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View Poll Results: GAF Decides
Macron
519 35.52%
Le Pen
29 1.98%
Pain au chocolat
194 13.28%
Chocolatine
67 4.59%
Thor Deux: Un Monde Obscur
652 44.63%
Voters: 1461. You may not vote on this poll


Alx
Member
(01-29-2017, 10:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Festwill

look at that sexy mthrfucker I mean damn RRrrR

I must admit I was surprised at how photogenic Hamon was. He must be the candidate with best visual charisma (not that it matters much in the end...).
Good for him to take some wind out of Mélenchon's sails too. In the end it's not too bad to have a "real" left for those who are so inclined, and not only an extremist one. In the long term that may be the best for the survival of PS, even if they're not likely to win the elections.
chadskin
Member
(01-29-2017, 10:07 PM)
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Macron-mentum!
sbkodama
Member
(01-29-2017, 10:08 PM)
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What's sur is that if there is no left at the second round (macron isn't left to me), you won't see me voting, I plan to vote for the ones I want, voting for a supposed least bad is completely out of my equation after the last.
Holden
Member
(01-29-2017, 10:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by sbkodama

What's sur is that if there is no left at the second round (macron isn't left to me), you won't see me voting, I plan to vote for the ones I want, voting for a supposed least bad is completely out of my equation after the last.

Ya letting another Putin's puppet in our world is a good thing

Grow up and vote
DiipuSurotu
(01-29-2017, 10:10 PM)
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Apparently Hamon accidentally started his speech before Valls finished his, and when he found out he came back onstage to apologize to Valls. Good Guy Hamon
Ac30
Member
(01-29-2017, 10:11 PM)

Originally Posted by sbkodama

What's sur is that if there is no left at the second round (macron isn't left to me), you won't see me voting, I plan to vote for the ones I want, voting for a supposed least bad is completely out of my equation after the last.

Glad to see you're learning nothing from America.
Alx
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(01-29-2017, 10:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sinsem

Someone needs to explain to me the love for Macron. I don't get the popularity.
I'm a bit far left, but I just don't understand how a guy that was in the socialist governement can gather so much support since they pretty much fuck all of us these past 5 years.

And how in hell can someone trust an investment banker to run a country?

A lot of it is based on pure charisma, and funnily enough anti-establishment communication. Unlike other candidates, Macron is young, is not a pure politician, and has cut his ties with his former party. Following him is a way of rejecting the old bipartisan system. I think many members of his team weren't politically involved before either. He's the candidate of people who dislike politics.
The phenomenon is not too different from Brexit or Trump elections, people are fed up with old institutions. French voters also voted against Sarko and Juppé (hence Fillon), against Valls and Montebourg (hence Hamon), or against PS/LR in general (hence Macron).

Originally Posted by sbkodama

What's sur is that if there is no left at the second round (macron isn't left to me), you won't see me voting, I plan to vote for the ones I want, voting for a supposed least bad is completely out of my equation after the last.


Voting for neither is the same as voting for both.
Last edited by Alx; 01-29-2017 at 10:16 PM.
samoscratch
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(01-29-2017, 10:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by sbkodama

What's sur is that if there is no left at the second round (macron isn't left to me), you won't see me voting, I plan to vote for the ones I want, voting for a supposed least bad is completely out of my equation after the last.

Jesus Christ...have you learned nothing?!
azyless
Member
(01-29-2017, 10:17 PM)
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nvm
Last edited by azyless; 01-29-2017 at 10:44 PM.
Simplet
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(01-29-2017, 10:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sinsem

Someone needs to explain to me the love for Macron. I don't get the popularity.
I'm a bit far left, but I just don't understand how a guy that was in the socialist governement can gather so much support since they pretty much fuck all of us these past 5 years.

And how in hell can someone trust an investment banker to run a country?

I can only speak for myself but I like him mostly because he is enthusiastically pro-UE, and had the balls to promote liberal reforms in a socialist government. He seems to be both free of leftist fantasies (the idea that you can simply make up laws to force everyone to work less and make more money), and from right-wing obsessions (about family values, national identity and the like). Basically he looks like a technocrat rather than an ideologue and even though I hate his "neither right nor left" positioning (when he's clearly a centrist), I think he has some pretty courageous positions on the things he does have a position on (UE, immigration, economic competitiveness, social protection).

Of course he's also popular because he hasn't given a lot of details on the specific policies he wants to implement, so it's always possible that he will unveil some truly terrible ideas in February and cause everyone to hate him. He doesn't seem the type to conjure up crowd-pleasing populist brain-dead propositions out of thin air, but we'll see I guess. With the way the world is going I'll take pragmatism and respect for democratic institutions before anything else.
Pacbois
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(01-29-2017, 10:28 PM)
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glad that hamon won tonight, he's in for a tough fight but it's great that there's a proper left-wing candidate from a major party.

also Melenchon isn't so clean, he recently got a lot of support from a major online gaming forum that is known for being super misogynistic and harrassing women/queer folks online, and he never answered any question on the subject.
Dy_Cy
Junior Member
(01-29-2017, 10:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pacbois

also Melenchon isn't so clean, he recently got a lot of support from a major online gaming forum that is known for being super misogynistic and harrassing women/queer folks online, and he never answered any question on the subject.

The people on this forum (jeuxvideo.com) that support Mélenchon are not the same people that you describe. Those ones are usually more on the far-right side.
Lihwem
Junior Member
(01-29-2017, 10:35 PM)
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Aw yiss.
DiipuSurotu
(01-29-2017, 10:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lihwem



Aw yiss.

sbkodama
Member
(01-29-2017, 10:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Holden

Ya letting another Putin's puppet in our world is a good thing

Grow up and vote

Russian puppet, american puppet, capitalist puppet, communist puppet, choose your conspiration.
Sorry if the side of my vote can't flip anymore, voting for the least bad gave great result last time for sur. /s

I didn't need to learn anything from usa this time because the trump election didn't surprised me one bit and what he do now don't either.
Simplet
Member
(01-29-2017, 10:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by sbkodama

Russian puppet, american puppet, capitalist puppet, communist puppet, choose your conspiration.
Sorry if the side of my vote can't flip anymore, voting for the least bad gave great result last time for sur. /s

I didn't need to learn anything from usa this time because the trump election didn't surprised me one bit and what he do now don't either.

Well it gave you the result of not having to live under Sarkozy for 5 more years. Are you regretting it?

Not sure how much a Le Pen victory will surprise you, but how much do you think you will like it, you and all the non-white people/gays/eastern europeans getting invaded/(insert whichever group is going to get fucked)?
Last edited by Simplet; 01-29-2017 at 10:45 PM.
Alx
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(01-29-2017, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by DiipuSurotu

That's hilarious ! :D

Originally Posted by sbkodama

voting for the least bad gave great result last time for sur. /s

And if that was the least bad, it would mean that the other would have given even worse results.
Not voting (or voting blank) is fine if you're ok with either candidate. But if you identified one as worse than the other, then it's your responsibility to support the lesser of two evils. That's part of being an adult, taking decisions even when they're not what you would have wished. The alternative is called "sticking one's head in the sand".
Last edited by Alx; 01-29-2017 at 10:46 PM.
daffy
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(01-29-2017, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by sbkodama

What's sur is that if there is no left at the second round (macron isn't left to me), you won't see me voting, I plan to vote for the ones I want, voting for a supposed least bad is completely out of my equation after the last.

President Fillon it is
Lihwem
Junior Member
(01-29-2017, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by DiipuSurotu

xD Hahaha good one.

Seriously tho, cool that Valls seems to be fair-play and respect Hamon's nomination. The left-wing is already shattered enough between Hamon, Mélenchon & Jadot...
Coffinhal
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(01-29-2017, 10:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by G.O.O.

I think it's also because Corbyn has been terrible during and after the brexit campaign.

It's a poor comparison imo, Hamon has yet to prove anything about his leadership abilities.

Now, polls :



Notice that Mélenchon has slipped from 4th to 5th position. And that Macron is now tied with Fillon... as I said in the other thread, the question is whether or not Macron can make it to round 2. If he can't, Fillon is likely the winner.

Take this poll carefully : Hamon has been at the top of the new for 3 weeks now, it's normal to see that kind of bump. We saw the same after Fillon won the right-wing.

Also 30 to 40% of the people who answered this poll didn't say who they'll vote for (if they'll vote). Lots of people are undecided.

The comparison with Corbyn is clever. It's the same counter-move to take back the center-left parties to a "real" left (that hasn't be too compromised with "realism" (=neoliberalism/capitalism)) after two décades. Type "Gael Brustier" on Slate.fr, he wrote some wonterful papers on that.

Originally Posted by Holden

Ya letting another Putin's puppet in our world is a good thing

Grow up and vote

Grow up and respect other's people opinions. Given how your OT is inaccurate, you should focus on updating it rather than blaming people. You look like the Clinton fanboys who blamed Sanders and blablablabla. We know your methods.
Last edited by Coffinhal; 01-29-2017 at 10:58 PM.
G.O.O.
Member
(01-29-2017, 11:08 PM)
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BaronLundi
Member
(01-29-2017, 11:13 PM)
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I didn't want neither Hamon nor Valls for different reasons so I just gave them some money.

Macron it is then.

Originally Posted by sbkodama

What's sur is that if there is no left at the second round (macron isn't left to me), you won't see me voting, I plan to vote for the ones I want, voting for a supposed least bad is completely out of my equation after the last.

And look how well this line of thinking turned out in the US!

I won't be hell bent on changing your mind but please just consider these two things:

1. Voting is about making a choice amongst the possibilities you are given. Not the ones that you are not. I've been voting for more 20 years now and I've never ever seen a perfect candidate be it for presidential, general or local elections. It's always been about choosing the one that is the closest to your principles and preferred policies. And never all of them.

2. If you don't vote, you vote for the winner. The Trump experience should give you an incentive to avoid AT ALL COST a LePen presidency, especially if you're on the left side. Hoping for a new and better world to arise from the ashes left by the extreme right is suicidal.
Last edited by BaronLundi; 01-29-2017 at 11:16 PM.
bomma_man
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(01-29-2017, 11:17 PM)
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Why does France have a two round system instead of just one, preferential ballot? As it stands, on the left of this election anyway, you still have to vote for the candidate you think is going to win, not your favourite, unless you want two right wing arseholes in the second round.
Alx
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(01-29-2017, 11:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by bomma_man

Why does France have a two round system instead of just one, preferential ballot? As it stands, on the left of this election anyway, you still have to vote for the candidate you think is going to win, not your favourite, unless you want two right wing arseholes in the second round.

It's designed so that whatever happens, the president is elected by the majority of the voters. Having more than 50% approbation (through the vote) is symbolically and factually more empowering than just getting more voices than the competition.
A one round ballot would be even worse in the current situation, since the far right would be the most likely to be elected, and people could vote even less for the candidate they prefer (but it would be harder for them to identify who to vote for to counter it).
Last edited by Alx; 01-29-2017 at 11:25 PM.
Palette Swap
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(01-29-2017, 11:24 PM)
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We almost went to vote for Hamon this morning but figured we had already thrown away money at LR last year and went to see La La Land instead.

This is a positive outcome. I don't see myself voting socialist, but Hamon was by far the best candidate of the primary with the most substance.

Getting rid of Valls is a silver lining.
Holden
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(01-29-2017, 11:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Coffinhal



Grow up and respect other's people opinions. Given how your OT is inaccurate, you should focus on updating it rather than blaming people. You look like the Clinton fanboys who blamed Sanders and blablablabla. We know your methods.

I hate almost everything about Clinton as a candidate but ok dude.

And instead of calling me out at how the OT is inaccurate why not just point me out at what? Jesus. I saw that people wanted a global thread so i made it quickly.

Refusing to vote and not caring about the outcome is incredibly selfish. Look at what's going on in the US. If you rather vote for LePen/Trump then so be it. But refusing to vote for either because "b-b-but her emails..." then you're just selfish or ignorant.
Last edited by Holden; 01-29-2017 at 11:43 PM.
bomma_man
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(01-29-2017, 11:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alx

It's designed so that whatever happens, the president is elected by the majority of the voters. Having more than 50% approbation (through the vote) is symbolically and factually more empowering than just getting more voices than the competition.
A one round ballot would be even worse in the current situation, since the far right would be the most likely to be elected, and people could vote even less for the candidate they prefer (but it would be harder for them to identify who to vote for to counter it).

Not if it's preferential though? If I understand, the FN has a small but dedicated base which is why they'll probably win the first round in FPTP. But surely in a preferential system those on the left (and maybe a few on the right) would put them last, or close to last, outweighing that first glance advantage. It's essentially an instant run off, and would largely prevent vote splitting.

I understand the symbolic value given France's history though.
sbkodama
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(01-30-2017, 12:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Holden

Refusing to vote and not caring about the outcome is incredibly selfish. Look at what's going on in the US. If you rather vote for LePen/Trump then so be it. But refusing to vote for either because "b-b-but her emails..." then you're just selfish or ignorant.

I care about the outcome but probably not the way you think, and my stance isn't take because of some click balt.
Also that's not because you vote that you aren't selfish and/or ignorant.
G.O.O.
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(01-30-2017, 12:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by bomma_man

Not if it's preferential though? If I understand, the FN has a small but dedicated base which is why they'll probably win the first round in FPTP. But surely in a preferential system those on the left (and maybe a few on the right) would put them last, or close to last, outweighing that first glance advantage. It's essentially an instant run off, and would largely prevent vote splitting.

I understand the symbolic value given France's history though.

For context, this system was put in place by Charles de Gaulle along with what we call the fifth republic, which concentrates a lot of power in the hands of the president. That happened for several reasons, one of them being that the constitution that came after the fall of Vichy's régime led to several crisises which made the country extremely hard to govern, all of this happening while we were stuck in Algeria's independance war.

Point is, De Gaulle being sort of a sacred figure in France and everyone enjoying some political stability, we don't really question the election system that much, and even if we did we probably wouldn't change the constitution over it. Some politicians talk about moving to a sixth republic (Mélenchon does) but it's more because of the president holding too much power, rather than the voting system.
Hypron
Banned
(01-30-2017, 12:28 AM)

Originally Posted by sbkodama

I care about the outcome but probably not the way you think, and my stance isn't take because of some click balt.
Also that's not because you vote that you aren't selfish and/or ignorant.

You know you're just posting a whole lot of nothing in this thread apart from saying you don't want to vote?

Concretely, what does the bolded mean for example? If you're not even willing to explain your stance then expect people to question you.
BetterWorldz
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(01-30-2017, 12:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by sbkodama

I didn't need to learn anything from usa this time because the trump election didn't surprised me one bit and what he do now don't either.

Then you won't be surprised when you can't be bothered to go vote for the lesser of two evils you'll end up with the greater of two evils, causing the end of Europe and untold damage to your home country.

Please take your responsibility as a citizen. Go vote against the fascist. Live to fight another day for your ideas instead of risking everything.
Coffinhal
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(01-30-2017, 02:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Holden

I hate almost everything about Clinton as a candidate but ok dude.

And instead of calling me out at how the OT is inaccurate why not just point me out at what? Jesus. I saw that people wanted a global thread so i made it quickly.

Refusing to vote and not caring about the outcome is incredibly selfish. Look at what's going on in the US. If you rather vote for LePen/Trump then so be it. But refusing to vote for either because "b-b-but her emails..." then you're just selfish or ignorant.

Just read the answers to your own thread then, first page : http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...9&postcount=29

Nobody here said they'd rather vote for Le Pen or Trump, or talked about emails, you made that up. Not voting doesn't mean you are voting for "LePen/Trump", it just means that you don't vote because, guess what, democracy gives you that power to chose in your own conscience if you want to support, or not, someone that shares, or not, your opinions.

Blaming people for their opinions is stupid, immature and won't support your cause in any way. Flawed rhetoric all the way.

Originally Posted by Alx

It's designed so that whatever happens, the president is elected by the majority of the voters. Having more than 50% approbation (through the vote) is symbolically and factually more empowering than just getting more voices than the competition.
A one round ballot would be even worse in the current situation, since the far right would be the most likely to be elected, and people could vote even less for the candidate they prefer (but it would be harder for them to identify who to vote for to counter it).

A one round ballot usually comes with a proportionnal representation and a parliamentary regime, and that means that the FN would need to make alliances with other parties, something they are far from being able to do. So they would be first in the results, but the likely outcome would be a coalition government and majority between parts of the left, parts of the right, or a centrists from both sides.
mo60
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(01-30-2017, 03:29 AM)
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I'm rooting for Macron to get to the second round and win the whole thing at this point. I wouldn't mind if Fillon got to the second round and won against Le Pen,but I never liked Fillon much.
Melkr_
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(01-30-2017, 03:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by azyless

Subscribing to this, thanks for creating a thread !

your gif is giving me Ciudadanos realness. I wonder if Macron will suffer the same fate. Probably.
Fistwell
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(01-30-2017, 06:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alx

From my point of view, Mélenchon is as much of a danger as Le Pen. As long as neither of those two is elected, it'll be fine. Sure I'd be concerned with Hamon's economic decisions/Valls' social ones, Fillon's conservatism or Macron's uncertainties, but it's stuff that can be dealt with.

I don't think mélanchon or hamon actually want to be elected. Macron has nothing to offer but a fresh face. Having had Hollande's ear for so long, if he had valuable insights on economy it would have its way into the current presidential mandate. Fillon lost a good deal of credibility this past week. Le pen's sitting back and

I want one of the normal (non-fascist) ones to beat the bitch. Hard to predict what'll happen but they all look like poo to me at the moment.
Magni
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(01-30-2017, 07:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Holden

I find it sad that this election is highly limited by the two round voting system flaw

the Alternative vote system would have fitted this election so well

Very sad indeed. Two-round is much better than FPTP (never mind FPTP+EC like in the US), but IRV would be best.

Originally Posted by azyless

Second part of that survey if anyone's interested :

And that survey clearly shows why. Fillon/Macron/Hamon share a common pool that's more than the third of the country that would consider voting FN.

I'm hesitating between Hamon and Macron at this point, but the system is going to force me to vote Macron unless the polling drastically changes.

The way I rank them, at this point in time:

Hamon > Macron >>> Fillon > randos from EELV and the other small parties >>> Mélenchon >>>>>> Le Pen.

I wish I could put that on a ballot.
mo60
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(01-30-2017, 07:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Festwill

I don't think mélanchon or hamon actually want to be elected. Macron has nothing to offer but a fresh face. Having had Hollande's ear for so long, if he had valuable insights on economy it would have its way into the current presidential mandate. Fillon lost a good deal of credibility this past week. Le pen's sitting back and

I want one of the normal (non-fascist) ones to beat the bitch. Hard to predict what'll happen but they all look like poo to me at the moment.

She will definitely lose since she's been stuck in the 30's in polls for the second round forever. The question is how hard her defeat will be. There's a very good chance she loses in a massive landslide.
Last edited by mo60; 01-30-2017 at 07:26 AM.
Lihwem
Junior Member
(01-30-2017, 08:41 AM)
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http://www.lemonde.fr/election-presi...7_4854003.html

Hamon will talk with Mélenchon (far-left) and Jadot (ecologist) to unite for the elections.

I can see Jadot accepting, as he's last in the polls (not even mentioned in the OP lol) and Hamon's agenda is probably the most ecology-focused program a PS candidate ever had, but I can also see Mélenchon being grumpy about that and saying no, which would guarantee them losing, as the votes would be split between them (there's a lot of similarities in their programs)
Alx
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(01-30-2017, 08:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by mo60

She will definitely lose since she's been stuck in the 30's in polls for the second round forever. The question is how hard her defeat will be. There's a very good chance she loses in a massive landslide.

Depends on how you define landslide. A 35-40% defeat would be expected, but is already far too much everything considered. I was happy with her father's 18% slap in the face, but we're talking twice that now.
My only optimistic perception of the current situation is that the FN couldn't have a better configuration right now. Brexit, Trump, Syrian crisis, nationalism all around Europe, Marine popularity etc., all stars are aligned for an optimal score (and it will, hopefully, still not be enough for her to be elected). Which means for them it will all be downhill from now. In 5 years, the results of UK&US isolationism will show, we will have found a way to deal with migrant crisis if it's still there, and there are chances that there will be infighting within the FN.
UnluckyKate
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(01-30-2017, 09:02 AM)
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this is unbelievable.
Simplet
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(01-30-2017, 12:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by UnluckyKate



this is unbelievable.

What's unbelievable about it?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
(01-30-2017, 01:10 PM)
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Wikileaks was a mistake.

Originally Posted by Melkr_

your gif is giving me Ciudadanos realness. I wonder if Macron will suffer the same fate. Probably.

Rivera wishes he could have Macron's political stature, let alone his chances to become president. I almost want another election just so I can see Ciudadanos sinking even lower. Meanwhile, Vox continues to coddle with Le Pen, Wilders and Petry in yet another attempt to achieve relevancy.

At this point I just want Hamon to pass to the second round and crush Le Pen just so France can show the rest of the EU that there are other ways to get things done. Same with Schulz. OG socialdemocracy is in dire need of a comeback.
Phantast2k
(01-30-2017, 04:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by DiipuSurotu

wikifucks

Lmao, they seemed really happy in that initial tweet.
G.O.O.
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(01-30-2017, 04:56 PM)
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Slightly OT but I just want people interested in French politics to remember that we have our own Richard Spencer, both in general profile and in how he became known out of his sphere of influence.

(the guy who punches him is also a nazi though, so there's that)

That's all, thank you
Last edited by G.O.O.; 01-30-2017 at 05:07 PM.
Pizza con salsiccia
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(01-30-2017, 05:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by G.O.O.

The irony in this picture is fantastic.
Which home would it be for poor Manuel?

Evry? Barcelona? Jerusalem?
Alx
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(01-30-2017, 05:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by G.O.O.

Slightly OT but I just want people interested in French politics to remember that we have our own Richard Spencer, both in general profile and in how he became known out of his sphere of influence.

(the guy who punches him is also a nazi though, so there's that)

That's all, thank you

First time I hear of him. He doesn't seem too popular anyway based on his Twitter followers.
I didn't know either that Dieudonné has a show where nazis punch each other. :P
Fistwell
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(01-30-2017, 06:55 PM)
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I remember when dieudonné used to be funny. :(
G.O.O.
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(01-30-2017, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alx

First time I hear of him. He doesn't seem too popular anyway based on his Twitter followers.
I didn't know either that Dieudonné has a show where nazis punch each other. :P

some twitter users have memefied him otherwise I wouldn't know him either :p
Fistwell
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(01-30-2017, 07:17 PM)
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I mean, to be fair, the guy has much better form than, say

And his sister used to be hot. Like 20 years ago.

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