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Bobby Roberts
Lore Expert
(04-21-2017, 03:28 PM)
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I swear there was a theory floating around a few years ago re: The way the Doctor tends to regenerate, according to the influences pressed upon in him in his last incarnation. These influences tend to come from his companions.

I think it was this, at Tor.com ?
Exterminieren
on the brink of disasrer
(04-21-2017, 03:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

I swear there was a theory floating around a few years ago re: The way the Doctor tends to regenerate, according to the influences pressed upon in him in his last incarnation. These influences tend to come from his companions.

I think it was this, at Tor.com ?

Russell T Davies put Rose's influence forward as an explicit reason why Tennant's Doctor was a dashing young man with an Estuary accent IIRC, and I've always been fond of the idea that the Twelvth Doctor is spiky and Scottish because he saw Amy seconds before the regeneration.
Ade
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(04-21-2017, 03:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Exterminieren

Russell T Davies put Rose's influence forward as an explicit reason why Tennant's Doctor was a dashing young man with an Estuary accent IIRC, and I've always been fond of the idea that the Twelvth Doctor is spiky and Scottish because he saw Amy seconds before the regeneration.

The 7th Doctor should've been hairy as hell, as the last thing he saw before regenerating was a ridiculous wig!
Boem
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(04-21-2017, 03:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

I swear there was a theory floating around a few years ago re: The way the Doctor tends to regenerate, according to the influences pressed upon in him in his last incarnation. These influences tend to come from his companions.

I think it was this, at Tor.com ?

Moffat and RTD both mentioned that theory a couple of times. It lines up with some of the Doctors, not all of them. There are similar theories going around saying that, for example, the nature of his death and his last adventure shape the new Doctor.

The only real truth in that doesn't lie in the 'lore' (as far as that exists in Who), but more that every Doctor and the tone of every era is a reflection of the times and the rest of the media landscape, and a reflection of what came before. Writers, even new ones coming in, expand on small ideas that worked, dismiss stuff that didn't or that have been mined completely.

If, say, Moffat would have continued the show in the 80s and written the next Doctor after McCoy, his first Doctor would have been very different than Matt Smith, who was (even though he was his own man), very much a reaction to Tennant. And Capaldi came from Smith - if Smith wasn't his predecessor I'm sure the tone and the way he played to role would have been very different.

TL;DR - it's a fun theory but more something that's applied after the fact. Not really an in-universe thing. Like most of these, it falls apart if you look too closely at it and try to apply it to every Doctor.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer though, if anyone loves mindlessly philosophizing over this show it's me.
xandaca
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(04-21-2017, 03:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spectromixer

So I guess Nerdist has a new rumored 13th Doctor -


Michaela Coel, probably my favorite of the potentials so far
Source

Christ no, she's ferociously annoying.
Spectromixer
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(04-21-2017, 03:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spectromixer

So I guess Nerdist has a new rumored 13th Doctor -


Michaela Coel, probably my favorite of the potentials so far
Source

Welp -

Already been denied by her on twitter
Bobby Roberts
Lore Expert
(04-21-2017, 03:53 PM)
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Also, we should check real quick:

Is unsourced/unverified rumors of an actor possibly being cast as Doctor Who really a spoiler?

I'm not sure that it is. It's more or less news. It doesn't have any bearing on the plot of the story itself, the casting of a new Doctor. Although the casting could hint at things that might be relevant to a plot in that Doctor's series, I don't know that people putting out rumors is, in and of itself a spoiler, or that anything's being spoiled by a casting announcement.

Just trying to cut down on the number of black bars, basically.

If nothing from the actual story or in-universe plot is being revealed by this, I'm not sure how it's a "spoiler" at all. We know the Doctor is coming back. It's not like with the Master casting, where we didn't know there was going to be a multi-master story, so Simm's rumored appearance was potentially spoilery due to his presence revealing a story beat. (and that's in the marketing and had a press release so it turns out that casting/knowledge aren't spoilers anyway).

This is maybe the only real given of this entire show's existence: The Doctor is going to regenerate into a different person. I'm not sure that rumors about who that person is are spoilers at all. Or that the eventual casting is a spoiler, either.

Like - it's out of fictional universe/in our real one news. You're going to see it.
Last edited by Bobby Roberts; 04-21-2017 at 03:55 PM.
KuwabaraTheMan
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(04-21-2017, 04:02 PM)
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I don't think any reports of "so and so is the next Doctor" are spoilers, unless they have some other element that would be more spoiler-y (like "and they'll be appearing in the final episode of this season" or something like that).
Boem
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(04-21-2017, 04:02 PM)
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I'm inclined to say it's fine to openly discuss it, but I don't really care about knowing who the next Doctor is going to be before it happens on screen. No matter who it is, it will be known before the episode airs.

I can see how people would want to avoid it at all costs, and I'm never bothered by putting up a couple of spoiler bars to accommodate them, but it gets tricky if you don't want to read that specific information while also wanting to participate in these kinds of online discussions.
ClivePwned
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(04-21-2017, 04:47 PM)
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if you don't want to talk about who's rumoured, or has been cast as the lead role in the show we're talking about, maybe best to avoid the thread. If you haven't seen the latest episode that has already aired, maybe avoid the discussion thread.

Maybe the thing to do is to get a mod to edit the thread title to add the word 'spoilers.'

or maybe not


you see


it's not all irritating

the next doctor will be played by a Lego
Boem
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(04-21-2017, 04:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by ClivePwned


the next doctor will be played by a Lego

I would be down for this.
MHWilliams
(04-21-2017, 05:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

Also, we should check real quick:

Is unsourced/unverified rumors of an actor possibly being cast as Doctor Who really a spoiler?

I'm not sure that it is. It's more or less news. It doesn't have any bearing on the plot of the story itself, the casting of a new Doctor. Although the casting could hint at things that might be relevant to a plot in that Doctor's series, I don't know that people putting out rumors is, in and of itself a spoiler, or that anything's being spoiled by a casting announcement.

Just trying to cut down on the number of black bars, basically.

If nothing from the actual story or in-universe plot is being revealed by this, I'm not sure how it's a "spoiler" at all. We know the Doctor is coming back. It's not like with the Master casting, where we didn't know there was going to be a multi-master story, so Simm's rumored appearance was potentially spoilery due to his presence revealing a story beat. (and that's in the marketing and had a press release so it turns out that casting/knowledge aren't spoilers anyway).

This is maybe the only real given of this entire show's existence: The Doctor is going to regenerate into a different person. I'm not sure that rumors about who that person is are spoilers at all. Or that the eventual casting is a spoiler, either.

Like - it's out of fictional universe/in our real one news. You're going to see it.

I'm of the mindset that, no, it's not a spoiler, but I'm fine with letting y'all bash your heads in with spoiler tags.
paradox121
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(04-21-2017, 07:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Exterminieren

Russell T Davies put Rose's influence forward as an explicit reason why Tennant's Doctor was a dashing young man with an Estuary accent IIRC, and I've always been fond of the idea that the Twelvth Doctor is spiky and Scottish because he saw Amy seconds before the regeneration.

I also love the 'theory' that 11 is young-looking because he was all alone when he regenerated and desperately needed someone to like him (like how baby animals look cute so that you don't eat them), and then 12 is old-looking because he trusted Clara and assumed she'd be cool with him being less attractive.
Platy
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(04-21-2017, 07:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spectromixer

So I guess Nerdist has a new rumored 13th Doctor -


Michaela Coel, probably my favorite of the potentials so far
Source

Too good to be true. I call it fake
Kevin
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(04-21-2017, 07:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Platy

Too good to be true. I call it fake

She already confirmed that she is NOT the next Doctor.

Reviews for the episode two are looking rather disappointing (spoilers):

https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2017/...-review-smile/

Where did all the well written episodes go?
Boem
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(04-21-2017, 07:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kevin

She already confirmed that she is NOT the next Doctor.

Reviews for the episode two are looking rather disappointing (spoilers):

https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2017/...-review-smile/

Where did all the well written episodes go?

To be fair, this is coming from the guy who wrote In the Forest of the Night. And it's only the second episode. And The Pilot was pretty good. And, skipping over the christmas special for a second (which I didn't like), before that we had Heaven Sent and Hell Bent, both of which are classics in my book. And some of the stuff coming up sounds really good. So I don't think it's time to panic just yet. Every single season has lesser episodes.
Last edited by Boem; 04-21-2017 at 07:46 PM.
Razmos
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(04-21-2017, 07:56 PM)
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The fact it has been written by the guy who did the beyond awful forest episode already has my expectations for this episode in the negatives.
GustyGardner
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(04-21-2017, 08:09 PM)
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While everything we've seen so far from this episode looks like a write off, I'm willing to give it a fair shake. That said, I'm much, much more interested in what's coming up. Everything from the fourth episode forward (except maybe the Ice Warriors ep) seems very refreshing so I kind of wish we could hurry along to those already!
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
(04-22-2017, 12:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Razmos

The fact it has been written by the guy who did the beyond awful forest episode already has my expectations for this episode in the negatives.

Oh dear. That's a bit concerning. That was one of the episodes you could tell was going to be garbage just from the "Next Time..." preview. Fresh starts and all that though.
Spectromixer
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(04-22-2017, 01:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kevin

She already confirmed that she is NOT the next Doctor.

Yeah, sadly
SomewhatGroovy
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(04-22-2017, 01:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by hamchan

During Q&A time when I went to the Doctor Who expo, someone asked Peter Capaldi if there were any fun stories he could tell about being on set.

His answer was that they don't really have fun on set, it's a pretty serious operation where they're all just doing their job. I thought it was kinda a depressing answer, especially when you look at the RTD era and how they all seemed to mess around a lot and be super close with each other.

This has always been my impression!

I've worked as an extra on set several times and there were atmospheres of pure play and others where it was dead serious and almost inhumane (Friday Night Lights was the worst experience)

When you look at any of the behind the scenes of Capaldi's run, it just looks dreadful with everyone standing there stoicly etc. Peter's demeanor in between takes and hesitancy to talk or joke too much gave me this very impression you described.
Barkley's Justice
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(04-22-2017, 08:48 AM)
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Just watched The Pilot.

Really hard to watch if I'm to be honest. Capaldi's great. But the scenario was really stupid. And the pacing of this show is still frustrating. I feel like everything ramped-up in speed & pacing in the Matt Smith era and it's never really let off.

I'd really love to see a slower, more serious take on The Doctor. It's so bombastic and "YEAAAA!" in-your-face with Moffat, to cartoonish effect...
APZonerunner
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(04-22-2017, 09:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Boem

To be fair, this is coming from the guy who wrote In the Forest of the Night.

Oh, fuck me. Why invite him back? This'd be like inviting the writer of Fear Her back. Which they did. The eps were rubbish. (Though to be fair, at least Fear Her and the subsequent two-parter had some nice character work)
Last edited by APZonerunner; 04-22-2017 at 10:28 AM.
JoeM86
(04-22-2017, 09:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Barkley's Justice

Just watched The Pilot.

Really hard to watch if I'm to be honest. Capaldi's great. But the scenario was really stupid. And the pacing of this show is still frustrating. I feel like everything ramped-up in speed & pacing in the Matt Smith era and it's never really let off.

I'd really love to see a slower, more serious take on The Doctor. It's so bombastic and "YEAAAA!" in-your-face with Moffat, to cartoonish effect...

Problem is that the slower more serious take is often met with "mehs" from the younger audience, which is a key demographic
tomtom94
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(04-22-2017, 10:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Barkley's Justice

Just watched The Pilot.

Really hard to watch if I'm to be honest. Capaldi's great. But the scenario was really stupid. And the pacing of this show is still frustrating. I feel like everything ramped-up in speed & pacing in the Matt Smith era and it's never really let off.

I'd really love to see a slower, more serious take on The Doctor. It's so bombastic and "YEAAAA!" in-your-face with Moffat, to cartoonish effect...

While I'm not saying I disagree with you, have you watched the average RTD episode lately? I think nostalgia has put some blinders on how cartoony and fast-paced things were during that era (albeit in different ways from it is now). Heck, just re-watch Rose.

And, as JoeM86 says, it doesn't tend to go over that well. Heaven Sent is one of the fanbase's favourite episodes ever but it got a lower audience appreciation than both the episodes before and after. Same with Midnight and Listen.

EDIT: Listen got a lower Appreciation Index number (82) than In The Forest of the Night (83).
Last edited by tomtom94; 04-22-2017 at 10:41 AM.
JoeM86
(04-22-2017, 10:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by tomtom94

While I'm not saying I disagree with you, have you watched the average RTD episode lately? I think nostalgia has put some blinders on how cartoony and fast-paced things were during that era (albeit in different ways from it is now). Heck, just re-watch Rose.

And, as JoeM86 says, it doesn't tend to go over that well. Heaven Sent is one of the fanbase's favourite episodes ever but it got a lower audience appreciation than both the episodes before and after. Same with Midnight and Listen.

Yeah. Listen might just be my favourite episode. It just worked well on so many levels but I completely get why the more casual audience may not have liked it.

Moffat's stuff is far more subdued and complicated than the RTD era, which could easily be one of the major factors that the show isn't what it was in terms of popularity.
M.Bluth
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(04-22-2017, 10:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by APZonerunner

Oh, fuck me. Why invite him back? This'd be like inviting the writer of Fear Her back. Which they did. The eps were rubbish. (Though to be fair, at least Fear Her and the subsequent two-parter had some nice character work)

Moffat going out of his way to prove his "Guys! In the Forest of the Night is really better than you give it credit" position, I suppose.
Unsurprisingly, it seems it really didn't pay off. You'd think he'd do his best to save it with rewrites.

Ah, we'll see tonight...
Santiako
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(04-22-2017, 11:45 AM)
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Was Forest of the Night the episode where Clara decided that letting all the kids die was better than having them survive and miss their parents?
Kinsei
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(04-22-2017, 12:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by tomtom94

While I'm not saying I disagree with you, have you watched the average RTD episode lately? I think nostalgia has put some blinders on how cartoony and fast-paced things were during that era (albeit in different ways from it is now). Heck, just re-watch Rose.

And, as JoeM86 says, it doesn't tend to go over that well. Heaven Sent is one of the fanbase's favourite episodes ever but it got a lower audience appreciation than both the episodes before and after. Same with Midnight and Listen.

EDIT: Listen got a lower Appreciation Index number (82) than In The Forest of the Night (83).

How is that even possible? I say this as someone who is not a huge fan of Listen.
Last edited by Kinsei; 04-22-2017 at 12:17 PM.
Hot Coldman
Sonic's brother and sister are NOT canon
(04-22-2017, 12:14 PM)
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Lower audience appreciation numbers probably just mean it made a bunch of kids cry. which is good
SlipperyFishes
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(04-22-2017, 12:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Santiako

Was Forest of the Night the episode where Clara decided that letting all the kids die was better than having them survive and miss their parents?

Yes. Lol better to die than be the last of your kind
hamchan
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(04-22-2017, 12:34 PM)
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Totally expecting a missing girl to pop out of an emoji robot for no reason at the end of the episode for some of that Cottrell-Bryce feel good magic.
paragonpro
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(04-22-2017, 12:51 PM)
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I was a big fan of this first episode, far better imo than the christmas special, it had a great style to it.
Joqu
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(04-22-2017, 12:55 PM)
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Seriously, forest of the night is complete and utter crap. Those appreciation numbers make zero sense.

And yeah, I can't say I'm stoked about its writer returning for another episode. Ugh.
DeathyBoy
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(04-22-2017, 12:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by SomewhatGroovy

This has always been my impression!

I've worked as an extra on set several times and there were atmospheres of pure play and others where it was dead serious and almost inhumane (Friday Night Lights was the worst experience)

When you look at any of the behind the scenes of Capaldi's run, it just looks dreadful with everyone standing there stoicly etc. Peter's demeanor in between takes and hesitancy to talk or joke too much gave me this very impression you described.

I think the big difference is RTD had a BBC exec and a producer as people he genuinely was friends with, and post CE a bunch of actors who got on absurdly well. That was a lightning in a bottle era. Like the reason RTD could do shit like every companion coming back was that they loved the show and working on the show. And he had people who'd fight for more money.

Moff essentially had little of that. He has that on Sherlock, which bar Martin Freeman breakdown is a familial atmosphere where money is thrown at it.
Santiako
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(04-22-2017, 01:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by SlipperyFishes

Yes. Lol better to die than be the last of your kind

That was so stupidly out of character for Clara. Easily the worst episode of the Moffat era.
Hot Coldman
Sonic's brother and sister are NOT canon
(04-22-2017, 01:04 PM)
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That episode had the same feeling as Nightmare in Silver, where it was totally a first-draft and barely even that. Hopefully he can make up for it here.
LordRaptor
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(04-22-2017, 01:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by tomtom94

While I'm not saying I disagree with you, have you watched the average RTD episode lately? I think nostalgia has put some blinders on how cartoony and fast-paced things were during that era (albeit in different ways from it is now). Heck, just re-watch Rose.

IIRC RTD was in-fighting with a producer over tone during the start of the reboot, because the producer had no faith in it being a hit and was trying to kiddify it, which is why you have things like looney tunes rubber face mickey falling in a bin, not invasion of the body snatchers mickey was secretly replaced and is trying to kill you
WadiumArcadium
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(04-22-2017, 02:08 PM)
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I've been away all week so I only got chance to watch 'The Pilot' this morning. I liked it a lot. Really liked Pearl as Bill and her chemistry with Capadli was great. Hopefully this is a good send-off series for him.
JonathanEx
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(04-22-2017, 02:29 PM)
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And as another 'Peter Capaldi is lovely' anecdote, a friend is at the March for Science in London today and they bumped in to Capaldi who is there to support it. A good Doctor indeed.
APZonerunner
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(04-22-2017, 02:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by LordRaptor

IIRC RTD was in-fighting with a producer over tone during the start of the reboot, because the producer had no faith in it being a hit and was trying to kiddify it, which is why you have things like looney tunes rubber face mickey falling in a bin, not invasion of the body snatchers mickey was secretly replaced and is trying to kill you

This wasn't a producer, but the director of the first three episodes filmed (Rose, Aliens of London, World War Three) rather misunderstood the tone of the show, I think. This director supposedly had enormously volatile clashes with Eccleston that contributed to his leaving too. But it's interesting if you read the original scripts for those episodes, the stuff like (for instance) Mickey being swallowed whole by the bin was scripted to be a bit more straight - IE the bin burping absolutely wasn't in the script.

That guy was never invited back - the only series 1 director not to return at some point, IIRC.
tomtom94
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(04-22-2017, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinsei

How is that even possible? I say this as someone who is not a huge fan of Listen.

People don't like things that a new and different, basically. It's why the only two New Who episodes in history to go below 80 were Love and Monsters and Sleep No More, and why Time Heist is one of the best rated episodes of season 8...
Solid Sora
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(04-22-2017, 04:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by tomtom94

People don't like things that a new and different, basically. It's why the only two New Who episodes in history to go below 80 were Love and Monsters and Sleep No More, and why Time Heist is one of the best rated episodes of season 8...

Speaking of that, what's the general conscious about Love and Monsters now days? I remember people always citing it as one of the worst NuWho episodes, but I have always loved it. Thought it had some of the smartest writing in the series, ending excluded.
Ambient80
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(04-22-2017, 04:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Boem

I would be down for this.

An entire season of Lego Doctor Who like the Lego movies? God yes.
tomtom94
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(04-22-2017, 04:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Solid Sora

Speaking of that, what's the general conscious about Love and Monsters now days? I remember people always citing it as one of the worst NuWho episodes, but I have always loved it. Thought it had some of the smartest writing in the series, ending excluded.

If you like the whole "what happens to the people left behind" angle, you'll enjoy it. If you want your Doctor Who to be more sci-fi, you'll hate it. I personally think the first two-thirds are excellent which makes the awful last third so depressing, but I wouldn't put it even close to a bottom 5 episodes to date just for trying something different (and being a fan of said angle)
Slowdive
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(04-22-2017, 05:12 PM)
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Review of Smile from Mashable. According to them it's one of the best episodes of new Who. We'll see.

Also here's David Bradley pretty much confirming he's in the Christmas special: https://twitter.com/GirlyLetters/sta...770437/video/1
Kuraudo
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(04-22-2017, 06:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Solid Sora

Speaking of that, what's the general conscious about Love and Monsters now days? I remember people always citing it as one of the worst NuWho episodes, but I have always loved it. Thought it had some of the smartest writing in the series, ending excluded.

Pavement slab blowjob remains the most terrifying thing to have ever graced British TV.
N7Commander95
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(04-22-2017, 06:45 PM)
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Retro Poster by Stuart Manning

Love the style of it

Chille
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(04-22-2017, 07:28 PM)
Smile everyone, doctor who is on now
UpDownLeftRight
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(04-22-2017, 07:35 PM)
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Since a few people mentioned the 13th doctor, has anyone considered the possibility of ever reusing a previous doctor? since we know John is going to be back as the master a timelord regenerating into a previous form is about to be cannon right? kind of opens a door.

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