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bitbydeath
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(03-11-2017, 02:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Blank!

I hated everything Spike related. That whole romance/plot line was such a turn off on the show for me and it felt like they devoted so much fucking time to it.

jb1234
Member
(03-11-2017, 02:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Blank!

I hated everything Spike related. That whole romance/plot line was such a turn off on the show for me and it felt like they devoted so much fucking time to it.

By the end, I was bored of him too. My female friends think that I've lost my mind.
ionitron
Member
(03-11-2017, 02:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheVampire

Spike was the best character.
Great character progression from villain to hero.
He always had Buffy's back

Plus him going onto Angels final season was genius.

Lovin' your avatar mate, lol.


Honestly though I do love Spike quite a bit.
Media
Member
(03-11-2017, 02:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by jb1234

By the end, I was bored of him too. My female friends think that I've lost my mind.



*runs off crying *
jb1234
Member
(03-11-2017, 02:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Media



*runs off crying *

Case in point. :p
Media
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(03-11-2017, 02:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by jb1234

Case in point. :p

Bladenic
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(03-11-2017, 02:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Blank!

I hated everything Spike related. That whole romance/plot line was such a turn off on the show for me and it felt like they devoted so much fucking time to it.

Agreed TBH.
Manu
Banned
(03-11-2017, 02:33 AM)

Originally Posted by Rhaknar

thanks for making me feel old. One of the my faves ever along with Angel.

I give the nod to Angel because Angel has my uber bae, Illyria:



and im a sucker for goth demon chicks

I'm always so conflicted about Illyria. Because on one hand (SPOILERS) I loved Fred and her death was possibly the saddest moment on either series. But on the other hand, I fucking LOVE Illyria as a character too.
Aske
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(03-11-2017, 02:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Blank!

I hated everything Spike related. That whole romance/plot line was such a turn off on the show for me and it felt like they devoted so much fucking time to it.

Yep. I get that it was about showing the viewer how damaged Buffy is, developing Spike as a character, showcasing a tumultuous relationship (to say the least); and I think it was well written. But I didn't enjoy it, and I agree that too much time and focus was dedicated to it. That said, I'm probably not the target audience; and I'm glad the storyline gave so much to those who appreciated it.
darkwing-buck
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(03-11-2017, 02:38 AM)
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Angel Season 5 is still the best thing Whedon has ever done imo.
Maligna
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(03-11-2017, 02:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by darkwing-buck

Angel Season 5 is still the best thing Whedon has ever done imo.

Agree. Minus the first 1/4 of the season. Haha.
bitbydeath
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(03-11-2017, 02:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by darkwing-buck

Angel Season 5 is still the best thing Whedon has ever done imo.

Sad, how it just got canned despite being a huge success at the time.

So, he was feeling very confident and he [Joss] just asked Jordan, "Like, make your decision now whether you're going to pick us up or not," and Jordan, sort of with his hands tied, with his back up against the wall, called him the next day and said, "Okay, we're cancelling you."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_(1999_TV_series)
RetroMG
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(03-11-2017, 02:54 AM)
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Season 3 is the best, followed by season 1. (Although I'm always surprised by how short season 1 is.)
Best episode? Ooof. Once More with Feeling is an easy answer, I guess. I also like Band Candy and The Zeppo.
Xander and Spike are probably my favorite characters. (Although the Buffy/Spike romance was terrible. Spike was best when he was Bad.)

I do have trouble watching Buffy anymore, though. Before I was married, lo, many years ago, my roommate would come home every night, make himself dinner, and put in a DVD of Buffy. When he finished the series, he would start back at the beginning. I was so sick of Buffy when I finally moved out.

I do like Angel. I am personally I big fan of season 1, (I loved Doyle) but I also really liked season 5. Something about them trying to fight evil from within Wolfram and Hart while trying not to get sucked into it really appeals to me.
ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(03-11-2017, 03:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by bitbydeath

Sad, how it just got canned despite being a huge success at the time.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_(1999_TV_series)

This is really depressing.There were a number of reports that said The WB was trying to move away from genre television at that point as well, which did seem to be the case. And now The CW is all about it again.

Dumb move on The WB's part. Angel likely would have went on for years if it lasted until The CW.
gun_haver
Member
(03-11-2017, 03:09 AM)
yeah it was too bad angel got cancelled after S5. i don't like S5 as much as most people - i think S2 is by far the best season of the show - but they definitely were in a fertile period and there was a lot more left to do with the characters, especially illyria who had just arrived.

i think the main thing that holds S5 back is the reduced budget and heavy use of the same few sets in the wolfram and hart building. they just don't get out as much, and the expansive world building of S2 is scaled back. so the show feels smaller in a lot of episodes. the final 2 episodes dealing with the apocalypse are tiny in scope - it's a few rooms and an alleyway. they did the best with what they had but i always feel like the show is reduced watching S5.

there is also the fact that there is essentially 1 female cast member, cos harmony hardly counts. they were working on building that back up in the second half of the seasons with nina and harmony though.

S6 would probably have been pretty good!

ah well.
Zepp Twofist
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(03-11-2017, 03:11 AM)
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I would have thought it was older. Remember watching it in my parents basement when I was a kid.

Later I borrowed Angel on DVD from a friend. Might have been the first show I binged watched.
TheVampire
(03-11-2017, 03:12 AM)
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It also sucks that in Season 5 due to timing and scheduling etc... They couldn't get the actors for Buffy or Giles or Dawn....so we got Andrew.
Geist-
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(03-11-2017, 03:16 AM)
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So many great television moments in this show. It's been years since I last rewatched the series, I think it's time to start it up again.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
(03-11-2017, 03:18 AM)

Originally Posted by Sheroking

Spike... redeemed?

Didn't that episode end with him going to kidnap and torture Dru so she'll like him again?

That one, incredible episode.
Replicant
There's a duck in the room
There's a duck i-OWWWW
(03-11-2017, 04:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Blank!

I hated everything Spike related. That whole romance/plot line was such a turn off on the show for me and it felt like they devoted so much fucking time to it.

Seconded, thirded, etc.
Escape Goat
(03-11-2017, 04:58 AM)
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Poor Oz. The definition of an unnecessary character. Poor America. Set Green became a thing.
NipplesAndToes23
Corona Drug Bust
(03-11-2017, 04:59 AM)
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I watched a few episodes here and there years later after I became an adult. It's alright. I do like that Buffy inspired show on Netflix, Crazyhead.
Darksol
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(03-11-2017, 05:35 AM)
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Spike is probably the reason I kept my spikey blonde hair a lot longer than I should have.

Spike, Willow and Giles are absolutely fantastic characters.
dead souls
(03-11-2017, 06:46 AM)

Originally Posted by darkwing-buck

Angel Season 5 is still the best thing Whedon has ever done imo.

It's not even the best Angel season. That would be season four.
ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(03-11-2017, 07:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Escape Goat

Poor Oz. The definition of an unnecessary character. Poor America. Set Green became a thing.

What.
ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(03-11-2017, 07:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by dead souls

It's not even the best Angel season. That would be season four.

That's a pretty damn unpopular opinion to stand on as an argument.

But refreshing to hear, as I love season 4. It was my favorite season when it aired but 3 has moved up to sit alongside it.
Schwarzbier
Junior Member
(03-11-2017, 07:47 AM)
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Yay, Buffy talk!

My favorite season was the third, though most of my favorite episodes were in the second.

My favorite episode was Passion. It pulled at all the right strings for me even though it covered some very rough stuff. After that probably The Wish or The Zeppo.

Still my favorite show of all time, crazy it has been 20 years.
BKatastrophe
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(03-11-2017, 07:56 AM)
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I'm surprised at the love for Angel S4 in this thread. I re-watched the series recently, and I have to say that it's definitely a season that gets much better on multiple viewings. The philosophical ideals tackled in that season are fantastic. And the premise for Cordelia is great although it was taken in an immensely strange direction given Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy.

Also, I like Connor. It's hard to hate an incredibly sympathetic and tragic character.

Anyways:

1. Favorite season?
S3 or S5. Strong villains, story threads, and character development. And pretty strong episodes through and through. Can't think of a single episode in any of the seasons.

2. Favorite episode?
Whooooo boy this is tough. I'll try and go by season:
S1 - "Prophecy Girl". While "Nightmares and Daydreams" was the first episode I really came to love, "Prophecy Girl" was the episode that let me know that this show was fucking special. Something about it that gave it a unique flavor.

S2. - Hmmmmmmm, this is a toughie, because this is one of my least-watched seasons. I'll go with "Passion", though. That's the first episode of the series that made me tear up, and where you really realize that this is a very different kind of threat from the Master and his world domination. This shit is personal beyond all compare. The show really doesn't get any more intimate in terms of villainy.

S3. - Damn, another tough one. I mean, we have "Beauty and the Beasts", which has Oz's most badass moment, the return of a certain character, and it does a great job with the issue of abusive and toxic relationships. But then we also have "Revelations", which has the first physical confrontation between Buffy and Faith, and has a lot of real shit: it's confusing and really emotional for all the characters. A lot of anger and tension that causes a lot of chaos. "Helpless" is incredibly powerful for Buffy, then there's "Bad Girls" and "Consequences". "Amends" is the only Angel-focused episode of the entire season (and one of the very few in the entire series). "The Zeppo", "Doppelgangland", and "The Wish" are all great choices for Xander, Willow, and Cordelia. "Band Candy" is a ton of fun. I quite literally can't decide.

S4. - "This Year's Girl". Dope fight, brings back Faith. Also the beginning of the four-part saga that continues with "Who Are You", and concluding in Angel with "Five by Five" and "Sanctuary" (the superior part of that arc).

S5. - "The Gift". As easy of a choice as it seems, this episode makes me tear up every goddamned time. "The hardest thing to do in this world is to live in it." I said goddamn.

S6. - This is hard purely because I feel like S6 is a really solid season. Like, right in the middle. It's not a bad season, but it's not great. It has some high highs and some low lows, but nothing ever strays too far from the baseline. I'll go with "Normal Again". Boy is that episode haunting.

S7 - "Help". I am by no means an Anya fan, but there is something about this episode that really hits. And it has some really badass lines and moments, but it's also a very melancholy season. This episode really illustrates the, "we're all fucked and just trying to barely hold it together" that really permeates S7 as a whole. Also "Potential" is great, as it's easily Dawn's best episode and Xander's monologue to her at the end gets me every time.
3. Favorite character?
Willow and Oz. I really didn't appreciate Cordelia and Angel until Angel, otherwise I'd say them. I also love Giles, and of course Buffy is great.

Originally Posted by BlastProcessing

I usually recommend that people start with the finale of Season 1 and go into Season 2.

Horrid advice.

Originally Posted by Wet Bloodfart

Season 7 is highly underrated.

For me, its:

3 > 2 > 5 > 7 > 1 > 6 > 4

Such a great show.

It deserves the shit it gets, but not always for the reasons I agree with. For example: Kennedy doesn't piss me off. Rhonda, Andrew, and mopey-bitch-ass Spike do, however.

Originally Posted by Bold One

My bad, season 5 then, such a great season, Tara and Willow, Buffy's mum, the crazy people, the key Spike's turn, that finale - I watched that when it aired.

And yeah, I kinda dug Glory

Glory is fucking great. What's not to dig?

Originally Posted by anaron

Lol what the hell is it with this meme that Angel S5 is good? It's fucking trash.

I swear to god half the reason it's even lauded is because straight dudes were finally comfortable watching a sausage fest.

S5 is a really well-crafted season, minus "Harm's Way". Also, being a straight dude, I'm perfectly comfortable watching the show pre-S5.

Oh, and "You're Welcome" is an amazing piece of television. Most of the episodes in that season are good to great. Again, minus "Harm's Way". And "Life of the Party", actually.

Originally Posted by Bold One

Kennedy almost made the last season of Buffy unwatchable. What an awful awful character. Hated her so much. The show's Connor but much worse.

Rhonda was worse.

Originally Posted by manueldelalas

I'm surprised no one's favorite is Lovers Walk. My favorite so far (early 4th season), Spike redeemed.

Closer to mid-/early-S3.

Originally Posted by AoM

Some ongoing podcasts/media to check out for those who have already seen the show:

- Dusted: couple who unfortunately divorced recently (new co-host around roughly halfway through S6); completed five seasons of Buffy and two seasons of Angel; currently going through S6 of Buffy (and have done some of Angel S3).

- Tiny Fences: two friends, one’s seen both shows, the other hasn’t; currently in S5 of Buffy; also giving mini Angel reviews at the end of their podcasts (and some episodes dedicated entirely to Angel episodes).

- Buffering the Vampire Slayer: couple who have both seen Buffy; create music that encapsulates each episode; currently in S2.

- Passion of the Nerd: YouTube video reviews of Buffy and Angel episodes; currently in S4 of Buffy (and S1 of Angel).

- Big Bad Buffy Interviews: interviews with the cast and crew of the show; so far they’ve interviewed Kristine Sutherland (Joyce), Marcia Shulman (casting director), David Fury (writer/director), Kristy Swanson (original Buffy), David Solomon (producer/director), Stephen Tobolowsky (principal in the unaired pilot), Doug Petrie (writer/director), and Clinton McClung (arranged screenings of OMWF around the country).

I’ll add these (and others anyone knows of) to the OP.

While it's not an ongoing podcast, The Art of Slaying is a really strong retrospective.

Originally Posted by bitbydeath

Not wrong. Post-S5 Spike sucked. Until Angel. Then he's the best.

Originally Posted by Maligna

Agree. Minus the first 1/4 of the season. Haha.

You dissing on "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco"? Fuck out of here.
Last edited by BKatastrophe; 03-11-2017 at 08:00 AM.
MulderYuffie
Member
(03-11-2017, 08:15 AM)
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Wow 20 years??? Jesus crazy how time flies loved this show so much.
Prototype Viktor
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(03-11-2017, 08:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Media



My hearrttrrrtttt.


I also ship Wesley/the Weapon.

.

if people didn't like Spike maybe the Emma/Hook wouldn't have been a thing in Once
Last edited by Prototype Viktor; 03-11-2017 at 08:42 AM.
BKatastrophe
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(03-11-2017, 08:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Prototype Viktor

.

if people didn't like Spike maybe the Emma/Hook wouldn't have been a thing in Once

Which makes me very conflicted, because Emma/Hook sucks and I do enjoy Spike for most of the series.
darkwing-buck
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(03-11-2017, 09:02 AM)
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I didn't care for spike in the later seasons but hoo boy he was glorious in Angel season 5.
Bold One
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(03-11-2017, 09:15 AM)
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Angel Season 4 - was really like two seasons in one, it was great.

Boreanaz stretching his acting chops when he turned in Angelus, one of my favourite eps.

And shout out to STEPHANIE ROMANOV - what a stunner and excellent antagonist.

One of the things Angel does better than Buffy was having a sense of place, LA was a character in the show as well, and the cast of Angel were better rounded and more mature. Plus their script was slightly better, sometimes hearing Xander and Willow talk can be infuriating...
Saty
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(03-11-2017, 09:17 AM)
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One of the best. I don't suppose it got an HD / Bluray treatment right?

For fresh viewers, you'd have to bite your lips a little and finish S1 as it didn't age too well..but after that the show hits its stride.

Sad that SMG didn't really have a notable TV role ever since, and that Whedon's last TV project was a disappointment.
Prototype Viktor
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(03-11-2017, 09:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by BKatastrophe

Which makes me very conflicted, because Emma/Hook sucks and I do enjoy Spike for most of the series.

i would ask how could you but if you like Spike than Hook is almost the same except they of course wouldn't let it go to it's eventual arc of him attempting to rape Emma like Spike did. B/c he did all the other stuff, stalking, sexual harassment, treating her like a object to win, etc
Replicant
There's a duck in the room
There's a duck i-OWWWW
(03-11-2017, 09:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Saty

Sad that SMG didn't really have a notable TV role ever since

She is pretty memorable as Kathryn Merteuil in "Cruel Intentions". That's 2 memorable characters in pop culture history. Pretty good feat imo.

BKatastrophe
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(03-11-2017, 09:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Prototype Viktor

i would ask how could you but if you like Spike than Hook is almost the same except they of course wouldn't let it go to it's eventual arc of him attempting to rape Emma like Spike did. B/c he did all the other stuff, stalking, sexual harassment, treating her like a object to win, etc

Not really. Hook immediately plays the "repentant noble" as soon as he gets the hots for Emma. Also he and Emma have atrocious chemistry. Atrocious.

It's not nearly as fucked up and complicated as Spike and Buffy. In fact most of the bullshit in their relationship is on Emma.
Saty
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(03-11-2017, 09:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Replicant

She is pretty memorable as Kathryn Merteuil in "Cruel Intentions". That's 2 memorable characters in pop culture history. Pretty good feat imo.

On that subject, browsing her IMDB page to see if she has any upcoming projects, i see she starred in a Cruel Intentions TV Movie last year..

--

All this talk about the age of 'Peak TV' but there's still nothing like BTVS. Most of the shows featuring or directed at young adults suck. It's either a CW crappy eye-candy show or another bad comic superhero show.

There's BTVS and there's Veronica Mars. Nothing of note between or since.
Taruranto
<3 BioWare <3
(03-11-2017, 10:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Manu

I'm always so conflicted about Illyria. Because on one hand (SPOILERS) I loved Fred and her death was possibly the saddest moment on either series. But on the other hand, I fucking LOVE Illyria as a character too.

Illyria cemented Amy Acker as the best actor in the show for me. The way she went from Fred to Illyria to Fred again in some scenes was woah.

Originally Posted by Lothar

Season 3
I don't know about individual episodes.
Spike

Make a Buffy movie with SMG already. She's only 39. They're still young. Why don't they do it?

After the comics I'm not sure I want Whedon to touch anything Buffy-related again. :P
BKJest
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(03-11-2017, 10:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bold One

Boreanaz stretching his acting chops when he turned in Angelus, one of my favourite eps.

Thanks to this thread I started yet another a rewatch with Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest. And boy his acting in the early episodes is ROUGH. At this point it's almost unbelievable he has been a lead actor in television for nearly 20 years straight.
DarthMasta
Member
(03-11-2017, 10:23 AM)

Originally Posted by Taruranto

After the comics I'm not sure I want Whedon to touch anything Buffy-related again. :P

Yeah, the comics make it clear he didn't necessarily understand why Buffy worked.
Aske
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(03-11-2017, 11:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by Replicant

She is pretty memorable as Kathryn Merteuil in "Cruel Intentions". That's 2 memorable characters in pop culture history. Pretty good feat imo.

She's also great in the a Scooby Doo movies. I assumed these were irrelevant kids movies for decades, then watched them on Netflix, and they're both awesome.

You're right about Buffy and Kathryn having the most cultural weight though. Both incredible roles.

I feel like she often picks interesting roles that ought to be very special, and then gets let down by things beyond her control. The Grudge was a great choice that became an excellent movie, but Veronica Decides to Die and Ringer would have sounded very promising when they were pitched to her, and I'm sure The Crazy Ones was sold as "30 Rock with Robin Williams". I wish she'd scored her own Bones or How I Met Your Mother, but she still has plenty of time.
Last edited by Aske; 03-11-2017 at 11:10 AM.
haimon
Member
(03-11-2017, 11:34 AM)
Loved Buffy.

But anything that ended up giving us smile time is always amazing in my book.
Kayhan
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(03-11-2017, 11:36 AM)
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Happy 20 years, Buffy-waifu.
bitbydeath
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(03-11-2017, 11:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Saty

Sad that SMG didn't really have a notable TV role ever since, and that Whedon's last TV project was a disappointment.

It only lasted one season but I thought "Ringer" was really good.
DeathyBoy
A lot of loyalty for a hired gun!
(03-11-2017, 11:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Replicant

She is pretty memorable as Kathryn Merteuil in "Cruel Intentions". That's 2 memorable characters in pop culture history. Pretty good feat imo.

At some point they'll bring Buffy back with SMG in the role.

When? No idea. But it'll happen. Just needs enough distance between it ending and it coming back. And if they bring it back on the CW, I can see Joss getting a lot more creative control than anything else he's ever done.

Originally Posted by DarthMasta

Yeah, the comics make it clear he didn't necessarily understand why Buffy worked.

The comics aren't that bad, the problem is that Buffy really was a show where the writing inspired the actors and the actors inspired the writing. Like ASH IS Giles. You can't have someone else play that role. Same with AH as Willow, and even NB as Xavier (fuck up that the guy is in real life and state of his career, he brought so much to that character.) The best examples are JM/AD as Spike/Wesley. Both characters were intended for short arcs and the actors were so good that the writers gave them more to do and eventually they were permanent fixtures.

Also, Anya. That character only works with that actress.
Last edited by DeathyBoy; 03-11-2017 at 11:59 AM.
shawnbuddy
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(03-11-2017, 01:02 PM)
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My favorite show of all time.

My favorite season is three for being the culmination of the "high school is hell" theme.

My favorite episode is Once More With Feeling for the music and the emotional beats.

My favorite character is Willow for adorableness with an edge. Or some days Cordelia for speaking the truth and passing on tact.
Lucumo
Member
(03-11-2017, 01:11 PM)
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Only watched bits and pieces here and there. Tried to go from the beginning then but burned out early in season 2, I think?

Anyway, I really like "Once More, With Feeling".
SpideySenses
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(03-11-2017, 01:25 PM)
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Buffy was a show of two halves for me, loved the school/collage years but found the later years lacking, even season five which is considered by many as the best. With Angel, the highs weren't as high and it's low were probably lower but I still ended up enjoying it more overall.
Metalmarc
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(03-11-2017, 01:47 PM)
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Oh i just found out SyFy Uk are playing the 20 best episodes this weekend, some on now

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