills in particular is becoming an issue with pockets of communities rallying against one another and anyone from outside the area.

But generally though Leeds is better than it was 5,10 years ago - but I cannot discount London will be generally better on all fronts
Jazzy Geoff
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(04-21-2017, 03:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by PowderedToast

no, i'm just a renting student living outside of london.

i understand that you can't live on 10k in london and that context is important, but taking all that into account there's still a huge disparity between 10-100k - and if the latter isn't rich i don't know what is.

i'm not so much having a go, but recognising that it's basically all about perception of your own 'comfort' in life

100k seems like a lot but if you do live in London, have kids, a mortgage, car payments, childcare to pay for it wouldn't go that far. Certainly not poor though.

I think one of the problems this discussion highlights is that there is such a disparity between living costs and wages in London and everywhere else that it is impossible to set a tax bar that is fair. Either it's too high for the shires or it's too low for the smoke.
Ghost
Chili Con Carnage!
(04-21-2017, 03:08 PM)
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If your argument is 'I make £70k but I'm not rich because I spend every penny of it and I've got nothing to show for it' then I don't know what to tell you except that you're bad with money.
tomtom94
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(04-21-2017, 03:08 PM)
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Hammond has "hinted" that the Tory manifesto will drop the pledge not to raise income tax, National Insurance, or VAT.

My guess is there will be a pledge not to raise income tax but he won't make any promises about National Insurance or VAT.
Jazzy Geoff
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(04-21-2017, 03:11 PM)
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Why the fuck would he hint at that?

Did he have a twinkle in his eye when he implied he might fuck over the self-employed after all? Doesn't seem like the sort of policy a Tory minister tries to draw attention to.
Huw_Dawson
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(04-21-2017, 03:12 PM)
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See, when you know you're going to form the next government, you can throw whatever you like in your manifesto.
travisbickle
(04-21-2017, 03:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by danowat

Depends why you're living on 10k p/a I guess.

I am not sure "poor" really relates to poor these days, today, poor means not being able to have Sky, or a new mobile etc, when I was young, being poor meant the electricity meter running out on Wednesday and not having the money to put any money in the meter till the following Monday.


So what word describes the people who aren't able to put money in the electricity meter for half a week? People who return food that needs to be heated back to food banks?
OmegaTreeFish
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(04-21-2017, 03:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by FortuneFaded


Given that I'm in England, I guess it'll have to be the Lib-dems.

Mine is similar to this. Have been thinking Lib Dems support my ideals for a few years no so I will more than likely vote for them.

edit* my list

71% Plaid Cymru
68% SNP
65% Lib Dem
64% Labour
63% Sinn Fein
62% Green
48% Demo Union
48% Conservatives
42% UKIP
36% BN

I cant support Labour in its current state and Lib Dems have appealed to me for a while.
Last edited by OmegaTreeFish; 04-21-2017 at 03:25 PM.
Mr. Sam
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(04-21-2017, 03:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by tomtom94

Hammond has "hinted" that the Tory manifesto will drop the pledge not to raise income tax, National Insurance, or VAT.

My guess is there will be a pledge not to raise income tax but he won't make any promises about National Insurance or VAT.

This is part of the motivation behind the snap election - i.e. the manifesto they were elected on was basically unfeasible and designed to have chunks of it negotiated away in a coalition agreement. Basically, "Fuck, we weren't supposed to win!"
Cabaratier
Junior Member
(04-21-2017, 03:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by danowat

Depends why you're living on 10k p/a I guess.

I am not sure "poor" really relates to poor these days, today, poor means not being able to have Sky, or a new mobile etc, when I was young, being poor meant the electricity meter running out on Wednesday and not having the money to put any money in the meter till the following Monday.

What the fuck? How do you actually believe this?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-spending-cuts

"A young mother, with a baby, is on the line. She earns just over £17,000 a year but is worried about the latest round of government welfare and tax changes. The reforms will cut £530 a year off her annual income. She finds it hard enough already, and is not sure how she’ll cope. She thought Theresa May’s government was going to help her, not make life more difficult.

Another young mother rings in. She has four children under the age of 13 and receives income support, but the effect of the government’s cap on benefits has been to reduce her housing benefit by £100 a week. She lives in private rented accommodation outside London and is struggling financially. These are the kind of cases Gingerbread deals with every day.

Another single parent calls and explains that she is looking after three children including twins, who are under a year old. They are in living in temporary accommodation in a single room because they could not afford to stay in their previous home after the benefit cap came into force last November. This young mother cannot go out to work because the twins are still so young and she doesn’t know where to turn.

Many families like these are also increasingly trapped in debt, having to rely on credit cards they struggle to pay off, as the Financial Conduct Authority reported last week."

https://www.ft.com/content/24e88c30-...5-b8b81dd5d080

"During the second half of the 20th century, household incomes grew steadily, with each generation enjoying a better standard of living than the one before. Average net household incomes grew by an average of 2.4 per cent a year between 1961 and 2000. Between the turn of the century and the start of the financial crisis, growth was somewhat slower, at 1.9 per cent a year on average.

But since 2008, household incomes have grown on average by just 0.1 per cent a year. Mark Carney, governor of the Bank of England, recently described it as a “lost decade” — the first time since the 1860s, when Karl Marx was writing, that real wages have fallen over a 10-year period."
D4Danger
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(04-21-2017, 03:36 PM)
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baconsandwich.jpg
Mr. Sam
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(04-21-2017, 03:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by D4Danger

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/mk2zs3a.png[IMG]

baconsandwich.jpg

No way is Corbyn making a funny face to some kids comparable to that monstrosity.
Huw_Dawson
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(04-21-2017, 03:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by D4Danger



baconsandwich.jpg

"And this was my face when we lost the vote on Clause IV..."
Stop It
Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
(04-21-2017, 03:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by danowat

Depends why you're living on 10k p/a I guess.

I am not sure "poor" really relates to poor these days, today, poor means not being able to have Sky, or a new mobile etc, when I was young, being poor meant the electricity meter running out on Wednesday and not having the money to put any money in the meter till the following Monday.

Guess what, that still fucking happens.

The number of food banks in this country has skyrocketed in the last decade. People are having to decide whether to "heat or eat".

Stop reading the Daily Mail and voting presumably Tory because "poverty can't possibly still exist because I know people on benefits have Sky TV, am iPad for every room and 2 cars." The reality is while the economy has recovered for some, those worst off have been hit, hard. I'm lucky to not be in the situation I was as a child and have memories of the Electric running out but I'm not stupid enough to think there's many people who still go through this.
Last edited by Stop It; 04-21-2017 at 03:46 PM.
Ghost
Chili Con Carnage!
(04-21-2017, 03:44 PM)
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I think Corbyn wins the child photography portion of the election

Jazzy Geoff
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(04-21-2017, 03:47 PM)
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nothing much wrong with that, assuming that book is appropriate.

Bacon Sandwich was a nonsense but at the same time it perfectly summed up Ed Miliband's image problem. The posho trying to show he's not so different to the workers but he's apparently so posh he can't even work out how to eat a fucking sandwich and therefore a fraud. Possible nasty undercurrent of antisemitism.

Theresa May has an unfortunate countenance.
nubbe
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(04-21-2017, 03:49 PM)
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I guess the empire ever really embraced child education.
children should be in factories from the age of five.
D4Danger
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(04-21-2017, 03:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sam

No way is Corbyn making a funny face to some kids comparable to that monstrosity.

nah I know. There's a bunch of pictures floating around and everyone seems to be having a laugh with it.

in other news Len McCluskey got re-elected.
jimbobsmells
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(04-21-2017, 03:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ghost

If your argument is 'I make £70k but I'm not rich because I spend every penny of it and I've got nothing to show for it' then I don't know what to tell you except that you're bad with money.

You have no idea what you're talking about.
Stop It
Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
(04-21-2017, 03:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jazzy Geoff

nothing much wrong with that, assuming that book is appropriate.

Bacon Sandwich was a nonsense but at the same time it perfectly summed up Ed Miliband's image problem. The posho trying to show he's not so different to the workers but he's apparently so posh he can't even work out how to eat a fucking sandwich and therefore a fraud. Possible nasty undercurrent of antisemitism.

Theresa May has an unfortunate countenance.

May has an aversion to any other human life, she's repulsed by them like a Dr Who enemy in a Human suit.

The bacon sandwich thing was perplexing. Aside from Vegans and Vegetarians, the general way to approach a bacon sandwich is full frontal assault. It may have looked hilarious, but all Ed had to do was say "Bacon sandwich nom!" And attack. His failure was that of the political equivalent of focus testing everything in your head before doing it.
PJV3
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(04-21-2017, 03:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jazzy Geoff

nothing much wrong with that, assuming that book is appropriate.

Bacon Sandwich was a nonsense but at the same time it perfectly summed up Ed Miliband's image problem. The posho trying to show he's not so different to the workers but he's apparently so posh he can't even work out how to eat a fucking sandwich and therefore a fraud. Possible nasty undercurrent of antisemitism.

Theresa May has an unfortunate countenance.

I didn't realise there was a class element to the bacon buttie, I thought that was Cameron's imaginary pastie.
D4Danger
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(04-21-2017, 03:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by PJV3

I didn't realise there was a class element to the bacon buttie, I thought that was Cameron's imaginary pastie.

I'll be honest I didn't realise that either. I just thought it was because he looked silly.
PJV3
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(04-21-2017, 03:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by D4Danger

I'll be honest I didn't realise that either. I just thought it was because he looked silly.

Milliband having 2 sinks was when he lost the working class.
Jazzy Geoff
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(04-21-2017, 03:57 PM)
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LOL possibly just me then

Don't allow yourself to be photographed eating is the lesson here.
Jazzy Geoff
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(04-21-2017, 04:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by PJV3

Milliband having 2 sinks was when he lost the working class.

Or that awful interview or whatever it was with Russell Brand which was cringe city. Or possibly that was just me as well.

edit Arrrgh double post again! Sorry. time to stop posting
jelly
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(04-21-2017, 04:02 PM)
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Ed's problem much like Gordon Brown was not being themselves and it was disastrous. I don't know if it's an inside job or what but how could nobody in charge, even the leaders themselves not know they are shooting themselves in the foot. At least May sticks to her ducking, hiding and fuck everyone attitude rather than trying her hand at focused tested nonsense.
nekkid
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(04-21-2017, 04:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ghost

Don't you dare taint Lego, you bitch!
TimmmV
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(04-21-2017, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by QuicheFontaine

I get what you're saying, but if I close my eyes and try to visualise a rich person I just can't imagine them renting. If a rich person is renting, what does that make the person they're renting off? Super mega rich?

The reason I say two properties is because home ownership is normal in the UK - most people own homes. I think the rate is around 60-odd percent. So owning just one property can't make you rich.

There are definitely gradients of wealth yeah. To use a boring anecdote as an example: last time I was in London, I would laugh at how mental the rental prices were in estate agent windows. IIRC there was one that was a house in some posh area that ended up being a monthly rent of something ridiculous like £12k! in that case its definitely a rich person renting and a very rich person renting it out

For your second point, I don't think thats a scenario that applies to people aged <40 anymore. 20 years ago, I might have agreed with you

Originally Posted by Jazzy Geoff

LOL possibly just me then

Don't allow yourself to be photographed eating is the lesson here.

Yeah, no one looks good eating really.

Either you try and eat like a normal person, and a photographer manages to catch you gurning like a fool as you're chewing, or you go for damage control and end up eating a fucking hot dog with a knife and fork.

It meant Cameron looked posh (which everyone already knew he was anyway), but at least he didn't look awkward and weird
Last edited by TimmmV; 04-21-2017 at 04:17 PM.
Jackpot
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(04-21-2017, 04:18 PM)
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It's impossible to avoid bad photos. High-speed cameras capture so many pics. If someone filmed you the whole day imagine how many frames would show awkward poses and expressions. Just filming one meal will capture lots of bulging faces.
Pandy
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(04-21-2017, 04:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by D4Danger

I'll be honest I didn't realise that either. I just thought it was because he looked silly.

.

Also, that Corbyn pic is really sweet. Grumpy Grandpa has come to read us a story, and then gets totally into it himself.
Last edited by Pandy; 04-21-2017 at 04:24 PM.
Mr. Sam
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(04-21-2017, 04:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by TimmmV

Yeah, no one looks good eating really.

Either you try and eat like a normal person, and a photographer manages to catch you gurning like a fool as you're chewing, or you go for damage control and end up eating a fucking hot dog with a knife and fork.

It meant Cameron looked posh (which everyone already knew he was anyway), but at least he didn't look awkward and weird

My girlfriend keeps trying to convince me that Sadiq Khan's campaign was so successful because he avoided eating or drinking anything in front of cameras. Zac Goldsmith, meanwhile, was caught drinking a pint with two hands.
Jazzy Geoff
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(04-21-2017, 04:25 PM)
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This forum needs smileys but LOL anyway
jelly
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(04-21-2017, 04:27 PM)
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This isn't Prosecco.
Pandy
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(04-21-2017, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jazzy Geoff



This forum needs smileys but LOL anyway

Haven't seen that picture before. Hilarious.
D4Danger
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(04-21-2017, 04:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sam

Zac Goldsmith, meanwhile, was caught drinking a pint with two hands.

haha fantastic.
QuicheFontaine
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(04-21-2017, 04:32 PM)
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It shouldn't matter that he's drinking a pint with two hands.

It shouldn't.

It really shouldn't.

But it just... does somehow. I couldn't vote for that.
Jazzy Geoff
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(04-21-2017, 04:36 PM)
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The man's never held a pint in his life quite obviously and he's not even clever enough to fake it. Boris has no such problem, he's seen off a third of it in one gulp and no doubt smashed the rest and called for more. Goldsmith looks like he's drinking cold soup. Get it down you ffs.

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