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Imperfected
Member
(04-21-2017, 08:21 AM)
It's a tough choice. On the one hand, it's probably the right move financially and most likely builds a lot of excitement and inclusiveness in the community. On the other hand, it might lead to people playing Vintage.
ironmang
Member
(04-21-2017, 08:57 AM)
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Looks like I picked a good time to ditch most of my legacy cards and put together the T1 deck with no RL cards. Not that I'm completely sold but I'd rather not be holding onto duals I barely play if it does happen.

Wish they would have dropped it a few years ago while legacy was still somewhat relevant. Unless they do the MM1 thing and spoil a RL far ahead of release it'd probably be too late for any 2018 schedules to change. Would be nice if this gets enough interest so SCG at least starts doing classics again.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
(04-21-2017, 09:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by charlequin

From who?

It's very well established that while it's not all, a serious majority of players prefer eliminating the list.

All of the major dealers prefer a world without the reserved list because reserved cards are actually a bad investment due to high pricepoint and low liquidity.

I don't see any evidence that there's a sizeable group who are seriously negatively impacted by this decision and would complain in a way that would register above the universal complaining that follows every WotC decision.



This literally happens like twice a month for WotC so the incentive to care about this happening at all is deeply reduced unless it affects some other metric they actually care about, which in this case it would not.

There's that one guy that hated Day's Undoing on GAF.
Violet_0
Banned
(04-21-2017, 09:03 AM)
does anyone else think the new minotaur brawler might be a bit of a trap? It still dies to fatal push and harnessed lightning, which most decks run, and you're likely getting 1 for 2'd most of the time unless you run scrounger or some madness shenanigans, which you can't anyway on tapped out lands. If the card become prevalent people just stop using shock and it's hard-countered easily
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
(04-21-2017, 09:05 AM)
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Also, lol @ all the people spitballing removing the RL. They're not removing the Reserved List. It's going to be a bunch of fucking Serra Angels and Akroma Angel of Wraths and me laughing.

Originally Posted by Violet_0

does anyone else think the new minotaur brawler might be a bit of a trap? It still dies to fatal push and harnessed lightning, which most decks run, and you're likely getting 1 for 2'd most of the time unless you run scrounger or some madness shenanigans, which you can't anyway on tapped out lands. If the card become prevalent people just stop using shock and it's hard-countered easily

It's not a trap at all. You are playing Bloodrage Brawler in decks that want to discard Fiery Temper or, specifically, Honored Hydra, and then activate Rhonas, Hazoret and/or Lupine Prototype. It's an engine card for a deck that wants to discard things.

A deck built around Bloodrage Brawler rarely gets 2 for 1'd by playing the card unless they kept an obvious mulligan.
ironmang
Member
(04-21-2017, 09:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

Also, lol @ all the people spitballing removing the RL. They're not removing the Reserved List. It's going to be a bunch of fucking Serra Angels and Akroma Angel of Wraths and me laughing.

They have to do something to justify $10 packs. I don't think any of us fully believe RL is going away but they're not oblivious to how much potential exists that's being held back by this 15-20 year pinky swear. There is a limit on iconic cards they can print that haven't been reprinted in Eternal Masters or Modern Masters 3. Reprinting Wasteland again will generate no hype, for example.
charlequin
is not aware of current grape prices
(04-21-2017, 09:25 AM)
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Yeah this RL discussion is mostly happening because it's more interesting than fucking hydras but it's true that there's kind of a question how Iconic Masters is supposed to justify its value. After MM3 the idea that they're just gonna try to dump garbage out on the market should be fairly well disposed of, but the exact path to a valuable set there certainly isn't clear.
Son1x
Member
(04-21-2017, 11:49 AM)
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I'm not really sure what they do print in Iconic Masters to justify the 10€ price tag. We already got a lot of cards in MM3 and EMA. Not to mention that MM3 was among the worst things they did. While some cards dropped in price (mostly semi cheap ones like IoK, Path and Abrupt Decay), fetch lands are already back at their original price, as are many other cards like Cavern, Snapcaster and Blood Moon. As for the cards that weren't reprinted, they skyrocketed the day they were out in number crunch. Printing all these playable cards also means they probably are not printing them soon again, which just makes everything worse.

I'm all for abolishing the reserve list but like many others said, I kinda doubt they'd do it so abruptly.
ironmang
Member
(04-21-2017, 12:31 PM)
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Thinking about going to Vintage Champs since it's like an hour away and I'll already be going for Legacy. Question for you guys who follow vintage: how viable is white trash? Only power I'll have available will be a Pearl. Obviously I'm not expecting to have a chance at winning or probably even prizing but if some matches against the staples can be close then I think it'd be fun to throw down with the dentists and day traders of the magic community. Playmat might even cover my entry too lol.
ThLunarian
Member
(04-21-2017, 12:31 PM)
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If this new set isn't a Reserved List nuke, then I wouldn't be surprised if Wotc is seeing speculation about it and thinking "oh fuck, we didn't consider that people might think this and now our cute gimmick is going to seem really lame in comparison. Now what?"
ironmang
Member
(04-21-2017, 12:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThLunarian

If this new set isn't a Reserved List nuke, then I wouldn't be surprised if Wotc is seeing speculation about it and thinking "oh fuck, we didn't consider that people might think this and now our cute gimmick is going to seem really lame in comparison. Now what?"

They have to have some kind of plans for the set since it'll be fighting for dollars in the most competitive time of the year. Thought that's why they previously stayed away from mid-late fall except for supplement products which conveniently make good stocking stuffers.
Bandini
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by ironmang

Thinking about going to Vintage Champs since it's like an hour away and I'll already be going for Legacy. Question for you guys who follow vintage: how viable is white trash? Only power I'll have available will be a Pearl. Obviously I'm not expecting to have a chance at winning or probably even prizing but if some matches against the staples can be close then I think it'd be fun to throw down with the dentists and day traders of the magic community. Playmat might even cover my entry too lol.

I'd say go for it, man. The meta is like 40% Mentor and MUD so if you can hate out those decks you've got a shot to pick up some match wins. Here's one recent deck I found you could get some ideas from http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13947&d=282581&f=VI

Vintage is fun as hell, good luck!
Cipher Peon
Banned
(04-21-2017, 03:13 PM)
I won't be able to make a pre-release for Amonkhet :c

My girlfriend is visiting for the weekend tonight and while last time we went to a pre-release together, this weekend is con weekend and there's no way I'm going to have the energy to stay up until 4am tonight and then wake up at 7am tomorrow.

There's always the next one! ^^
Simply Sarah
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Son1x

I'm not really sure what they do print in Iconic Masters to justify the 10 price tag. We already got a lot of cards in MM3 and EMA. Not to mention that MM3 was among the worst things they did. While some cards dropped in price (mostly semi cheap ones like IoK, Path and Abrupt Decay), fetch lands are already back at their original price, as are many other cards like Cavern, Snapcaster and Blood Moon. As for the cards that weren't reprinted, they skyrocketed the day they were out in number crunch. Printing all these playable cards also means they probably are not printing them soon again, which just makes everything worse.

I'm all for abolishing the reserve list but like many others said, I kinda doubt they'd do it so abruptly.

Huh? Almost all those listed cards remain cheaper than they were before MM3 (Snapcaster is perhaps a bit of an exception). Blood Moon is significantly cheaper than it was before, MM3 Linvala is about 25% the cost of the ROE version pre-MM3, Damnation is vastly cheaper, all the fetches remain down a good bit even if they bounced back some and may remain expensive.

That said, I agree it's unclear what they'll be able to print in Iconic Masters to make the price point seem reasonable while also making it balanced for drafting and feel special instead of just being a mix between Modern and Eternal Masters.
Giant Panda
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:46 PM)
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If I understand copyright laws correctly, then 75 years after the initial printing, people could legally print reserved list cards as copyright would have expired. The reserve list's days are numbered!
GregLombardi
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Giant Panda

If I understand copyright laws correctly, then 75 years after the initial printing, people could legally print reserved list cards as copyright would have expired. The reserve list's days are numbered!

So I need to unload my duals before I am 85 or so, good to know. If I am still playing this game at 85, a lot of things went right for me.
divisionbyzorro
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Giant Panda

If I understand copyright laws correctly, then 75 years after the initial printing, people could legally print reserved list cards as copyright would have expired. The reserve list's days are numbered!

Don't worry - Mickey Mouse will make sure that never happens.
OnPoint
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:01 PM)
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What's this noise about MM3 not helping prices? That's crazy talk.

Let's look at Scalding Tarn for example.

That looks like a card that has dropped pretty significantly over the last bunch of months, and it even saw an extra little drop when MM3 came out. Take $10 off if you want the MM2017 version.

Moving onto Damnation...

The card was priced, before this version showed up, approximately at the top of the graph and has come down significantly .And even stayed now.

Hell, even Tarmogoyf has seen quite the cut, finally, three limited printings later.

This is a pretty good trajectory down, and the MM2017 version is about 10 bucks cheaper than this.

Also, most of if not all of the heavily played cards WILL trend back up. You have to treat MM releases as a sale like SaffronOlive said in that article. Get in before they go up, or you end up with a situation like this...

MoxManiac
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:23 PM)
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I'm still mad that we probably won't ever see the enemy fetches in a standard set now. MM2017 did drop the prices but $30-50 a pop is still not affordable to me.
OnPoint
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:25 PM)
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You're not wrong Mox. They're ridiculous prices. But I bought in this time because I don't know if they'll ever get cheaper than this. The good news is I don't have much in the way of cards that I need to buy anymore.
y2dvd
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by MoxManiac

I'm still mad that we probably won't ever see the enemy fetches in a standard set now. MM2017 did drop the prices but $30-50 a pop is still not affordable to me.

Surprised it didn't see a conspiracy reprint tbh. That would've seen ally fetch lands type price drop while at the same time not breaking standard.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThLunarian

If this new set isn't a Reserved List nuke, then I wouldn't be surprised if Wotc is seeing speculation about it and thinking "oh fuck, we didn't consider that people might think this and now our cute gimmick is going to seem really lame in comparison. Now what?"

If Maro or Forscythe or someone doesn't come out and correct this in the near future I'm going to assume it is a real possibility. They've been pretty good about curbing false expectations. My favorite was a guy claiming he went hundred of shocks deep when people thought the Eternal format got leaked, then Forscythe shut it down.
DrArchon
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by y2dvd

Surprised it didn't see a conspiracy reprint tbh. That would've seen ally fetch lands type price drop while at the same time not breaking standard.

They should at least reprint them in some Commander products, for those of us EDH players out there that would love a single Scalding Tarn or Misty Rainforest for our decks but can't justify spending $50 for a single land in a casual deck.

Yeah, they'd probably just make sure all the packs get bought by scalpers, but just print more and more! I don't care!
Firemind
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by DrArchon

They should at least reprint them in some Commander products, for those of us EDH players out there that would love a single Scalding Tarn or Misty Rainforest for our decks but can't justify spending $50 for a single land in a casual deck.

Yeah, they'd probably just make sure all the packs get bought by scalpers, but just print more and more! I don't care!

You don't need fetchlands in a casual format.
MoxManiac
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Firemind

You don't need fetchlands in a casual format.

I dunno, I have some EDH decks that really need a couple enemy fetches. Part of that is my weird insistence on not including off-color fetches though.
TheChits
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ashodin

I just want more dudes with greatswords

Like my homie Rafiq of the Many

This will always be one of my favorite cards/artwork in magic.
Santiako
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:06 PM)
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Well, at least they closed that line of speculation quickly

https://mobile.twitter.com/wizards_m...50003631767552


Magic: The Gathering‏ @wizards_magic

Replying to @SaffronOlive
We will not be reprinting reserved list cards. There are plenty of iconic cards outside of them.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
(04-21-2017, 06:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Santiako

Well, at least they closed that line of speculation quickly

https://mobile.twitter.com/wizards_m...50003631767552


Magic: The Gathering‏ @wizards_magic

Replying to @SaffronOlive
We will not be reprinting reserved list cards. There are plenty of iconic cards outside of them.

And Vintage continues its slow decline.

(It probably wasn't gonna happen, sure, but was nice to dream for a little while)
red13th
(04-21-2017, 06:10 PM)
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So the most stupid out of the several stupid things that happened to Magic remain. Let's move on.
OnPoint
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:14 PM)
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I am relieved from a selfish perspective because my duals would be worth squat overnight if that happened.

I am annoyed from a player perspective because god damn it I want to play Legacy with lots and lots of people.
ironmang
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:21 PM)
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So likely most will be just reprints we already got within the last year just with different symbols. *yawn*
SigmasonicX
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:27 PM)
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Player survey, about what you prioritize in Magic as a player.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
(04-21-2017, 06:27 PM)
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There's basically no way they will be able to justify $10 packs on a second Masters set in a year with just fucking Angels and Demons.

WOTC let it get to their heads and they're going to blame the community for this failing.
Santiako
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:30 PM)
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After MM17 (arguably the best set of all time) I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume there's more to the set than iconic dragons, demons and angels (and lol hydras and sphinxes).
OnPoint
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:35 PM)
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Part of me wants to believe they wouldn't charge $10 a pack for a sub-par set. MM2017 set the bar really high. Then part of me realizes that the "Masters" line will probably always debut at $10 a pack for brand cohesion purposes. So hopefully it's not a flop of a setlist and they pick some actual good stuff. Sneak Attack and Show and Tell could use another couple of printings :)
Violet_0
Banned
(04-21-2017, 06:35 PM)
what would be some decent targets for Deep Dwellers to flash back for Izzet colors? I'm only really certain about Sweltering Suns and Harnessed Lightning so far. Some more removal and burn would be nice, nothing really pops out for me at the moment though. Also, any standard-playable card for Izzet to deal with gods on the board? Heck, I'd play Imprisoned in the Moon if it had flash

Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

It's not a trap at all. You are playing Bloodrage Brawler in decks that want to discard Fiery Temper or, specifically, Honored Hydra, and then activate Rhonas, Hazoret and/or Lupine Prototype. It's an engine card for a deck that wants to discard things.

A deck built around Bloodrage Brawler rarely gets 2 for 1'd by playing the card unless they kept an obvious mulligan.

hm, gotta admit I forgot about the Rhonas/Hazoret synergy for a moment there. I have a feeling that Gruul deck will be quite popular
Infinite Stars
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(04-21-2017, 06:37 PM)
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I mean, I do wonder how they're going to try and sell $10 Packs during the biggest sale period of the year and not have something big in store

At the very least, I would kill for an Aether Vial Reprint. Card shouldn't be that expensive.
ironmang
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Santiako

After MM17 (arguably the best set of all time) I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume there's more to the set than iconic dragons, demons and angels (and lol hydras and sphinxes).

They're running out of attention grabbers though. Port and Mana Drain are two of the only cards that are iconic, expensive, non-RL, and haven't been reprinted in a booster set.
MoxManiac
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:40 PM)
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Well that probably deflated hype a bit.

I'm scratching my head at expensive old-ass cards that they could include that aren't on the RL.

Mana Drain is probably the biggest one? And it qualifies as iconic.

Demonic Tutor needs a reprint but a $20 card isn't as exciting to open when the packs cost $10.

Rishaden Port seems likely.

FoW is probably going to show up again.

They are going to have to have overlap with EMA and the three MMA sets heavily to justify the premium price.
OnPoint
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:43 PM)
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Good call Infinite. Let's set up for disappointment now:

Cards I hope for.
- Aether Vial
- Ancestral Visions
- Mishra's Bauble
- Show and Tell
- Sneak Attack
- Jace the Mind Sculptor
- Scapeshift
- Lotus Bloom
- Through the Breach

Not expecting many if any of those.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
(04-21-2017, 06:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Infinite Stars

I mean, I do wonder how they're going to try and sell $10 Packs during the biggest sale period of the year and not have something big in store

At the very least, I would kill for an Aether Vial Reprint. Card shouldn't be that expensive.

None of the actual good cards that see play in formats people play (e.g. Modern) are "Iconic."

I'm sure they'll throw JTMS in the set for shits and giggles (as well as a bunch of other rando staples that aren't "iconic" in any way, but the only format people actually play with regularity its legal in is EDH. I think WOTC is very much overestimating the appetite for $10 lottery packs.
ironmang
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:57 PM)
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Ancestral Visions would be a funny card to include. Bootleg version of actual iconic card.
OnPoint
Member
(04-21-2017, 07:02 PM)
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What I'm expecting.
Animate Dead is now mythic

"This was THE reanimation spell back in the day.
But it breaks limited in a way we can't get around.
Also we still can't reduce the amount of text on it."
Ok I'm joking. But I have no idea how they make this work.
Simply Sarah
Member
(04-21-2017, 07:03 PM)
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See, if there are some moderately priced cards with kickass new art I'd be excited for that too. Not $10 excited but yeah. Also, there are still a lot of moderate value cards they could print even if none of them is opening LotV or Goyf. To me, opening a $10 rare for a $10 pack isn't that bad as long as this is the case for almost all the rares/mythics.

Originally Posted by SigmasonicX

Player survey, about what you prioritize in Magic as a player.

I took it but there weren't question about the importance of Stasis locking my opponent or dropping a T1 Blood Moon in Commander against a Hermit Druid deck. :(
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
(04-21-2017, 07:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by ironmang

Ancestral Visions would be a funny card to include. Bootleg version of actual iconic card.

They should just make the whole set full of bootleg iconics.

Time Warp ---> It's sort of like Time Walk!
Day's Undoing ---> It's sort of like Timetwister!
Chrome Mox ---> It's sort of like a Mox!
Lotus Bloom ---> It's sort of like Black Lotus!
Shocklands ---> They're sort of like dual lands!
Damping Matrix ---> It's sort of like Null Rod!

Originally Posted by Simply Sarah

See, if there are some moderately priced cards with kickass new art I'd be excited for that too. Not $10 excited but yeah. Also, there are still a lot of moderate value cards they could print even if none of them is opening LotV or Goyf. To me, opening a $10 rare for a $10 pack isn't that bad as long as this is the case for almost all the rares/mythics.



I took it but there weren't question about the importance of Stasis locking my opponent or dropping a T1 Blood Moon in Commander against a Hermit Druid deck. :(

Nothing says "iconic" like new art
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(04-21-2017, 07:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by SigmasonicX

Player survey, about what you prioritize in Magic as a player.

The grammar in this survey is bonkers
Santiako
Member
(04-21-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

Nothing says "iconic" like new art

That's the only thing we know about the set though, that it will feature tons of new art.
OnPoint
Member
(04-21-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Yo what if they print all the old cards in old borders but updated with the hologram?
aidan
Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
(04-21-2017, 07:15 PM)
Since we have a solid answer to the Reserved List discussion, should we go back to discussing whether Stoneforge Mystic should be unbanned in Modern? Or are we back around to bitching about how lame the Gatewatch is?
red13th
(04-21-2017, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by OnPoint

Yo what if they print all the old cards in old borders but updated with the hologram?

Please don't do this WotC. The people who want old cards with the old frame already have the original printings. This would be incredibly stupid (which is why I see them doing it).

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