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AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
(04-05-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by GameAddict411

Considering I am seeing people on here part of the faith, I would like to for you to explain to me how people are disfellowshipped for the stupidest reasons? I know a few of my friends who grew up in Jehovah witnesses families but they were abused for being gay(demonized even) or for simplist violation of their beliefs. They were kicked out of their homes when they are very young as well. Families are torn apart. How can there be justification for that?

Do you think this behavior is isolated to one religious organization (or indeed BECAUSE of that religious affiliation) or do you think this is just a common occurrence in our society?

Note: Though I was raised in the religion I no longer actively participate because I was groomed and molested by a pedophile and the congregation heads did not pursue legal action against the individual. I've got plenty of legitimate gripes against the organization.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
(04-05-2017, 07:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by AbortedWalrusFetus

Do you think this behavior is isolated to one religious organization (or indeed BECAUSE of that religious affiliation) or do you think this is just a common occurrence in our society?

Note: Though I was raised in the religion I no longer actively participate because I was groomed and molested by a pedophile and the congregation heads did not pursue legal action against the individual. I've got plenty of legitimate gripes against the organization.


That's messed up..sorry, walrus..
Newline
Member
(04-05-2017, 07:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Damage Inc

I sent my brother in law a text. He is an elder so it will be easy to find out.

All you have to do is read their publications.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012124

Take a look at the section titled 'HELP THEM TO EMBRACE TRUE WORSHIP'.

Here's the abridged version:
My husband physically abused me. Rather than blaming him, I should look to alter my own behaviour. You know... perhaps i'm too naggy, therefore asking to be hit. After 17 years of modifying my behaviour my husband changed his ways and joined the faith.

Nothing in there about contacting the police after abuse, infact you should put up with it for years and hope his behaviour changes. God forbid you choose to divorce the man. It's rather archaic advice when taken in the context of modern western societies.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
(04-05-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway

That's messed up..sorry, walrus..

I didn't get it as bad as other kids (and perhaps my brother). Fondling of my genitalia, forced touching of his, always clothed. I consider myself lucky. Doesn't mean I'm not angry about it or the way it was handled.
sora87
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(04-05-2017, 07:30 PM)
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My mum and sister are JW's and it's upsetting seeing them upset about events over there. I don't agree with what they believe in but it's harmless, seeing this happen is saddening.
Arkeband
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(04-05-2017, 07:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by sora87

My mum and sister are JW's and it's upsetting seeing them upset about events over there. I don't agree with what they believe in but it's harmless, seeing this happen is saddening.

The examples given in this thread of excommunication, the risk of parents letting sick children die, and congregations covering for child sexual abuse seems like harmless is not the proper descriptor.
Damage Inc
Member
(04-05-2017, 07:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Da-Kid

If there was one thing I agreed with is a better way to discipline than being Disfellowship. That's just too much mental and social anguish.

Disfellowshipping isn't handed out like candy like some people think. Usually there is a reason or unforgiveness. And it usually is after a long dileberation. There are ways of council that isn't DF. I have made plenty of mistakes growing up and never had a worry about that. Now I have had friends who would sleep around and get disfellowshipped. If the sin wasn't public it the potential to be handled without a DF depending on what it is.

Edit: I have to get back to work now. Spent a bit too much time posting.
Last edited by Damage Inc; 04-05-2017 at 07:38 PM.
Dude Abides
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(04-05-2017, 07:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Arkeband

The examples given in this thread of excommunication, the risk of parents letting sick children die, and congregations covering for child sexual abuse seems like harmless is not the proper descriptor.

It certainly isn't harmless but I doubt those things are the reason for the Russian crackdown.
LookAtMeGo
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(04-05-2017, 08:18 PM)
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Yeah, the disfellowshipping is harsh. I've seen it destroy so many families including mine. They definitely need some revisions on some of their practices. They used to celebrate Christmas afterall. But definitely they are some of the most kind, caring and non violent people I have ever known. But they are convinced that this is gods way. Unfortunately when you full on believe in an all powerful mighty creator, his law means more than family. The fear of god is real.

I have my beef with the religion since after leaving, my family wouldn't speak to me. To this day its impossible for me to have a normal relationship with my family that is still in it and the friends that I had growing up in it wont speak to me.

To be fair, I'd probably be better off had I stayed in the religion. I got into so much shit after I left. They say they tried to guard me against that, but when you don't believe something, its hard to force it. And cutting me off from the family wasnt exactly a good way to help guard me from "the wicked things of the world" but it is what it is. Its almost like I was forced into the life I had because of how I was dealt with. They always just held out the belief that I would return the the prodigal son.

So at the end of the day I would never support a banning of the religion. If anyone was ever go after my family, I would be there to defend them with violence if necessary. Since they wouldnt be.
Last edited by LookAtMeGo; 04-05-2017 at 08:20 PM.
R0ckman
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(04-05-2017, 08:25 PM)
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These guys are still around with enough presence to be considered a threat? There was a local place near where I grew up and I use to drive by there while going back and forth to work. The place is completely dead now, like a phantom of what it use to be. Looked into it and their places seem to be closing like crazy.
The Albatross
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(04-05-2017, 08:27 PM)
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Jehovah's are a little out there, but generally, very nice, kind people who just see the world differently than most, but in a way that generally doesn't harm anyone.

Every Jehovah's Witness that I've ever talked to has always been very kind and understanding that I'm not interested in their belief system. They're polite and respectful.

Obviously Putin sees them as a threat.
WillyFive
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(04-05-2017, 09:48 PM)
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The ban would be very misguided, and would actually increase the resolve and spread of the group within the country.

Originally Posted by R0ckman

These guys are still around with enough presence to be considered a threat? There was a local place near where I grew up and I use to drive by there while going back and forth to work. The place is completely dead now, like a phantom of what it use to be. Looked into it and their places seem to be closing like crazy.

Growth is mostly localized in developing countries; it is stagnant and declining in first world countries, mostly due to the rise of the internet and access to information about the group from sources outside of the Watchtower company.
Madness
Member
(04-05-2017, 10:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Giggles

Wait, those nice smiling people that come to my door from time to time are now extremists? What? How...in any way or form are they extremists?

Many non-Western countries with a state sponsored religion ban or attempt to limit proselytizing by religious groups. Russia is a former communist and state sponsored atheist state so it isn't surprising here. Look at the treatment of religious groups in China and North Korea. Even simple Christian pastors helping feed starving people get jailed especially if they're from South Korea etc. Missionaries are often banned in several countries.

As for this news, it is interesting to see how 40 years ago, the Russians were called godless commies and and now that they have reimbraced orthodox Russian Christianity, they are called crazy religious fanatics. This is just a way for Putin to oppose someine who goes against the state. The more support he gets from the cultural power of the Russian Orthodox Church, the more legitimate his rule.
Prost
Member
(04-05-2017, 10:31 PM)

Originally Posted by Newline

From my knowledge domestic abuse is behaviour that can be altered and modified. A woman shouldn't resort to divorce in this case as they see the mans behaviour as being fixable. From my experiences getting the authorities involved is to be avoided if at all possible. It should be handled by the elders of the congregation.

Er... dude, if a guy is beating the shit of his wife he needs to be arrested and jailed (vice versa too). What you're writing here IS extreme. People should not be expected to endure violence from their spouses and then appeal to congregational leaders to 'fix' it. Gross.

edit: may have read your convo out of context
Last edited by Prost; 04-05-2017 at 10:34 PM.
TemplaerDude
(04-05-2017, 10:32 PM)
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Annoying, maybe. Extremist, I dunno about that.
Damage Inc
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(04-05-2017, 10:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Newline

All you have to do is read their publications.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012124

Take a look at the section titled 'HELP THEM TO EMBRACE TRUE WORSHIP'.

Here's the abridged version:
My husband physically abused me. Rather than blaming him, I should look to alter my own behaviour. You know... perhaps i'm too naggy, therefore asking to be hit. After 17 years of modifying my behaviour my husband changed his ways and joined the faith.

Nothing in there about contacting the police after abuse, infact you should put up with it for years and hope his behaviour changes. God forbid you choose to divorce the man. It's rather archaic advice when taken in the context of modern western societies.

So I talked to my brother in law. He said absolutely it can and should be reported to authorities and that would be grounds for separation. The wife would not be expected to stay with an abusive or neglectful spouse.

I believe the article you linked was someone's experience, not hard line fact. I was only able to read the small section while working.

Bear in mind that it would be up to the person in the situation to report it. If she doesn't want to they can not force her to do so.
Wagram
Member
(04-05-2017, 10:51 PM)
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I read the title quick and thought it said Jenovah's Witnesses.
Kwixotik
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(04-05-2017, 11:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Da-Kid

Not true, you're only dis-fellowshiped if you do something against the Bible that's considered a gross sin,that's only if you're caught, someone tells, or you tell on yourself but if you just leave, you're just labeled as inactive. If you say you don't want to be a witness, you're not disfellowshiped.

My fiancee who I've been in a relationship with for over 10 years was disfellowshipped for sleeping in the same bed as me.

Her dad was an abusive alcoholic with family history of schizophrenia and was having hallucinations about demons in their house. He was becoming increasingly erratic and threatening. Her mom went to the elders about it and they told her she shouldn't go behind her husbands back and told him he should probably stop drinking and to get his family under control. (Sidenote: what a fucking great thing to tell an abusive alcoholic who is hallucinating demons in his home and attributing them to his family's imagined sins. Get them under control, ye patriarch.) And that was it.

Her whole family has left the Witnesses as of 2 years ago. It's typically very difficult to leave because you're cut off from all of your support network because they shun you. Since they all left together, they've done very well. They're much happier and her dad has stopped drinking. They've got nothing positive to say about the Watchtower.

And maybe officially you're "shunned" only if you're officially disfellowshipped, but trust me. Her family (parents, siblings) is dead to her extended family and it's taboo for any Witnesses to speak of or associate with them in any capacity.

I'll add this too: my own father was raised a JW. He won't even talk about it to me besides one time telling me his father used to discipline him by cutting him with a knife. And judging by your own thread history, your dad kinda sucks too. Not saying there's a pattern of abuse within the organization, but yeah.
Last edited by Kwixotik; 04-06-2017 at 12:28 AM.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
(04-05-2017, 11:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kwixotik

My fiancee who I've been in a relationship with for over 10 years was disfellowshipped for sleeping in the same bed as me.

Her dad was an abusive alcoholic with family history of schizophrenia and was having hallucinations about demons in their house. He was becoming increasingly erratic and threatening. Her mom went to the elders about it and they told her she shouldn't go behind her husbands back and told him he should probably stop drinking and to get his family under control. (Sidenote: what a fucking great thing to tell an abusive alcoholic who is hallucinating demons in his home and attributing them to his family's imagined sins. Get them under control, ye patriarch.) And that was it.

Her whole family has left the Witnesses as of 2 years ago. It's typically very difficult to leave because you're cut off from all of your support network because they shun you. Since they all left together, they've done very well. They're much happier and her dad has stopped drinking. They've got nothing positive to say about the Watchtower.

And maybe officially you're "shunned" only if you're officially disfellowshipped, but trust me. Her family (parents, siblings) is dead to her extended family and it's taboo for any Witnesses to speak of or associate with them in any capacity.

Last year, the JWs had a worldwide conference that basically encouraged people divorce themselves from any family member who was against church doctrines. They've got a massive problem with the internet waking people up to their bullshit.

You'll see this in how they've changed tactics from door knocking to hanging out in places where there's a lot of traffic.

It is most definitely a cult, a particularly stupid one to find yourself in too, unless you're born into it.
Dragon Puncher
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(04-06-2017, 12:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tevious

JWs don't even vote. What are they afraid of?

It's the same reason Jehovas Witnesses has been branded as dangerous group by authoritarian regimes for years. They don't see the leader/state as the absolute authority.
Volimar
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(04-06-2017, 12:20 AM)
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There's a big range of orthodoxies in JWs too, though they'd never admit it. There are two Kingdom Halls in my hometown and one is the friendly, somewhat annoying congregation that are mostly harmless. The only disfellowship I ever knew about from my time involved with them (thanks grandma) was a guy who had an affair.

The other Kingdom Hall, from what I've been told, was much more strict, and much more likely to disfellow or threaten disfellowship for silly things like a teenager going to a boy/girl dance. I'd hate to see the kind of pressure they apply to members over the stupidest things. Still, extremist? HA!
Venomgxt
Member
(04-06-2017, 12:34 AM)
Lmao this is crazy. I noticed a letter in my living room with my mother's name on it for Vladimir Putin and I thought it was some kind of joke.
Nanashrew
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(04-06-2017, 12:45 AM)
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My mom was in an abusive relationship but she got help from family and the kingdom hall...

EDIT: My mom also divorced too.
Last edited by Nanashrew; 04-06-2017 at 01:10 AM.
Damage Inc
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(04-06-2017, 12:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Volimar

There's a big range of orthodoxies in JWs too, though they'd never admit it. There are two Kingdom Halls in my hometown and one is the friendly, somewhat annoying congregation that are mostly harmless. The only disfellowship I ever knew about from my time involved with them (thanks grandma) was a guy who had an affair.

The other Kingdom Hall, from what I've been told, was much more strict, and much more likely to disfellow or threaten disfellowship for silly things like a teenager going to a boy/girl dance. I'd hate to see the kind of pressure they apply to members over the stupidest things. Still, extremist? HA!

It's all the same teachings and rules. Some halls are more outgoing or touchy than others because of the human element. I have been to halls where I fit in with people more than others.

There were some elders that were a bit more strict but they were generally older and they were replaced in my area. There is generally a younger generation of elders now.
Da-Kid
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(04-06-2017, 01:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Damage Inc

Disfellowshipping isn't handed out like candy like some people think. Usually there is a reason or unforgiveness. And it usually is after a long dileberation. There are ways of council that isn't DF. I have made plenty of mistakes growing up and never had a worry about that. Now I have had friends who would sleep around and get disfellowshipped. If the sin wasn't public it the potential to be handled without a DF depending on what it is.

Edit: I have to get back to work now. Spent a bit too much time posting.

That's true, I agree. Disfellowshipment is not really common and most people who are Disfellowshiped tell on themselves and are shortly reinstated. The thing is, not only being able to talk to your family except for business matters and being shunned can have some mental consequences. We're social beings.
Culex
Member
(04-06-2017, 02:02 AM)
This does piss me off. I spent the 1st 16 years of my life as a JW, so I can totally relate to the persecution. I'm no longer in it, but damn, the misinformation is totally rampant, especially the whole blood transfusion topic.
Amir0x
demodded, not denutted
(04-06-2017, 02:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by EPaul

Yup, read an article on this on my local new site and the comments section blow up about the JW being a cult or not. Did some research, i find some of their doctrine strange( the 144,000 heaven limit, the government in heaven etc) and some bad ( blood transfusion and disfellowship). But i suppport the cause against being call extremist by russia of all places

They believe 144,000 make it into heaven (those who are celibate and adhere to the strictest form of JW worship), but the rest of those who have true faith will enter paradise after armaggedon.

Also they are no more a cult than Catholics. Nothing they believe makes them a cult. Misuse of the term is dangerous.
Last edited by Amir0x; 04-06-2017 at 02:05 AM.
Damage Inc
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(04-06-2017, 02:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Da-Kid

That's true, I agree. Disfellowshipment is not really common and most people who are Disfellowshiped tell on themselves and are shortly reinstated. The thing is, not only being able to talk to your family except for business matters and being shunned can have some mental consequences. We're social beings.

It's more than just business matters. My sister has been disfellowshipped for about 4 years now. She did some pretty heinous things, even people who aren't witnesses find her actions disturbing. She has severe health issues and got pregnant which could have been deadly to her. We were there, taking her to doctors appointments, at the birth, helping with the baby after, bringing the baby to our places etc. The shunning is more from just a social aspect.

There are limited reasons, but still important reasons to be there for them.
Last edited by Damage Inc; 04-06-2017 at 02:17 AM.
Damage Inc
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(04-06-2017, 02:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Amir0x

They believe 144,000 make it into heaven (those who are celibate and adhere to the strictest form of JW worship), but the rest of those who have true faith will enter paradise after armaggedon.

Nah. Celibacy has nothing to do with it. I grew up with an older lady who is still around that partakes as one of the 144000. She has had children and is currently married.

Funny enough the ones that identify as part of the 144000 are the most chill people I have met.

Their whole purpose is to help rule with earthly experience after all is said and done.

Sorry for the double post.
LookAtMeGo
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(04-06-2017, 02:12 AM)
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Most of the 144,000 are dead or old as fuck. But yeah my mom was brought into "the truth" by a married couple who were of the annointed.
Aaronology
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(04-06-2017, 02:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Amir0x

They believe 144,000 make it into heaven (those who are celibate and adhere to the strictest form of JW worship), but the rest of those who have true faith will enter paradise after armaggedon.

Also they are no more a cult than Catholics. Nothing they believe makes them a cult. Misuse of the term is dangerous.

Celibacy isn't a requirement for The Anointed. Or anyone, given they're married.

Originally Posted by LookAtMeGo

Most of the 144,000 are dead or old as fuck. But yeah my mom was brought into "the truth" by a married couple who were of the annointed.

Mine too. Both died years and years ago.
LookAtMeGo
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(04-06-2017, 02:17 AM)
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Same. They died when I was just a wee one.
evil solrac v3.0
(04-06-2017, 02:26 AM)
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Seems like depending on the region or country JWs are either very chill or very strict. As always it's up to the individual to interpret laws and rules of a religion. All the JWs that I have ever met ( with in every or two exceptions) were very chill or very known no people.
But anyone calling JWs extremists are insane. There is a huge difference between strict adherence and extremism.
Mael
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(04-06-2017, 02:29 AM)
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Next on Putin's list? Sad puppies.
looking at them make people sad and we can't have that clearly!

Like seriously JWs are pretty fucking low on the pole of stuffs I'm glad that exist but this is utter nonsense and anyone defending this is not right in the head.
Volimar
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(04-06-2017, 02:30 AM)
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Wow, I never met anyone claiming to be one of the 144,000. Seems a tad presumptuous doesn't it?
rpmurphy
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(04-06-2017, 02:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by AbortedWalrusFetus

They are pacifists, completely apolitical, non-materialistic, and virtue obsessed.

Sounds exactly like the sort of people we should label extremists.

Yep... Jesus today would still likely be considered a dangerous nutcase.
Volimar
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(04-06-2017, 02:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by rpmurphy

Yep... Jesus today would still likely be considered a dangerous nutcase.

You can sieze the means of production much easier when you can multiply loaves and fishes.
Nanashrew
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(04-06-2017, 02:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by evil solrac v3.0

Seems like depending on the region or country JWs are either very chill or very strict. As always it's up to the individual to interpret laws and rules of a religion. All the JWs that I have ever met ( with in every or two exceptions) were very chill or very known no people.
But anyone calling JWs extremists are insane. There is a huge difference between strict adherence and extremism.

Yeah. A guy a know who lived in Japan for awhile met some Jehovah's Witnesses while there. They helped him put up his Christmas lights. Though they're really not not supposed to do stuff like that because Christmas is not something that's celebrated among Jehovah Witnesses.

The real thing people have to remember is that people are flawed. While there have been some extreme cases that were brought up in this thread, yeah, most are incredibly chill and helpful. Regions and countries can also have different outlooks on how to do things. It's why there's always that constant talk about how man will always have trouble leading man.
Damage Inc
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(04-06-2017, 02:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Volimar

You can sieze the means of production much easier when you can multiply loaves and fishes.

If I could multiply fish and bread I would be flinging that stuff all over. All water would become wine lol.

I would turn into Oprah.
Last edited by Damage Inc; 04-06-2017 at 03:02 AM.
AzureRonin
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(04-06-2017, 03:05 AM)
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it's ridiculous that some people find bloodless surgery such a contentious issue. It makes way more sense to pursue bloodless surgery, no donations needed.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/blood...icine_surgery/
WillyFive
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(04-06-2017, 03:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by AzureRonin

it's ridiculous that some eople find bloodless surgery such a contentious issue. It makes way more sense to pursue bloodless surgery, no donations needed.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/blood...icine_surgery/

It's not viable for most situations, and puts children at unnecessary risk when safer and more effective transfusions are available and parents (or a group of elders sent by the organization) tell doctors to not use them. Although the VHS/DVD video distributed by the organization paints bloodless operations in a very positive light (as well as taking a healthy amount of credit for it's proliferation), it's not the whole story, and it promotes public opinion about Witnesses as being irresponsible and promoting bad medicine (to say the least).

This is not even mentioning the infamous magazine cover from the Watchtower showing children as martyrs for dying by choosing not to use blood.
Last edited by WillyFive; 04-06-2017 at 03:16 AM.
Damage Inc
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(04-06-2017, 03:19 AM)
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Here is a paragraph from the link below regarding transfusions.

In August 2012, the journal Archives of Internal Medicine published the results of a study of heart-surgery patients at one center during a period of 28 years. Jehovah’s Witnesses fared better than similarly-matched patients who received blood transfusions. The Witnesses had fewer in-hospital complications, better early survival rates, and similar 20-year survival rates when compared with patients who received transfusions.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witne...esult_index]=1
AzureRonin
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(04-06-2017, 03:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by WillyFive

It's not viable for most situations, and puts children at unnecessary risk when safer and more effective transfusions are available and parents (or a group of elders sent by the organization) tell doctors to not use them. Although the VHS/DVD video distributed by the organization paints bloodless operations in a very positive light (as well as taking a healthy amount of credit for it's proliferation), it's not the whole story, and it promotes public opinion about Witnesses as being irresponsible and promoting bad medicine (to say the least).

the link is from John Hopkins, not from the society.
sergioalb64
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(04-06-2017, 03:19 AM)
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My prayers to my Russian Brothers and Sisters in their time of need.

Me and my family sent letters to be part of the movement. Personally, while I retained hope, I knew most likely this would happen. My thinking is that the local Witnesses did, too, and I know that them, as I, are ready for whatever comes next.

For those here in GAF showing consideration or even support, thank you. For those with varying thoughts, I completely respect all opinions, ideas, etc. I have my beliefs and I'm happy, and I hope you are all happy, too, even if your beliefs are different or even none.
Damage Inc
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(04-06-2017, 03:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by sergioalb64

My prayers to my Russian Brothers and Sisters in their time of need.

Me and my family sent letters to be part of the movement. Personally, while I retained hope, I knew most likely this would happen. My thinking is that the local Witnesses did, too, and I know that them, as I, are ready for whatever comes next.

For those here in GAF showing consideration or even support, thank you. For those with varying thoughts, I completely respect all opinions, ideas, etc. I have my beliefs and I'm happy, and I hope you are all happy, too, even if your beliefs are different or even none.

Considering what is happening in South Korea also, Russia isn't surprising either given their history.
harSon
(04-06-2017, 03:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Amir0x

They believe 144,000 make it into heaven (those who are celibate and adhere to the strictest form of JW worship), but the rest of those who have true faith will enter paradise after armaggedon.

Also they are no more a cult than Catholics. Nothing they believe makes them a cult. Misuse of the term is dangerous.

My girlfriend is from a Jehovah's Witness family. There's A LOT of fucked up things in that religion, much more so than other religions.

- You're not allowed to associate yourselves with non Jehovah's Witness people, if at all possible. Basically, outside of any situations that make avoiding non-JW's an impossibility (work, school, etc) - you're not supposed to make a conscientious effort to befriend, associate or date non-JW's.

- They're REALLY big about public shaming. If you do something the church doesn't agree with, they will publicly air it - if not directly then heavily hinted at / implied - and you will be shunned by other JW's.

- If you break any rules, there's the possibility of being disfellowshipped. Meaning that you JW's are no longer supposed to interact with you. If your child is disfellowshipped for example, you're obligated to shun them. My girlfriend was kicked out of the house at 16, and sent to an Aunt's house after being disfellowshipped. And her parents didn't talk to her at all, and they still don't

- Physical abuse, and pedophilia are a HUGE problem with the JW church. So I suppose that's not so different from the Catholic church.

- They literally push for JW's not to pursue higher education, but instead, to pursue a higher education in the ways of the religion / church. Because what better education is there than God's teachings? It's by far the least educated religion I believe.

- The basis of the religion is literally isolating one's self from the world, which the church teaches is filled with 'worldly' things that will tempt you away from God's teachings. They discourage independent thinking in a BIG way.

- Opposite sexes are not allowed to be with one another without a chaperone, unless they are married.

- When a JW woman handles any responsibility that should be handled by a man, such as organizing groups for their preaching work, she needs to wear a head covering. They're do this in an act of submission, to show that they're not taking on duties reserved for men.

- You shouldn't accept a blood transfusion, even if death is a possibility. My girlfriend literally had a card on her, which she had no control over as a minor, saying not to give her a blood transfusion.
Soph
Member
(04-06-2017, 03:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by AzureRonin

it's ridiculous that some people find bloodless surgery such a contentious issue. It makes way more sense to pursue bloodless surgery, no donations needed.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/blood...icine_surgery/

Bloodless surgery is fine, they are making gains through adaption of bloodless surgery precisely due to JW being against blood transfusion.

There's a plethora of other situations where it's not about surgery though, for example getting into a traffic accident and losing a lot of blood. This blood you can't recycle through surgery as it's already gone, without additional blood from a donor the patient will die.
AzureRonin
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(04-06-2017, 03:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Soph

Bloodless surgery is fine, they are making gains through adaption of bloodless surgery precisely due to JW being against blood transfusion.

There's a plethora of other situations where it's not about surgery though, for example getting into a traffic accident and losing a lot of blood. This blood you can't recycle through surgery as it's already gone, without additional blood from a donor the patient will die.

perhaps, or perhaps they will die even with a transfusion. I think it's in everyone's best interest that medicine explore this area.
Volimar
Member
(04-06-2017, 03:31 AM)
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^Especially given blood shortages.

Originally Posted by harSon

stuff


That's what I mean about the different orthodoxies. Some places ignore a lot of that or pay it lip service at best. The blood transfusion thing is a big one though. My uncle got pig cartilage in his knee and they seemed to be okay with that so <shrug>.

Indoctrinating kids has always been shitty and a strike against most organized religions for me. Believe what you want, but society has a vested interest in you not being able to refuse life saving treatments to children.
Last edited by Volimar; 04-06-2017 at 03:34 AM.
WillyFive
Member
(04-06-2017, 03:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by sergioalb64

My prayers to my Russian Brothers and Sisters in their time of need.

Me and my family sent letters to be part of the movement. Personally, while I retained hope, I knew most likely this would happen. My thinking is that the local Witnesses did, too, and I know that them, as I, are ready for whatever comes next.

For those here in GAF showing consideration or even support, thank you. For those with varying thoughts, I completely respect all opinions, ideas, etc. I have my beliefs and I'm happy, and I hope you are all happy, too, even if your beliefs are different or even none.

I've been troubled by Watchtower's decision to begin the letter writing campaign. It goes against the rule to remain neutral in political matters. Actively promoting every congregation around the world to do this feels out of left field, probably to promote good feelings amongst Witnesses for helping each other out, despite doing this at any other time would have caused Elders to reprimand you. What do you feel about this?

Originally Posted by AzureRonin

the link is from John Hopkins, not from the society.

I know that, it's related to what I was referring to.

Originally Posted by AzureRonin

perhaps, or perhaps they will die even with a transfusion. I think it's in everyone's best interest that medicine explore this area.

Absolutely. But should the Watchtower punish their members for choosing not to take that chance?

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